New S40/V50

benjamins · May 2004

"I also suspect progressive-rate spring doesn't ride as well as linear-rate spring. The idea of progressive-rate is when a flat-riding sport spring is too firm for comfort, they change the first-inch(or so) compression to soft just to keep the superficial harshness away. But a bad result is when more people/cargo are loaded, the ride height drops immediately compare to a linear-rate spring w/ the same average firmness. That ruins the ride comfort 'cause the remaining spring travel is lessened. "

I agree. Volvo tried progressive-rate springs and then put Nivomats on the back of the cars in the 760s. The early 760s suffered from feeling too soft on humps yet too stiff at the same time. But too stiff when it should be compliant and too soft where it should be controlled. The IRS helped the 760, but still the 88 and later 760s had this characteristic. The s70's/v70 has abrupt rebound, at any tuning it is pronounced. The s70s with 17 inch tires are quite uncomfortable and unsettled. Nice on smooth roads, falls apart on poor roads. 960s, though too soft in springing and too much vertical motion, rode better. More fluid. The funny thing with the s70 is that with Bilsteins, the abruptness rarely reveals itself. The ride is then kind of rigid, but at least controlled. More comfortable compromise.

Saab has gone to tuning bushings to soft vertical and firm horizontal with mixed results. There's still some degree of progressive spring rates for the 9-3. Ride suffers. Volvo thankfully has slowed the rebound but still seems to be dealing with progressive rates but with less of a range. Seems like they also payed close attention to bushings and connections, but ride can seem "rubbery" at times.

creakid1 · May 2004

"The early 760s suffered from feeling too soft on humps yet too stiff at the same time. But too stiff when it should be compliant and too soft where it should be controlled."

Right on! I was wondering what the hell happened to the $25k we spent on the '86 760 Turbo? I couldn't believe the ride. It still rode uncomfortably over bumps when more people/cargo was added, or travel at higher speed. While I was whining that my parents should have invested in a 300E instead, people think I'm crazy. So I went to the junk yard, got a set of 740 rear springs & replace all shocks w/ Gabriel GasRyder. The ride became not as ridiculous, but still uncomfortable. & I'm pretty sure the already-relatively-long spring's progressive-rate might be the only culprit.

"The IRS helped the 760, but still the 88 and later 760s had this characteristic."

CAR pointed out that the '88 760 sedan w/ IRS rode less comfortably than the wagon w/ solid rear axle.

"There's still some degree of progressive spring rates for the 9-3. Ride suffers."

Right before choosing the '86 760 Turbo, we test drove the Saab 9000 turbo. The only bump we encountered was a one-time horizontal dip, & the car moved quickly down & up w/o much absorption although the spring travel didn't get used up. But this limited data was enough to get me suspicious that I asked my dorm mates to let me carpool in their 900 turbo for a long trip but got refused 'cause they don't want to squeeze more than 4 people in the car. So later we test drove the 740 turbo but the stubborn old-man salesman didn't bother to let us test on bumpy roads & only persuaded my parents that Mercedes is too expensive. So we ended up buying a 760 turbo from another dealer for under $23k plus tax. It's the most expensive & pointless car we've ever purchased.

& then when I discovered that my Indiana aunt's 240 never rode uncomfortably, I was wondering why.

Anyway, today's new S40 w/o sport suspension is tuned pretty comfortably although not so deep.

creakid1 · May 2004

I just test drove the non-sport 325i again today.

Especially w/ the 6-way-only std manual seat, the driving position is stressful! Even w/ the seat raised until I ran out of headroom under the moonroof & had to recline to an awkward arm-stretching driving position, the non-adjustable thigh angle just couldn't support my thighs.

Like the Mazda3, as I provoked the abrupt lane change at low speed, the rear end twitched out some, even w/ the presence of DSC. The S40 sure feels more secure as far as having the tail to stay put, w/ or w/o the sport suspension.

Despite less suspension travel than the non-sport 325i, the non-sport T5 has a calmer slower-motion ride over bumps. The Beemer moves quickly back to the baseline after each bump in no time to get ready for the next one. So unless the bumps are pretty deep, the Volvo has a more relaxing ride.

So, more relaxing driving position, more relaxing handling to toss around along w/ more relaxing ride, the Volvo is more enjoyable, & therefore wins, in a way.

The Focus platform kept spawning as if it's becoming the best selling design in the world. Lately, besides the long-wheel-base future Mondeo & Galaxy minivan from Europe, there are the C50 convertible & C30 3-dr hatch.

volvomax · May 2004

Actually it will be called the C70, not C50.
Launch is in one year.
C30 still on the drawing board.

windsor · May 2004

I just leased the brand new S40 2.4i (2004.5). I got it with the premium package, as well as the climate package. I put 3600 down, and my payments are 278 a month. The dealership actually called me back today and tried to say that my payments would go up 10 bucks a month because the bank took my esperian score as opposed to my equifax score, which dropped me a tier (B.S. ??? I don't know). Anyhow, I think I got a good deal, no?

Matt

creakid1 · May 2004

What do you think? Is the lease posted in #998 a good deal? Compare to:
cotmc May 19, 2004 11:10pm

Anyway, the 325i auto we re-ordered w/ metallic($475), memory power seats w/ mirror auto-tilt-down on reverse($995), sport seats w/ manual cushion extension($550), power 4-way lumbar($450) & arriving around June 18 has MSRP about $32600. I really think only the last 2 options are necessary, & would rather swap metallic paint & motorized seats w/ the grey leather($1450) instead of the burning vinyl, which only comes in black or sand -- yuck!

It was based on the good lease program advertised prior to April 30, so ours was $3228 drive off w/ 35 more payments of $299/mo@10k-mi/yr.

windsor · May 2004

A crazy twist...I was surprised when power volvo called me back, saying that they couldn't get my loan approved at the rate first quoted, and that my lease payments would go up ten dollars. I was surprised as I had ran my own credit on myfico only two weeks prior. Anyhow, the dealership said my score through experian was 645, so I ran it on myfico, and it is actually 693, just as I expected. I'm not sure what the dealership is trying to do, but if anybody has advice, please let me know.

jrct9454 · May 2004

...find another dealer.

ateixeira · May 2004

Bummer, no V50 AWD manual tranny?

-juice

volvomax · May 2004

fraid its true, to manual AWD

stickguy · May 2004

That would certainly qualify as a niche car, but is kinda indicative of where Volvo is positioning it.

cotmc · May 2004

Regarding whether this is a good lease deal, other details would need to be provided. Does the "$3600 down" include all fees (including tax and license)? Or is this including only the Cap Reduction and Acquisition fees? Is this a 36-month lease? How many miles/year are allocated?

I would try to verify why the bank claims your credit score is 645 instead of 693. If you don't get a good answer, then try another Volvo dealer.

cotmc · May 2004

"I really think only the last 2 options are necessary, & would rather swap metallic paint & motorized seats w/ the grey leather($1450) instead of the burning vinyl, which only comes in black or sand..."

You definitely have a good lease deal, but I'm sorry to say that I agree with you 100% on your options list. I would also trade the power seats and metallic paint for leather seats. (Personally, I like the "natural brown" leather with the black dash, trim and carpet.)

Then again, I live in sunny, hot Arizona. If I lived in Boston or Seattle, I would probably be content with black vinyl sport seats. But in these parts, saving $1400 on vinyl seats is asking for trouble! I wish BMW offered some sort of zero-cost cloth seat alternative, such as the T-Tec seats available in the S40. Hey, even the cloth seats in the base Volvo XC90 are fantastic!

Since this is an S40 forum, I should probably add that I really appreciate the content and pricing of the S40's Premium Package. With the 2.4i, the Premium Package adds leather seats (which seemed to have a little more padding than the base seats), moonroof, power driver seat, dual electronic climate control, and upgraded trim, for about $2300. With the 325i, you're looking at about $2400 for only leather and moonroof.

I don't recall if the S40 Prem Pkg has "leather seats" or "leather seating surfaces"? If the latter, that might help to explain the low price, but I still think it is a great deal!

windsor · May 2004

The total amount due at lease signing was actually 4100, so I put 3600 cash down, as well as a trade-in. This 4100 covered the cap cost reduction, 1st mo payment, security deposit, initial registration fees, and sales or use tax.

About the credit issue, the sales manager is saying that while my credit score was pretty high, Chase has higher standards, and that they used my transunion score (688), which for them is a tier 3. I am nearly positive this is B.S., but what can I do now, ya know. Plus, even though I got a little screwed on the financing, I think I compensated it by negotiating a 24,226 gross capitalized cost (agreed upon price of 23,386 + 795 for acquisition fee).

I welcome any advice guys.

cotmc · May 2004

I understand that Volvo is providing a significant lease incentive that allows dealers to reduce the gross capitalized cost. I have reason to guess this is a $3000 incentive, but I don't know for certain. Did your salesman mention anything regarding this incentive?

As an example, my 2.4i with Premium Package (no metallic paint) had a gross capitalized cost slightly below $23.5K. I notice your car also adds the climate package, which has an MSRP of $625. Does your car include metallic paint, or any other options? If not, then I don't think you are necessarily getting an outstanding price at $24,226. I bet other dealers would match or beat it.

lev_berkovich · May 2004

Volvo just has advertised the new lease for $229 a month and $3569 due on signing.

See details at
http://apps.volvocars.us/enewsletter/02/02-h-ans40-ans40.htm

creakid1 · May 2004

"But in these parts, saving $1400 on vinyl seats is asking for trouble! I wish BMW offered some sort of zero-cost cloth seat alternative, such as the T-Tec seats available in the S40."

BMW did back in '02 in Canada, & the 3-series' cloth interior comes in either black or grey, which almost made me wanted to go get a Canadian spec. But imports sold in Canada cannot be exported to the U.S. w/o heavy tariff!

"Hey, even the cloth seats in the base Volvo XC90 are fantastic!"

I remember the '93 940's base cloth seat fits me perfectly, even the fixed headrest matched my 5'11" frame. These days, people are getting taller, so Volvo's fixed headrests are designed for those somewhere over 6'.

cotmc · May 2004

I believe this is the same lease deal Volvo has been advertising on their U.S. website for a couple of weeks now, which I referenced in #981.

Note this particular promotion, through Volvo Car Finance North America, applies only to a base 2.4i without any options (other than metallic paint). Unfortunately, the money factor changes significantly if you add options. Because I wanted the Premium Package, my salesman had to go through a bank, instead of with Volvo Finance, to get me a similarly competitive lease deal on an S40 with that package. (As mentioned earlier, there is some incentive Cap Reduction money if you lease through a bank, but not if you lease with Volvo Finance. Strange!)

jchan2 · May 2004

would be a better alternative than the vinyl, that's for sure. At least it won't fry your butt in the summer if you live in the southwest.

volvomax · May 2004

If the lease thru Chase is a tier one than the Isaac score needs to be over 700. Also, many lenders prefer Experian in the Southwest/West Coast markets.

The advertised Volvo lease does not include tax or license fees.

Here in the Southwest 98% of the cars we sell have leather. RARELY do we get a customer that wants cloth instead.

windsor · May 2004

Yea, but the volvo dealership is telling me chase has me as a tier 3,whith the following credit scores

experian 693
equifax 667
transunion 688

I have a tough time believing I am tier 3, is there any chance the dealership is lying about my credit? Would it benefit them to do so?

Matt

windsor · May 2004

Yes, after the whole deal was done, my dealer is saying that their WAS a 3000 dollar incentive, but that their is no longer an incentive. I guess I'm stuck. What sucks is when the dealership first told me us bank declined me, and that I'd have to go through chase, I then had an option to give back the Volvo, and I think I should have. Now I've been on the dealership asking why they said my credit scores were lower than they really are, and why they didn't try to finance through Volvo, which supposedly has the best deal going right now.

Matt

cotmc · May 2004

No doubt leather is nearly universally preferred over cloth. Sometimes, however, a customer stretches his automotive budget to get into a car for its better performance and quality, with a financial need or desire to compromise on its costly options. Creakid1's 325i lease is a good example.

Compared to BMW, Volvo should be commended for offering quality cloth seats as the "base" for some of their vehicles, as opposed to vinyl, or in BMW speak, "leatherette". I was amazed at how many pre-owned 325i cars at the BMW dealer in lower Scottsdale were equipped with vinyl seats! I guess there are plenty of BMW 325i customers here in Arizona(!) who chose to save $1450, even though a hot vinyl seating surface was their only alternative to leather.

For the XC90, I still believe the cloth seats are just as nice as its leather seats. Having said that, I would still take the durability and cleanup capability of leather. As for the S40, there is a another Volvo dealer here in AZ who seems to be ordering all S40's with the T-Tec seats. Obviously, I disagree, but that dealer sure seems to like the T-Tec seats more than the leather.

windsor · May 2004

You said, "If not, then I don't think you are necessarily getting an outstanding price at $24,226. I bet other dealers would match or beat it. "

But here on edmunds, the tmv for the car I got (2.4i, with prem + clim packages) is around 27,000; why is it that you say I didn't get a good deal at 24,226? Just curious.

The main thing I was worried about was if the dealership was up to some funny business arranging financing through the bank. My interest rate is at 5.78 because they say I'm tier 3 with a middle credit score of 685. Also, I'm wondering why they didn't go through Volvo...my dealership says its because I'm a first time buyer (even though I financed a car 6 years ago with a co-signer, and never had a late payment).

Again, besides the oddity of the finance deal, I think the price for the car was pretty good...no?

Still not at ease with his new lease deal...Matt

josh684 · May 2004

How? Invoice is $26,300 and MSRP is $28,100. Is this cause of the 3,000 if you lease?

cotmc · May 2004

If you read #1008 carefully, I never said you didn't get a good deal. I just noted that it wasn't "outstanding", as my lease deal had a cap cost under $23.5K, with the same equipment you listed, except that mine did not include the $600 climate package. I didn't mean to cause any concern after the fact. At the time, I thought you were still re-negotiating due to the $10 monthly lease payment increase. Now that this is a done deal, you should enjoy your car. We should both be thankful that Volvo offered the cap reduction incentive to allow our capitalized cost to be so far below dealer invoice.

Probably the real reason your dealer didn't go through Volvo for the lease is due to the cap reduction incentive, which I explained at the end of post #1012. Without that incentive, there would be no way of getting your capitalized cost so far below invoice.

creakid1 · May 2004

"As for the S40, there is a another Volvo dealer here in AZ who seems to be ordering all S40's with the T-Tec seats."

Non-turbo S40 requires the uncomfortable sport suspension for the "T-Tec". You sure it's not the std "plush" cloth?

Also the base S40 comes w/ std silver plastic trim, not aluminum.

& there's nothing wrong w/ them.

cotmc · May 2004

"Non-turbo S40 requires the uncomfortable sport suspension for the "T-Tec"."

Actually, that is not true. I think the early literature stated that the "T-Tec" seats were an upgrade, but all the S40's without leather, even the base 2.4i models, seem to include the T-Tec seats at no cost -- Sport or non-Sport. I have looked at over a dozen S40s at two Volvo dealers, and I never found a single model with the "plush" cloth seats. The window sticker states that the T-Tec Seating Surfaces are a "Special All-New S40 2.4i Introductory Offer".

tranmi · May 2004

The "T-Tec" seats are the standard equipment for the S40 2.4i now. You can not order the "Eden" cloth anymore.

volvomax · May 2004

Actually you never could order the cloth.
T-tec was made standard before we got the first car.

volvomax · May 2004

you are a tier 3 w/ Chase
Tier 1 730+
Tier 2 700-729
Tier 3 680-699

Note: the score is just a guideline, you still must meet other acceptance criteria. But, if your out of the scoring range the other criteria is moot.

windsor · May 2004

Yea, I've finally put all of my worries to rest. I have talked to Chase, and through persistance, finally got somebody to discuss my personal credit scores, and how they would likely effect the rate I would/did get on a lease. I am tier 3, this just seemed low to me.

Yes, you guys are right, their is a 3000 dollar incentive coming from Volvo, but the dealership cannot use volvo finance and get the 3000 gross cap reduction...so this is why they stuck with Chase.

It seems nearly all 2.4i's in this region (southern california) come with at least the premium package, and many also with the climate package. With both, it seems to be a consensus that a gross cap cost at $24,000 is a pretty good deal, so I'm done. Now I've just got to decide if I'll spring for some of the great accesories that have been made for the S40. I've gotta wonder if I'll want to buy this car at the end of the lease, I'd hate to buy a bunch of accessories, and then just give the car back. Well see. These S40's age pretty well, right?

tranmi · May 2004

The price list just came out, here is the link:

http://www.flyvolvo.com/S40MY05.pdf

creakid1 · May 2004

Does the '05's auto climate control have the auto recirculate feature as "falsely advertised" in the '04.5 brochure pictures? According to the Volvo customer assistance, the "A" feature on the recirculate button should also come w/ the charcoal filter.

Now the memory feature can be added on the power driver seat for $150. How about the multiple adjustments for the passenger seat, either manual or power?

tranmi · May 2004

This price and options list are for the OSD only.

Volvo used to have the power seat option for driver's and passenger side for the 2.4i for $900 and the power passenger side for the T5 for $450. For some reasons they took them off for the 2005.

volvomax · May 2004

Where did you see those options???

The 2.4i has never had a power passenger seat option.
The T5 pass seat is part of the Premium pkg.

creakid,
the picture shows the S40 w/ the IAQS system.
all Volvo's have the pollen/dust filter.
IAQS is a sensor that detects carbon monoxide or other toxic gasses and automatically closes the outside air intakes. IAQS will not be available on the 2005 S40's

cotmc · May 2004

Even without a height adjustment on the passenger seat within the 2.4i model, there seems to be plenty of space underneath for rear passenger foot room. Within my S40, I could sit in the rear seat wearing hiking boots and easily slide them under the front passenger seat.

creakid1 · May 2004

I always look for cars w/ high chairs & perhaps also avoid the moonroof so you never have to go for the idiotic clumsy SUVs. My parents' 1st car was an air-cooled Super Beetle, & I always remember how I never had to stretch my legs out due to the long distance between my knees & the floor.

The MDX doesn't even have a high chair for the 2nd row seating!

mgpark103 · May 2004

My salesperson tried Volvo Finance first but they came in about $45/mo higher - ended up with USBank - and a $3,000 cap cost reduction lease incentive. I'm pretty sure the $3k incentive is good through the end of May at least.

midnightblack · June 2004

You can now build and price the S40 at the Volvo Canada website.

2.4i - $29,995
T5 - $34,995
T5 AWD - $37,495

Not bad starting prices!

stickguy · June 2004

Volvomax: when are you expecting the manuals to arrive (and I guess by extension the 2005s)?

volvomax · June 2004

We are expecting the first manual S40's in September. 2005 S40 auto's in August.

Volvo says the V50 AWD manual WILL be available in the US, but probably not till after the first of the year.

carman123 · June 2004

July issue of Road & Track has a road test of the 6 speed T5 FWD. They gave a favorable impression of the car except for a poor shift linkage between 4th and 5th gear. However, I am amazed that they "strongly recommended" the sport package. They made no comment of the stiff ride that a lot of us have noted when compared to the base suspension. I wonder if they drove it on a smooth test track or in the real world with imperfect roads.

avolvofan · June 2004

carman123, while the S40 Sport package is a bit firmer in its ride, I personally do not find it objectionable. I guess I prefer the better handling response from the re-valved shocks and the larger anti-sway bars. I have test driven an S40 with Sport package over a range of "real world" road surfaces and conditions (including concrete expansion joints), and where other cars driven over the same surfaces were bucking about like a washing machine on spin dry cycle, the S40 was very composed.

creakid1 · June 2004

'cause, especially during the 20th century, almost every Japanese car(at least the FWD ones) suck when comes to ride comfort on rough roads.

leeandgina · June 2004

I was just curious about the range of finance deals mentioned here, esp with people with good credit getting poor deals from Volvo finance. My wife and I have a few issues in recent times so our score was not good (575). However, our local Volvo dealer (Rahal) got us 2.9% APR over 5 years on a new S40 2.4i thru Volvo finance with just 1500 down (and they paid our last 3 lease payments on our current car too). We were very happy but is this an unusual deal?

Kirstie_H · June 2004

Welcome to Town Hall! Well, you might check on our Smart Shopper board - that's where the finance & lease discussions are located. Sounds like a great deal to me, and you should patronize that dealership again for getting such a great deal with a less than perfect credit rating! But you might get more feedback from those with expertise on the other board.

We get lots of folks who are more than happy to report their negative experiences with dealers, so a positive story would certainly be welcome.

saedave · June 2004

I sat in two different S40s to get an idea how the V50 would be a few days ago. The leather seat was so bad I could not believe I was sitting in a Volvo! The last seat that I found that bad was in the first Cadillac Catera...since changed. I hope this is fixed eventually, preferably for the V50.

Interior quality is worse than the cheapest Ford Focus, with the cup holder "fingers" looking like 90 days to failure. The leather quality looks like the exterior of a bargain suitcase. That is shame for a car with such good styling.

cotmc · June 2004

I guess it depends on one's body proportions and what type of seats one is accustomed to. I personally prefer the leather seats in our new S40 to the seats in my wife's Lexus RX330. As a reference, I am about 6 feet tall, and I weigh just under 200 pounds.

For the S40, both my wife and I think that the leather upholstery provides a little more cushioning than the T-Tec seats, but they are not definitely not the plushy seats often found in the Japanese and American luxury vehicles. These S40 leather seats are similar in size and firmness to the seats often found in smaller BMW and Mercedes vehicles. I am also very impressed with the lateral and lumbar support they provide.

saedave · June 2004

I am the same size and weight, but advancing years have eliminated my padding in what appears to be a crucial area. By contrast, I am very comfortable in both the 05 Subaru Legacy GT and the 05 LL Bean Outback with leather. The S40 seat seems much narrower than even the sport seat in the GT.

Perhaps the T-Tec seats would be ok; I will try them to see if a local dealer ever has such a vehicle in stock.

New S40/V50

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