New S40/V50

dafohosmen · February 2004

For all those who are complaining or unsure about the new S40 pricing, you can now build your own 2004.5 S40 on the Volvo Website. Dont click on the normal Build + Price link, go to the New S40 site and then it will allow you to build.

qbrozen · February 2004

some of us are complaining because we already did build our own and price it.

dafohosmen · February 2004

What is there to complain about? Were you expecting to get a car that nice for 25K? Build a car with the same specs from Audi or BMW and see what the price comes out to.

grimm01 · February 2004

FYI, I saw that Volvo is having a Drive Experience for people interested in the new S40. The website is: http://www.volvodriveevents.com/default.asp?redirect=drive_experi- ence

It's free, and you get to run the new car on a track. Should be interesting... I wonder if they will have the T5 available?

cotmc · February 2004

One Volvo dealer near us is expecting two new S40 demo cars to arrive the first week of March. One of them is a FWD turbo with an MSRP of $35.6K! He showed my a price sheet on it. It has over $8K in options, including Nav.

Yikes! Will this new S40 be good enough to win customers away from the S60, especially when it is now very easy to buy an S60 2.5T with Premium, Touring, and Sports packages for $29K?

bretaa · February 2004

Wow, 36K. That's steep. There are some really good BMW's, Acuras, Audis, etc. at that price level.

I'm thrilled to see all this competition. Can anyone remember a category as uniformly impressive as the "entry luxury sports sedan" class as become? S40, 3-series, A4, TL/TSX, IS300, 9-3, CTS, X-Type, C-Class, et al. It's pretty amazing. The worst of the class, commonly felt to be the X-Type, still, by all measures, is a quite good car!

What are the initial T5 prices pegged to be?

- Bret

cornellpremed · February 2004

After you add all wheel drive it will likely cost $38,000. That is a lot of money for a front wheel drive based compact car.

qbrozen · February 2004

We have discussed this previously on this board, but here is the short version from my point of view.

I can't make definitive judgements until at least driving it, but I can say that it would be REAL tough to justify me dropping well over $30K on a loaded T5 when an Acura TL is about the same. And, frankly, only from the point of resale. Volvos used to have great resale and its why I bought one. Now the resale has completely tanked and I couldn't even buy an S40 or TL if I wanted to because I am so buried in my S70. BUT, as you can imagine, if I was going to trade, I'd be downright gunshy of another Volvo. So, for the same price, I can get a TL that accelerates faster (according to TL tests versus Volvo estimates at this point), has a great rep for reliability, and holds its value like gold. Its just my opinion.

I agree, however, that if you compare it to BMW, MB, and the like, it will most likely seem like a great bargain.

qbrozen · February 2004

cornell - I'm not following you. So it will cost that much for AWD version, but that's a lot for a FWD version?? Or are you saying that just because it is also available in FWD, it shouldn't cost that much for AWD?

Besides, where did those numbers come from anyway ($36K and $38K)? Did I miss something? Are we talking about the S40? Because even if you get it fully loaded, its $34,500.

Breta - go to www.volvocars.com to check out and price the S40

creakid1 · February 2004

The TL has numb steering, although not by Volvo standard, but sure is by Focus standard. & the new S40 is reaching the Focus standard. CR find TL's steering feedback all right, but not C&D.

Plus, the lack of AWD(at this moment) means the stick model has horrible torque steer plus the tugging from the LSD. Acura's future solution is like Highlander's -- hybrid rear electric motor.

Isn't it horrible to live like that in a reliable long lasting TL? Fortunately the resales is good enough to get rid off it. ;-)

If you want a stick Acura sedan w/o torque steer, then you have to get the TSX, but still w/ numb steering plus a very taut ride.

qbrozen · February 2004

So far, I'm comparing FWD Acura to FWD volvo, so it makes no difference.

I've driven the 6-speed TL and was VERY impressed.

And regarding "numb steering", I'm not sure where this comes from (I assume you've driven both the TL and TSX?) or what it really even means. I guess my modified '79 CJ7 with 32"x10.5" meats had what might be called numb steering. That would be my definition anyway. My Alfa, on the other hand, feels like a squirrely go-cart. So it all depends on your frame of reference, I guess. But neither of those ever presented a problem while drifting around corners and tearing up the tires, so how much I feel through the steering wheel just doesn't affect what car I drive.

stickguy · February 2004

a nicely loaded (ie, premium pack, cold pack, but no Nav, extra electonic stuff or overkill stereo) T-5 is about $31,300 with the AT, so s/b about $30,100 for a 6 speed. Not cheap, but not 38K either, and certainly competitive with a 325i or an A4 1.8T.

I didn't check, but I assume a base engine S40 is about 3K +/- less, and the AWD will add about 2K, but probably have more stand features (cold pack?).

Stability control, Xenons, etc. (whatever isn't standard) will certainly drive up the price, but it's nice that you have a choice on this car what's important.

For my money, if the Mazda3 offered power 8 way heated seats for less than 21K, it would be a no brainer. The Volvo has just enough extra goodies to make it a tough comparison.

creakid1 · February 2004

"But neither of those ever presented a problem while drifting around corners and tearing up the tires, so how much I feel through the steering wheel just doesn't affect what car I drive."

To me, it does, whether it's gripping or slipping due to road slickness, etc. To average drivers like the one family member of mine, he got scared just by not slowing down in our high-limit 17"-wheel TSX when the fwy became a high speed ramp. His previous car was just a low-limit C220, & he was able to steer confidently on that same ramp at high speed.

No, I haven't driven the new TL. It was C&D who complained about both the new TL & TSX in their preliminary reports that the steerings lack communication about the tire adhesion.

My personal experience is that the TSX's steering has zero "grip info", & only strong self centering & feeling of bumps from the road. The '01 Audi A4 quattro I drove seems far from this numb, & rides supple, too, so it must not have the optional sport suspension.

qbrozen · February 2004

ah, ok, i understand now. thanks.

but it really is all about personal experience and preference then. I feel alot of things that, for instance, my wife doesn't. Even when I'm the passenger in her car. So different strokes for different folks. But your explanation helped me understand why different people need a different "feel" to their car.

qbrozen · February 2004

I'm with you exactly on that one. The only thing keeping me away from even checking out the Mazda3 is the lack of power seat.

stickguy · February 2004

I don't even care about the power part. I just want the 8 way adjustability, which seems to have been available on the old Protege. Once I get the seat just right, I normally don't change it, and my wife almost never drives my car.

qbrozen · February 2004

oh, i like the power part. only because it typically gives more seat travel, which I desperately need. I've had 8-way manual seats and they don't come close to getting me as comfortable as the power ones. I have no idea why. Just part of the design, I guess.

stickguy · February 2004

I still love Volvo seats, which by themselves are enough for me to seriously consider the S40. That, and the turbo engine and 6 speed tranny from the R, among other things.

qbrozen · February 2004

good point

jchan2 · February 2004

the way I want it, is under $29K. The premium package and a few other options. (DSC, and one other package, I forget)

newdoc2002 · February 2004

Really interested in the new s40 and noticed that the 18" rims shown on the car on various web pages (5 spoke) are not listed in build your own or in the .pdf brochure.
E-mailed volvocars.com new car contacts and was told these rims were not available for "U.S. market" and then they gave me a list of four names that were.
Too bad, I really think the wheels pictures look the best on the car and Why do they keep picturing the car (US being the primary market) with them if we can't get them?

And TL vs Volvo - I think you are getting to the level of personal opinion between these two cars. I was looking hard at the TL but the rear deck was too high for my wife to see out while backing up (She's 5'3") and she would back over everything in sight including our children. Hope the S40 has a better sight line. Still the TL is a great car. Maybe the s40 can put more comp. and better prices in the market for all.

qbrozen · February 2004

she would back over everything in sight including our children

LOL. hey, look at it this way, then you could get a 2-door sportscar instead.

yeah, yeah, it was tasteless. sue me.

creakid1 · February 2004

has low rear deck before it got switched to the high-deck retarded 900 series.

Hurry, the '03 Mazda Protege sedan has a low rear deck, but the car has a firm Japanese ride & un-Japanese-like noise level. Handles great, though. I guess the tasteless Sentra & Lancer also got low rear deck.

volvomax · February 2004

Volvo is still on the fence regarding making the 18"s available in the US.
Hopefully I'll have an answer next week.

newdoc2002 · February 2004

Think we could get the 18's in overseas delivery if not here in the U.S.?

volvomax · February 2004

possibly, we'll know in May.

cotmc · February 2004

I have also been looking forward to reading more info on the new S40, as well as seeing it in person. However, I have an ongoing concern regarding price. No, I'm not saying it is too expensive compared to an Acura or an Audi. I'm just comparing prices with Volvo's own S60. Not sticker prices, but "street" prices.

Somebody here mentioned they priced an S40 turbo with Premium and Cold packages for $31.3K, while somebody else priced a base S40 2.4i (non-turbo) at about $29K with Premium and a couple other options.

With a $3500 factory incentive, our area Volvo dealers are pricing the S60 2.5T at least $5000 off of MSRP. An S60 2.5T with Premium, Touring, and Sport packages can be purchased at about $29K. Check out all the features included! It seems like an awesome deal.

With that in mind, what are the arguments for spending more money on the S40 (at least until good discounts are available)? The 6-sp tranny sounds like one good reason. Another reason may be the styling of the S40, but that is perhaps more of a subjective versus objective reason. Are there other significant reasons that I am missing?

creakid1 · February 2004

roomier than the S60? W/ better steering feel as well?

Anyway, EVO found the steering over assisted & numb.

The use of electro-hydraulic steering assist is creating such problem, even the Focus C-max is suffering from this compare to the Focus I, although the steering communication is still there & way better than say, the new Golf Touran.

Also, as both CAR & Car&Driver kept complaining about the Mazda3's bottom heaviness, there's no doubt that EVO also found the new S40 T-5 not as agile as the BMW 3-series.

jchan2 · February 2004

included:
Premium Pkg ($2,295)
Leather Seats (included in premium pkg)
Convienience Pkg ($490)
DSC ($695)
Metallic Paint (Silver): ($450)
Power Glass Moonroof (included in premium pkg)
Destination Fee ($685)
Grand Total: $28,805, minus tax, title, and tags.

twillia · February 2004

> creakid1: "Isn't the rear seating room supposed > to be by roomier than the S60?"

Yes. Before I heard about the new S40, I was considering a S60 but was disappointed with the limited rear leg room. I have not seen the 2004.5 S40 in person, but these are the figures according to Edmunds:

2004.5 S40
Rear Leg Room: 34.4 in.
Rear Head Room: 37.2 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: N/A

2004 S60 2.5T FWD
Rear Leg Room: 33.3 in.
Rear Head Room: N/A
Rear Shoulder Room: 55.5 in.

Does 1.1 in. make a difference? For me it does. The 34.4 in. is more in line with the amount of rear leg room in a Acura TSX (34.2 in.) and Audi A4 (34.3 in.), which are two other cars that I am considering.

Tony

benjamins · February 2004

Yes, the rear room is what I'd care about. I'm not that concerned about how sharp the handling is vs. a Bimmer, Acura, Audi, etc. I'm really more into the overall feel of the car because most of the time I'm driving conservatively, on bumpy roads at low to moderate speeds, on fairly straight highways with occasional curves, often in moderate traffic. I know some folks are big on just how sharp the handling is but I'm looking at seat comfort, interior ergonomics, visibility (s60 has strong blind spots), practical over the road dynamics, noise levels at cruising speeds vs. the s60, not just handling and steering feel. I don't want 18 inch wheels, overkill for my purpose. My feeling is s40 and s60 will feel different, they will have a different "gait". s60 and s80 certainly feel different, and I think most passengers like the s80 better. Quieter, roomier, smoother, and for the driver better visibility.

creakid1 · February 2004

S60 & S80 share the same platform, so the S40 should feel quite different.

Regarding to my post #392, that EVO is a car magazine from Europe, where the lowered sport suspension is standard for the Beemer 3-series. Since EVO did praise the new S40 T5's ride & quietness, it's only fair to compare it to the N.A.-spec Beemer 325i sedan w/ the standard non-sport suspension.

creakid1 · February 2004

The rear leg room measurement means nothing unless you add up to the max front leg room for the total leg room figure.

Besides, those 34-ish figures are probably just the KNEE ROOM!

"The 34.4 in. is more in line with the amount of rear leg room in a Acura TSX (34.2 in.) and Audi A4 (34.3 in.), which are two other cars that I am considering."

Both the TSX & A4 got pathetic amount of stretch-our rear leg room, worse than the Mazda3. & since the new S40 shares the same platform & wheelbase as the Mazda3, expect to stretch your feet further in the new S40 than in the TSX & A4.

Try the new Accord sedan, you'll think you're in heaven! ;-)

& don't be misled by the super cool optional "dentist chair" in the RWD Infiniti G35 for COMFORT, as I don't think its shallow-riding Japanese suspension's gonna cut it.

volvomax · February 2004

Volvo is aware of the overlap.
The S60 2.4 will probably be dropped for 2005.
The S60 2.5T will have to be moved upmarket some.
The S40 will be quicker than the S60, as well as having better handling and a more interesting interior.
The S60 will be cheaper, at least for now.

creakid1 · February 2004

"The S60 will be cheaper, at least for now."

The S60's likely to be an inferior car than the new S40 anyway, from the rear-seating room, acceleration/fuel economy, steering feel...& probably having no better ride comfort, either. Maybe only the quietness.

6thbeatle · February 2004

i'm wary of any volvo to the same degree as any VW. even though i myself have never owned a volvo, i have gotten personal feedback from several volvo owners about their vehicles, and the most common complaint is that they are very expensive to fix, especially those equipped with turbochargers.

i took apart a late-model volvo engine in my night school class, and the design for the cylinder valve was unnecessarily complicated, and in my opinion, extremely prone to sticking. volvo must have forgotten the mantra K.I.S.S.

jchan2 · February 2004

When will the S60 be redesigned?

creakid1 · February 2004

it'll most likely use the platform from the next Euro Ford Mondeo(the present one is also being used by the Jaguar X-Type), while the upcoming N.A. mid-size Ford sedans such as the Futura will use the existing Mazda6's platform. The new larger Ford Five Hundred is supposed to be using the existing S60/S80 Volvo platform.

cornellpremed · February 2004

I can't imagine anyone wanting to pay $38,000 for a gussied up Ford Focus Volvo, even if it does have AWD and a navigation system.

volvodan1 · February 2004

??????????????????????????

6thbeatle · February 2004

don't any of you care that volvos are consistently ranked so poorly in reliability? i absolutely love the guigiaro designed body style, the all silver joystick shifter, and the NAD stero compenent-like interior design, but aren't volvos a poor investment? wouldn't it be wiser to invest in a subaru legacy turbo wagon, for example? oh well, it's just talk anyways...

jchan2 · February 2004

from previous owners, I've heard that Volvos are quite durable. My friend has a mid 80's Volvo 740 wagon and he is still driving it, with 300K miles and going.

weaponous · February 2004

Saw the 2004.5 S40, sweet vehicle, don't like the large gaps between the hood and side panels, nor the gaps betweed side panels and front facia, but told the car was just a prototype. At the end of the day, a smaller S60.

This will compete well against cars in its class.

6thbeatle · February 2004

does anyone know if the volvo 5-cylinder engine is any good? i instinctively have a distrust for any engine with an odd number of cylinders. dunno why, it just sounds innately imbalanced.

i've done some research on this vehicle, and i like everything about it except for this. also, does anyone in canada know how much the T5 V50 wagon will cost up here (no AWD)?

creakid1 · February 2004

As long as the car is better than the S60. Besides, it's the Focus II -- a car too expensive to be sold in America that you can't even get it here at any price. & the made-in-Germany Focus I topped the reliability rating of all cars sold in Germany, including the Japanese cars.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=44126
Pretty soon, you will likely to see a gussied up Mini Cooper costing twice as a base Mini Cooper.

& according to CR, the Focus SVT costs less than the base Mini Cooper but beats it hands down from ride, handling/steering to room & comfort.

jchan2 · February 2004

being a car based off a Focus isn't a bad thing.

jchan2 · February 2004

say, a Cavalier or a Neon?

qbrozen · February 2004

ya gotta love how cornell just spits out completely unfounded lies, ignores all the feedback we post to the contrary, and than spits it out again. Can someone hit his reset switch please?

qbrozen · February 2004

Where do you get your information that volvos are unreliable? Can you please post sources?

The volvos that I know of that started the "unreliable" reputation were the S70s. In particular, the '98s (the year that I own). 84K miles now and no more problematic than my Toyota 4Runner I owned for 4 years and even less problematic than the Subaru Forester we had for 2 years.

Going back prior to the S70s, volvos had a great reputation and great resale value.

The 5-cylinder configuration is nothing new, either. The way it came about was by chopping a cylinder off of their straight-6. Car companies add and subtract cylinders from their engines all the time. I remember Chevy cut 2 off their 5.7 V8 to make the 4.3 V6. VW does it now with their W8/W12 engines. Its common cost-saving practice.

volvomax · February 2004

The S60 is scheduled for a redesign in 2006 or 2007.
Volvo has charge of the platform for that car.
Meaning that there probably won't be as much sharing in this car as you might think.
6th beatle, WHAT?????
The 5 cyl has been around for over 10 yrs w/ hundreds of thousands of engines built.
Name me one new car that is cheap to fix.
Even your precious honda and scooby-do's can be expensive to repair.
cornell, I guess all those thousands of people who pay for gussied up camrys and accords must be doing something wrong. As has been exhaustively demonstrated here the S40 is alot more than just a swedish focus.

New S40/V50

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