New S40/V50

qbrozen · March 2004

Who, in particular, makes them? Do we know? I've always said the auto in my T5 is the best auto I've ever experienced. It would be interesting to me to find out the manufacturer (I always assumed it was Volvo).

crikey · March 2004

Woud it be Aisin-Warner? See Suppliers to the Volvo S40.

ateixeira · March 2004

Go drive a Porsche Boxster, the tiptronic automatic is awesome. That thing reads your mind, downshifts before a turn, things like that. Incredible.

-juice

creakid1 · March 2004

Anyone noticed the 8-way manual front-passenger seat adjustment missing in the dealer?

What happened to the passenger cloth seat w/ manual lumber, cushion height & angle adjustment in the All Access Drive? I told everyone the good news that this is the best car in the world w/ the best pair of front seats, & now...

Volvo, are you listening? If you don't bring this adjustable passenger seat back by the time I'm getting the stick 2.4i, then I'm gonna tell people that Volvo has deceived us!

& this gussied up "Mazda3" doesn't deserve to cost this much higher, since the shorter rear leg room needs to be alleviated by the raise-able front passenger seat.

volvomax · March 2004

0-60 time S40 manual 6.3 sec auto 6.7 sec

Aisin Warner builds Volvo's tranny's. Volvo designs them. Getrag supplies the S40's gearbox.
Volvo wants to invoke the "R line" to enhance the rep of the new S40.

The 5 cyl engine is Volvo's own design. The S40 engine is smaller, shorter and lighter than the 5 cyl in the S60 and S80.

creakid
The ride and drive cars were all Euro spec. NOT US spec. If you honestly don't believe the S40 in total is worth the price hike over the Mazda 3, Don't buy one!!!!!. Don't buy one and then say you were decieved. No one has decieved you, Volvo said the ride and drive cars weren't for the US.

jchan2 · March 2004

that we can't get the European Focus here as a Ford. (We can get it as a Mazda or a Volvo, but not as a mainstream Ford)

rctennis3811 · March 2004

Wow, looks like there's a lot of hype on the new S40/V50! Sweet! I'll be sure to thoroughly check one out next time I'm in for service at the Volvo dealer.

creakid1 · March 2004

want my date or just another passenger to enjoy the best cloth front seat in the world I'll be so proud of. Oh well...

I've been laughing at those expensive leather seats that provide less comfort than cloth in the hot sunny S California. The S40 forces you to buy leather, moonroof, auto climate AND turbo in order to get the 8-way passenger seat w/ lumbar.

While the $23k Passat auto includes both front cloth seats w/ height & lumbar but no tilt. Can't wait to see the upcoming Passat!

rctennis3811 · March 2004

Well, I went to the Volvo dealer today and I got to see the S40 for a much longer time than I did at the auto show. WOW! The truck AND interior are larger than they look. The front seats, as in traditional Volvo standard, are probably going to be the INDUSTRY standard once again for comfort. The one I checked out was a white S40 2.4 with all the options and wood trim. Very sleek on the outside, very luxurious on the inside - FAR ahead of the previous generation. I'm still considering it as a replacement when my G35 lease is up!

ateixeira · March 2004

Did you try the rear seat? The G35 is cavernous, did you feel like the S40 was a lot smaller in back?

-juice

creakid1 · March 2004

mkupetz1 · March 2004

I was just wondering if anyone knows whether there is an aux-in available for the premium audio package on the new S40 2.5T? I'd like to be able to plug-in an mp3 player or even my laptop to here those played over the car speakers. Any info is greatly appreciated!

jchan2 · March 2004

how much $$$ in terms of incentives will be tossed onto the outdated S60.

creakid1 · March 2004

advertised in the newspaper for under $22k.

& the old S40 is advertised for under $20k.

ateixeira · March 2004

Prices will overlap for a while, then.

-juice

creakid1 · March 2004

& will be "reincarnated" from the S60/S80 platform. It is expected that Ford will have to be ultra talented in tuning this chassis dynamically in order to keep the next Mondeo fun to drive.

I wonder how will the Chevy Cobalt behave. The Euro version of it -- the new Astra -- is already seeking Lotus's help to tune it!

nyccarguy · March 2004

That I'm actually excited about an upcoming Volvo! Just to give some background, my experience with Volvos isn't too good. My family had a 1985 740 Turbo (bought new) that actually dropped dead when the odometer hit the 85,000 mile mark. We had a slew of problems with it as well. My neighbor recently returned a 2001 V70 T5 wagon when his lease was up. The car was in for service 48 times during his 39 month lease. After the 31st time in for service, Volvo actually refunded him one month's lease payment. I know in general that most people have Volvos and they run forever and 2 days.

I think the 2004.5 S40 is so cool! I like the bull nose styling, short overhangs, and the interior looks nice too. The styling is very BMW 3 series meets Lexus IS300 (which I like). Volvo seats are ultra-comfy.

The car is priced very well in this super competitve segment. You get a lot of features for your dollar as well.

I read originally that the car was also going to be available with AWD as an option on the T5 and that Volvo was going to bring an R version of the S40 here too. Is this still true?

I'm excited for a T5 AWD w/ a six speed!

All the magazine reviews for the car so far have been stellar!

creakid1 · March 2004

nyccarguy · March 2004

The FWD will understeer as well as torque-steer (hopefully not as bad as the Saab 9-3 I used to own). The AWD will help put the power to the pavement more easily.

mazda6s · March 2004

creakid1 · March 2004

Instead of choices of leather, leatherette & cloth like the Passat or Canadian 3-series, or the IS300's Escaine/leather besides the std black-only cloth & optional full leather, the S40 has std cloth, premium-package leather, & sport-package/turbo outdoor-type fabric called T-tech. Like the Mazda3, either beige or black.

ateixeira · March 2004

I drove the S60 FWD and AWD back-to-back, the AWD model was superior in every way. Even if we ignore traction on the wet/soapy tarp, which was obviously much better, it handled better in the turns with far less understeer.

Torque steer was eliminated completely. It was more neutral in general.

The AWD option was worth every penny for the upgrade, in fact I wouldn't get the S60/V70 without it. It's also very quick-acting and engages smoothly. Impressive.

-juice

creakid1 · March 2004

while test reports mentioned that the S40/V50 T-5 AWD only does understeer.

boydoc · March 2004

If the new S40 has a nonturbo engine, will it take regular gas. Any damage if we don't use premium?

creakid1 · March 2004

Even if premium gas is required. All premium-gas(& even most regular-gas) engines these days have knock sensor that automatically retards the ignition to prevent pinging. But using regular on a premium engine wastes both power & fuel economy, adds & wear.

rctennis3811 · March 2004

Sorry about the lateness. Yes, I did try out the rear seat at the dealer and before at the auto show - it is indeed smaller. That, though, is the only thing I found wrong with the S40. I'm hoping to soon sit in a V50 and see if there is a slight difference in legroom.

creakid1 · March 2004

& tilt it high so you can keep it as much forward as possible w/o restricting your stretch-out front leg room, then go to the back & it's nearly as roomy as the Mazda3 sedan, at least on the right side.

creakid1 · March 2004

the T-5 does not have the sport suspension std despite having everything else the 2.4i's sport package got such as the 6.5"-wide rims, front spoiler/fog lights & T-tech fabric.

So now we have 4 different combinations:

2.4i w/ 6"-wide rims

2.4i sport w/ 6.5"-wide rims

T-5 w/ 6.5"-wide rims

T-5 sport w/ plus-1-diameter 17"s

So far one Brit magazine found the T-5 flawed because the ride over bumpy roads isn't so great & suspected the 17"s to be the culprit.

According to my yrs of "Focus" experience, the firmer setting is less than ideal for comfort, such as the Euro-spec suspension found in the Street Edition Focus sedan/wagon, or the one-choice Mazda3 suspension. Eventhough either one is lowered like the Focus SVT suspension.

According to my test drive in the Volvo All Access Drive event, both 2.4i w/ 16"s & T-5 w/ 17"s handled great w/ little roll, but the bumps weren't thrown into the test tracks for us to experience. I wonder why. I'm sure these cars we drove are equipped w/ the sport suspension.

As I pushed down the corners from outside the car w/ my body weight, I discovered that the T-5 on stage actually has a softer suspension w/ slower rebound for relaxing ride comfort more so than the red 2.4i below the stage.

I think my future test drive of both suspensions over bumpy roads should confirm that only the std suspension will ride sufficiently comfortably to compete w/ the std 325i while the sport suspension is design to compete w/ the rest of the 3-series w/ sport suspension.

Sounds like the T-5's std suspension w/ 6.5"-wide rim is the right combo for me, since I corner pretty fast & will find the 2.4i's std 6" rim too narrow to hold the tires from dragging the sidewall.

So if I buy the 2.4i w/o sport suspension, then I still have to spend at least several hundred bucks more to change the rim size.

creakid1 · March 2004

Since the turbo model has slightly higher displacement than the non-turbo model to begin with, both engines should have about the same power w/o the turbo boost.

So when driving the stick shift at low rpm & need an instant burst of power such as when a lane-change opportunity suddenly opens up, is it faster to step on the turbo engine & wait for the pressure to boost in about 1/2 second? Or is it faster to down shift, turbo or non-turbo, to use the normally-aspirated power already exists in the higher rpm range?

During the '80's, Honda invented an "auto 1/2-gear down shift" feature for the manual-tranny Honda City when the driver floors the throttle as if when he needs to pass another car right away w/ no time to down shift.

I think the soft-response effect of the turbo engine should help to damp some manual cars' jerkiness.

The only disadvantage of the turbo is when the boost comes on just a tad later, will it be too strong that you have to back off the throttle again? Such as when you need to fine tune a line when cornering. Or I simply have to use a lower gear to run at higher rpm in order to avoid using turbo-boost while fine tuning a line?

Unlike the weak-low-end TSX's engine that having close ratios in its 6-sp manual seems to be a necessity. The T-5's super-flexible engine can afford to keep the first 5 gears wide apart, while the 6th is just a luxury "silent" gear that also keeps the hwy fuel consumption economy-car decent! This is something the Mazda3 owners envy.

Otherwise, the $2800 T-5 upgrade sounds like a bargain w/ the right-size rims, fog lights & one more taller cruising gear to saves fuel, noise & engine wear. Plus pwr driver seat, T-tech fabric, leather shift knob, steering-wheel audio control(worth $45 to deduct the price off the $895 stereo upgrade), trip computer, dual-zone auto climate control(hopefully the charcoal filter w/ smog-detecting recirculation will be included for N.A. by '05) & trunk 12-Volt socket.

Anyone seen the base T-5 w/o the pwr passenger seat? Does it have wood or aluminum trim? The brochure lists both std.

volvomax · March 2004

T5 has wood standard

w/ any car in a cornering situation @ speed you should use the lowest gear practical.
This way you can stay in the engines power band and build power coming out of the turn.
For example, you wouldn't take a curve in a Honda S2000 in 5th gear, you'd be in 2nd or 3rd to stay in the engines power band.

bigdaddycoats · March 2004

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=00152133

creakid1 · March 2004

despite that I'm not a wood person. The silver, both in the std plastic & the optional aluminum, feels uncomfortably metal-ish, as if that thin center stack can cut you if you brace your right leg on it during hard cornering. Neither do I feel more comfortable putting my palm on it at the door armrest than the wood panel. Besides, it's kind of an annoying color not too different from the Dodge 600/New Yorker K-car from the '80's or even the old Caddy chrome. My '76 Chevette had silver plastic panels everywhere.

The wood center stack looks thicker as if it was intentional to use a piece of thick curved wood as part of the structure in this FANCY interior design.

The aqua-transparent looks gross & messy.

A glossy piano-black, which is not available, should look nice despite ruining the visual contrast w/ the tiny black switches.

Now I have another $-saving reason to upgrade to the std T-5. ;-)

creakid1 · March 2004

So I demand the charcoal filter to be included in the N.A.-market S40, at least w/ the auto climate control, hopefully by the '05 model year. That's how BMW does it -- the Canadian 320i w/o optional auto climate control has no charcoal. Getting the T-5 is the only way to get the auto climate control w/o requiring the moonroof or leather, both of which I hate.

For only $500 more than the 2.4i w/ auto climate control, which requires the premium package that consists of moonroof & leather, you can get the std T-5, which has everthing(auto climate, wood, pwr driver seat, etc.) in the 2.4i's premium package except the moonroof & leather, everything in the 2.4i's sport package except the firmer suspension, & even part of the 2.4i's convenient package(trip computer) plus the T-5's exclusive trunk 12-volt socket. But it is the T-5's manual tall 6th gear I'll be proud of. ;-) Imagine a powerful sports car that also cruises relaxingly.

& while cruising, the on-demand full-torque thrust is just half-a-second away starting at 1500 rpm! & if you don't like the half-a-second delay, you can always down shift to any of the several gears available & see which way is quicker. Sounds like either way will be fun!

stickguy · March 2004

You sound like a perfect candidate for overseas delivery. Could be real hard to find what you are looking for in stock, and not sure how easy it will be to order one. Resale down the line (for a cloth non-slider) will be your problem!

In the past, you could actually do Euro delivery and configure a car in a way that wasn't available in the US (much more ala carte, with a whole slew of stand-along options). IIRC, on the S60, you could get the base car w/power passenger seat (N/A at all normally), Homelink by itself (package only normally), and a bunch of other tidbits.

Just a thought about how to get your somewhat unique configuration and color.

creakid1 · March 2004

then I'd do it!

volvomax · March 2004

The car in question has to have the option available. 2005 S40's will be available in Aug-Sept for Euro Delivery.

josh684 · March 2004

Anyone know what kind of fuel is reccomended for the new S40, is it 91 Octane?

volvomax · March 2004

Yes it is.

camina · March 2004

I currently own a 1988 BMW 325. I'm hoping to buy something else. The S60 is not sporty enough. I waited over 8 months for the 2004.5 S40. I have seen all the pictures on the web and finally sat in one today at a dealer.

I was extreemly disappointed in the interior. It looks really cheap and the center console is a joke. I felt like I was in a rental.

It was a good idea but looks like Volvo screwed this up. No way is this worth 27.1K for leather and moonroof. This is an over priced Ford Focus.

npaladin2000 · March 2004

Check out the Mazda3. Same platform, lower price, feels like much higher quality. Definitely qualifies for the term "sporty" though it wouldn't be considered a "near-luxury" marque like BMW and Volvo (Even though you can get it with Nav, and leather, and pretty much HAVE to get it with a sunroof).

You might be better off waiting for the 2-series though. But there was a recent article in AutoWeek about how it's going to be VERY difficult for the Euro brands to keep from raising their prices because of the strength of the Eurodollar.

307web · March 2004

US export is either cancelled or will be delayed for a few years while BMW ponders marketable engines and body styles for the US.
The 1 and 2 series were originally expected in the US as soon as this fall.
Not anymore. It may be canceled for good.

creakid1 · March 2004

No spare tire, so you're forced to ride on those run flats that don't cushion bumps well.

Other than that, it's a perfect 2+2 w/ poor rear leg room.

If the production version can be tuned to ride comfortably, then I'll be interested in the notchback coupe w/ a wide rear glass width not found in the new S40.

camina · March 2004

I would like to stay away from German cars since they have bad reliability reports especially on the electrical side. I looked into the Mazda 6 a while ago and thought it was a good car for younger people. I would imagine the Mazda 3 is along the same lines.

If you look at the New S40 book, there isn't anyone in there over 27 years old. After looking at the car today, I can see why. I signed up for the drive event but now I don't feel like going.

Here are the other cars I have been looking at with short comments. Tell me what you think.

BMW 3 - Not reliable, everyone has one because of leasing deals. Arrogant dealers and service. Too expensive. Most of the car is made in Germany and the transmission is made in France. Not exactly my two favorite countries at the moment.

Audi A4 - Not reliable, 4 cylinder too slow and just as much or more expensive than 3 Series with 6 cylinder option.

Mercedes C240 - More expensive and more problems.

Acura TSX - Not bad but at $27K, too expensive for 4 cylinder. Dealers were not discounting when it first came out. I may revisit this one now.

Infinity G35 - Great performance and reliability, a little cheap on the inside and plain on the outside. Too much power for me

.

VW Passat - Great reviews but not sporty enough.
VW Jetta - Nice looks both inside and out but terrible long term quality and made in Mexico.

Volvo S60 - Nice both inside and out. Ride is not sporty enough. Wide turning radius and headrest are too big which blocks your side vision. Not enough pickup with standard engine. I would only consider with the $4-5K factory discount.

Infinity IS 300 - Great performance and reliability. Terrible looking dash with the 3 big circles. Looks like a old fashioned washing machine dial. Center console has too many colors. Exterior is very boring.

Toyota - (the car company that pays off Jesse Jackson). Don't really have anything for what I am looking for but may look into the Solara Convertible.

Saab 9-3 - Not bad inside and out. Didn't have great reviews.

creakid1 · March 2004

gave high praise for this prototype 1-series except "The One was taut-riding and restless over the rough French roads we tried. Before production begins, the engineers plan to dial back the spring and damper rate to increase the suspension's give. They claim his can be accomplished without damaging the handling."

In the same issue, the new FWD S40 T-5 w/ 17"s was criticized badly including the lack of the 15% final polish in ride comfort found in the Jag & Beemer. Of course, the A4 rides even worse.

"Good grip but steering lacks feel when cornering; ride and body control suffer when pushing on"

"Push the T5 hard and it quickly becomes apparent that this sort of approach is not really enjoyed by either the car or driver. When you want the steering to tell you what's going on it goes all tongue-tied, denying you th sense of accuracy the best sports saloons offer. The system also lacks feedback once on lock. Body control that had seemed well judged at lower speeds starts to fade, allowing the car to lurch on its springs and pitch and yaw until progress becomes ragged."

"Below 2000rpm there's very little action and the boost arrives with such a polite surge it removes much of the excitement from driving the T5. Very soft throttle response makes meting out the power frustratingly inaccurate, too."

"For
Well made, rapid, comfortable, individual

Against
So-so handling, lazy engine, knobbly ride"

At this price, the turbocharged-2.5 S40 only has similar 0-60mph time as the normally-aspirated-2.5 325i! W/ no better rear seat room than this RWD rival, plus the cancellation of charcoal filter & manual passenger seat-height adjustment for N.A....

I might as well invest in a better-resale stripped $28k 325i & install a $2k factory cloth sport seat w/ 4-way lumbar.

Both the Volvo & Beemer offer bi-xenon. AUTOCAR did like the the S40's.

creakid1 · March 2004

"I signed up for the drive event but now I don't feel like going."

It was deceiving. The cars on the track had sport suspension so they handled great but that's because there were no bumps available for testing. The T-5 on stage had no sport suspension, so when I compress the corners outside the car, it felt like it has a relaxing ride(amazing for a car that cornered like that on the track! But that's a different set up).

creakid1 · March 2004

The TSX's long springs have a surprising taut ride that doesn't pamper the passengers while the steering can't tell the driver about the tire grip.

The G35 is a little crude including the so-so steering precision even though it doesn't lack feel. The ride might be a tad shallow, while the off-throttle oversteer(w/ std suspension, per CR) & the RWD power tail slide are bare kept in check w/ the stability control switched on.

The upcoming redesigned Lexus IS maybe quite an attractive proposition. The drawing seems to look not too different from the present car w/ a nice rear glass width.

npaladin2000 · March 2004

You could check out the Mazda6. Probably similar dynamics to the Acura TSX with a 4 cyl, but it's also available with a V6 (WITH a manual tranny, if that interests you). Honda also has the S2000, if you're looking for sports car action. The Mazda3 can be luxoed-out with leather and NAV and xenon low-beams. Doesn't sound like you've checked out Lexus yet, and then there's also Subaru's upcoming redesigned Legacys.

Sounds like all you're considering is luxury nameplates, mostly. In those cases, they're much less likely to haggle, and you pay for that nameplate (admittedly, you pay for some other things you can't get in other cars too, but that nameplate invites a premium).

creakid1 · March 2004

Hopefully the '05 model will allow the N.A. cars to be equipped w/ DSC. & the Bose stereo is on its way. Then just add hundreds of dollars of sound insulation on this reliable car & put on the S40 or Gabriel shocks to calm down the rebound...

The '06 cars are coming just over a year away. There's the German-made new Passat blown up from the new Golf/Jetta V w/ Focus-type rear suspension. Like the transversely-mounted-engine Passat back in the early '90's, it'll be super roomy again.

camina · March 2004

Well, all I can say is I was waiting for almost a year for the new S40 to come out and I am both disappointed and upset. The theme should be changed from "All New" to "All Cheap" as far as I'm concerned. How can you make a car with a center console like that ? What were they thinking ?

I drive a 1988 325 coupe with 240K miles and was holding off as long as I can. I was hoping to get a new car this spring.

Is there anything else coming out soon that is newly designed ?

npaladin2000 · March 2004

Ok, you probably DON'T want to hear about the new Hyundai SUV, so that leaves the 2005 Subaru Legacy/Outback, due to be relased around June, I believe. Or you can get the Mazda3 (Keep that DSC away from me...I have my own DSC, and it's called a "steering wheel") which doesn't need a Bose stereo, really.

Nothing else comes to mind, though I might see something at the auto show in a couple of weeks (NY City one).

New S40/V50

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