New S40/V50

Kirstie_H · January 2004

Excellent photos! Thanks for sharing.

qbrozen · January 2004

why pay more $$$?

gee... I don't know. Why pay more for a Lexus over a Toyota? Why pay more for an Acura over a Honda? Why pay more for a Jaguar over a Ford?

I'm going to steal a bit from someone else here on Edmunds and paraphrase a bit: if you don't see the point in spending more to get more, then why aren't you driving a Hyundai?

r34 · January 2004

S40 T5 is more powerful than 9-3 Arc/Aero but 9-2X Aero is more powerful and has AWD.

9-2X will be made in Japan, which is likely to be more reliable.

S40 and 9-3 are more Swedish and "original".

I think S40 has a more upscale/"normal" interor (except the leather seats) than 9-3 but the Swedan 9-3 seems to have better reliability records than Belgian S40 (Is it really a Mitsubishi ?). For FWD, I think 9-3 is a better choice because its price will be closed to S40 after incentives.

Which one will you choose ?

(Maybe I should include A3 and BMW 1 series but there is not much info for the US version..)

qbrozen · January 2004

i used to be able to say the choice was easy because Saabs have the resale value of used butter, but since the resale on my S70 has tanked, its just not so cut and dry anymore. But, without really looking, I would think a Saab still has worse resale. Just maybe not as big of a difference as it used to be.

the 92x aero and volvo t5 AWD is too close to call. They are going to be competitors, that's for sure. I think the saab may be a bit cheaper, but that has yet to be determined. we'll see. The saab has a few more ponies, but that means nothing in real-world performance. The extra cog in the Volvo's 6-speed could easily make up for that. Plus the extra displacement of the volvo and lighter turbo will probably mean a flatter torque curve. The Saab may be lighter. So, again, this is going to be close.

kens · January 2004

I recently saw the V50 wagon at Detroit and was very impressed with what Volvo had to offer. One of the options that intrigued me were the T5 and 6MT combination that is supposed to be offered mid-year.

I've read that this combination is from the S60R with some retuning and engineering to fit the S40/V50.

Does anyone here have any idea how reliable this combination has been with other Volvos? Is the 6MT significantly different from the 5MT other than an extra cog?

Ken

volvomax · January 2004

First, only the gearbox, not the engine is donated by the R.

The feel of the 6 spd is much better than previous Volvo manuals. Much shorter throws and more positive feel on the gates.
The R clutch is very sensitive, alot of people stall the car first time out, so I don't know if the clutch will be changed for the S40.
The ratios don't seem that different from previous Volvo manuals.
Driving the R I almost never use 6th.

jthorsen · January 2004

Re: difference between S60 and S60 AWD same as difference between S40 and S40 AWD.

I believe the S60 AWD also includes the $550 climate package (heated seats, rain sensor, headlamp washers). The price difference between the 2.5 and 2.5 AWD is $1,775...taking out the climate package the AWD alone would be $1,225. So in addition to the question of whether or not the AWD option will cost the same on the S40 as on the s60, we'll have to wait and see if they will bundle other options in with the AWD on the 40 as they do currently on the 60.

x_typer_pilot · January 2004

Does anybody have any confirmation about the availability of a T5 V50 that would have AWD and still be supplied with the 6MT?

I've heard that the US market AWD models will only get auto trannys? It would not be the first time that happened in the US and we still got the manual tranny up here, but I was wondering if anyone here had heard otherwise?

kens · January 2004

I was at the Detroit auto show and the Volvo reps there all said that the V50 would be available with T5 and 6MT in the mid-summer. Mini reviews on C&D, R&T and Automobile all say the same too.

Ken

frenchy2002 · January 2004

I was told by the Volvo customer service department that satellite radio would tentatively be available on 05 models. It would surely be welcome, especially if they want to be competitive with Audi and BMW.

Kirstie_H · January 2004

Don't forget tonight's open chat -- Our topic tonight is "Driving distractions: what makes you a bad driver?"

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us!

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

x_typer_pilot · January 2004

Thanks for the info. I already knew that both the 6MT and 5AT will be avail on the 05 V50 T5's. My concern is once you add the AWD option...?

I have heard that ALL US bound AWD models (T5 and otherwise) will come with the auto tranny. I have heard/read no info about the Canadian bound vehicles.

Does anyone have anything to add here? If you have any more info from the auto-show kens, please share - thanks.

anythngbutgm · January 2004

x_typer_pilot, I've read the AWD V50 will only be automatic, from a couple of different sources, but nothing about the combination in the S40. Unusual, since the S40 was shown first. I am really hoping to find something other than an A4 3.0 or a 3 series XI to obtain a six-cyl AWD with a manual... I am counting on the S40 (really would have loved the combination in the V50

x_typer_pilot · January 2004

thanks for the info...

If I hear anything more about the US bound cars, I'll let you know. So far the only two car companies in Canada offering a small wagon with reasonable power, AWD, and a manual tranny are BMW and Subaru - the 325X and the Forester XT. There's still hope for a V50 AWD 6-speed up here. I can remember one of the 850/V70 R models several years ago. Manual was available up here, but not in the US. I'll keep my fingers crossed...

jthorsen · January 2004

The V50 U.S. press release in December specifically stated that it could be equipped with a 6 speed manual AND electronically controlled AWD.

jchan2 · January 2004

What will the base price be for the new S40? Close to the current one?

twillia · January 2004

"What will the base price be for the new S40?"

According to the Volvo Cars web site, the MSRP for the S40 2.4i will be $24,190 and $26,990 for the S40 T5. The current S40 starts at $24,700 for the base model and $28,845 for the LSE model.

Tony

cornellpremed · January 2004

We're looking at around $30K for a gussied up Ford Focus.

cornellpremed · January 2004

That's "next generation" Ford Focus. I'm sure that makes all the difference.

vcjumper · January 2004

how much people pay for the fancy Camry called Lexus ES.

creakid1 · January 2004

That's right! The German-built Focus is not just more reliable(& fun, too!) than any Volvo, but also more so than all the Japanese.

vadp "Hyundai Elantra vs. Mazda3" Jan 17, 2004 5:14pm

Without the Euro Focus technology, the next Volvo will be just another stodgy car to drive. Even the ride comfort of the present S60 is below par compare to the more agile Accord-based new TL(see Feb '04 CR).

By the way, the design of the new Focus II, which the new S40/V50 is based on, is too good for North America that we don't deserve it & can't get it at any price!

qbrozen · January 2004

based on the same platform, therefore its a focus. Ok, sure, sure, sure.

So an Acura MDX is a gussied up Honda Accord? Did you know that? Yup, that $40K luxo AWD SUV is based on the same platform as that $20K FWD midsize sedan.

Just goes to show you how little the platform has to do with the rest of the car.

volvomax · January 2004

Thought a Cornell guy would be brighter than that

Platform sharing is a way of life these days.
In addition to Acuras, Lexus, Infiniti, and Audi, not to mention Saab, Chrysler and now Ford have gone that route. More Car for Less $$$.

jchan2 · January 2004

more profits.

creakid1 · January 2004

"So an Acura MDX is a gussied up Honda Accord? Did you know that? Yup, that $40K luxo AWD SUV is based on the same platform as that $20K FWD midsize sedan."

That's why they're both pretty similar w/ decent ride comfort, although look different.

creakid1 · January 2004

"Platform sharing is a way of life these days.
In addition to Acuras, Lexus, Infiniti, and Audi, not to mention Saab, Chrysler and now Ford have gone that route. More Car for Less $$$."

So, a cost-cutting excuse, but who to share with? Remember the fancy Isuzu Impulse(Piazza) shared w/ the Chevette?

First of all, the Audi A4 has the dynamic Volvo can barely keep up with with the S60.

& take a look at the upcoming Passat. VW finally had to give up sharing w/ their own undesirable Audi design by abandoning the longitudinal-mounted-engine configuration, & do it the Focus way w/ transversely-mounted engine & SPENDING MONEY hiring the Focus engineers to put on the control-blade rear suspension for the FWD models.

It's the same way the new S40/V50's doing. Can't you see the Focus design is the ideal design?

qbrozen · January 2004

the MDX and Accord have nothing in common other than the platform, though, that's all i was pointing out. Different suspension (obviously given the difference in ride height). Different engines. One has AWD, one doesn't. I could go on and on and on.

Alot of folks seem to want to point out that the S40 being built on the Focus platform makes it some sort of overpriced Focus. First fact is that its not even a Focus platform. It so happens the same platform is being used for the Focus. But since Volvo engineers, Mazda engineers, and Ford engineers collaborated on it, it is being used by all 3 companies. Second fact is, as stressed in my Accord/MDX comparison, using the same platform does not mean anything that matters in reference to the 2 vehicles is necessarily the same.

creakid1 · January 2004

"the MDX and Accord have nothing in common other than the platform, though, that's all i was pointing out. Different suspension (obviously given the difference in ride height). Different engines. One has AWD, one doesn't. I could go on and on and on."

That's true, different ride height & suspension w/ 4-links for Odyssey(& MDX?) & 5-links for the sedans.

"First fact is that its not even a Focus platform. It so happens the same platform is being used for the Focus. But since Volvo engineers, Mazda engineers, and Ford engineers collaborated on it, it is being used by all 3 companies."

Platform wise, the Volvo S40/V50 is the closest thing to the upcoming Euro Focus II by sharing the same steering rack & suspension w/ same suspension travel all of which are pretty much similar to the original Focus I's design. Even the Mazda3 is not as similar to the Focus II by using a Japanese steering rack plus the firmest tuning in the suspension. Volvo & Mazda's involvement on this platform is pretty much on the secondary stuff unrelated to the driving dynamics such as arrangement for crashworthiness & engine installation procedure. So this platform is pretty much a pure Focus platform. Don't be ashamed of it, 'cause even BMW envied it so badly that they almost bought the entire Focus I platform more than a few years back!

swedenusa · January 2004

Volvo is starting an all new S40 drive tour for free in February. They are going all around the country, starting in Orange County February 21-22. Go to http://www.volvocars.us/allaccessdrive for more information and to sign up.

revdrluv · January 2004

"'cause even BMW envied it so badly that they almost bought the entire Focus I platform more than a few years back!"

Really? Where did you find that information?

creakid1 · January 2004

Gosh, it's been a while back soon after the Euro Focus was introduced in late '98 that I don't remember if this news article was from an American or British car magazine.

BMW explained that they planned to purchase the Focus platform for their entry-level car to "save the development cost"(Yah right!). Since the Focus platform can also be used as RWD as seen in the recent V8 Focus concept car, maybe BMW was thinking about using it for the upcoming 1-series. & when they were questioned why not adopting the Golf platform instead, BMW quoted that the Focus platform is what the next Golf platform is expected to be. & indeed BMW was dead right that this has become the inevitable outcome for the FWD VWs that VW created job opportunities for those Focus-control-blade-rear-suspension engineers.

Anyway, BMW decided to cancel such project maybe to save its image, but w/ their own FWD technology, they ended up w/ only a bumpy-riding Mini Cooper that can't even handle as well as the comfier-riding Focus SVT, per CR's comparison.

qbrozen · January 2004

I try not to be ashamed of the Focus connection ... I really do try.

Seriously, though, it always receives rave reviews for its handling and ride, so its a great starting point. Its just a shame that so many shoppers are so ignorant as to think the S40 (or even the Mazda3) is a rebadged focus AND to hold that against it.

revdrluv · January 2004

Well most people will never know.

cornellpremed · January 2004

It based on a mediocre platform, and it shows (or rather, rides). People buy them, because its the value leader in the mid-size entry lux SUV segment.

'course, that kind of thing can work for geezermobiles, but I was under the impression that Volvo is trying to attract the sporty, young male buyer with the S40. How are they going to compete with the 3-series, G35, CTS, etc. when they don't even have RWD, and their platform is an upgrade of Ford's budget global FWD platform?

volvomax · January 2004

The G35 sits on Nissans corporate platform.
The CTS sits on GM's Opel platform.
The A4 on VW's.
Japanese sedans and SUV's aren't great handlers but its because the motor companies don't make the effort in that direction.

Look, a platform is the starting point, not the finish. If you read what the press has written about the new S40 they uniformly praise its handling and driving characteristics.

creakid1 · January 2004

Although also not a precise handler, the RWD G35 doesn't share platform w/ Nissan's FWD Maxima/Altima w/ the same engine.

"Look, a platform is the starting point, not the finish. If you read what the press has written about the new S40 they uniformly praise its handling and driving characteristics."

In the case of the new S40, they already "uniformly praise its handling and driving characteristics" since the staring point. As far as the finishing point goes, they kept saying it broke new record in handling/steering for Volvos, but didn't say how far further.

creakid1 · January 2004

"Acura MDX rides like crap
It based on a mediocre platform, and it shows (or rather, rides)."

Except the Lexus RX300 w/ stretched suspension travel over the ES300, SUVs usually rides stiffer & more like crap than their own sedan counterpart to keep down the body roll. BMW SUVs like the X3/X5 are even better examples.

But yes, the Accord platform isn't as comfortable riding as the Passat/A6 platform.

"How are they going to compete with the 3-series, G35, CTS, etc. when they don't even have RWD, and their platform is an upgrade of Ford's budget global FWD platform?"

Budget platform? They did the smart invention by using the control-blades to cut down the manufacturing cost of an expensive platform. Now, as long as they can keep the road noise down w/ a comfortable ride, I wouldn't worry about any deficiency from the Focus platform. The Jag X-Type is based on Focus's big brother -- the Mondeo II -- w/ AWD.

That's why they -- BMW, Mercedes, G35, next IS -- all offer AWD that competes w/ the AWD S40/V50.

blockislandguy · January 2004

Cornellpremed, come on, get real. An S40 AWD is going to blow up Eddy St. in the middle of winter like nothing you've ever seen before. A lot of the poseurs over at the Business School in their leased bimmers will be surprised at the bang for the buck.

cornellpremed · January 2004

It snowed today...

Actually it snows everyday. But today it snowed several times more than usual. I can't get my car into the Stewart+Williams parking lot. I get no traction going down Williams street (climbing up it, as you're supposed to do is an impossibility), and my car just slides all the way down to the intersection.

I've been very happy with my CTS until today. My parents didn't let me get snow tires because they think they're a hoax. So for my next car (even though I'll be out of this God forsaken place Ithaca), I have to get AWD.

I have been dissapointed with the high prices of the S40, which based on looks is much more appealing to me than the competition.

jchan2 · January 2004

check out the Saab 9-2X. You get Japanese reliability, WRX performance, AWD and a nice brand image. It's affordable too.

blockislandguy · January 2004

Cornellpremed, I thought that maybe you were a pretty smart kid. Now I'm not so sure. Everybody, even Cornell undergrads, knows about lake effect snow in the Fingerlakes, everybody runs snow tires, the smart people run FWD (you're parents stuck you with a RWD Caddy as an undergrad??), and even without snow tires anybody who really wants to can make the run up Stewart Ave. and through the uphill, left turn to Morries. After that little dustup we had in Southeast Asia 35 years ago, a lot of guys were even running pickups on bald tires to get through Cornell on the GI Bill. And they never missed Last Call at Morries because someone gave them a Caddy without snows.

Don't write off the S40 based on pricing. These are the Moroney Prices (ask an econ prof who Senator Moroney was) and after the first 6 months your local Volvo retailer will wheel and deal as always and discount.

herzogtum71 · January 2004

Has anyone seen cargo room specsfor the V50 (both behind rear seat and with rear seat folded down)? Or EPA gas mileage figures and fuel requirements (regular, premium) for the two engines that are supposed to be available? Thanks.

stickguy · January 2004

I believe the NA (base non-turbo) engine can use regular in the S60, so it should be the same here. All the turbo engines need premium.

volvomax · February 2004

All Volvo's specify premium fuel.
Cargo area w/ rear seat up 14.7 cu ft
W/ rear seat down 25.3 cu ft.
w/ front pass seat folded down 46.2 cu ft.
Length behind rear seat 38.9 inches
Length behind front seats 69.5 inches.

herzogtum71 · February 2004

Are these maybe European specs that have been converted to U.S. measures? (The Europeans reportedly do not measure all the way to the ceiling when computing cargo room.) I was expecting the V50 to have a bigger cargo area than the current V40 which according to the brochure from the dealer has 33.5 cubic feet behind the rear seat and 68.1 cubic feet with rear seat folded down. The V40 measures 40.1 inches behind the rear seat and 68.9 inches behind the front seat with the rear seat folded down. From the 38.9-inch and 69.5-inch figures, and the increased height of the vehicle, it seems like the V50 should be bigger than that.

cotmc · February 2004

"How are they going to compete with the 3-series, G35, CTS, etc."

Is the S40 intended to compete against these vehicles?? I would consider the S60 to be a more direct Volvo competitor to those cars. The S40's main competition should be the TSX, A4 1.8T, the MB C230, and perhaps the 9-3. (Did I omit anything obvious?)

volvomax: I tend to agree with herzogtum71. A cargo space of 14.7 cu ft seems more like the specifications for the sedan, not the V50 wagon??

jchan2 · February 2004

competition should be:
A4
TSX
9-2X (for the V50, anyways)
1-Series

volvomax · February 2004

Just going by volvo's published figures.
I'll be seeing and driving the S40 and V50 later this month, I'll be sure to get more exact figures.

xmf314 · February 2004

I saw a new S40 on display at my local mall. It is a quantum leap over the old model. The interior was much better finished than my S60 and was upholstered in a slick looking fabric that looked pretty nice. I think the Volvo boys will have a winner here.

herzogtum71 · February 2004

I found the figures you noted on an edmunds site. Didn't find specs for the V50 on the volvo website. May be looking in the wrong place, though. If you can get cargo volume figures later this month and post them here, that would be great. There was a similar situation with the specs reported on edmunds for the new Mazda6 wagon, and the specs the manufacturer is publishing now are much bigger.

New S40/V50

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