Jeep Liberty Diesel

winter2 · May 2006

Funny thing about this link. Mobil does not show any specs for this oil. I went looking and could not find any. My guess is that it is the older version that has been re-badged.

I am going to stay with a CI-4+ rated oil even after ULSD is in place. There will be less soot to deal with but it will still be an issue over the long haul. I will use the Amsoil 15W-40 Synthetic year round. Pour point and flow values are similar to most synthetic 5W-40 oils. Plus,I am moving to Florida in a few months so 15W-40 will be ideal.

modelaford · May 2006

Can anyone post a picture or two, or send them to me, of a ProVent installation on a CRD?

Thanks in advance,
Paul

texcrd · May 2006

retmil46 has graciously posted a series of photos in his 'Carspace'. This should be the link. link title . It was a big help to me. Thanks again, retmil46!

Tom.

modelaford · May 2006

Thanks... that was exactly what I was looking for. On a related note, has anyone got an opinion (I know that was a dumb question) on the Old Navy CCV Filter: http://www.stancomachine.com/CCV.htm They are rumored to be making one for the CRD.

Thanks again,
Paul

farout · May 2006

fust: Having had my hose replaced, I can address you question. Your dealer will replace your hose, but they will need to spray the inside of the hose with something that the dealer should know of. The hose takes 6 hours to dry, so the dealer will need your CRD most of the day. My orignal hose had just pressure clamps and the webbing around the hose was only about 6" in length. The new hose has screw clamps, and the webbing from top to bottom and held by a rubber sleve. Good luck.

Farout

farout · May 2006

My CRD had been in for shifting into 5th Lock at 63 mph and dropping out of cruse control, in most dips in the road. After the last tsb my mileage dropped to 19 mpg! The engine was jerking at about 58 mph. The dealer's tec had contacted STAR five different times and STAR was not helpful at all. I was thinking I was locked into this "test market" CRD and was getting more frustrated by the day. The Tec asked if he could replace the PCM, in a chance that the tsb's he had been put in might have fouled things up from the start. Yesterday ( 5/24/06 the PCM was replaced with a new PCM. Wonders od wonders! The difference was nothing short of a miracle! The transmission goes into 5th Lock at 54 mph! No shudder or jerking is there, and the cruse control stays in all the time. The shifts are firm and smoother, and the engine runs with more instant get up and go. The tec said he could not find any indication that the egr was abnormal.
The dealer has two 06 CRD's that run rotten, so they come from the factory this way. After my experience there maybe reason to fault the PCM for most of these issues that many of us have had. At least it give others another chance to see if this might help as much for others as it has for me. Has anyone else replaced their PCM, and if so what were your results?

Farout

winter2 · May 2006

Great news Farout!

The PCM is made by either Bosch or Siemens. My guess is that you had a bad chip in the thing and so that is why it gave you grief.

The other possibility is that the PCM was hit by a surge and a chip or two got damaged.

The last possibility is that it says "Intel Inside". They make poopy processors.

farout · May 2006

winter2: It's odd that two companies make the PCM. I did notice that the new PCM was shaped differently from the OE. On my own pc we have a 3300 AMD Athlon 64 processor, as we have had Intel's that just quit working. The tec advised us to get this one.
I will check to see if I can see what brand PCM it is.

Farout

fust · May 2006

thanks for the reply my hose does have the screw type fittings as well as the full net webbing, does this mean I do have the new type hose or is there a more serious issue with the turbo possible, I also noticed that when I checked the hose after a long drive it didn't seam as oily?, should I check the inside of the hose and did your hose rupture due to oil inside, appreciate any response.

farout · May 2006

winter2: I checked and it's a BOSH. The other PCM was perfectly flat and this BOSH has some indentations and some fin type of looking things sticking out as if to cool it. At least for now it works great, imagine 5th locked at 54 mph. I did not think it could even do it!

Farout

farout · May 2006

fust: My hose, as the tec told me, was the first he had seen like this. The hose should be as you describe, with screw type of clamps. The hose will collect oil on the outside until the dealer orders a new one and sprays the inside with something that seals the inside. My dealer found this out after they put on the new one. If this one gets oil on the outside they will order a new one and reinstall a new one. Mine wa soaked, dripping with oil to the point that I wiped it clean one week and the next week it was just as bad. The hose in under pressure and leaks out into the walls of the hose. I don't know how much pressure,but enough to push oil from the inside to the outside.

Farout

vtdog · May 2006

In a previous post I listed the report of my oil analysis which showed "some soot" in the oil after a 12k interval prior to change. Some here (goobers?) go wild over the CF vs. CF+ rating for the oil so I asked the lab about the soot level. They reported that there was moderate soot in the oil, but consistent with oil in a "break in period". They stated that both the viscosity and insolubles were well within accepted limits. In addition, the TBN was listed as "strong" @ 5.9

So, since I really don't care that much about the oil (its the dealers problem) I use the 0w-40 that the dealer puts in. It seems then, that all the whining and chest thumping about how terrible the CF rated oil is seems like a bunch of bullsoot to me. After 12k mile oil change if both the soot carrying capacity and the TBN are fine I think that the Mobil 1 0w-40 certainly meets whatever standard is required.

dirtmover · May 2006

I stumbled across this petition while doing a google search on the issue:-

http://www.petitiononline.com/kjcrd/petition.html

It's a good way of attempting to track how widespread the issue is and may also give some credibility when visiting the dealer.

trumpet_washer · May 2006

On the morning of May 14th, I started my CRD, and it died when I put it in gear. It would not restart. I called roadside assistance and had the Jeep towed to the dealership. This was on Sunday. Monday afternoon the dealer service dept called and said that they had pushed it into the shop, and it started. They said that they would keep it overnight and see if it would replicate the problem. They also said it had shown a code for large fuel leak. They said that there was no sign of fuel leaking anywhere. Tuesday they called and said that they were going to replace the fuel/water seperator because it was allowing air to enter the system. They were almost happy that they had actually found something wrong. I had to go out of town, but picked the Jeep up this past Tuesday, and have not had any problem since.

trumpet_washer · May 2006

Good idea, but the word is either "stutter" or "shudder".

indianrefining · May 2006

Coining words is a good way to establish credibility, isn't it?

ethom4321 · May 2006

vtdog,
this is the best post on this website. i changed my oil over to amsoil and based on their recomemdation i could go 25,000 miles with filter changes. but as i monitor the dip stick and look how black it is, this sometimes makes me a little nervous. thanks. i will stick with my once a year/12,000 mile plan.

now if someone could prove to me one way or another that turbo cool down in most cases is not needed. read a article from gale banks that says it is not. he now has the world speed record for a pick-up (of course it is a diesel). this guy has alot of credibility.

later
e.t.

stever · May 2006

as i monitor the dip stick and look how black it is

If you're an Amsoil fan here's what they say:

"Most oil and especially diesel engine oil will turn black in the first few hours of operation due to contaminates generated by the combustion process and soot particles. The only way to accurately determine an oil's lubricating value or contamination level is through (spectrographic) oil analysis." (link)

Steve, Host

trumpet_washer · May 2006

As long as you don't get misunderestimated. :shades:

trumpet_washer · May 2006

Any guesses as to why we can't have the Compass CRD in the USA? :mad:

tidester · May 2006

I had read somewhere about three years ago that the Compass was supposed to be introduced into the States. Estimates were for '05 - but I haven't seen anything since.

Anyone know for sure?

tidester, host

chiefusn · May 2006

Steve....it's right there on Jeep's website. Will be available this summer. I'm sure that as we speak they're at work building em.
Chief

chiefusn · May 2006

uh....Tidester, not Steve

stever · May 2006

Ah, but the question was about the diesel Compass, and that's only going to markets outside of North America afaik.

I shutter to think we misunderestimated Trumpet Washer's question, but my guess is who knows. Jeep's probably afraid the market conditions aren't ripe yet - maybe after the new fuel standards go into effect? Or maybe they think the gas one will sell fine since the gas mpg is supposed to be pushing 30mph city. Maybe they just don't have enough engine production and will leave the CRD to known markets.

How do you wash a trumpet anyway? I bet it involves that icky spit valve. :shades:

Steve, Host

twocycle2 · May 2006

Mine wa soaked, dripping with oil to the point that I wiped it clean one week and the next week it was just as bad. The hose in under pressure and leaks out into the walls of the hose.

Question: Did the dealer clean out the intercooler and air intake manifold? If there was that much oil in the hose, wouldn't the intercooler be full too? I would fear that the entire intake track would be clogging with oil....did the dealer address this? Or have an explanation for why this is happening?

The dealers keep dismissing things like these oil hoses, bad egr valves, shudders after hard acceleration as being "normal" for diesels.....but why then do the Cummins engines these dealers also service not have these problems? While mine has remained trouble free so far, I am growing more concerned as to what the future might hold.

Twocycle2

twocycle2 · May 2006

Does anybody know exactly how many CRD's were made and sold here in the US? I believe somebody said production was about 8500 in 05......what about in 06?
Twocycle2

tidester · May 2006

uh....Tidester, not Steve

Not a problem - it's easy to mix us up since we have the same last name: _HOST

And, yes, I was referring to the CRD that Trumpet was asking about.

tidester, host

lightnin3 · May 2006

I will have an answer soon,on that question.
As a concerned DCX employee and the means to email the right people,I had sent off a letter to the powers that be.

The letter described how dissappointed I was that the Caliber/Compass displayed at the North American Auto Show didn't have a Diesel engine available to North American markets.
I also pointed out ,how elated I was about about my Libby,and listed the good qualities and how practical I found it,and that I was hoping that the Caliber /Compass diesel could be available to buy here,and that would be a competitive edge on the companies part to let them be available .

I have heard that DCX is going to offer more diesel engines in future products.
It would seem feasable since the market conditions are there,and people are starting to change their minds on this technology.
Since fuel prices are not going down,alot of people are willing to put up with the change of engines,especially since the Asian companies are getting out of the hybrids and into something more realiable and proven,like the diesel.They always seem to be the litmus test to where we are going.
DCX's view is they have an advantage ,and are way ahead of the competition.
So it is possible ,but nothing is for sure until you see it on the lots,right?
I'll keep in touch ...
Lightnin3...

stever · May 2006

Keep us posted and don't forget the 2007 Jeep Compass discussion if you haven't already found that one already.

I'm having misgivings about the CRD designation; someone is going to start calling the engines CRuD. :confuse:

Steve, Host

farout · May 2006

twocycle2: 8,333 in 05. No exact #s for 06.

Farout

farout · May 2006

Twocycle2: Dealer cleaned all. The reason the egr was not replaced was the Tec said it was remarkable clean. My dealer took every issue I have had very serious, the PCM was replaced which ended all my issues (at this point and time) and I am pleased today.

Farout

whitgallman · May 2006

I've replaced a dozen wheel studs before and half were on Jeeps.
Because my '06 Libby was under waranty, I took it to the dealer Friday morning, waited my turn, told the service writer "When rotating the tires and torquing the lug nuts, one wouldn't load to torque. I marked it with an X." He writes on the service order "customer says lug nut won't tighten." Mechanic replaces the nut with the X and gives it back to me. Says it had a burr on it. (a burr on it would make it tougher to tighten but it would take torque at some point. He did his job, he got rid of the X.) I asked the service writer how much torque should I use. He said "80 ft/lbs I think".
I got it home, found where the owners manual said 95 ft/lbs. Pulling out my torque wrench, I found all the lug nuts loose and when tightening them, one wheel stud broke. Back to the dealer (torque wrench in hand), wait in line, got my turn. The mechanic walked by, I gave him the lug nut with broken stud. No apology. I told him "95 ft/lbs is what the manual calls for". I could bird dog the work from the garage window. Actually getting a torque wrench this time, he checks the remaining 4 lugs, yep, clicked at 95 ft/lbs. He took off the wheel and brake disk and pounded out the stud. On his way through the shop, I asked to see it. Fatigue cracked about 40% across and yielded the rest. After an hour of hem-hawing, I heard the torque wrench click 5 times and soon the Libby came around the corner. I pulled my wrench from behind the seat and checked all of the lugs in front of them before I left the lot.
To mechanics, are all customers idiots? $5 lug nut cost me 3 hours and $8 in fuel. Did anyone learn any lessons from this? They fully met my expectations.
5 star dealer!!!

goodcrd · May 2006

I'm sorry you went through that. But welcome to the real world. The Mechanic you encountered probably used a torque stick on his air wrench to install your wheel. I've been in the business for years and won't let a dealer work on my car if I can help it. I love the new Ford ads with the techs wanting to prove they are better then a non-dealer's techs. I don't like fords and believe FORD stands for found on road dead. (But that is my opinion only!!!) Sadly Ford has made a pretty good work truck for years. The fact is you find people taking short cuts and shot gunning problems all the time. They are either too lazy or not competent enough to solve the problem so they just guess and hope it fixes it or you won't bother to follow up. Also I have found management at service related industries don't hold their employees accountable for the work and only deal with issues when the #### hits the fan. But then it's too late. Your business normally fails first. Find a dealer which has been around a long time and hasn't changed ownership or it's name in the last 10 years. I hope you have better luck. They should at least give you a free oil change for their short coming.

lightnin3 · May 2006

Haha..thats a good one...
I also added in the email that nobody knows what CRD is ,plus they don't advertise the CRD option.Well it's rare to find.

I suggested just putting the diesel logo on the back so most people can relate,in laymans terms.

Hopefully I can get a response soon,for you guys...

Cheers..
Lightnin3...

farout · May 2006

lightnin3: Friend that is not going to happen as DCX has made all the CRD's they intend to put in Liberty's until they have a CRD that will pass emissions requirements. So enjoy the rarer treat of owning a CRD test market Liberty.

Farout

steve05 · May 2006

Farout: I'm not sure if you're allowed to post a dealers name, but this dealer that has made your Jeep so happy is where in the country?

-S

stever · May 2006

Actually posting dealer names and locations is fine; just no names of individuals or contact info please. See the Rules of the Road link on the left for more.

Steve, Host

trumpet_washer · May 2006

Well, silver-plated trumpets can actually be taken apart and washed in a dishwasher. Lacquered trumpets, however, must be degreased and then immersed in chromic acid in order to remove all the crudifications from the inside. :shades:

cubejockey · May 2006

Once the .pdf file opens up, click on "Bookmarks" on the left side of the window pane. Makes it easer to find stuff.

DOE Biodiesel Handling and Use Guidlines

lightnin3 · May 2006

Your probably right.When they announce it, I'll believe it as well.
But until then we can only hope that they'll come out with better engines,that people want in a vehicle.

I have read in DCX's internet about 2 monthes ago something about Deter announcing that 30 % of DCX's fleet by 2008 will be a Diesel line up.
He probably meant outside the U.S. ,like in Canada where fuel is a dollar more per gallon,that it might be a feasable market condition.
I thought maybe he meant making the diesel option more readily available in these small cars.
I have read also about the possibility of the blue tech diesel being an option in the 08 Gr. Cherrokee,and revolutionary new eurea catylitic filter for reducing emissions.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what DCX has up their sleeve.
And wait and hope..

Cheers ...
Lightnin3...

rkernbob · May 2006

I've noticed the same issue that eebro is talking about... At about 53mph and after hard acceleration the Liberty CRD jerks a bit. I think this is transmission related b/c I don't experience this issue at any other vehicle speeds. In different gears you can get the same engine speed, so if it was on the engine side you should notice it at other vehicle speeds. I had tons of problems with my transmission. It was in the shop 4 times b/c of the check engine lamp coming on. They replaced a bunch of stuff in the transmission (valve bodies, control modules etc.)which eventually got rid of the CEL and the shuddering got better. However I can still get it to shudder at 53mph if I try hard enough.

caribou1,

what do you mean by "I don't a closed loop." ??

dirtmover · May 2006

I also have this shuddering after moderate/hard acceleration. I noticed that the exact same shudder is 100% reproducible once the drivetrain is warmed up simply by disabling ovedrive. Have you tried this?

whitgallman · May 2006

Caribou1 meant that his engine monitoring computer is a European one that is less sophisticated than the one that US EPA requires. It monitors engine data but doesn't have a closed loop of information going back to the computer to see if the computer inputs resulted in the proper response by the engine. Caribou1 can shut down the EGR valve operation without the "Check Engine" light coming on to tell the state vehicle inspection station that he cheated and his emissions are high. He gets a few extra mpg that way. (or less liters per 100 kilometers)
(Caribou1, hope you don't mind my translating)
Caribou1 is a French mechanical engineer that works at the high energy particle accelerator in Switzerland (CERN). He knows his Libby in great detail and offers a unique perspective about what DC is doing outaide the US with diesels.

farout · May 2006

steve05: Eldon, Missouri. Use your dealer find on Jeep.com and the phone and address will be there, that way I am not making any host upset.

Farout

farout · May 2006

rkernbob: I believe there is a huge problem with the PCM. Everything you have said is where my CRD was until last week, when the dealer replaced the PCM. Now I shift into 5th lockup at 54mph. Odd when before it was not until 62mph it went into 5th. My fuel mpg has gone way up, and I will know more when I fill up next, but it has been 22mpg and last fill it was just 19mpg. This was a last ditch effort by the tec after STAR left him high and dry! Pleased to use the dealer I have.

Farout

nescosmo · May 2006

Whitgallman....The other day I drove my crd at about 53 or 54 and the tach was going from 1800 to 2100 rpm back and forth like going from 4th to 5th but the shifting was very smooth not noticeable at all. is this normal or my cpu have to be replaced. If I go over 54 5th lock in and drive is normal. (the 1800 and 2100 is for reference only, it could be less.)

farout · May 2006

nescosmo: If I understand you correctly, perhaps you were in 4th and going between 4th and 4th lock up. That would fit the rpm's you say you saw. That was typical before the changed my PCM. I never shifted to 5th lockup until 62mph, and then I would press "DEC" to get they rpm down to about 58 so it would stay in 5th lockup. The problem was the HWP will issue a ticket here in a lake area, they want things to go by the book. At times when a hill would come up the engine would speed up and I was doing close to 61 mph. Now it stays right at the 54 to 55 mph which is so much better we can hardly believe this is the same CRD. Hope this helps.

Farout.

farout · May 2006

This Saturday, June 3rd (in our central time zone) PBS's MOTOR WEEK will have the final review of the 2005 CRD they have had for the LONG TERM ROAD TEST. I have followed this CRD test when it first started, and thought some might want to watch the final review. I sure hope it gets a great review.

Farout

crdblazr · May 2006

rkernbob, Farout -

What specific problems did you report to your dealer to get them to replace the PCM? I suspect that my Liberty could use the same thing. My 5th lockup doesn't normally occur until 65 mph.

Mileage has been a consistent 19-20 mpg in mixed city/hwy driving for every tank over the 3,000 miles I've had it. A couple of weeks ago the dealer replaced the torque converter, but it hasn't changed the shift points or mileage. No real difference from what I can tell.

CRDblazr

farout · May 2006

rkernbob: Well from day one the cruse control would jump out at a small dip in the road. I knew this was not right as I traded in a 2005 Liberty Limited in on this CRD, and is was no way even close to the gas cruse control. I also knew that 62 mph was to many rpms for 5th lock up to get into. The very poor fuel mileage of 22 mpg was just not right when we drove it so consertaively. If I towed a 12 " trailer 22 mpg. If I drove hard 22 mpg. No matter what we did, even with cetane booster, anti-gell/cetane increaser nothing helped. The engine would start jerking, and the only way to stop it was to take it down to 3rd and rev up to 4,000 rpm and hold it there for a minute or so. This just was no way going to fly with me or Curt the Tec. I am so glad for a real ***** dealer. I have had excellent cooperation from the service manager as well. With this winning combination we were able to solve this, but I add it was the final effort, and the last resort to change the PCM. They feel it was a bad chip inside.
So my thinking is many of the CRD problems may really be in the PCM, not the trans, or engine. I am real ignorant about how all this works together, but it seems to have got mine in the shape it should have been from the first. Hope this helps.

Farout

Jeep Liberty Diesel

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