BMW 3-Series 2006

wildcatjon · April 2005

Shipo/anyone, what about ride quality? Any thoughts? Also, do you buy the rims and snow tires at tire rack or just the tires? Sorry for the naivety. Thx.

shipo · April 2005

One of the nice things about ordering the Sport Package on a BMW (and most likely other German cars) is that since they have to design their cars to operate on European roads (which for the most part are beyond wonderful), meaning that they have to take places like Paris (specifically Paris's many horrible cobble stone streets) into the equation. As such, the degradation in ride quality between a BMW sans SP and one with SP is minimal, however, the performance gain is quite substantial.

Regarding mounting a set of winter tires. Most folks buy a set of wheels from TireRack when they order the tires. TireRack will then mount and balance them for free before they ship them to you. By doing this you are also able to buy a set of tires that are "Minus 1" in size and/or narrower in width, making for a better winter tire. Your other option is to buy the same size winter tire as your summer tires and then pay anywhere from $20-$30 per tire, twice a year to have them swapped onto your factory rims. As one can see, the tire swapping charges can add up quickly, making a second set of wheels seem like a bargain.

Best Regards,
Shipo

dom1 · April 2005

Dear Shipo and anybody that can help,

As you may remember, I am new into the BMW world and considering getting an xi because of my "hill from hell" driveway. I have found your recent comments regarding "i" vs. "xi", performance vs. snow tires, etc. really interesting and informative. I still have a few questions that would probably help me in my decision.

1. I have heard that performance tires have a shorter lifetime than all-season tires. How often should I expect replacing them versus the all-season, assuming same driving conditions? What about winter tires, for how long do they last?

2. Will the "xi" perform as well as the "i" with performance tires in the summer? I think all differences between performance are due to the larger wheel size and slight suspension modification. Of course, the "xi" will weight more than the "i" but probably I cannot feel the difference.

3. I noticed the 2005 xi comes with SP option with all-season tires. Would performance wheels be available from places like tirerack.com for the E90 xi? I am thinking of having all-season tires until they need replacement, and then change to performance tires in summer and winter tires in the cold months.

Thanks for your help, best regards,
Dom

shipo · April 2005

Dear Hill-From-Hell, errr, I mean Dom,

Okay, point by point:

1.a) True, Performance tires have a much shorter life span than do All-Season tires.
1.b) The All-Season tires on my 328i were probably good for 60K miles, while the Performance tires on my 530i were probably good for only 25K miles.
1.c) My winter set has probably ~12K miles on it and the tires still look practically new. My best guess is maybe 40K miles.

2.a) An "i" with SP should be able to run circles around an "xi".
2.b) The mechanical differences between non-SP and SP are the wheels and tires, a lowered suspension with higher spring rates and stiffer/thicker anti-roll bars.
2.c) The difference in weight between a 2005 325i and a 2005 325xi is 242 pounds, which equates to about a 7.5% increase in weight. Can a driver feel that? Probably.

3.a) True, all "xi" cars are equipped with All-Season tires, regardless of whether the SP was ordered or not.
3.b) Yes, TireRack (among others) would be more than happy to sell you a set of performance wheels and tires for a BMW "xi".
3.c) Not a bad idea at all. Just keep in mind that the OEM tires will probably last several years. That and if your "Hill-From-Hell" is anything like some of the driveways around here, then you might find yourself peddling a lightly used set of All-Season rubber on eBay after your first snow.

Best Regards,
Shipo

bmwccc · April 2005

Holy Mackerel!

Have you guys got on the BMW site lately to estimate your car. My 330i came out to 43,545 and with 36 months with 15k miles and the standard $1500 down was $745 per month. That seems extremely high.

Is this a realistic idea of there leasing prices? If that is the case, both Audi and BMW need to reevaluate or stop smokin from the same pipe.

Thanks

blueguydotcom · April 2005

No, you shouldn't trust the lease thing on the BMW site. Get the MF/residual, negotiate the price and then do your numbers on leaseguide.com.

The BMW site is just a general thing, that doesn't really account for the myriad of vagaries in leasing.

ritchieg · April 2005

Right now we pay about $2.28/gal on super. Believe it or not I've seen a few Hummers over here. You could never park something that big over here. Most parking spots were tight for my 325i.

When were you coming again? Right now it hits the upper 60's and low 70's for a high. Drops into the 40's at night.

Sounds like a nice trip. I live in West Germany close to Luxembourg.

Enjoy your trip.

mevande · April 2005

Holy Cow!,
I am surprised at that #! (43,545). That price is close to what you get when you price a 2005 525i w/Nav package, cold weather package and destination charges. Here is the price data on the 525i :

Base Price $37,765 $41,300
Selected Options $2,325 $2,550
Destination Charge $695 $695
Total $40,785 $44,545

There is no way (IMO) anyone will get a discount once they start showing up at the dealers. I am questioning the "value" of the new 3 since the pricing is steep. Any thoughts on what the heck BMW is thinking? They "do" have competition and they prob. forgot that fact since this will be the "new" hot car to get.

Thanks!

Mike V

blueguydotcom · April 2005

Mike,

there is no way (IMO) anyone will get a discount once they start showing up at the dealers. I am questioning the "value" of the new 3 since the pricing is steep.

I'm sorry but the price of the 330i is maybe $500 more than last year but it comes with more standard features.

A base 330i now comes with xenon, moon, auto headlights/washers. When I bought my 330i in 2003 all of those were extra.

My current car = 330i perf pack, xenon, leather, moon, metallica paint = msrp of 43k
An 06 330i with sport pack, leather, metallic paint (xenon and moon standard) = msrp of 41k.

That's a 2k drop in price for more content and more power.

Any thoughts on what the heck BMW is thinking? They "do" have competition and they prob. forgot that fact since this will be the "new" hot car to get.

Actually, they were very much thinking of the consumer and now the car offers more for less money. The euro is far more expensive but BMW isn't sticking it to consumers. Check out Audi's price jumps on the A4. The FWD 2.0FST starts at about the same as a new 325i (now a 3.0 liter engine).

And BTW, people are already ordering 3's for ED invoice plus 1k/1500 and in so cal many dealers are already doing 1k under MSRP.

mevande · April 2005

When will it arrive in "volume".. to dealers? As we all know (and have read) the 3 series accounts for 60-65% of BMW sales in the US. One things that concerns me in the pricing for BMW has good competition in this price segment, ranging from the Acura TL (lower price and faster) to the Acura RL (300HP and being discounted due to "volumes" at dealers and the Audi A4 among others. I think they missed the mark re: pricing. Any opinions? They can ill afford to price them out of this crucial segment.

mevande · April 2005

blueguydotcom, I agree it seems to be more for the $$, however there are some well "reviewed" Japanese cars including the Acura TL, Infiniti "G" series, Acura RL (can be had for 3k more and has more technology and "arguably" equal fun factor. Specifically the Acura lineup was lame 5 years back and now has some "teeth" (check Acura.com and click on the RL). I am a big BMW fan and my 1st car out of college was a 1985 325i. I now own a "pristine" 1999 740i. I was (still am) thinking of selling my "7" and getting a "3" for the 3 series handles better and has enough room for my two boys in the back (still would not put two adults back there and ask them to endure a long drive. Spouse has a Nissan Quest and like another "poster" here prefers the minivan (fine by me:) for it seats 7, had 2 DVD screens ect. I love the styling of the new 3 (much much better than the 5 series). I will wait perhaps 6-8 months until the "roar" dies down so that I can negotiate off MSRP. I think you will agree for the 1st month (more) they will be selling at "list".

MikeV

shipo · April 2005

I think you will agree for the 1st month (more) they will be selling at "list".

Hmmm, I don't. When the E46 first came out I ordered one within the first month and got a $1,750 over invoice deal, and that was with substantial waiting lists. I beleve that BlueGuy has previously posted that he is aware of dealers who are already doing "invoice plus" deals. I don't see any reason why one should wait if they are looking for a car now. Will waiting six months save you another $250-$500? Probably. Is it worth it though?

Best Regards,
Shipo

paule · April 2005

Dom,
I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. My wife owns an '05 325xi. Her car came with Goodyear RSAs I believe. Since she grew up in So. Cal and we now live in Colorado I took the RSAs off and put on Blizzaks for the winter.

The xi with winter tires is a true snowcat! The "spirited driving" part of the equation with the snow tires has a little to be desired however. Winter tires are softer and it is noticeable when you take a corner at higher speeds.

Anyway I decided to purchase another set of rims and put the RSAs on them for summer tires since it can still snow in April here and I don't feel like running the winter tires 6-7 months a year.

We ordered the xi with the sport package since we liked the sport wheels much better (now the winter rims) and wanted the sport seats also. The xi suspension is the same (sp or no sp).

I decided to get some M68 knock off wheels off of ebay for the summer rims and have been extremely happy with the purchase. They look EXACTLY like the BMW M68 wheels and I paid $653 for the entire set including shipping. Try buying even one OEM M68 for that price!

As far as "feel" on the i vs. xi, unfortunately I have only driven the xi (and a couple of M3s but they don't really count as a comparison) so I can not directly compare.
I kind of regret not test driving an i just for comparison reasons. If I had it to do again, I would drive an xi and an i back to back to get a feel for the difference.

I will say that "throttle induced oversteer" (my 3 favorite words by the way) is nonexistent with the xi. You hit the throttle and all 4 wheels hookup and off you go.

I did run the car with the new rims and the RSAs into a 180 degree corner the other day at a decent speed and she did fine so "using up" the all seasons is probably the way to go from a cost standpoint and 95% of the time you won't notice the difference anyway. I'm sure that last comment may inspire some debate.

blueguydotcom · April 2005

hen will it arrive in "volume".. to dealers? As we all know (and have read) the 3 series accounts for 60-65% of BMW sales in the US. One things that concerns me in the pricing for BMW has good competition in this price segment, ranging from the Acura TL (lower price and faster) to the Acura RL (300HP and being discounted due to "volumes" at dealers and the Audi A4 among others. I think they missed the mark re: pricing. Any opinions? They can ill afford to price them out of this crucial segment.,/I>

Have you really looked at the pricing at bmwusa.com? go there and compare the content v. price. In 06 the 330i has MORE content for less money.

As for the TL, it appeals to different buyers (FWD) and is not in any way faster than a 330i.

The A4 is now priced higher than ever with the new B7s.

now the G35 is a real threat and there is a possibility the upcoming IS250/350 could challenge the 3 series some.

blueguydotcom · April 2005

I think you will agree for the 1st month (more) they will be selling at "list".

I'm with Shipo on this as I already know of people buying e90s below list and obviously ED is far below list.

mevande · April 2005

I live in a city w/ only one BMW dealership (two locations). In a city the size of Indianapolis (1.4 million) that is not "right". I have never paid MSRP for a BMW (or even close) or any other nice "car" that I have owned. I was "betting" that cities with limited competition might be hard to deal with. However, Chicago is only 2.5 hours away and there are approx. 5 dealers up there.

bmwfan2 · April 2005

I found this forum so informative especially posts from Shipo and Blueguy. Thanks.
I kind of want to the E90 the first week of release. If i reserve it now, should i negociate and set price now or set the price when the car arrives.

If I don't reserve now and just stop by the dealer in MAy, can I negotiate better price this way because the cars are already in the lot?

Thanks.

mevande · April 2005

Agreed re: As for the TL, it appeals to different buyers (FWD) and is not in any way faster than a 330i. "", however the RL has something called "Super Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-AWD") . I drove one and this car is fast, has lots of toys (almost too many) and get an awesome skidpad rating of .87! Dive one just for fun and you will see what I mean. Car and Driver ect, however put this in the category/company of the 5 series (not the 3). I have not made up my mind, but the RL(new for 2005) drives like it is on rails. The last decent Midsize car Acura made was the limited edition Acura GS (1995 last yr of prod). I drove what BMW had available at the time in 1994 (and price range) and it was a 525. The Acura was much faster and more fun to drive. The 525 was underpowered that year with a 184HP in-line 6. The Acura bought out the disaster RL! What a disgrace of a car. It took them 10 years to make something decent. This talk is all good. All the people here are genuine going to buy new cars and thats great for the economy.

Mike V.

When I am wrong, I easily admit it:)

blueguydotcom · April 2005

however the RL has something called "Super Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-AWD") . I drove one and this car is fast, has lots of toys (almost too many) and get an awesome skidpad rating of .87!

i believe you that it's fun and many are hoping the AWD system will trickle down to Acura's midsize and compact sedans. The RL, unfortunately, is more of a competitor with the likes of the A6 and departed I35. It's 49.6k MSRP is far above any 3 series i'd consider. I'm aiming to pay 36k or so for a 41k msrp e90 330i (assuming I like it enough to buy one...though the mazda 6 and miata or even an sti could steal me away...too soon to tell).

Dive one just for fun and you will see what I mean. Car and Driver ect, however put this in the category/company of the 5 series (not the 3). I have not made up my mind, but the RL(new for 2005) drives like it is on rails. The last decent Midsize car Acura made was the limited edition Acura GS (1995 last yr of prod). I drove what BMW had available at the time in 1994 (and price range) and it was a 525. The Acura was much faster and more fun to drive. The 525 was underpowered that year with a 184HP in-line 6. The Acura bought out the disaster RL! What a disgrace of a car. It took them 10 years to make something decent. This talk is all good. All the people here are genuine going to buy new cars and thats great for the economy.

I will probably get around to driving an RL but for me it's far too large of a car. I'm a fan of smaller more nimble vehicles. I sincerely hope BMW brings the 130 to the states. While I enjoy my 3, it's too large of a vehicle for me. Yeah, that sounds odd compared to the majority of americans who want large cars. In many ways I have more fun driving my tiny, light (if 2700 lbs is "light") Protege than my 330i. the 330i is exceptional for long drives and it's got decent pick up but often i feel like the handling's hindered by the car's large mass.

Enjoy your RL.

m4d_cow · April 2005

it was in UK, diesel isnt available in US, sadly...

planoml · April 2005

I was just joking about the Hummer-funny that despite all the size issues, people still buy them there. What a deal on the gas! You are lucky. I'm set for May 20th.

dl7265 · April 2005

Thats whats great about the BMW. Even the 5 drives and feels like a small car, but is comfortable.It does not make your feel like your driving a boat, 300m, or what ever large cars are popular these days.

Just checked the weather forcast for Monday for the 3AA in Dallas.80% chance rain ....

DL

ritchieg · April 2005

I ordered my E90 here in Germany with US Specs. How does the price compare to the states? I just want to see if I got ripped because you can't negotiate the price over here.

330i Base Price $32,300
A22 SG paint $ 475
ZSP Sports Package $ 1,800
Domestic Freight $ 200
Customs fee $ 65
Total $34,840

I didn't get leather because in my experience the leatherette is a little more durable.
Of course I'll still have to pay taxes when I register it back in the states.

blueguydotcom · April 2005

The base price seems a little high for ED (but compared to US prices it's cheap) but the rest looks good. Delivery is cheap!

planoml · April 2005

I agree with blue-the bottom line looks good. $1,000-1,500 over base invoice with everything else at retail would be about what you got.

shipo · April 2005

"I agree with blue-the bottom line looks good. $1,000-1,500 over base invoice with everything else at retail would be about what you got."

Well, almost. What I would have said (and what I think you meant) is, "I agree with blue-the bottom line looks good. $1,000-1,500 over base invoice with everything else at INVOICE would be about what you got."

Best Regards,
Shipo

divide · April 2005

I wanted to thank everyone here for all your help. I have never posted before but the information I have received from this forum has been invaluable and now I want give something back.

I just ordered my new E90 330I. I was easily able to get 1K off MSRP. I was very fortunate in that there is a car already in production configure just the way I want. I was told it will arrive second week of May.

My next concern is the interest rate. I got approved financing via BMW and want to know what is a good interest rate nowadays.

Thanks again everyone.

planoml · April 2005

I was under the impression the options were at retail. I fugured the base car at invoice and everything at retail, for someone buying stateside. He came very close to that depending on the spread on top. What I meant to say is-it's all gooood!!!

shipo · April 2005

Both of my BMWs were price negotiated from Invoice up. The first was a domestically sourced 328i, and the second was an ED sourced 530i. In both cases, I took the relevant Invoice price for the base model, then added the invoice price of the various options that I wanted, and finally added a line called "Dealer Profit". I negotiated the 328i for $1,750 over Invoice, and that was within the first month of the E46 being released here in the U.S., and I negotiated a $1,500 over deal on the 530i. If you use the list price for the options, all you are doing is increasing the "Dealer Profit" line by giving them profit over and above what it is that you think is fair for that car.

I still have the spread sheet that I did on my 530i when I did that negotiation, so I will use it to illustrate the point:

ED MSRP ---- Invoice ---- Item Detail
$36,690 ------- $33,390 --- 2002 530i
$00,645 ------- $00,645 --- Destination Charge
$03,300 ------- $03,005 --- Premium Package
$02,300 ------- $02,095 --- Sport Package
$00,500 ------- $00,455 --- Xenon Head Lights
$01,200 ------- $01,090 --- Premium Audio System
====================================
$44,635 ------- $40,680 --- Sub Total

At this point there is zero dealer profit, if I then add $1,500, the total negotiated price of the car becomes $42,180, which is the exact price that my dealer actualy agreed to sell it for. Interestingly enough, my car is now being re-sold as a CPO, and it has an asking price of an astounding $36,999. Yikes, that seems pretty high considering what I paid for it. ;-)

Now, if you take the above chart and calculate the options at MSRP instead of Invoice, the dealer would have made and extra $1,095 in profit for a total of $2,595.

I hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Shipo

blueguydotcom · April 2005

You may be my hero. That deal and the result is a thing of beauty.

bmwccc · April 2005

Shipo & Blueguydotcom

Ok, read the Shipo crash course in negotiation. Sounds very logical and is what I have done in the past for my previous 2 vehicles. Tell me what you think of the following scenario. Because Edmunds does not have invoice pricing out yet on the 2006 330i, lets just use the 2005 330i configured as close as possible to my spec 06'.

I will make some assumptions as well in this scenario, if the msrp of the 06' is $36,300 and the msrp of the 05' is $35,700 the difference being $600 bucks, I am going to add $600 bucks to the invoice price of my 06' spec.

Item............................... Invoice $

2006 330i........................... $33,265
Destination......................... $695
Metallic Paint...................... $430
Cold Weather..................... $910
Premium............................ $2,000
Sport................................. $1,490
Steptronic.......................... $1,210

Total.............................. $40,000

So, invoice on this would be approx. $40,000. MSRP is around $43,500. I just need to add Dealer profit. How much do you guys think is a realistic amount for Dealer Profit?

Thanks

shipo · April 2005

Your responses will vary from responder to responder, so here is my take:

For the new 3-Series, I would consider $1,500 dealer profit to be "Fair", with $1,250 (or lower) being better for you (but very difficult to obtain given the newness of the car), and $1750 (or higher) being too much in the dealers' pocket.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo · April 2005

[Blush]
Gee thanks! ;-)
[/Blush]

What I forgot to mention is that the Domestic MSRP on that car was $47,395, giving me a savings of $5,215 before the sales tax (and the then applicable Luxury Tax) were calculated, which in the end saved me nearly another $600.

Best Regards,
Shipo

virtualbmw · April 2005

i agree

psyran · April 2005

Depending where you live in the U.S. and the availability of the e-90, I think it would be very fortunate for you to get anything off retail for the next few months. With a limited dealer allotment, why give a huge discount to you when the dealer can sell to the next guy for retail with a limited allotment? ( unless you have a buying history with the dealer). If you want discount, it seems the way to go is ED. Let us know if you are successful at negotiating any discount.

blueguydotcom · April 2005

I put this link up before. We have the BMW invoice and more important ED invoice prices:

http://www.blue-guy.com/images/BimmerInvoice.pdf

dl7265 · April 2005

Hmm aprox 5k depreciation in 36 months.Would you have been better on a purchase and resale ? instead of lease ?Of course I understand the hassel of resale a vehicle at that price,ect...

DL

wildcatjon · April 2005

Some interior pics have showed an "aux" input in the center console and the pics of the radio show cd, tuner, and aux on screen. I assume this means you can simply plug your ipod into the aux slot and off you go, right?

bigpapaluke · April 2005

Here's the technique that I have used in the past with every car purchase that I've made. Thus far, it hasn't failed me once. Thanks Blue for posting that link. Made this configuration very easy.

2006 BMW 330i 6MT (Sparkling Graphite & Black Dakota Leather)

Base Invoice Price $33,215.00

Options - Invoice
Order Code Description
--- Metallic Paint (Sparkling Graphite) $430.00
ZPP Premium Package $2,000.00
Black Dakota Leather (ZPP)
ZSP Sport Package $1,455.00
4AC Poplar Wood Trim $-
655 Satellite Radio $595.00
Total Options $4,480.00

Sub-Total $37,695.00

Dealer Profit over invoice 3.00% $1,130.85
Destination $695.00

Total $39,520.85
My Offer $39,700.00

Tax @ 3% $1,191.00
Tags $600.00
Processing fee $299.00

Grand total $41,790.00

armyguy1 · April 2005

Thanks, blueguydotcom. The one price list not included is the overseas military price. It is $26,900 for the 325i and $32,300 for the 330i. You can arrange delivery at a stateside dealer. Previous posts have referred to these prices and others may want to know where they came from. You must be stationed overseas to qualify, however. A 325i may be my end of tour reward once I know I'm leaving Iraq...

planoml · April 2005

Yep! What I'm wondering is what else you can plug in.

greg0320 · April 2005

Very helpful information. Is same type information available for the "xi"? Also, is there any idea when the 2006 325xi and/or 330xi will be available here in the states?

Thanks

Greg

novice · April 2005

I too want to thank all the incredible information you folks provide. I plan on the 325xi when it's available. I'm thinking about the sports package. I understand it doesn't provide the sports suspension or the performance tires--both okay with me. But, does it still have the heftier anti-roll bars? That would be a plus in the car and I don't see why that wouldn't be part of the package but can't find the answer.

Thanks,

Rusty

shipo · April 2005

I've been known to be wrong before so don't stake your life on what I say, however, my understanding is that ALL "xi" models get the standard suspension, and nothing but the standard suspension, including standard roll bars.

Best Regards,
Shipo

eelton · April 2005

The previous xi models did not have a sport suspension option, but does anyone know whether that will be true of the E90 xi versions? The X3 does have a sport suspension option, and the xDrive in the upcoming 325/330xi is used in the X3.

eelton · April 2005

Another point about the E90 xi vs. the previous model. Although the weight difference between the old 330i and 330xi was 242 pounds, it may be less for the E90. At least according to the specs on the Edmunds site, the weight difference between the 530i and 530xi (with xDrive, which the E90 xi will have) is 166 pounds.

I guess I see the desirability of AWD somewhat differently than many people on this board, as I've been driving an Audi A4 with quattro for six years. Audi people seem to see AWD as more of a plus than BMW drivers.

tex62 · April 2005

I live near Dallas and just sent my configuration for a 325i out to bid to 4 different dealers:

#1 - The first person told me that there is a BMW purchase policy not to discount beyond MSRP for the next 6 months. Has anyone else heard this story?
#2 - The next person said that he would match whatever I came back with from the other guys but estimated that he could only go about $200.
#3 - Another dealer responded with a best and final with no discount off of MSRP.
#4 - Still waiting for a response since Friday from the last dealer...

Anyone know what is true and what is fiction....

tex62 · April 2005

What state did you order your call from?...and was it ordered via ED?

dl7265 · April 2005

Well.
1.Bull
2.Shyster's
3.Shyster's
4.well see....

Unfortunatly , there are plenty of ***** in the Dallas area that are paying full price on 2005 models.Whatever. Anyways, they are so arrogant they will wait on a poor sap instead of making a fair deal.You might try Center in Temple , especially if you want ED.

Good luck,
DL

shipo · April 2005

I've been active in this discussion on and off since 1998, and in that entire time I've heard nothing but non-complimentary things about the sales attitude of the Dallas area BMW dealers. Collusion I believe is the formal term for what they are doing. Fortunately for them other dealers (as in dealers not in the Dallas area) are not in on the same secret deal and as such the Dallas dealers cannot be formally charged by the governmental powers that be for price fixing. If you live in the Dallas area and you are willing to pay full price, then you're good to go. If you're not willing, then I've heard that down toward Austin or over toward Shreveport are the directions one can travel to get a much better deal.

Keep in mind, I live in the frozen north (the last of our snow just finished melting today) and have never actually dealt with a Dallas area dealer, I'm just posting what I believe I've heard.

Best Regards,
Shipo

BMW 3-Series 2006

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