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VW Passat TDI

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  • erikerik Member Posts: 21
    The TDI engine in the Passat is designed for the NA market only. Therefore, only an 8 valve engine is available. In Europe, it is 16 valves.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    What is the difference in performance in hp and torque between the 8 valve and 16 valve 2.0L TDI engine?
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    From what I understand, when the 2005's go into production, the wagons will be a later availability. There are still some Passat TDI wagons out there, just have to find one. I've heard of dealers taking orders for '05 Passat TDI wagons. They claimed Sept. availability, but I have my doubts they'll be along that soon. As for the other options, maybe on the new bodys. The TDI was a late into on this bodystyle and they only seem to be building them certain ways.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Yes hopefully the new bodystyle (available in fall of '05?) will have more options - specifically a manual tranny.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    quote dieselbreath- Are there fewer wagons in Canada or is it just that demand is higher?
    Due to dealer allocations, we're not expecting our TDI wagon to arrive until October or November as a 2005. Price is uncertain too, as Telematics are standard on the 2005 model which should boost the price.
    Our preferred dealer has sold a number of TDI sedans (but hasn't ridden in one, because customers were always waiting for delivery when the cars arrived).
    The one TDI wagon didn't even make it to the dealer .... customer went to the depot where they unload them from the trains and shot photos of his car getting un-wrapped!
    It seems all the Passat TDIs around Vancouver are "Built to order" and Passat TDI wagons are rarer than Phaetons or Porsche Cayennes.
    Maybe they're all getting shipped to the US?
    Any indications on production numbers, import numbers, etc. ???? -end

    Wow! And you are the same person who ordered their Passat in March of 2003!

    quote dieselbreath March 2003- My wife has already ordered her new Passat diesel wagon from the first arrival of 2004 models.

    As you probably know, VW sells a lot more cars per capita in Canada than in US.
    Also, a higher percentage of diesels here.
    We deal with Langley VW. They're about 45 minutes outside of Vancouver, in an area of commuters. Thus they sell a LOT of diesels (piles of Jetta TDIs). The owner, Bruce Norman, gets flown by VW AG to Germany for new model introductions, etc.
    He gets to see what's coming to North America (and try it out) before many dealers even get any info that its coming. And they get cars other dealers can't get (like Jetta TDI wagons when all the other dealers in BC had long waiting lists). -end

    Your dealer has certainly let you down.
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Member Posts: 243
    "I would also say that getting a B6 in the USA in 2006 is unrealistic. Make a note of how long it is taking to get the Golf MkV into the states. The new Golf has been out here in Germany for a while and is almost old news..."

    The Passat will arrive in US/Canada the same time as Europe.
    Golf & Jetta are different because they are built in Mexico/Brazil.
    So after they build the tools and line in Germany they duplicate it over here, and that takes time.
    But ALL Passats come from the same plant in Germany. It is not possible to build 2 different "flavours" of Passats at the same time.

    PS: Except for cylinder heads, where Europe gets 16 valves and NA gets only 8!
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Member Posts: 243
    RE: "Your dealer has certainly let you down."

    Yeah ... they didn't anticipate the shortage. And we weren't first in line for a TDI wagon. If we wanted a sedan we'd be all set, but we have 2 dogs...
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Jetta (Bora) is built in Germany as well as Mexico. All of the current model Golf were built in Germany until 2001 when the production location was switched to Brazil.
    I'm not following your logic since MkV Golf is already in production in Germany and yet the MkIV Jetta and Bora are still in production in the Wolfsburg facility. The MkV Jetta and Bora will both be produced in Mexico and Mexico will be the only source worldwide for Bora/Jetta and they will be exported to Europe.

    It is not only possible, it is probable that Emden will build the current Passat and continue to supply it to North America at the same time they are building the new "flavour" Passat for Europe.

    Last but not least, even when the 2004 Jetta arrives in North America we still will not have the Golf 4 door, only the 2 door GTI. It may be 2007 or later when the Golf shows up, three years after it was introduced in Europe, and the Mk2 Golf is still in production to this day in South Africa.

    Bottom line is that VW does not uniformly introduce or market models to major markets.
  • telemarkertelemarker Member Posts: 7
    To think the B6 will arrive in NA in 2005 is unrealistic. Here in Germany they have announced two delays already and the German press is now expecting 2006 for EU. Secondly 2005 is not that far off and still no real spy photos? Here Munich you'll see new BMW's driving public streets in camouflage a year and half before introduction. The M6 crusies around almost completely naked but the new 3-series still sports camouflaged.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    I think the current Passat is nearly perfect. No need to rush to introduce a new one.
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Member Posts: 243
    I agree about the Passat. And everyone knows that VW, like other makers, builds different versions in different countries for models that are produced in multiple locations.
    But its been my understanding that all Passats came from one factory (one line actually) and you simply can't economically produce multiple models on one production line at the same time.
    It makes sense for new Golfs to be manufactured in Germany and "debugged" at home before replicating the production line elsewhere (which takes a lot of time and money for tooling).

    You see that with Nissan of Mexico building the prior generation of everything that Nissan of Japan is building. I think in their case they don't duplicate the production line ... they simply ship the old one over after the new one if operational back home (in Japan)

    I think it would be very wise of VW to start up a second Passat line, since they can't keep up with demand now. But that is logical thinking, something that is seen too rarely from large multi-national corporations. But if the taxi companies ever clue into the Passat TDI, (VW should build a special model with tough vinyl seats and door panels) they could consume all North America bound production and then some. (simple math indicates that for a given gas price, there is a monthly mileage figure where a new Passat is free compared to fueling up a Chev Lumina given roughly half the fuel consumption in city driving -- and I believe that MANY taxis exceed that mileage figure)
  • dieselbreathdieselbreath Member Posts: 243
    following my prior post: (simple math indicates that for a given gas price, there is a monthly mileage figure where a new Passat is free compared to fueling up a Chev Lumina given roughly half the fuel consumption in city driving -- and I believe that MANY taxis exceed that mileage figure)

    Given a price of $2 per gallon, and a lease price of $400 per month ($0 down @ 3.9%), a driver spending $800/month on fuel could get the new car free.
    At 20 MPG for the current taxi (such as a Lumina), that's 400 gallons or 8000 miles per month, or << 300 miles per day. For cab companies that operate 24/7 in a city, that is common mileage.

    So, a Passat can indeed be free compared to its competition as a taxi: Lumina, Crown Vic, etc.

    And that's completely ignoring the fact that diesel is typically cheaper than gas (its 80% of the cost of Regular here) and the car will last longer and have a higher resale value compared to the alternatives.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    There are already diesel vehicles offered for use as Taxi in North America. London Taxi and Dodge Sprinter.

    If Diesel Passats are used as Taxi then there are fewer available for the rest of us. I can't recommend the Passat as a Taxi.
  • stillookingstillooking Member Posts: 17
    Classic VW in Orlando, Fl is advertising $21,487 in today's paper for the GL-TDI, which is $300 above invoice. When I looked at a Jetta TDI, they were offering it for 1250 below invoice with the trade-in of my 12 yr old car. In short go elsewhere if they won't deal.
  • weebil1weebil1 Member Posts: 10
    Thanks for the tip. I took a look on their website, and the car isn't available. The problem with "go elsewhere" seems to be availability at this point. My local dealer says they are only getting 4 cars. I do know they are using this to hook in some people on the regular gas Passats. I found on in Texas, but after tax and shipping, it wasn't any cheaper (No sales tax in Oregon).
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Can you buy the Passat TDI in Germany and bring it back after a driving vacation? I thought about that for a new MB E320 CDI.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    VW no longer offers European delivery.
  • ncskibumncskibum Member Posts: 42
    The dealer here in Charlotte is sticking to the MSRP. Nothing over or under. They also won't budge much on the trade-in. I am waiting on a call to see if they come up any more on my trade. I am still wavering between the Passat TDI and Jetta wagon TDI. Only about $1400 difference between the two they have on their lot. Maybe by Friday morning, I will be driving a new VW TDI (my second) instead of an Avalanche.
  • telemarkertelemarker Member Posts: 7
    Go in on the last day of the month and see if they'll deal. If they haven't made their quota for Q2 they might be willing to deal. Can't believe they are not dealing. Sales are off y/y but then again they might be milking the price on the only product they have that is moving right now.
  • machaanmachaan Member Posts: 30
    ..wait till next winter. All diesel cars are notoriously slow in warming the interior. So if you are in Midwest or North-East it not not worth the few fuel dollars saved.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    My TDI has started in -50 F with no need of heater or garage. The interior was warm very quick as it has heated seats. Toasty. There was heat in the interior w/in 3 miles.
    For those who can not wait even a few miles, there is www.tdiheater.com, me I don't need it.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    My TDI has started in -50 F with no need of heater or garage. The interior was warm very quick as it has heated seats. Toasty. There was heat in the interior w/in 3 miles.
    For those who can not wait even a few miles, there is www.tdiheater.com, me I don't need it.
  • champ203champ203 Member Posts: 4
    Took delivery of 04 Passat GLS TDI 2 weeks ago. 1000 miles later - tank one 32 mpg tank two 37 mpg. First tank was pretty much city driving. Second tank highway/interstate driving. Car exceeds my expectations. We bought it without even driving one (a first for us). Paid sticker (ouch). This is our 3rd VW (98 Jetta, 02 Eurovan). The radio (Monsoon with changer in trunk) is the best factory stereo we've ever heard!! So far this car is exceeding our expectations!! Email me if you have any specific questions.

    Peace,
    Don<><
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    USA Today likes the Passat.

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2004-06-10-vw-- tdi_x.htm

    They do say that it will only be here for one year. Is this true?
  • oldboyoldboy Member Posts: 59
    I too was sorry to read that the Passat TDI may only be available this year. Volkswagen has been keeping diesel cars alive here in the USA, but they are limiting availability. We have such high sulfer fuel that it makes it nearly impossible to provide a clean diesel car, even with EGR. Ironically California has lower-sulfer fuel available, but they won't allow new diesel cars to be sold there! Nor can new diesels be sold in the N.E. states that have adopted CA standards. By mid-2006 we will have ULSD (15 ppm) widely available, and it will be possible to provide low-polluting diesels then. However at that time new restrictions on emissions are coming into place, and it is not known if diesels will be allowed to be sold. Who knows what our politicians will do, with legislation that restricts people's choices? Given this uncertainty, it is no wonder that Volkswagen is taking a wait-and-see attitude.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...that the combination of the ULSD and the technology that they are now working on to meet the next level of EU emission standards will do the trick. But you're right, there are no guarantees. What VW and MB are doing in the labs right now, with Bosch and others as partners, seems to indicate that they will make the '07 national standards with some room to spare. But CARB in particular keeps moving the bar - we'll see...
  • preferdieselspreferdiesels Member Posts: 30
    I have been driving diesel cars since 1969. Your statement that "all diesel cars are notoriously slow in warming the interior" is simply NOT TRUE! Where did you get that mis-information?
  • jchagtdijchagtdi Member Posts: 55
    This is all relative. In cold weather (-5 to 15 F), my '03 Golf TDI would take 10-15 minutes before the heater would blow anything other than ice cold air. The warmer the ambient temperature, the less time it took to warm the interior. My '89 NON-turbo diesel Jetta would never heat up in cold weather like that.

    Regarding future availability of TDI Passats, we can look to the past. VW imported their B4 Passat TDI for the last two years the car was sold in the USA, 1996 and 1997. And nothing until '04. I would assume there will be no problems with getting an '05 Passat TDI, but I'm not expecting the next-gen Passat to be sold in the US with a diesel. There were many people who waited for the B5 (1998+) Passat diesel, but they waited 6 model years.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes, on the subject of #2 diesel availability, it was a passing concern of mine before getting a 2003 Jetta TDI. Any where that I have gone, (31,000 miles) I have NEVER once had an instance where I did not or could not get fuel. Some numbers indicate that diesel is sold at 1 out of 4 stations.
  • preferdieselspreferdiesels Member Posts: 30
    Yep, and regarding your first paragraph the same is true of a gasoline engine.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I don't have any experience with TDI but on our Ford 350s with the Power Stroke Diesel we have an attached unit that kicks the engine idle up to 1200 rpm. The manufacturer claims that they should idle at that rpm range to keep warm enough in extreme cold temperatures. At 40 below they don't heat up as fast as the one gas PU we have. They last a lot longer before overhaul. Our service vehicles idle 12 hours a day in the winter. They may get 10-20 miles of driving in that period. Gas engines do not hold up under those conditions. I was against diesel until I experienced the difference in longevity.
  • jchagtdijchagtdi Member Posts: 55
    Are you saying that a diesel takes no longer to warm up than a gasoline engine?

    If so, this has not been my experience. Me and a friend tested this one day last winter. It was a very cold morning (5 F) and my Golf TDI and my friends Jetta gasser had be sitting all night. We wanted to see what the difference was in time to heat the passenger compartment. After going 6 city blocks to reach the freeway entrance, my friends gas powered Jetta was already throwing warm air. After 1 mile on the highway it was blowing hot air. It took another 7 miles before the TDI blew anything but freezing air.

    To say that a diesel and gas car will take the same amount of time to heat when very cold is misleading to the folks reading this forum.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    If the expectation is for the diesel equipt engine for the heaters to heat as fast or faster than the gasser, you will be disappointed.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    My Jetta takes four miles before hot air begins blowing. Most of my gassers take about two. This is starting up, about 1/2 mile of slow speed driving and then 55-65mph country road driving. If I plug in my TDI heater, then the temp guage goes straight to 190F and heat blows immediately. If I drove short distances or just around town, I likely would not drive a diesel. The gassers will heat-up just sitting and idling where a diesel will not.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    After going 6 city blocks to reach the freeway entrance, my friends gas powered Jetta was already throwing warm air. After 1 mile on the highway it was blowing hot air. It took another 7 miles before the TDI blew anything but freezing air.

    So in essence it's taking about 9 miles before your buddys TDI even blows warm air? He better have it checked out because mine takes about four miles. If I'm working in my home town office, my entire drive is only ten miles. My TDI is completely heated and I've turned the heat down to low at about the six mile mark. This was before I installed a TDI heater which gives me instant heat. Are you guys testing this using the method explained in the owners manual for maximum heating?

    Another thing I've found is that I don't turn the blower on until the temperature gauge starts to move upward. If you're running the blower hard right off from the start, you'll actually delay heating a diesel because you're moving cold air acrossed the coolant. You can also insulate the coolant pipes in the front radiator to help keep the cold air from further chilling the coolant.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If you live in a cold climate I cannot imagine you would park outside and not plug your vehicle in. Especially overnight. It is much easier on the battery, starter & engine. Then as has been said you get warm air immediately.
  • dolphindolphin Member Posts: 71
    Does anyone know the real story about the 2005's? Will there be TDI's for the 2005 Passat wagons?
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Hopefully there are TDI's for '05, and hopefully with a manual transmission.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Yes they will be available in 05 and they are same as in 2004. There is 5 speed tiptronic transmission only.
  • preferdieselspreferdiesels Member Posts: 30
    No, actually I agree that it takes a little longer to warm up, but I don't think it is enough difference to warrant a warning to summer diesel buyers and the statement that "it is not worth the few dollars saved on fuel". If it is that cold plug it in at night. I would do that even in the South if the temperature is going to be in the 20's or lower.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    We're changing the title to Passat TDI, given that it's a fact rather than a question.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    For anyone looking I just got an email from Chapman VW in Pheonix AZ. They have a new Passat Wagon TDI available. That's all I know...
  • cactus5cactus5 Member Posts: 22
    I just got my August Car & Driver it shows a picture of the 06 Passat. It mentions the 2.0 liter TDI engine as an option. So is the magazine correct? Where did the idea of the diesel Passat only being around for 1 year come from?
  • preferdieselspreferdiesels Member Posts: 30
    Read the USA TODAY link posted above. I don't know if it is true about the one year thing, but one thing I know is my Passat TDI is relatively quiet at idle and makes no more noise than a gas model at highway speeds.
  • jchagtdijchagtdi Member Posts: 55
    Back in '96 we all thought (because we were told by VW) that the Passat TDI would continue into the B5 model (98+ in USA and Canada).

    I can see where many people would be skeptical of this report about an '06 Passat TDI. I want to see an '06 Passat TDI more than anyone, and I hope it happens. The 2.0 is good, but the 2.5 inline 5 cyl TDI with 4Motion and a manual tranny would be wicked!

    Jeff
  • hienphamhienpham Member Posts: 4
    Is it possible to buy the Passat TDI out of state and bring it to California ?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think the law is that it has to have 7500 miles on it before it can be licensed. I am trying to justify buying one and doing just that. If you want one Las Vegas seems to sell a lot of the TDI Passats. Go to Las Vegas buy one make a couple trips around the country and then register it. If you own it for more than 90 days you also save the CA sales tax. I would not hold my breath till CARB gets their head out of their posterior. I cannot see them reversing any decision. Even with ULSD available in most cities in CA they are holding on to their ignorant regulations.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Has to have 7500 miles before it can be registered in CA.

    I'm aware of some folks that have made agreements with others to buy them a TDI, put the initial 7500 miles on it, then sell them the car. This seems to save money because most of the used TDI's with 7500 miles that show up on dealers lots in CA are selling for well beyond MSRP of a brand new one. Example, you send someone an upfront fee and they will buy a Passat TDI that meets your approval. You mutually agree to buy/sell the car for a set price (usually under MSRP) at the point the car has 7500 miles. You get a slightly used TDI for under MSRP and the other person gets cheap transportation for 7500 miles. I have a friend doing this right now a friend of his that lives in Berkley. Another plus is the car gets broken in by someone you know/trust as opposed to whoever a dealer can get to drive the thing. Course you could always stick the thing on blocks and let it run up the miles. Executives at GM used to do that all the time since they could get a new car every 15k miles, lol..
  • mike91326mike91326 Member Posts: 251
    A friend of mine, who is an investigator with the California DMV, told me of a loophole in California law big enough to drive a new TDI through. While it is true that all-new cars (new is defined as less than 7500 miles) registered in California must be certified as meeting CARB emissions there are some exceptions. For example, if you meet any of the following, you can register a new 49-state car in California.

    .Obtained it as part of a divorce or inheritance settlement.
    .Purchased it to replace a vehicle stolen while you were using it out of state.
    .Purchased it to replace a vehicle which was destroyed or made inoperative beyond reasonable repair while you were using it out of state.
    .Were on active military duty outside California, and you registered the vehicle in the state of your last military service.

    My friend told me that if I want a TDI, I should buy a cheep ($1000 or less) used car, keep it a couple of months, then drive it to Las Vegas and trade it in on a new TDI. When you make the deal ask the dealer to only give you a couple hundred on the trade and reduce the price of the new TDI by the savings. When you register the new car in California you&#146;ll show them the paperwork and tell them the old car broke down in Vegas and was not cost effective to repair.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Very Sneaky ; ^ )
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