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Farout, I am not an expert on biodiesel, I simply have done a lot of reading. My understanding is that properly made biodiesel is fine for about 6 months and then gradually goes stale til it's fairly bad after 12 months. My understanding is that petrodiesel has virtually identical storage properties unless it is stabilized with additives (which is not automatic for commercial fuel).
I do not personally know any long-haul truckers but I strongly suspect that they buy whatever is cheapest, which only rarely is B20, since they use huge amounts of fuel and have a low profit margin. If anyone on here is a trucker, I'd like to know what you think! The large engines in semis seem less picky about fuel quality than small diesels like our CRD (or VW TDI).
I personally think that B20 is just fine if the biodiesel portion is made properly. Unfortunately I can't tell you how to ensure that the biodiesel portion is made properly. You can quiz the retailer on where they get it and what their quality tests are. They should know, and if they don't you might want to hesitate.
One thing to keep in mind is that problems caused by bad fuel are not covered by the engine warranty regardless of whether they involve petrodiesel or biodiesel. However, the retailer who sold you bad fuel is generally liable for any damage caused by it. I keep all my fuel receipts and buy from a limited number of stations (except when out of state when that's not an option). If I ever have fuel-related problems I will try to trace it to a particular supplier and take it up with them. I can't guarantee that this will work, but it's better than not keeping any records, I think.
Pure biodiesel (B99 or B100) is a good solvent that can loosen accumulated dirt and can damage seals made from natural or butyl rubber. Most diesels made since 1997 have seals made of other materials that won't be harmed. B20 or lower percentages does not have the same solvent properties and won't normally loosen up dirt to clog your fuel lines or filter.
Lastly, a lot of bus fleet operators are using B20 because it qualifies as an alternative fuel for air quality purposes. These operators pick one supplier, test their fuel for quality, and have thorogh records on their vehicle reliability. In fleets of school buses (including some here in Michigan - St. Johns) and in city buses B20 has been shown to have no problems relative to petrodiesel when the fuel quality is correct.
There is a ton of reading on www.biodiesel.org, which is where I found much of the information that I "know."
As to using biodiesel over B5 concentration, the engine in our CRD will run properly and without damage on B20. DCX's problem is that the lack of consistent quality of the biodiesel so they are limiting us to B5. One more note about biodiesel. In the EU, the source of the majority their biodiesel is from rapeseed. It has somewhat different characteristics from our soybean based product.
The more I research this engine, the happier I am with it. People from Europe who I have spoken with know VM Motori quite well. They have a very,very, good reputation over there and are exceedingly reliable. This is a very stoutly built engine. As long as you maintain the engine properly, and use good quality fuel, lubricants and additives, 250+K miles is not out of the question. The question is, what about the rest of the Jeep.
Without the subsidies, you are probably looking at about $2.90/gallon. :surprise:
Economists are still debating the extent to which oil is subsidized by the defense budget.
tidester, host
Farout
Quotes from The Omnivore's Dilemma. Interesting read.
Steve, Host
I noticed this AM when I went to get the mail, that the engine was much more quiet than normal. Maybe it's the 93f temperature it likes better. ( I do not like 93 degrees and 80% humidity) What ever it is the engine is doing real darn good after the PCM was changed. Maybe now if I tried a cetain booster it might do something I could actually notice. I had to add a quart od 5-40 Rotella, as it took 6,000 miles to be down a quart compared to 2,800 miles when it was new. But I could sell the oil for black paint, and that's what it's supposed to look like.
I continue to check for codes with the on and off with the key ignition, it still says donE, so that's cool.
What size tires do you have? I have GoodYear Wrangler Silent Armor 245 70 16 T. They are a wider tire and intended for gravel/dirt roads and work well in snow and fairly well on ice. (I have never had to drive on ice yet) Maybe the wider heavy tires might effect the MPG?
Farout
Farout
Steve, Host
Cargill has chicken, trukey, and pork growers by the hundreds here. As well Tyson, which does most if not all of WalMart's chicken, pork, and beef too.
Can you remember a movie titled Solent Green? Ever wonder whats in WalMarts hamberger? Beef parts are still beef, think about it.
Farout
Sort of like buying OEM parts versus getting a stamped fender from some counterfeit operation (how's that for trying to keep barely topical on the weekend?).
Oh, interesting post/link about CR and their Liberty gas mileage (I guess I mean the diesel mileage):
avrguy73, "Toyota RAV4 2006+" #3812, 10 Jun 2006 4:14 pm.
Steve, Host
My second inquiry is that I never get the glow plug light when starting my CRD. I wait for all the lites to go out but none of them is the squiggly thing shown in the manual. Is it possible that due to high heat in Vegas, we don't need to wait for the glow plugs to kick in? We have a Chevy diesel truck so I am not totally new at diesels, although I probably sound like it. Thanks. :confuse:
As far as the gas you had about a 5% mixture at the beginning and less as you refueled. I think you should be OK. The "lurch" could be the infamous "shudder".
My cousin did that to a U-Haul once. We would refuel every 100 mi or so and it seemed to run OK. The gas stations really should pay attention. BP stations in our area have black for diesel and yellow for gas, a non-standard they should reconsider.
It is true I did the math and by my calculations,you were right !
27mpg..
497 miles,with 18.4 gal.U.S in the tank.
My mistake is I read the OH.console ,but didn't realize it goes down in tight traffic in town.
Luckily most of my commutes are hiway,so my figures are skewed.
I have gotten better mileage in the past, I must say,but unlike some meticulous people who record their mileage I haven't.
Lately on Tuesday and Wednesday leaving work I noticed on the hiway the OH,console peaked at 35mpg at 61mph,on cruise.I was laughing..
probably due to the recent oil change,and K&N air filter change.
That 'll bring my average mpg's, up.. over a tank full,
I'll let you know how I faired.
I am a bit dissapointed as well, about DCX dropping the 2.8L diesel in the Libby.
I did let the marketing boys know across the river at DCX headquarters that This vehicle was an exceptional performer,and that I was hoping we could come out with more ,as these are competitive times.
I think there is another diesel in the works though ,as rumour has it the Asian companies will also start selling their diesel vehicles here in North America as well.
And with pressure like that, It is possible that they'll re-introduce the option again.
Zachinmi ..Which Fuel stations do you fill up at in Michigan to get your Bio-Diesel??
I am thinking of trying the fuel out.
I commute through Detroit periodically,up to pontiac and northern Michigan,from Windsor,Canada.
Any info is appreciated.
Thanks guys
Lightnin3...
With a good formal table like this, some of us could fortell when problems might happen or we could guess when DC made corrections that we might ask for OR we could make our case for a class settlement.
Keeping a FAQ board would be another option.
Maybe someone could maintain a table on their CarSpace page?
Steve, Host
Farout
Farout
Farout, can you list the exact procedure for doing this? Do you have a list that cross-references the code with the problem?
thx!
Twocycle2
Turn you ignition key on and off four times and on the fifth stop with it in the on position. This must be done rather quickly. Do not start the engine. Under normal conditions where the speedometer miles driven are located it will "donE" if there is no codes. If there is a code you can go to www.3800pro.com/lists/obd2codes.html
or just call your dealer to tell you what the code means. This is not unique to Jeeps, all DCX vehicles have this code check. Hope this helps. Any problems write back.
Farout
have 12,000 miles on my crd. looks like i am supposed to change the front and rear differential fluid. this seems like very little mileage for this service. is this correct?
Follow up to Ethom4321:
I changed the fluid in both differentials for the first time this morning (22k miles) and it took 1 hour and 20 minutes, start to finish. The fluid in the front diff was surprisingly dirty and dark given that it does not get used much - mostly just goes along for the ride. The drain plug was very loose, not even snug, but apparently does not need to be very tight since it has an o-ring.
The fluid in the rear diff was relatively clean apparently due to a magnet embedded in the bottom of the gear case. There was a fuzzy layer of metal on the magnet which is okay if it has mostly stopped. The original machining marks are not worn off the ring gear, yet. Side case gears and shaft could be a little tighter. Rear cover is indeed sealed with red RTV. Machine marks on mating surface of diff housing look to require a sealer even if a gasket is used.
Given the magnet and how clean the fluid was, I think I will use a suction pump next time or two rather than pull off the cover. Also, some good news to hands-on people, the side case bearings appear to be preloaded with adjustable collars (requiring a special spanner) rather than using time consuming shims.
Also, at 55 mph (90 kph) with the cruise set and climbing a hill, the transmission doesn't seem to know which gear to shift to resulting in several repeated up/ down shifts -this only appears to happen at this particular speed. Has anyone else had this problem?
When the transmission shifts from 4th to 5th gear the RPM drops from 1900 to 1700 at around 60 mph. Cruise is worthless in hilly terrain at 55 mph unless you turn off the overdrives (4th and 5th) using the button on the gearshift. Right before a big hill push the button and turn off the overdrives to lock the tranny in 3rd gear. When you go over the top of the hill turn the overdrives back on or just leave it in 3rd if there is another hill right away. You will do just as good or better on fuel without the transmission constantly hunting for a gear and the transmission will last longer. This is not the only vehicle that hunts for the right gear under this condition.
Or, you can turn off the cruise and just drive. That usually gives me the best mileage in the hills at 55 mph.
In the 85-90 range the shift points are too close to work with cruise on an incline. The whole system becomes unstable and oscillates!
Mileage (by the tank method) has averaged 21-22 miles per gallon. The best mileage was achieved on a 200 mile 61 mph jaunt (25.4 mpg). I'm certain it can do better but the area in which we live and my right foot does not allow it.
This Thursday I take my jeep in for the THIRD time to assess/address the same problem.
Here are the error codes:
P 0110
P 0299
P 0410
Astute owners/researchers will note that this is an air flow problem affiliated with the turbo.
Per this discussion board, I tightened all of the hose clamps (6k miles) and replaced the air filter at 6,12 & 18,000 miles.
It seams to handle pretty much like it has always handled except that the check engine light has been on for 6+ weeks. The last time I took it in for service, it didn't even it make it down the alley-way before the check-engine light came back on :mad: If it weren't after hours and I hadn't already dropped off the loaner keys, I would have left it.
The one handling issue that I have noted is that is that the engine will get "lost" on a rolling stop followed by acceleration. It really lunges bad and will belch out nice black smoke out the back. Blowing its nose does not help. 90-95% of all of the mileage was done with a premium blend of B2 or B5 Soy Biodiesel.
Is there anything else I should look for before I take 'er back into the shop this Thursday? Or anything else I should do? BTW, P 0110 will come on AFTER the other two codes.
Thanks,
Scott
I have to reach 97 Km/h in 4th under no load to catch the 5th gear.
I can stay in 4th until I run out of fuel if I don't reach 97! The nice counterpart is that my 4th gear will remain locked down
to 1400 rpm, until the truck starts to shiver. Thank you for behaving like a diesel, my forgotten egr!
There is no secret, if you huff and puff black smoke it's the valve again.
The error codes you posted are related to air flow + temperature. When the valve is stuck open too much exhaust mixes with the intake air, the temperature goes up and there isn't enough oxygen to burn the fuel completely.
Out here you're caught to pay 600 Euros or get your hands dirty. The 'nose bleeding' as I called it a long time ago comes from the local 'Road Angels' who do emergency service on the european diesels.
Saturday I heard from a relative working in a Renault factory that the normal life expectancy of an EGR is 30,000 Km (20,000 miles). What do want to do about it?
It's a simple dilemma: clean it or change it :sick:
Concerning the "rolling stop", the transmission doesn't downshift if you don't reduce the speed enough. I'm sure it's a safety feature developed by the police.
In exchange for the farmer compliance, the Government subsidizes the bushel of Corn that the farmer does produce.
Now keep in mind all this interference by the Government, and does the realization large quantities of Bio fuels really make sense that they will be made available? Not really!
Why?
Think of a large shift in Corn feed going to Corn fuel. Now think how much your staple meats poultry and beef will cost you.
Two things the government has to do to prevent Anarchy. Cheap fuel and Cheap food.
Steve, Host
1.Turn key on and off. 2.Turn key on and off. 3.Turn key on and off. 4.Turn key on and off. 5.Turn on and keep the switch on. Within a few seconds either donE or a code will show where the miles or Km's driven show below the speedometer.
When I do this if I don't get it done quick enough nothing will happen. Then I wait about 5 min. to try again. Try this and tell me how it works.
Farout
Farout
Farout
When differentials are assembled the pinion and the side case bearings are preloaded under considerable force. The bearings, the pinion gear and the ring gear "run-in" over time. The mating surfaces become nice and smooth and wear slows dramatically but not totally.
The first fluid change gets rid of the break-in metal particles and probably should be done very early. After that, it really depends on usage. On my V8 Dakota the recommendation was to change to synthetic if towing at capacity for a distance of more than 50 miles. The frequency was 12k miles if towing and 24k miles if not towing - which is what I followed, mostly.
The CRD is a heavier vehicle with an engine that can throw a lot of low speed torque at the differential(s) especially if you have a heavy foot. I think this is why the recommendation is every 12k miles.
Anyway, the indication that I got from changing fluid at 22k miles was that the front differential should have been changed sooner. 12k miles was probably about right. The rear diff on the other hand was probably okay to change and 24k miles given that I don't do much towing right now with the Liberty and there is a magnet in the rear housing to clear out the metal particles.
All those steep hills in central MO are a good argument for 12k changes even if not towing. Load creates wear and wear puts metal particles in the fluid but not nearly so much as the first change. If there is a lot of metal in the fluid each change, the diff is probably not going to last a very long time.
Another reason to change the diff fluids early is if the vehicle is driven through water as deep as the differentials. A hot diff can suck water past the seals and the fluid must be changed.
Final point, if you go with synthetic, I have to believe that there is less heat and less wear and the change interval can be extended to maybe twice as long or longer. If you have the dealer change your fluid, have your good service tech give you his opinion on the quality of the fluid that is removed.
Nope, I said "a" Liberty, not "your" Liberty. Gotta watch for my weasel language. :shades:
I'm assuming many of y'all want to get away from gas since you're posting about your CRDs ... well, ethanol would be another alternative down the road with the appropriate engine and fuel system, although it may not offer the towing ability and longevitity that diesel use implies.
Steve, Host
I still can't get mine into 5th until I'm at 65 mph (105 kph). What have others experienced here?