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Comments
The Opel ECO Speedster (sponsored by Mobile 1)
Opel Powertrain GMBH
112 Horse Power inline diesel powerplant
0-60mph in 3.6 seconds
155mph top speed (250kph)
113-145 Miles per gallon !!
24 Hour test run covering 2500 miles, running on 100% biodiesel, averaging 140mph, and yielding 113mpg overall.
Check it out
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/future-car/future-car.html
I'm sure some of you have heard this before, here are the facts that determine which is better for the long haul:
1 gallon of E-85 (fuel containing 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline) has an energy content of 80,000 Btu — compared with about 118,000 Btu for a gallon of gas....... Here we loose over 30% of the potential energy just by deluting it with 85% of natural products, and we are still stuck using unreplaceable fuels.
A gallon of Petrol Diesel yields 139,000 BTU versus 132,000 from 100% grown from the sun Biodiesel, not just 85% natural products.....
Here we have a loss of 6% in power and we are using a 100% natural solution that provides much better gas mileage than unleaded due to the amount of torque it can provide in a really large gear, making the engine work much less. Biodiesel is much easier to make, you can do it yourself in your backyard using a vegetable press machine.
One last thing, if you ever need to go get an emission test done on your diesel, and you have already taken off you catalytic converter, go buy a couple of gallons of vegetable oil from the grocery store and put it in on an empty tank and they will find ZERO emmissions when they put it on the machine, and on your way there you may notice it runs quieter, smells better, and has a bit more power only because there is 87% less heat and friction on the engine.
Seems obvious to me which way it should be going....
People in the automobile business know each other in an area of 100 miles. They are usually of the same age for a given size of dealership, will parade saying they 'got' a customer from competion and quietly put you down on a black list when you cause prejudice to their image.
I, for example, am concerned with a ball joint recall: I didn't get any mail information from Jeep! I was just lucky (or well inspired) to be curious if not vicious during my wheel rotations and drivetrain inspections I religiously do every 5,000 miles. I phoned the dealership to have the ball joints replaced and discovered I had been selected for the F23 recall that you had in mid 2006. It's time for DC to use emails with their overseas agencies. :mad:
Have you ever driven a vehicle expecting it's front end to dive into the asphalt? Seems unreal while driving in heavy trafic every day :sick:
When I entered this forum a year-and-a-half ago, I always tried to instill extreme wariness in folks about the product uniformity of biodiesel, because the cheap stuff is made from waste veg oil that is inherently highly non-uniform, batch-to-batch.
Aside from the possible rapid degradation of engine seals from even the best biodiesel or biodiesel blends- and the potential for warranty problems- I have little complaint about some zeal for the stuff. But, I'm still very reserved about folks with financial interests in it slinging it like snake oil. Apologies to those who aren't.
You might want to source a slightly used '06 CRD Limited and swap them. If I remember correctly, you have a sport. Make the service center you trust the most do a complete run through an the '06. You are VERY aware of what troubles to look for. Make them transfer your warranty plan.
Do this:
1.) Makes DCX take the depreciation hit
2.) Eliminates sales tax
3.) Gives you the vehicle you "hopefully" enjoy
4.) Keeps them a VERY loyal customer.
5.) Gives you stability control and slightly plusher rig (you'll have to find an '05 if you want Trac-Loc)
To me, this is VERY fair and probably overly so. Regarding Caribou's concern over lawyers, nobody said you had to tell them consulted legal resources. You've just done your due diligence. To think that DCX has not done their due diligence before talking to you our now no-handshake, litigious society would be a little naive.
Doesn't matter what I do in these situations, my wife always thinks I should be "meaner." Sometimes I threaten them with having to deal with her instead of me
One time, on an insurance claim, it worked. :surprise:
My $.02 & good luck being Farout
Boiler
One of the biggest challenges to auto makers today is how to make a diesel engine run on anything other than what it was evented to run on "plant oil". Using the waste from the unleaded gasoline refinement process creates extra soot in a diesel engine because this waste does not meet the flash point required for gasoline engines and is full of free radicals or broken/incomplete chemical structures, but it can still provide a sufficient pressure explosion in a diesel engine and they dont have to worry about disposing of that waste, why not just sell it to the public for their diesel engines? :confuse:
This is the same effect of using Propane in your diesel engine, yes it provides a big boost in power or even huge mpg increases of up to 10mpg but each valve rotation that receives a propane burst forces a bigger percentage, closer to 99% of the fuel in the chamber to explode including the extra lubricity on the cylinder walls that Diesel affords over a gas car thereby limiting the life of a diesel engine down to that of a gasoline engine. If you add additional thick fatty accid chains to the fuel you create an even thicker formula on the cylinder walls that only strengthen the seals and drastically cut the heat generated in the process because there is less explosion/friction directly on the metal surfaces.
Engineering a design to suite these fuels is much simplier than engineering a Hyrdo engine, or even an electric engine, simply put that many consumers without any experience could create their own heating system that prevents problems with this fuel in lower temps and it doesnt require a PHD. :shades:
Biodiesel manufacturing isnt the greatest thing discovered yet, but I support it because it uses 100% renewable sources. The problem is it still prevents consumers from having to be responsible for how and when they use these fuels, so in a sense it is a necessary evil. Take Ethanol, a very expensive much more complicated manufacturing process that uses close to 50% more crop to create the same amount of fuel. We should just get rid of the Gas engine that will never last as long as diesel because of the way it uses the fuel and the fuel it requires is obviously outdated.
Someone please take this soap box away before it gets my into trouble... Thanks for reading, Mike
Biodiesel vehicles
How much does biodiesel lessen pollution?
Wow this is good news! Take the buy out and run, an offer like this rare and you should grab it. I'm in the same boat but the dealer has offered 50% of what I paid 10 months ago, I paid list no rebates. The dealer has given up in trying to repair my vehicle and stated if I want more to contact DC direct. Thats why I want out, no support and the whole experience has been frustrating. So the dealer calls to get me into something else, what really do they have, nothing I want from C, so they own the BMW dealership and I'll take an X3, they can work a deal, but loosing 50% in 10 months is retarded. They have a vehicle that can not be repaired but still try to take advantage when a guy's at the end of his rope and they know it, a greasy dealership that makes me sick. I countered I won't accept a ridicolus offer like this, I'll keep it but they have to repair the outstanding issues, he looks at me and says, I'll get back to you with something better. The CRD scares them. How and who do I call to get some external pressure put on this situation? Any advice from you will help. Thanks.
Now after going over the Schedule B which NO ONE can say they are a Schedule A, the cost if taken to a DCX dealer it would cost $1200. in the first 25,000 miles. This is plane outrageous! Not to mention we have been to the dealer 23 times and only two times ago did a service writer mention that our drive line warranty was void because= we are not keeping up proper upkeep.
Our service manager said DCX is really asking for service history on many vehicles. If the dealer can't prove the schedule was adhered to then they don't pay. This is in my opinion because DCX is experiencing a change in how things are done. Heck we have a Max Care 5 year 100,00 mile warranty Service Contract that means not much unless you spend bucks that seem to me as over due stuff.
I think we are considering a Patroit or a Compass AWD. We really feel drained and worn out with this. We are holding tough and will agree to nothing less than we come out for the better or even, or they must repair it 100%. Good luck.
Farout.
Glow plug suggestion sounds reasonable.
Farout, there is a drain plug on the front differential. On the rear the plate needs to be removed or a suction device needs to be used to suck out the old oil through the filler hole. The best way is to remove the plate to make sure it is clean and inspect the internal parts. I use any reasonably priced synthetic gear oil.
The first differential oil change should be done fairly early. After that, if the differential is broken in properly, no water gets in the oil and the oil hasn't been extremely hot it's pretty much the shelf life of the oil without heavy use.
Farout
The green beast has been good to you but the jerking can be air in the fuel or water in the filter, somebody can help you to do that; I wish that i could, well without you and the inmeasureable help that you have provide us life will be hard around here hope you stop sometime and talk to us like tire old dave, wish you that everything come well for your.
http://www.troublecodes.net/OBD2/Pcodes.shtml
P1252 Pedal Correlation PDS1 and LPDS High
P1253 Pedal Correlation PDS1 and LPDS Low
P1254 Pedal Correlation PDS2 and LPDS High
P1255 Pedal Correlation PDS2 and LPDS Low
P1256 Pedal Correlation PDS1 and HPDS
P1257 Pedal Correlation PDS2 and HPDS
P1258 Pedal Correlation PDS1 and PDS2
http://www.tceq.state.tx.us/assets/public/implementation/air/ms/IM/OBD%20final%2- 0report.TCEQ_0196_12.pdf
P1256 seems to be specific to diesel systems.
Pedal Correlation PDS1 and HPDS is meaningless in all languages I came across.
Our CRD has 38 items replaced, or repaired. We have driven 2,280 miles going to and from the dealer for these repairs. Four of these repairs have been done over 5 times and still need to be fixed again. The fuel gage sending unit has been replaced 5 times and now this latest one gets stuck at 3/4 full. The jerkiness in the engine is more often now, and the cruise control continues to do it's own thing. My wife and I are worn out, with we "can't duplicate
the problem". But at least DCX is saying they agree we need some kind of resolution. Will let you know if and when this gets resolved.
We have not been officially told what DCX is going to offer, but we were told less than an hour ago we would know by perhaps tommrow. or Tues at the latest. We have driven all of the 4x4's that DCX sells, that gets good mpg. We have selected the Patriot "4x4" but it is more like a AWD that can be put in FWD and then made into AWD. This has all the room we need, and will get us up and down the hill in the winter. The Patriot does not do much pulling. But we don't need that, and if we did I would ask our son to use his Chevy truck.
Diesel is $2.50 a gallon here and gas is $2.15 diesel has stayed about 40 cents more from the time we got it. Most stations have the ULSD but there are still some that carry the old diesel, but it is higher here like $2.60. I don't know why.
Farout
Your story is unreal. I would have burned the dealership to the ground by now and had the service manager and his diesel tech drawn and quartered. Your treatment by this dealer is in my view totally beyond unacceptable. I wonder if they ever did the work they claim they did? Sounds like they never did. At least DCX is trying to be helpful.
My CRD continues to do well and has been trundelling right along with nary a hiccough or a burp. Have about 17.5K on it now and the engine has really settled down quite a bit. It idles very smoothly and from the outside is nearly noiseless at idle. On the highway it moves along nicely but I do on occasion miss that little bit of torque that the F37 recall took away. The trans is smooth but seems a little busier than before the F37 recall. It is harder to "lug" in top gear and readily releases the TC clutch when there is a hint of lugging. FE continues to climb but more slowly.
Diesel fuel here varies from 2.499 to 2.71.9 per gallon. I am using ULSD exclusively with a touch of cetane improver and a touch of detergent, both from Amsoil. I am using a "CJ" rated oil from Amsoil. Very nice stuff.
I wish you the best of luck with your new vehicle, whatever it might be.
Wisdom tells us to be wise as a fox and let the District Rep find that we have been more than patient, and deserve to be relieved from this whole mess.
We are firm, either the Green Beast is totally fixed, or bought back very soon! We have not made endless demands, but there has been pressure from the number of times we have endured so many trips, to have the same problems fixed and repeated again and again. This has been on going for nearly 30,000 miles. Someone has to take responsibility, and it's not a pretty sight, or testimony, for a Five Star dealer.
This all started with the factory put the inner cooler hose on with pressure clamps and not the screw on clamps. This resulted in oil leaking oil, creating a real mess. Besides rushing these CRD vehicles into production, DCX surely made some mistakes. I have said for some time that we all are "test market" buyers. None of us was made aware we bought a Jeep CRD that was an "experiment" as Dr. Z has called us CRD buyers. No one who bought a CRD was told what those in DCX Headquarters knew all of the time. DCX used our loyal trust in Jeep vehicles, to lure us into a false sense of trust that these CRD's made for the US, were a proven, and on going diesel production vehicle that would be available into the end of the decade.
We have said to everyone at DCX that what we want is to be treated fairly. We have been loyal customer to Chrysler for many years, we expect to be shown some gartutide for our loyalty. We hope this makes DCX see that we deserve to be relieved of this vehicle, and to allow us to purchase a Jeep Patriot in it's place. We pray we will be treated fairly.
Farout
Feel free to add your own to the growing list.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Unofficial information concerning the future and reliability of the recent Liberty diesel is not good. I will be sticking to mine but definitely not be buying a recent model.
The manual shifter seems not to satisfy people because the knee protection panel (under the steering) hurts the leg of the driver after a few pushes on the clutch in heavy traffic. Tight maneuvers take more attention because the common rail engine stalls easily.
The new EGR system you have is considered a pest.
The F37 recall gives you the torque I have on my 'old' truck. There is a different (conservative) mapping of the ECU that does not allow using the potential of the early pressure build up of the variable vanes turbo. This 'de-rating' is done to prolong ate the life of the viscous coupler that doesn't support driving at low speed when the torque is high! There are fewer problems for fast drivers :sick:
The 60,000 miles inspection costs more than 1,300 USD! I think I will do this myself.
Most of this sad situation comes from the automobile press that compares the RAV, the CRV, X-Trail, Subarus and other 'all road' vehicles within the same category. The production of the Liberty could stop in 2008 because of pollution standards that become more political than needed. If you don't want to sink with the ship, leave board asap :surprise:
As Captain of the ship, Green Beast I order "abandon ship"! Either that or add some real tough air floats to keep this boat afloat.
Farout
I've looked at VM Motori's website, and it looks like they use their engines in other DCX products in Europe as well as products from other manufactures. Have you heard anything about those applications? Are people experiencing the same types of issues in those products, or is this more isolated to the vehicles used in the US? I still think some of the problems here are because of the lower quality fuel we have, and simply a lack of knowledge at the dealership level about these vehicles. With the exception of VW, the only diesels the dealers have dealt with in the US have been in full-size trucks, and even then, it took a few yrs for the techs to figure out what they were doing. When the new Toyota Camry came out last year, they were having transmission problems in some of them....but with over 100,000 on the road, it didn't take long for the dealers to become educated in how to fix them. For us, there are less than 12,000 spread across the entire US....the learning curve is very slow. I'm just curious how the VM Motori engines are doing in Europe.
Twocycle2
A bad dealer is ugly enough but a company that does not penalize said dealer is worse. Unfortunately, the domestic automotive industry is sales driven and not quality or innovation driven. Service by dealers for any manufacturer ranges from really good to really bad. Unfortunately you got stuck at the bad end.
I do have some concern for you purchasing a Patriot. The engine, either the 2.0 liter or the 2.4 liter is not an American creation. DCX, Hyundai and one or two other companies had their fingers in it so it is hard to say what the long term prognosis is for it. :surprise:
Your assessment for the future reliability of the CRD is not heartening. The issue with the F37 recall not only saves the torque converter clutch but other components in the transmission.
I have found a company in Texas that specializes in the RFE545 transmission. They rebuild them to tolerate all sorts of torque and horsepower and you can purchase a torque converter from them that is free of plastic, has either Kevlar or Carbon Fiber facing on the clutch and has brazed turbine fins. There is also a kit from Transgo that eliminates many of the issues that come in RFE545 and it costs less than 50 USD. I will also bee adding a trans oil cooler to boot.
On the engine side, I expect the EGR to be a problem, thus an extended warranty is in place that does cover this. I will be purchasing a device to restore the lost torque and add a bit more in the next few months. I am researching this as I have time.
The VM engine is a jewel of technology just like many others today who use common 'sub-assemblies' that you can purchase from all around the world.
If you decide to manufacture a certain type of engine or simply a module that performs a specific task, to make money you will need adapted tools and machines. The manufacturers of these machines or tools provide their customers with the best sequences of operations, etc... to satisfy the market they aim. So, whether the customer's name is PSA, VM, DC, VW, it's very often a shared method of production because the machines or tools are produced by only a few engineers that evolve simultaneously. I was in that field 25 years ago.
To answer your question about shared issues, it's YES
What's killing the Liberty, called Cherokee here, is the press that refuses to differentiate between a true 4x4 and an allroad station wagon. There is a 'reducting' tendency to assimilate people to political parties and the cost of an object to the image it's owner can expect. So the new Jeeps with the small diesel engine should produce the same effect I was told. I stayed 3 hours between showroom and shop waiting for my front end to be repaired. Customers did mention a budget while discussing with the salesmen, so they are formatted this way.
BTW the new Jeep Compass' manual gearbox cracks when engaging reverse. The Audi A4 Quattro station wagon sells for practically the same price and is fully synchromeshed :shades:
I was explained it's the sceptum plate of the torque converter that vibrates and breaks loose by fatigue; it's not the gearbox itself.
Braised fins would be best in this case.
This deterioration happens mainly to people driving long distances at 1800 rpm!
I was also told to stay away from power chips or different mapping values of my ECU. They all seem to bring associated problems.
I don't pull a trailer but I sometimes pull trees, large ones also. My engine cannot develop more than 2000 rpm under full load in LO-Mode. Some trees are 50 to 60 feet (40 year old pine trees and birch as well). Do you sometimes need the full power from your rig? I wonder what the tuning chips could bring in such a case? I'm bluffed by the traction I get with the BFGs and the momentum I can achieve with such loads. My grandson says: "grand' pa plays with his 4x4" :shades:
Europeans have more alternatives. In the US right now the Liberty CRD is a Goldie Locks diesel. It's not too big, it's not too small - it's just right. I researched diesels before I bought the CRD and I fully expected it to quit on me by now and it has not (knock on forehead). It drives and shifts perfect and for now will not be getting the F37 recall - maybe later. I am grateful to those who did and posted their results.
I did feel better when the guy behind me inline with his Hemi RAM pickup has many error code problems too, so it's not just the CRD's but DCX gas powered cars too. DCX just needs new programers.
On this note I turned over 36,000 on the way home from the dealer, it least the problem was noted before the first round of warranty runs out, the dealer left the work order open.
I'm getting 24.66 MPG after the F37 which is about the same as before 24.3 MPG. In a few weeks I will be able to tow my camper to see what effect the F37 did on this...
We live too live in the same kind of danger in our area. We have had some of those huge suckers within 4 miles of our home, it is a trauma I pray will never come upon us. God bless you friend.
Farout
The engine sounds ok, no racing, just typical down shift going up. If they had a co-piolet that would might pin point the root of the problem. Could this be the "nut behind the wheel?"
Farout
Here is mine.
@ 55 mph = 1700 rpm (5th lock up just kicks in)
@ 60 mph = 1900 rpm
@ 65 mph = 2050 rpm
Here is his.
@ 63 mph = 1800 rpm
@ 66 mph = 1900 rpm
would please post yours so we might see who is more accurate? Thanks a lot.
Farout
I do not tow anything save for myself, the wife, and a few cats.
Power chips, as I like to call them, if setup properly do work well and produce no ill effects, so I have been told. The power chip I intend to purchase will add only about 30 - 40 lb-ft of torque and about ten to fifteen horsepower. I am by no means looking for monster power increases. I am also looking at power chips that do not leave any footprint in the PCM or TCM.
Performance Automotive and Transmission Center, Dodge City, TX
1-888-877-1008
I spoke to them some many months ago about the trans in the CRD. At that point they had not addressed the trans in our CRD but by now, they might have.
As for the torque converter, cost is 450 USD. Has carbon fiber clutch, furnace brazed fins and all bearing construction. Stall speeds vary from 1600 to 3400 RPM and vary by 200 RPM increments.
Hope this helps.
As for the engine, I am not to concerned. It is physically a very good engine and like anything made by humans, it is not perfect. It is the electronics and software that bother me more. Too much of that but so far so good. As for the trans, it is the torque converter that is the weak link. DCX, being like all other manufacturers, decided to use what was available instead of putting in an upgraded part. A run of 11K vehicles was too small to consider building an upgraded part. Thus, F37 which slightly screwed us out of 20 lb-ft or six percent of what we paid for.
I was going to hold off on the F37 like you are. The trans worked fine but occasionally did protest when lugged at 1800 RPM or less by bucking a bit on rare occasions. The one real benefit I noted with F37 was an increase in FE of slightly more than one MPG.
Funny you should mention this. The same thing happens here in the States. The Liberty gets dinged for being too truck like and for being too uncivilized on the street because it rides so firmly and handles so sloppily. Funny thing is that you see tons of them in the metro D.C. area. I have seen front ends self destruct on the more civilized baby SUVs after hitting a curb straight on or hitting a nasty pot hole.
A) Hard acceleration up an on-ramp to highway speed then letting off the pedal and setting the cruise almost always produces jerking. The engine has to go from high fuel flow, high turbo speed and no EGR flow to low fuel flow, low turbo speed and high EGR flow almost immediately while the sensors are chasing conditions. This all happens while up shifting with the electronic cruise control dicking with the fuel flow to establish moderate load and EGR flow. All the while the computer is reading a comedy of errors from sensors and a comic book stored in memory.
C) When I accelerate hard with overdrive off and run at speed for 5 or 6 seconds before turning overdrive on and setting the cruise there is never any jerking. This CRD just cannot handle abrupt and dramatic transitions because it takes time for everything to settle down to a new equilibrium. So I use B or C depending on traffic conditions and never get jerking.
I choose the SP diesel module because of the amount of options it has. 1-11 power modes, and a fuel economy mode and although I have only used 3 different ones there is a big different between them. Also in my experience there is no way that I know of, for a module to leave an imprint on the ECU. One thing I do if I go to the dealer is unplug the end piece from their respective sensors and put the original ECU plugs back on, and quickly disconnect the negative on the battery and reconnect. Even if they see the module box mounted on my dash they cant do anything, I had a dealer try once to void a warranty, needless to say he lost. I have an extended warranty that covers things even if the dealer wont, so Im not too worried, also you may notice extended warranty companies dont have a void your warranty policy, at least that I have seen.
Diesel modules are well worth the investment, as long as you know WHAT you want to use it for. Also make sure you get a module designed for diesel only, forget all those other Ebay modules for the "Liberty" anything under $300 is only for unleaded Libertys and really dont do anything worth mentioning.
my 2 cents
I personally use the cheapest oil with the right SAE rating and then add Muscle Products to all my oil, diff, tranny, engine, and the only thing I dont put it in is the break fluid, because the MT-10 additive from Muscle Products removes friction by changing the chemical structure on the metal touching parts (something you dont want in your break fluid, trust me I have done it without thinking and it was fun getting back home, had to drain the whole system several times and later ended up replacing the brake cylinder). So needless to say I am high tech, but I also am very hard on moving parts, I have accepted this so I try to put more effort in helping those moving parts last longer under that type of wear.
Amsoil..... is highly recommended by lots of Jeep people who do all sorts of off road things, from what I have heard they know what works better because of the amount of things they have had to repair while on the trail. Other than that I wish you best of luck, and please, please make your own choice based on research, not just someone elses Opinion. The more research the more valid your choice.