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Hybrid vs Diesel
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Comments
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20040929-1518-wst-diesel- emissions.html
I test drove 2005 Jetta TDI 5-speed this weekend. It was very nice and I was amazed at the power up to about 50 mph. I realize a new 2005 is coming out in January maybe called a 2006.
Anyway in Houston the diesel price is the same as Preium gas and is currently around $2.05 where regular is about $1.85
YMMV,
MidCow
And by the way the planetary CVT does have gears , there have been some mistatements that the Toyota eCVT does not have gears. The gears mess with the planetary ring.
However, the eCVT could work with a conventional ICE or a diesel engine. It doesn't have to be the weenie tuned (.i.e. Atkinson cycle) small 1.5 Liter, 76 hp engine used in the Prius. Even TRD used a regular Echo Otto cycle engine in the race tuned performance (an oxymoron) Prius to obtain the blistering acceleration of 8.5 seconds from zero to 60 miles per hour.
YMMV,
MidCow
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp
http://www.deldot.net/static/mfta/del_dyed_fuel_law.html
I have a 500 gallon tank that is filled with standard on-road BP diesel. My Jetta TDI runs substantially better on BP Supreme, but it's not worth the cost to have that delivered since the Jetta only uses a fraction of the fuel. The trucks run perfectly fine on #2 diesel. I just run on-road diesel in my tractors/bobcat because they don't use much fuel either. It's more of a convenience for my pickups so they don't have to stop for fuel. Both have auxilliary tanks and can run 800-900 miles between fuel stops if towing. 1500 miles on the rare instance they're not pulling.
http://go.hotwired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,65273,00.html/wn_asci- i
'In our efforts to extend the Force's use of diesel vehicles, to aid both the environment and our fuel budget, our ongoing partnership with Honda and the new diesel accord enables us to achieve all these aims in one vehicle. The performance and reliability of Honda in front line operations have proven to be very successful and I have no doubt that the Accord's new diesel engine will continue that success'.
http://www.wiltshire.police.uk/news/newsview.asp?id=501
"Honda's new Accord 2.2 i-CTDi Sport has just set 19 world speed records and then achieved 3.07 litres / 100 km (92 mpg) fuel economy as an encore.
Amongst the speed records set at a test track in Germany, which were all achieved in Production Car Class B (2000 - 2500 cc), the most impressive was an average speed of 130.38 mph over a 24-hour period. Two production cars, randomly selected by FIA officials, were used to undertake the speed records, and apart from the fitting of roll-cages, racing harnesses and radio equipment for track-to-pits communication, no other modifications were made to the cars.
Following the speed record attempts, the same two cars were then driven 419 miles from Papenburg test track to Wiesbaden, near Frankfurt in order to complete the fuel economy run. The route comprised of a mixture of motorway and non-motorway driving, during which one of the Accords achieved a remarkable 92 mpg average."
92 MPG over 419 miles - JAMMIN !!! It's only rated at 52.3 MPG, so I wonder what special driving tricks they used to get 92?
Very good question if they used production cars like the article says.
Maybe Xcel set them up, he gets 92 mpg US with his Insight...
I'd like to see BOTH diesels & hybrids in the same car. For example, a 45 horsepower Lupo TDI with an electric motor to shrink acceleration from 15 to 10 seconds.
http://www.honda.co.uk/
As for diesel costs, what does it matter? Even is gasoline cost $2/gallon & diesel cost $2.10/gallon, the diesel will take you ~1.5 times farther, so you're saving money.
Regular: $2.07
Diesel: $2.49
I wonder if ULSD will add to the cost of the oil.
As for additional cost of diesel engine, I have heard that it requires more attention due to the very nature of diesel engines, besides turbo chargers of course.
Is this price increase just one of those things or are we already paying for ULSD ?
http://www.tnrcc.state.tx.us/air/ms/fuelprograms.html#dsl1
As far as I know, diesel is a seasonal fuel in that it is made from the same/similar processes chain that heating oil is made from. So when more heating oil is demanded, less diesel is made - hence prices rise on tightened supplies. Conversely spring/summer sees cheap diesel.
I believe the estimates were about +$.10 /gal for ULSD. However, I am not sure they have the specific cetane levels (etc) in the fuel specced out yet, so there is slop on both sides of that
I think we might be over the hump. Diesel dropped $.20/gallon overnight at the truckstop I travel past every day. It was $.05 more than 87 octane gas, which is about normal for winter here. For the last 5 years at least, diesel is $.05 more in the cold months and $.05 less in the warm months. Give or take a few pennys here and there.
The components of diesel exhaust (DE) emissions are a public concern for the following reasons:
Emissions from diesel engines include over 40 substances that are listed by the EPA as hazardous air pollutants. Components of DE contain potential cancer causing substances such as arsenic, benzene, formaldehyde, nickel, and PAHs. The diesel particulate matter (DPM) is very small (90% are less than 1um by mass), making DPM easy to respire into the deep lung. DPM has hundreds of chemicals adsorbed to their surfaces, including many known or suspected carcinogens. There are many irritants and toxic chemicals in the gaseous phase of DE. Oxides of nitrogen, component of urban smog, are in the gaseous phase of DE. There is a likelihood that people in both ambient and occupational settings can be exposed to DE. DE has the potential to cause adverse health effects including cancer, pulmonary and cardiovascular diseases. Studies show workers exposed to higher levels of DE are more likely to develop lung cancer. In 1990, the state of California identified DE as a chemical known to cause cancer. The International Agency for Research on Cancer has concluded that DE probably causes cancer in humans. The EPA has proposed classifying DE as a probable human carcinogen.
Acute Effects of Diesel Emmission Exposure:
Workers exposed to high concentrations of diesel exhaust have reported the following short-term health symptoms:
irritation of the eyes, nose and throat,
lightheadedness,
heartburn,
headache,
weakness, numbness, and tingling in extremities,
chest tightness,
wheezing, and
vomiting.
I'm sorry, Troy, but there are no studies that link these sorts of health issues to gaoline exhaust.
This makes the pollution from Modern vehicles (those built since 1980s) INSIGNIFICANT compared to the major sources of pollution. These ships on our rivers and coastal harbors burn bunker oil which is as much as 3000 ppm sulfur. Most dirty diesel is less than 500 ppm with the 2006 mandated ULSD it will be 15-30 ppm. The ships that are causing much of the smog in coastal CA. are not included in that mandate. I don't know how to make it any clearer for those with blinders, that think our environmental regulators at the EPA & CARB are doing a bang up job. In short they are the ones that SUCK not the vehicles that save fuel by burning diesel. People in California are paying the price with this smog so people in Arizona can get there cheap TVs & Hondas from overseas.
http://www.sbcapcd.org/itg/download/awma03finalpaper.pdf
My understanding is that only the CARB states have the cleaner gasoline. That is how they get the higher EPA ratings. I know the 45 states gas has a higher sulfur content. That is why cars in those states stink. You really notice it when you leave CA and go to AZ or NV.
That said, at a gas station couple of days ago here in TX:
87 grade: $1.90
91 grade: $2.00
93 grade: $2.10
Diesel: $2.19
So a 15% "premium" over regular unleaded gasoline for diesel continues. If ULSD adds another dime to the tag, the premium grows to 20%.
The very minimum increase in efficiency of the diesel over gas ICE is 25% so you still have a net gain. Plus our dependence on foreign oil will never be resolved with gas burning cars. Even with the lousy ethanol E85 it only saves 15%. Then you get 25% worse mileage. Where with B100 biodiesel you can tell the Middle East to drink their oil while you refill at McDonald's. Gas engines do not offer any real alternatives where diesel engines do... I still think all electric is the best or serial diesel electric.
Gas Diesel price comparison...
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp
For any vehicle certified to better than Euro 4 emission standard, the noxious emissions score is 9. To achieve this score a vehicle must already be certified to ADR 79/01 in Australia.
http://www.epa.nsw.gov.au/air/gvgscores.htm
----- Gas TDI
NOx 1.3 2.7
PMs ----- ----- (not measured)
CO2 7.0 4.7
CO 1.10 0.01
HC 0.15 0.00 (evaporative)
VW TDI diesels have already been promoted by fueleconomy.gov's green score:
2000 = 1
2005 = 6
I fully expect to see 2007 = 9 with the European clean-diesel technologies. In other words, equal to a gasoline car.
troy
They are attacking and insulting. Either agree to disagree and move on or stop posting. The bickering needs to stop.
Every flaw you list is a flaw of gasoline too. Gasoline has PMs. Gasoline has carcinogens. Gasoline is NOT clean.
Troy
Dr. Bernd Pischetsrieder, chairman of the board of management of Volkswagen, remarked that while Volkswagen will eventually offer hybrids, it won’t be soon.
Speaking to journalists in London, prior to the SMMT Annual Dinner, where he was guest speaker, he said: “We are not interested in making cars which don’t make money.”
Biodiesel, he suggested, is the short-term answer and confirmed that his company was working in this area.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/biodiesel/index.html
Does anyone have a link to any page that says that? I have googled my tail off trying to confirm or deny that statement, and cannot find a thing either way.
I would REALLY be interested to know:
A) if they really declared such, and
what their criteria was.
I can't for the life of me see how the emissions of a diesel could ever be declared "cleanest in the world."
Any links or ideas, anyone?
As for criteria, the European Union measures all the same values we do (NOx, CO, HC), but they also include CO2, because they are obligated to meet the Kyoto Treaty. And with the Lupo 3L TDI's 90mpg economy, it's CO2 is only *half* as much as a Prius or Civic.
So the CO2 is likely the reason it won.
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/article_319.shtml
So far I have seen NOTHING ANYWHERE on the web that says anything about the EU awarding "worlds cleanest car" to anyone in 2002, 2003, or 2004.
Did they discontinue the award after 2002?
Here is a link.
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/assets/Environmental%20Report.pdf
But in all their bragging on the Lupo in that document, they NEVER say anything about it ever being rated "cleanest car in the world" which you know the marketing types who produce reports like this would have jumped all over....
Gerhard Plattner completed his first successful 100 euro eco-tour in August this year. In a standard Polo TDI, he drove 3,129 kilometres through 15 European countries. His average fuel consumption over this distance was just 3.95 litres / 100 kilometres with fuel costs of 90.89 euros.
Both of these record journeys were by no means carried out at a snail's pace. The average speed of the first eco-tour was 81.69 km/h and the average speed of the Lupo 3L TDI was 80.76 km/h. The eco-tours were accompanied and monitored by independent experts.
The Volkswagen Lupo 3L TDI was ranked first for the fourth time in a row in the environmental car ranking of the prestigious German institute "Öko-Trend". This repeated success was achieved, alongside the extremely low consumption figures, through low levels of emissions and also the production line which is oriented around ecological aspects.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/021114-3.htm
Impressive.
And practical. We're not talking about a 2-seat car here (insight), or something from the Jetsons (the 1 Liter/240 mpg car), but a 4-seat car with styling similar to a Golf/Jetta Wagon and plenty of room for groceries.
Troy