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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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Comments

  • arvmanarvman Member Posts: 95
    Had the solenoid pack replaced friday,blew again today.truck still runs half decent and pretty good with overdrive off.service guy thinks it is wiring issue.guess these units are in short supply ,anyone heard of these problems on rams,cause they use the same trans.when it was fixed,what a difference nice firm shifts,nice while it lasted...
  • twocycle2twocycle2 Member Posts: 55
    Thank you all for the responses on the alternator pulley. I do now understand the logic behind why they build them this way. However, I don't think it is worth the price to add this unnecessary complication. The one link explained that the freewheel pulley is a part that is designed to wear and will require periodic replacement. Or, if you have to replace the alternator, that itself will cost you more than a standard alternator would. So tell me again what the benefit is? I've had numerous cars go 100k miles on the original alternator. In fact, I've only replaced one in my life and it cost about $250 for a GM pickup. I guess I just don't see the real life benefit of this freewheel pulley. And if the pulley is designed to wear out, nothing has been done to improve the reliability of the assembly....a repair will still have to be made.

    Twocycle2
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    I agree with you Twoccycle2. The more expensive freewheeling pulley is supposed to save the alternator. Yet, when the pulley fails it is unavailable unless one buys a new alternator and pulley together. The illogic of this is enough to freeze up the Enterprise computer and put Spock in a coma!

    There doesn’t seem to be wide spread failure of this part on the forums. The Denso alternator is made in Japan, thus it is pricey. There appears to be a lot of cars now running around with these pulleys, some supposedly dependable Japanese cars. A useful life of 90,000 kilometers is okay if the part is cheap and easy to change. It is easy to change, but is it cheap?

    Caribou1 found us an explanation and a manufacturer. We just need to find a place where we can buy it for a reasonable price. Thanks to this forum we have some lead time. Also, for those who don’t think they can live with this, there may be a solid pulley out there that could replace the freewheeling pulley and be done with it until the alternator fails early, maybe.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Siberia,
    If your memory survived all the topics we discussed here, when the "BATTERY/CHARGE" light comes ON you have to look for:
    - a defective freewheeling pulley
    - a loose belt
    - a defective alternator "FIELD" wire connection from the ECU
    - a defective ECU
    - a defective sensor causing an 'engine load' condition when the ECU should not charge the battery
    - a defective battery
    - a defective alternator (brushes, rectifiers, short in the coils, ball bearing, rotor to stator contact) :sick:

    Perhaps JEEP should pay us a salary for living with such a complicated outfit. I'm not sure every technician is happy to see one in his shop.

    A few years ago it took 5 minutes to give a clear diagnostic:
    - turn ON the headlights
    - start the engine
    - observe the glow of the headlights and listen
    + extinction and a 'clicking sound' == recharge / retest
    + close to extinction then engine starts == good battery bad charge
    + dimming while engine starts == OK
    + as above with no increase of illumination when engine turns == bad generator
    We didn't have to be engineers to do this, the man walking ahead of us with the warning lantern knew well enough :surprise:
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    :) Of course what you say is spot on and I am not sure that my referencing other makes and models that are running the same system with the same problems is a reasonable defense of needless complexity. My mother used to say, “If your friend Billy would jump off a bridge, would you do it too?”

    I am, perhaps, unforgivably impressed by the complexity of the accessory drive components: a clutch on the air conditioner compressor, a clutched viscous water “heater”, a clutched vacuum pump, a freewheeling alternator pulley and a fan viscous/temperature clutch. I guess I can forgive a complicated system that has a problem easier than I can forgive a simple system that has a problem. Or, do I need to just snap out of it and buy something simpler? ;)
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Near future will tell. Oil depletion and increasing demand for energy may put an end to this specific type of engine. This morning a German TV news correspondent related recent studies showing that chemicals used in the growth of canola for making biodiesel generate 3 times more NOx than normal agriculture.

    Once you understand the production drawbacks, our sophisticated emissions control systems look like plaster over a broken wooden leg (local saying) ;)

    E85 seems to be a more viable approach; we could even store ethanol for humans and machinery. :blush:
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    I just received a K&N 99-5003EU filter care service kit called "Recharger". You pay ~$10 for this kit, I had to pay 36 USD :confuse:

    Curious, I looked at the safety instructions and discovered the cleaning solution is an equivalent to a phosphate free non foaming liquid dishwasher detergent.

    Perhaps the more we will pay, the more in depth we will investigate and the more we will divulge... :shades:
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    Given the euro/dollar exchange rate your cost should have been more like $6.50 plus shipping.

    Two other companies have washable filters now, Fram and Amsoil. The Fram is some kind of modified cellulose and the amsoil is mostly polyester microfiber, I think. The Fram gets washed with regular dish soap and water, and I think that's also true for the Amsoil though I'm less sure with it. Neither one gets oiled. I saw a really good semi-scientific test of several air filters including paper and K&N on bobistheoilguy.com and it appears that a good paper filter removes more dirt than the tested K&N gauze filter and two different oiled-foam filters, while the difference in pressure drop across the filter, although measurable, is so tiny that it wouldn't make any difference in reality (think 0.1% hp gain from worst to best flowing). I'm going to keep using paper filters for now (I currently have NAPA Gold in my CRD and truck) and keep an eye on the Amsoil microfiber system, which seems to have the potential to filter better without more restriction than paper.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Zachinmi,
    I paid 29.00 CHF for the kit plus 12.00 CHF for parcel mail delivery. I won't complain because I had it delivered to my office the next day. Swiss mail is fantastic for that. Nevertheless it's far from $6.50 ;)

    Next week my CRD is getting its expensive service. I'm told 1,000 Euros is a standard cost for the 60,000 miles overall. I haven't done much off-road last year so I left the K&N in the air box during the summer. I never got better nor worse mileage; I simply use it because I have it.

    I agree for the higher quality of a good paper/celluloid filter. Have you noticed that incoming air flows mainly along 3 sides of the box? We could perhaps redistribute the flow by letting more air come in from a central distribution instead of the original lateral duct. In fact, a vertically mounted panel or cone filter element would have been ideal. If you must to go through deep water, you need two snorkels any way :P
  • synlubessynlubes Member Posts: 184
    the microfilber works extremely well has to be blown out often oid filters have all been discontinued general motors claiming the are wiping map sensors
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    My way of thinking:
    - K&N use a mixture of mineral and animal oils (written on their safety data sheet).
    - MAF sensors breathe the same air we breathe.
    - Cleaning of an oiled filter can be done with dishwasher detergent.
    - Then the intake MAF sensor can go directly into the dishwasher.

    What do you think?
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    1) I used a K&N air filter in a 2001 Honda Accord I used to own and did not experience any negative effects. I didn't have the car and filter long enough to have ever cleaned and re-oiled the filter though.

    2) While I see no reason you shouldn't be able to clean a MAF sensor, I'm under the impression that most of them use a thin heated wire that is easy to damage or break. Dishwasher liquid is caustic and may damage the metal wire. If you used regular dish soap you might be OK.

    3) While I was interested in K&N enough to try one out, after reading the test on bobistheoilguy I don't see any reason I'll ever be using one again. They probably aren't harmful if you want to use one, but the benefit is low to nil, especially if your time is more valuable than to spend washing, drying and re-oiling gauze filters. I'll probably stick with paper, and if I don't I would most likely use the new Amsoil microfiber filter, not because I think the airflow will make any difference in my vehicle's hp or mpg, but because it might actually filter the air better and therefore help to reduce engine wear.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Then the intake MAF sensor can go directly into the dishwasher.

    What do you think?


    I think you must not be married, lol.

    I wash stuff like ball caps in mine, so a little motor oil may be ok. Probably wouldn't hurt to run an empty load afterwards using a cup of white vinegar if you decide to test this out.
  • synlubessynlubes Member Posts: 184
    the nanofiber filter is used in the the ford power sroke diesels and the abriam tanks in iraq ford puts a plastic cover over theres so you cant blow it out
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    The "Donaldson TopSpin™ Pre-Cleaner" seems quite nice for sand. Publicity says most particles above 20 microns are trapped. But these particles are normally used by the filter material to increase the surface and make a better "barrier" to hold back the incoming dust. Finer particles might will not see the cotton gauze :confuse: :confuse:
  • synlubessynlubes Member Posts: 184
    as always you are right
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Synlubes, many years ago I met one of the engineers who worked on the engine sand filters used on Apache helicopters. These guys know the proper way to do things, we are just guessing :(
    Some countries have to face sand storms and do emergency landings. I only have to deal with pollen :blush:
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    As an aside, the 1986 VW Vanagon Synchro (all wheel drive, tall suspension) had a centrifugal-type dust separator in the intake tract before the air filter. My dad owned one of these for about 15 years and was always pleasantly amazed at the amount of sand trapped in the sand pre-filter and the lack of dirt showing in the regular air filter. And he lived in Las Vegas for 10 of those 15 years. He has always been puzzled why no one else seems to put a comparable centrifugal sand separator in the intake tract of anything else, since it seems like the cost would be tiny and the benefit large.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Zachinmi, during the "Flower Power" days VW busses were known to die along desert roads... The dust separator you mention could be VW's response to their reputation ;)
  • jack94jack94 Member Posts: 2
    I've been considering purchacing a used CRD. It appears that there are many lemons out there. I am concerned and may not go for it. How bad are they?
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    I think your best answer is to read through the whole forum and make up your own mind.

    Some things I would consider:
    -are you willing to disconnect the EGR valve? This creates half the problems noted, but in the US it's illegal to disconnect if you will drive on public roads (hence the "ORM").
    -are you easily ticked off by having to make a few repairs? Don't bet on the same trouble-free experience likely of a Toyota Camry.
    -are you able to do work yourself or dependent on a dealer/mechanic?
    -are you looking at one that either is a 2005 with remaining time on the 7/70 powertrain warranty, or something that will have an extended warranty giving you coverage?
    -are you really interested in having a diesel for cool factor and its torque, or do you just want reliable transportation? You have to be in the first category to want a CRD.
  • 05crdjeep05crdjeep Member Posts: 59
    jack94,
    I'd add a couple considerations for you, based on my experience (a focus group of one). I have found this forum to be of immense value when I have had problems since the dealer doesn't see enough of these CRDs to realize a pattern of problems when one crops up. The forum has been great for getting information to ask my dealer to check different things and head off any issues. On the other hand, the folks that have found their way here are more likely to have had problems with their vehicles and are looking for information because the dealers, while not clueless, are not as well versed as we'd like them to be. More importantly, I think the sort of folks (myself included) who are willing to buy a diesel are also more likely to be online. Compare the number of posts in the diesel forum to the customer base and online usage indexes higher, it's safe to bet.

    My issues with the vehicle:
    The only problems I've had with it have been related to recall campaigns. Either the recall created another problem or it wasn't done correctly by my dealer. Other than that, there haven't been any spontaneous problems. None, unless you want to count the rock bashing I gave the muffler.

    Once my transmission was done correctly (they eventually replaced the front pump) I have plenty of torque and the shifting went back to new.

    I had one EGR put in at 16000 miles under warranty. I have not had any of the problems that have been on this board since that one short episode. I now have about 40000 miles.

    In no way do I want to minimize the difficulties some on this board have had to go through, either mechanically or worse, by dealers or Chrysler to get their issues resolved. This board is the biggest and best information on these CRDs and has been really great to know enough before going to the dealer. When I have asked my dealer to check something out, he's been very amenable and this board gets the credit.

    But I wouldn't use the board as a representative sample of all vehicles and owners.

    Good luck with your decision.
  • steve05steve05 Member Posts: 52
    Hello All! Just a quick note - after disconnecting the MAF, and removing the plastic cover behind the grille (the one that blocks incoming air to the snorkel), I recently had opportunity to drive out a full tank of fuel. I managed 26.6mpg at 72mph pulling an open trailer (493#) with a large motorcycle (730#) on it. (That would be around 1223# - but not exactly, as I added a spare tire w/ carrier & cover, and a nicer crank-down stand.) I'm happy with that. My last real tow was a pop-up trailer when I only had about 5K miles on the CRD, and got 19 at HWY speeds. I've been perusing Eurekaboy's mods and can't hardly wait for my warranty to expire so I can do more mods guilt-free! :shades:
    Steve
  • steve05steve05 Member Posts: 52
    For reference: I was getting 22mpg @ 74mph with nothing behind me. I consistantly got 28mpg @ 63mph before these simple mods, when the EGR valve wasn't plugged up that is. When it was plugged up, mileage dropped to about 12mpg, city or hwy.

    - S
  • jack94jack94 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for the good info. I will probably go for one - I have normally driven some different hard to work on cars most currently an old saab.

    Are there good extended warranties to look for? I plan to get an '06 with some warranty remaining.

    Thanks,

    Jack
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    Jack94, glad to see you weren't scared off. I would suggest you consider a 2005 CRD with low miles. The 2005 models have a 7/70 powertrain warranty that is transferable to the 2nd owner if you pay a small fee ($100-200, I can't remember exactly but it's stated in the vehicle's warranty brochure) to Chrysler which can be done at any Chrysler dealer. Although that warranty won't help on EGR valves, it will cover engine and transmission and that will be very useful, IMHO. The 2006 models have only a 3/36 warranty (though that short period is transferable to 2nd owner without any fee, I believe).

    If you do buy one, I would immediately do the following maintenance unless the seller proves it has been done recently:

    -change fuel filter (probably #1 priority)

    -drain engine oil and replace with synthetic 5W-40 with a CI-4+ rating. This could be Shell Rotella-T, my choice, or Mobile 1 5W-40 "DIESEL TRUCK" oil. Although DCX specified a Mobil 1 0W-40 oil, that is, IMHO, one of the biggest sources of EGR and other problems as it is only a CF rated oil which is an antique specification. [Incidentally, buy a spare replacement drain plug before you do this, you'll thank me later.]

    -determine whether all recalls have been performed, particularly F37. You probably do want F37 done, though read up on it before having it done.

    -determine if the front transmission pump is going bad, and have it replaced under warranty if it seems to be (hopefully it won't ever go bad again)

    -change fluid in front and rear differentials

    -I personally find the stock tires acceptable but I seem to be in the minority. In any case, when the tires need replacing do some research and don't get the OEM tires again.

    I think the CRD is reasonable to work on if you are mechanically inclined. You will find the oil filter and drain plug location better than on virtually any other vehicle, though you may not enjoy the amount of force required to loosen the drain plug.

    My dad had two SAABs, a 99 and a 900. The 900 served him for 18 years with no significant problems, and he sold it used at somewhere past 200,000 miles still in good shape (the mechanical fuel injection system was starting to wear out). He misses that kind of reliability! He now has a Toyota Tundra and Volvo XC70; both have been fine, but the 900 was truly a star. He did 90% of his own work on both SAABs and never complained about them being hard to work on.
  • nescosmonescosmo Member Posts: 453
    Here we are talking about oil again.
    I found an oil at Auto Zone call Royal Purple and for what I have found is a very good oil. I am thinking of putting the 15w-40 wait ( I am in florida). Does any of you guys know anything about this oil. I use Rotella now and is good but sometimes engines work better with when you change oil brands, so what's up....

    Nescosmo.
  • steve05steve05 Member Posts: 52
    i used Royal Purple in a full race motor (gasser) on the recommendation of an engine builder.
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    Royal Purple is a top quality synthetic, I believe it's a group IV base (comparable to Amsoil). If you want to spend the money it will probably work fine. While I am very anti-0W-40, I think the CI-4+ rated 5W-40 synthetics are perfectly fine and are all I use (I have only been using Rotella-T, based on both price and quality). The CJ rated oils should be fine too but may be more expensive and have limited benefit for our CRDs since they don't have diesel particulate filters. You can use 15W-40 if you want but I see no benefit over a synthetic 5W-40 even in Florida, and of course since a 15W-40 is outside of the owner's manual recommendations it could be a problem if you ever have a lubrication related problem while still under warranty.
  • nescosmonescosmo Member Posts: 453
    Zach..... I was using Rotella 5w-40 and it was fine but I had an small oil leak on the back of the engine. I went and change the oil for Mobil 5w-40 for about 1k and the oil leak stop. well Royal Purple said that it has an additive that is sleek and the engine work very smooth. After i put the oil and took it for a ride it shift sooner and at 5th the rpm is less at 70 mph. Will see about the oil leak after a while.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Nescosmo, I use Rotella 5W-40 and I also have the same leak. The truck is in the shop for 60,000 miles service and needed replacement of the front and rear differential input shaft seals (lip rings). Over here both differentials, transfer case and tranny are not flushed, they keep their original oil for the life of the truck. The timing belt takes 8 hours to replace and not 6 as quoted by Chrysler. So, it seems this complete fluid change service is a kind of agreement between the service people and Chrysler for the customer to pay undue labor. I even had to ask for replacement of the coolant :sick:
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    I've used Rotella-T for at least 8-9000 miles of my CRD experience, including the current fill, and have no leaks. And I park on clean concrete so I would know if I did have a leak. I wonder if the seals are defective on some engines and you two just have had a coincidence? Based on all I've read, there is not much chemical difference between Mobil 1 synthetic and Rotella-T.

    Here, our differentials and transfer case don't need any fluid changes on the "normal" schedule, but of course 99% of US driving is supposedly "severe". But as for the coolant, I think that's supposed to last 5 years or 100,000 miles even on the severe schedule (I know that's the rating for our 2006 Dodge Ram, I would have to check for the CRD).
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    The rear main seal on my CRD has an intermittent leak. When I drive it and park it in the garage there is no leak. When my wife drives it and parks it in the garage there is a small spot of oil on the floor. I drive it easy and she prefers to over throttle the engine and produce black smoke. Obviously, driving this CRD hard creates transient pressure inside the crankcase putting a little oil past the rear main seal. Discussions with her concerning the benefits of driving the CRD easy have produced less than gratifying results and it’s not on my agenda to bring it up again.
  • synlubessynlubes Member Posts: 184
    you know the old saying if a married man is talking to himself in the woods he is still wrong have a nice day
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    Siberia, I think that's very prudent as to marital discussions. I will just note that I drive moderately most of the time but floor it every other day for whatever reason and still have no leak. I'm at 35,500 miles and haven't been super on maintenance, though I have kept up with oil changes and always used synthetic (Rotella-T when I do it myself, presumably Mobil 1 0W-40 when the stealership has done it). Maybe I got lucky and mine has a tighter seal than others. It certainly seems there is some variation in the build quality and problem areas on these!
  • nescosmonescosmo Member Posts: 453
    I do not know if changing the differential oil will make any difference in the MPG. My driving is like a girl in love driving. If I ever replace the diff. oil I wil use Royal Purple and I seen some where a different cover, a better cover for the differential, will like to get it( hope I fing it some where in the forum)wander if the cover will void the warranty.
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Member Posts: 253
    A little thing about seals the leak or become wet with oil. If you park it on an incline causing the oil level to become higher then the seal they tend to seep and become wet. Always try to park on level surfaces.
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    How much does it cost to change the engine? Do you know?
    If you buy it directly from VM, 4500 Euros (found on the web, confirmed by Jeep tech). Buy it from Chrysler it's 7000 Euros, have it installed it's 12,000 Euros plus 19.6% tax. This is almost the list price of the truck in the US.
    Service bill comes to USD 2100 at 60,000 miles :mad:
    I wonder how much people pay for a Grand Cherokee? Perhaps they have to leave the house keys :shades:
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    Caribou I think all that euro/dollar exchange rate stuff has gone to your head. Sticker price of a CRD Sport in the US was around $25,000. I know the exchange rate is bad, but it is isn't 2.1:1!!!

    The VM direct price sounds reasonable, I guess. I hope this is purely academic and not a sign of engine life!
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    I have a bad glow plug. Displayed is fault code P1261 that should be a short in glow plug #1. I unplugged the wiring harness to the plugs and measured the resistance at each pin. Three of the plugs are at 1 ohm and one plug is at 0.303 ohm so that is the one that is going bad and throwing the code. I think I can get to glow plug #1 by removing the alternator. However, it may not actually be #1 since the wiring harness is often installed wrong. It makes no difference to the glow plugs only the diagnostics.

    Has anyone changed a glow plug on a CRD? Some makes require a special tool to ream the glow plug hole to clean it out before installing a new plug. Does the VM engine require this? What’s in Vodka that requires it to be charcoal filtered? :surprise:

    There is almost no empty space under the hood of the CRD the size of a human hand. :sick:
  • caribou1caribou1 Member Posts: 1,354
    Zachinmi, when you add tax and exchange rate you get to 21,000 USD. The rest of the truck is really, really not expensive ;)
  • pttrilliumpttrillium Member Posts: 62
    I don't know nuttn' about your glow plugs but vodka gets charcoal filtering to remove organic impurities.
  • steve05steve05 Member Posts: 52
    An '05 CRD Sport was exactly $26830 USD. The sticker, that is. The selling price, well, I REALLY REALLY REALLY beat up a lot of stealerships to get mine and am still amazed at the way the salesmen will cut each others' throat at THE SAME DEALERSHIP for someone's business. I will admit to enjoying watching these guys race to the bottom. I emailled every dealership within 100 miles about their CRDs, then called them to beat them up, then called the same dealerships back minutes apart to hear them "best" another salesmen's price. It was actually a lot of fun (and time consuming, but I was paying myself a lot of money in sticker reduction!) I drove off for $20k. I even got the guy to follow me after the sale and fill the tank. I pushed this sales technique because they never had to sit with me and bicker. I dropped some emails, made a few phone calls, and settled sight unseen for a vehicle I knew more about than the salesman. I expect everyone to make money for their labor, and since I did 99% of the work, the saleman got a very small commission. But he didn't have to do diddly squat to sell it, other than give me the right price. I realized that an '05, even with no miles, was no longer "New" and simply was not afraid to leverage that knowledge against the sticker price. Even with the minor headaches I've had with the little beast, I know I'm still on top of this deal. And I've been reading Diesel Power magazine for awhile, and talking to a lot of diesel truck owners. The support from them is huge. They love to see a small diesel in an SUV and have guided me to many aftermarket establishments that can really make things happen. I have no fear of the warranty expiring. In fact, I'm kind of looking forward to it, so I can make this little diesel really grunt and pull. This little truck will be with me for a long time. In fact, when the EPA warranty runs out (@36K - in 11K miles) I will be converting to a 2 tank SVO system. I can't hardy wait for the next 11k miles to get past. "Bio" and VO were the reason I bought this thing. I now also have an '83 Ranger with a Mazda diesel in it that I already run straight VO in. I'm learning more about common rail direct injected engines every day. And it is very cool to have a diesel powered vehicle. :shades:

    Oh BTW, the stock tires (goodyear ST) - they rated 60th out of 60 tires for an SUV, according to a TireRack Survey. I'm at 25k, pretty much out of sipes, and will be getting either Bridgestone Dueler Revo's or Avon Rangers by months end. I have had no major problems with these tires, but they just gotta go before the next Michigan winter!

    - S
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    Glow plug replacement was uneventful. The old plug unscrewed with very little effort and looked like new after wiping the very light coating of soot from the 2.5 centimeter tip with a paper towel. There was no anti-seize on the threads and it was not seized in the head a all. I used a 1/4 inch drive ratchet to remove it and install it. Only a small gray stain on the tip distinguished the old glow plug from the new one. The new plug measured 1.1 ohm resistance and the failed plug was actually open. The wire plugs that push onto the glow plugs do not pull off very easy – it’s just the way they are made.

    http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/html/4842.htm

    Liberty glow plug looks like the one on the right.

    0 250 302 004
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    I could not find the 0 250 302 004 glowplug in the Bosch listing.
  • siberiasiberia Member Posts: 520
    Neither could I.
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    I read that V M Motori now is owned by GM. That Chrysler is not any longer an owner. GM said they plan on using the engine in some of the US vehicles!
    What is you feelings about this change of owners?
    Our "Green Beast" is still in the hands of DCX, 6 months after our buy back.
    I hope you all are doing well and the CRD keeps on for many many years to come.

    farout
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    Thought I would announce that I have traded in my CRD and purchased a Chevy Suburban to replace it. I had tried to work with my Jeep dealer to either get all problems fixed or to get a buy-back, but they made a weak attempt at fixing and claimed they found nothing while several problems recurred within 2-3 days after their supposed work, and of course they also didn't offer to lift a finger to help on buy back options. I got sick of dealing with problems and worrying about expensive failures that sideline the vehicle for a week or more, and my wife got really, really sick of hearing me complain about the Jeep. So I bit the bullet, accepted a trade-in value of about half what I paid just two years ago, and have a new car.

    The Chevy Suburban is obviously a big step up in both price and size, but I am extremely happy with it. GM is back, big time; I have no doubt that they will be around for many decades to come. I do have some doubts about the new Chrysler LLC, and I also can nearly guarantee that the Jeep dealer I bought from will close its doors within a few years, based on their service and sales.

    I am getting around 17.5 mpg on gasoline in my usual commuting route, vs. 23-24 on diesel with the CRD. I think I am doing the same or better with the Suburban as I would have done with a gasoline Liberty. I realize the vehicles aren't directly comparable so apart from mileage I won't try to compare them.

    I will miss the good mileage and torque of the CRD, but I won't miss its experimental nature, engine noise, diesel pumps, etc. I think it is a basically good vehicle that DCX failed to adequately tune for US emissions and driving conditions, and then dealers didn't know or care how to work on it. I consider the CRD to be essentially abandoned by Chrysler at this point, and unless your dealer has been wonderful I wouldn't count on any future dealer help. Most of the long service visits I had were, as my wife pointed out to me, due to my dealer breaking some part while fixing something (often one of the recalls) for which the essential part had been pre-ordered. So, again, my dealer was a big part of the problem. But in my area there are only two other nearby Jeep dealers, one of which is much smaller and neither of which necessarily sold CRDs or cares about helping me. Since I'm in a GM town there are 10 Chevy dealers in town and another 10 within a short distance, so in the event my dealer doesn't turn out well, I have 19 others to choose from! (Not counting GMC dealers which can also work on the Suburban.)

    Like Farout has done, I intend to keep reading this forum out of curiousity and wish you all the best.
  • zachinmizachinmi Member Posts: 228
    Farout- entertaining and timely info. See my post below yours. I think the VM Motori engine is itself fine, but I think DCX screwed up the US market adoption by several things:
    -mating an automatic transmission. If the CRD had been sold with a stick, half the problems never would have existed.
    -DCX's dumb decision to spec 0W-40 oil with a CF rating. I think the CI-4+ oils make a big difference in minimizing EGR and turbo problems, by reducing evaporation and doing a much better job of handling soot.
    -the EGR system. I know it's basically on the Euro market, but I think the tuning of it for the US market didn't go right.
    -engine programming - too tight for emissions and probably wasn't tested enough.

    The VM Motori engine itself doesn't see to be the problem. If GM does proper emissions and tuning work before selling a vehicle with them, they should be fine.
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Let us think about some of the things you have said here.

    In Europe, diesel fuel is better in terms of quality, cleanliness and cetane. Most of the aromatic compounds have also been removed too and the sulfur content of European diesel has been very low for some many years before ULSD appeared here in October 2006. So the CF rated oil would work well in Europe but not here. That is more of a VM Motori issue than a DCX issue. Better quality fuel yields less soot, cleaner burn, etc.

    In Europe, emissions are quickly approaching what we have in the States and the programming they have in Europe is very close to what we have here.

    As to the transmission, I blame DCX here fully. A stouter TC was definitely needed as well as a few other trans parts. A manual trans might have been better but clutches made in the U.S. tend to be a bit weak and would be torn apart by this engine. I destroyed two clutches in my Isuzu diesel and finally was able to obtain a stouter one that lasted much longer than the other two did together.

    Lastly, we have too many dealers who simply do not care.
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