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Silverado 4.8 vs. 5.3?
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Comments
In other words...If two trucks were at a stoplight
race...Truck #1 had 220 hp and 300 torque and Truck #2 had 230 hp and 290 torque, with both weighing the same and same gear ratio...and the same skilled drivers... Who would win?
A broad, flat torque curve will probably beat a narrow, peaky torque curve, even if the narrow curve has a higher peak. Probably. There are many other variables, including gear ratios in the transmission and final drive. Do the gear ratios allow the engine to stay in the power band when shifting?
The two sets of numbers you gave are very close to the same. So close, that the match between engine power curve and gear ratios will determine the quicker truck.
But truck #2 should be faster at top speed. All other things being equal, more torque gives more accelaration and more horsepower gives a higher top speed.
The Vortec 350 (5.7L) has a good example of a peaky torque curve (see http://www.gmpowertrain.com/trck57TC.htm ), but fortunately the peak is at a good rpm (2800). That's right about where the rpm's go when passing or climbing (when the transmission kicks down out of overdrive it actually goes to about 2600, but that's pretty close to peak). The power jump is really noticeable after the downshift. It would probably beat the new 5.3L in a race up a hill in drive gear since it has much higher torque there. In a drag race, though, the 5.7L would get eaten alive by the 5.3L because the 5.7L's rpm's would go way beyond the peak where the torque falls off fast. The new GM engines have a much wider torque curve that handle higher rpm's much better (Since horsepower = torque x rpm/5252, the farther the torque curve extends in to the higher rpm's, the higher the horsepower will be. The torque curve is all you need).
Another great example is the 4.6L Cadillac Northstar engines. There is a 275 hp version (LD8) and a 300 hp version (L37) and one would think the L37 is the more powerful engine. However looking at the torque curves
( http://www.gmpowertrain.com/pass46TC.htm ), you see that the LD8 is more "peaky". It actually has significantly more torque up to about 4500 rpm (how often would anyone take a new Cadillac beyond 4500 rpm?) In my mind, that makes it the preferable engine (I believe it's also less expensive, too). The L37 will have a higher top speed though, simply because it's torque curve extends farther into the high rpm's (that is, it has more horsepower).
-powerisfun
Take it easy all.
-powerisfun
I have my 2000 Silverado ordered since July but since they are still jacking around...I have the ability to change some things on my order.
I have a reg cab, shortbed 2wd on order with a 4.8 liter. I have read alot of posts about paying the extra cash for the 5.3 liter.I am not going to be towing alot or have heavy stess on the truck... but i do like the having plenty of power when needed. Is the 5.3 going to have much more of a market down the road than a 4.8 even if it is in a regular cab Silverado or should i just stick with the 4.8 liter i have on order so far.... I am planning on keeping the truck for atleast 5 yrs. Since Gas Mileage is the same basically...that is not a factor...ANy opinions ..greatly appreciated!
Teaboy
But, check it out. Go to KBB.com and put in a 98 or earlier Chevy PU. Make everything the same except 305 vs 350 engine. See how much the bigger V-8 adds to the value. I haven't done it yet, so I don't know. I did try running a 99 used truck but they don't have enough input to set values.
Mike
bbailey2
When I say limit, I mean frame, suspension,....
My dinky new Silverado actually pulls better than my old F350 CC Diesel. But in all other categories: braking, stability, pitch, bumphandling.... the old truck beats it.
In your situation, I would strongly consider the 3/4 ton with as long a wheelbase as I could buy.
There's no doubt a 3/4 ton would be more comfortable for 14 days a year in the Rockies. But what about the other 351?
Whichever truck you buy Bailey,...it's yours.
Mike
Just the tail wagging the dog issue, particularly on steep, sharp mtn grades. The extra weight and stiffness of the 3/4 ton is something to consider.
I was debating to go with the 4.8 liter or the 5.3. I called my dealer today while i still had time and went ahead and bit the bullet.
I got the 5.3. Dont know whether getting this $700 option on my truck was really that good of a idea ...but i did it.
Final Truck goes like this:
Chevrolet Silverado LS Reg Cab Sportside 5.3 liter V8 in Indigo Blue with Graphite Interior 40/20/40 Split Bench. Sliding Rear Window with Factory Deep Tint Glass. Z85 Suspension with Aluminum wheels and 255 WOL tires.
Got everything I wanted... Now i am just waiting till December...
~Teaboy~
-Dr. powerisfun
I dont think i will ever add headers but the K&N
filter i hear is not bad.
Seeya
~Teaboy~
did you get it and how much did it cost? I am going to keep trying going to the big city again tomarrow.
i think i have it in my email account, i will have to go look, but i think that for the 5.3 you will have to order it, i think, someone might have it in stock, but i doubt it. I went to autozone and they didnt have any k&n's in stock for the 5.3 so i'll check my account and see what the number is
That sounds good about the K&N filter.
How much HP would i gain...?
around 5-10 Hp?
anyways thanks again
~Teaboy~
However I would never want to be pulling this rig very often. The big van with its one ton chassis and 10 ply tires made towing the 6500Lb trailer so much more stable (read safe). Even with the elec trailer brakes the 1/2 ton chassis is just not the rig to haul that much trailer. The tires are not right the rear suspension etc, its just all wrong to do this often. Usually when I tow its only 2000-3000 lbs which is fine.
You should definitly be considering only a heavy 3/4 to do that job safely. PS I think the 1500's are limited to 7500lb max, if you read the engine/axle chart its says its higher, but the fine print limits the max trailer load to 7500lb and thats only with the firm Z71 suspension, otherwise I think its 5000 or 6000Lb max.
My opinion is if you want to be pulling over 4500lb very often or long distances, and doing it safely, upgrade to a 3/4 with heavy tow sus and upgraded tires.
-Jim
I don't know why the increase? can't just be due to the slight power increase.
With the 4.10's the fuel injectors will deliver less fuel more often, or about the same amount of fuel for the same load.
Carburetors were never that good.
Mike
There are three effects leading to the higher power: 1) it's easier for the engine to suck in the air (so it's wasting less power on breathing and therefore making more power available), and 2) it's getting more oxygen making the combustion process more efficient, and 3) the higher pressure in the cylinder (caused by the fact that there's more air) causes the expansion of the gases to be stronger.
Good luck
-powerisfun
Not knowing too much about the new full-size trucks, I've got a couple of questions:
1. How do the regular cab trucks drive and ride? My daily drive to work is 80 miles rt, & I want to be comfortable.
2. I'll probably wind up getting the 5.3l motor. I'm not going to be towing much at all, but I'd rather "have it & not need it" than "need it & not have it"! From the posts i've read, can you only get an automatic with this motor? It doesn't really matter to me, I was just wondering.
3. Finally, could someone please explain this "vibration problem" that I keep hearing about?
I read through most all of these posts, and I have to say, everyone here who's posted has had the utmost courtesy and respect for each other. I haven't seen any of the junior-high bickering about "whose truck looks better" or "whose is faster". I'm glad to finally find where the informative, helpful, friendly folks are!
Thanks!!
keith24
We ordered our truck with the 'Firm Ride' suspension. My wife and I both thought it rode soft. So we upgraded to Bilstein shocks. At any rate, this truck rides better than any car I have ever owned.
I have the 4.8L engine and find the power to be more than adequate, even with my camper loaded and the truck weighing 6500lbs. We have 5 spd, which is only available with the V-6 or 4.8L V8. You should drive one first. The power from this 293ci engine is fantastic.
Most of the 'vibration' reports are from ext. cab trucks. These truck have had some problems from the two piece driveshaft and cab harmonics. I haven't heard of problems with std cab trucks, and I certainly haven't had any problems with mine.
We currently have 21,000 miles and only one small problem (transfer case shift linkage rattle) that was fixed quickly by the dealer.
Love the truck and would reccomend it to anyone. Love the 4.8L engine and see no need for the 5.3 unless you want to pull a 5000lb trailer.
Mike
Again, THANKS TO ALL who answered my questions, and also to those who might post in the future!
keith24
Taking the linkage off, and greasing the end fittings stopped the rattle.
Mike
http://www.gmpowertrain.com
click on "Products" and you'll eventually find your way to the torque/hp curves of the 4.8L and the 5.3L engines. A good way to compare them is to print both curves out and put one on top of the other and hold them up to a light. Make sure the graphs are aligned properly. You'll see that the 4.8L has just almost equal torque at high rpm (around 5000 rpm). This is to the 4.8's credit because it's torque curve is flatter extending further into the high rpm's. However, most driving is done below 3000 rpm. At that rpm range, you'll see the 5.3 is substantually more powerful. That to me makes it the more desireable engine even when considering the extra price IMHO. The only exception is if you prefer standard transmission (only available with the 4.8). Then the actual torque to the rear wheels may be closer to the torque of the 5.3 with the auto transmission. In that case, you'll save quite a bit more money getting the 4.8 + standard, verses the 5.3 + auto. Just my $0.02
-powerisfun
BTW it's HP that does work per unit time.
Yes the 5.3 has more hpower at normal crusing rpms.
I think that the marginal increase in hp for the amount of incremental money you spend is not worth it. If you really want more power, move up to the 3/4 ton and the 6.0L.
You're right, and at normal driving rpm's (under 3000) the 5.3 has substantially more horsepower than the 4.8. It's not until 5000 rpm that the 4.8 shines with it's flatter torque curve. Is there a weight savings in going with the 4.8L. That could also lessen the gap in acceleration power.
One other note, this forum is not exactly a scientifically controlled comparison for gas mileage. The 4.8L may actually get quite a bit better mileage if the same driver in the same size truck were compared. What I'm seeing for the 5.3L (on ext-cab, short-beds) is 19-20mpg highway. Are the 4.8L's topping that? If they are, then that's a good reason to go with it (along with the $680 price difference).
On a totally different note, does anyone know if GM is planning on putting the 4.8L V8 into the S-10 truck or Blazer. That would be an awesome combo.
-powerisfun
WHEW... be one fast suv
tea
since they're the same block, why not put the 5.3 in the blazer.....
I'll probably be in the market for a mid-size SUV in the next year or two.
-powerisfun
But the real key is: I want to shift. Neither my wife nor I like automatics. Even if I could get a 5.3/5-spd I don't think I would buy it. $700 is money I could spend elsewhere.
Since I am right at Max GVWR (6500lbs) I am considering moving up to a 3/4 ton truck. Being forced into a 6.0L engine is a drawback in this case. Can't get a 5.3L in a 4x4. Can't get a 4.8L in 3/4 ton truck. And the 6.0's don't seem to get as good of mileage. Most reports are in the 16-17 range on the highway and 12-14 around town.
I really like the mileage I get with my 4.8L. So for now I will stay with it.
Mike
I usually only got 13 to 15 mpg out of my old diesel (all my slow driving buddies got 18+).
Probably the driver mostly, EPA says about 1 mpg higher for the 4.8 vs the 5.3 on highway, same around town. Buy the 5.3 for more low end horsepower, not better fuel economy.
My point: The ext. cab pickup is one of the biggest, heaviest vehicles on the road. You're paying $20-some thousand; get the 5.3L.
The fuel mileage will be better in the 5300, because it will not work as hard. If I had selected a R/C, I would have the 4800. If you can afford the 5300 (LM7) option, buy it.
Which rear end to you have in your truck? Is your truck an extended cab? I've got a 4x4 ext. 4.8 5 speed on order and am still not sure which rear end to go with. Currently have the 4.1 on order, but I don't tow anything except on rare occassions. Thanks for the help.
Dan
You mentioned the 8.1 - is that GM's replacement for the 7.4L? Do you have any info on it? I'm waiting for the 1-tons in '01 and am interested in what GM's big-block gas offerings may be.
It's not known whether the 8.1L will be available in 3/4 and/or 1 ton trucks. Someone said they heard it would only be available in the 4500 and the 5500. Could be hearsay, though. GM will definitely need something bigger than the 6.0L for the one-tons at least. Maybe they'll bring back the 400 (6.6L) in Vortec form.
-powerisfun
5.3 Auto w/4.10 gears for towing. What kind of
mileage can I expect. I have read many posts about the 3.73's but not the 4.10's. Also has anyone had a good experience buying in Northern
California. Which dealer? How much over invoice should I expect here. aduran@bellcarter.com