Jeep Liberty Diesel

caribou1 · October 2007

Winter, when you say "In Europe, emissions are quickly approaching what we have in the States and the programming they have in Europe is very close to what we have here." may not mean it's the ultimate way to go. I questioned the dealer about reliability of newer vehicles and while he was answering me he was interrupted by a customer calling for a tow truck!

EGR problem... you know...

My dealer has a telephone book listing 'certified' towers. This is new to me and gets my feet cold

Here is an interesting link showing in detail the common rail technology used in RENAULT engines:
http://www.renault.com/renault_com/fr/images/imagessynthesem9r_fr_tcm1119-456268- - - .swf

If you follow the news, you must know that Renault puts tremendous pressure on developers. Unfortunately three of them couldn't face the challenge last year. Do we really need to carry on with such sophistication?

zachinmi · October 2007

Winter2, I don't intend to bicker but I suspect the actual specification of the Mobil 1 0W-40 was by DCX rather than by VM Motori. As noted a while ago on here, DCX was already stocking quantities of that oil for gas-engined Mercedes models, so they probably saw a chance to economize on their supply chain. A CI-4+ oil is absolutely better for any diesel with EGR compared to a CF oil, and the CI-4 spec specifically contemplates EGR soot issues while the CF spec doesn't.

I'd be interested to hear what oil is specified for the Euro market models (Caribou?) and, if different, what VM Motori recommends for similar engines sold in other vehicles.

I also consider it strange that the owner's manual stated only Mobil 1 in two grades (with 5W-40 as a fallback) and didn't simply state synthetic motor oil meeting CF (or, in my world, CI-4) specifications. This to me indicates either a collaboration with Mobil, to put it very nicely, or a lack of testing and a default option of only authorizing one brand of oil. I am now reading forums on bobistheoilguy quite regularly and based on UOA results Mobil 1, though definitely a quality oil, does not seem to have any edge over several other quality brands.

caribou1 · October 2007

Zachinmi, I get YACCO VX 600 5W40 every time from the Chrysler dealership. It's the MB 229.3 compliant lubricant.

farout · October 2007

caribou1: Greetings friend, this is farout. I often read you many helps to those of us who have had you help in the past and those who still have the CRD.
After hearing the dealer I use I am of the opinion that the main reason for so many buy backs is the lack of DCX properly giving the proper testing of the polution control systems, and the very limited training given to the dealer tec's.
farout

nescosmo · October 2007

Vm do recommend the 10w-40 oil on all of their 2.5, and 2.8 engines. Now here!!!! in the US we have the money game.

Nescosmo.....

caribou1 · October 2007

Nescosmo, the viscosity range compares to the climate where the engine will be used. Once the engine is warm, it stays within a narrow temperature range and it's mechanical tolerances are calculated for grade 40 oil (in our case).

VM plant is based where the climate is mild during the winter; grade 10 oil for cold starts is sufficient for their region.

A grade "zero" oil will remain at this viscosity for a few seconds only during extreme cold starts. This low viscosity reduces the drag effort to start the engine, calls for a smaller battery and starter motor.

Because cast iron cylinders have smaller thermal expansion than the aluminum alloy pistons, when the engine is at a very low temperature there is greater play between the pistons and cylinders. Thermal contraction also helps the smaller starter by momentarily producing more freedom between components. If one would use a straight W40 here, the benefit of the looser fit would be altered by the effort needed to overcome residual viscosity. We have to keep in mind that battery power is also significantly reduced in cold weather.

I think the "zero" grade oil really plays it's role by releasing the piston rings to produce compression when cold. This may also be 'the' important oil filtration issue. The piston rings are imprisoned (pinched) in deep grooves that reduce the play (contract) when they are cold in opposition to the pistons with the cylinders.

All other oil specific features apply.

caribou1 · October 2007

Hi farout,
I'm convinced you took the right decision by letting your "Green Beast" go back to where it belongs...

DC plays sophistication and lost customer confidence over here as well. Who will profit from their attitude? My guess is Asian builders (again) who have the wisdom to observe and keep only the best. I had imagined to eventually replace the engine in case of failure, but I can buy a new small diesel car for the price they ask. This is plain stupid.

DC is also said to be involved in a scandal concerning European aircraft construction. Just listen to the headlines and watch where they will make their future 'joint-venture' investments

Would you appreciate Jeep to be built in Asia? I'm sure someone thought about this already. While I was there I saw a few Liberty and Grand Cherokee gassers that were exported from California. One of them was given the name of "Flying Dragon" :shades:

caribou1 · October 2007

No comment...
http://www.leblogauto.com/2007/06/pimp-my-ride-china.html

http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/union2005/product-detailNbvnFoprAxUO/China- - -Jeep.html

Here's more about Chrysler:
http://www.chinacartimes.com/2007/10/16/chrysler-to-get-in-on-small-car-business- - - -in-china/

farout · October 2007

Caribou1: Oh joy! I looked at all three sights, the first one I think is in French, but a Jeep made in china? This is no laughing matter, this is a huge step in accepting a slave trade nation to build junk.
I am not sure if I told you we bought a Chrysler Pacifica, a 2007 with the "LIFETIME POWER TRAIN WARRANTY" and we got the Max Care lifetime service contract too. The pacifica is the Touring AWD with the 4. L engine with the 6 speed automatic trans. Believe it or not this gets better MPG than our Jeep Compass did. On a trip we get 24.3 and around our Lake area. The Pacifica is a real quality vehicle. With the AWD we go everywhere the Jeep went and with less bounce. So we are very pleased.... so far.
I did read that Chrysler will discontinue the Commander, and Compass by 2010, and a good possibility to end the Aspen and the Pacifica. Chrysler says they are too heavy into SUV's and they need a real gas saving vehicle in all three brands.
With all the flat frontend there seems to be a lot of wind drag to me, what happened to the aero-dynamic gas saving designs? Where does the Hemi fit into global fuel savings? It's not just Chrysler but most all vehicles seem to go for power and speed. With oil at $87. a barrel now I thing our economy is headed for inflation out of control. The 1980's had interest at 215 here for Housing! I hope France is doing better than us.
Best wishes...

farout

caribou1 · October 2007

Farout, France is just behind you. In a global economy the first player to call for help lost the game. There is a bit more wealth per person here (less credit) but it's simply a matter of weeks for our economies to crumble. Hold on pal

caribou1 · October 2007

Just for info:
Daimler + Opel (GM) + Citroen (PSA) and Ford are now forced by law to divulgate all diagnostic codes. A French consumer association made this possible today, at last. Consumers will no longer be forced to have their vehicles serviced at the dealership. We are getting even :shades:

nescosmo · October 2007

I just install my SEGR circuit and it is a marvel of engineering, the engine light is off and the CRD is more responsive and get me more mileage. I do recommend this to all of the CRD owners. It will solve 99% of all of your issues.

coolrider · October 2007

Five months ago my CRD was returned to its maker by way of the forced repurchased method. I agree with other posts that DC is the blame for the Liberty woes not the engine maker. Little or no training for the field techs left the dealers that did not have a dodge franchise with the pick-up diesel and the sprinter diesel experience in trouble for repairs. A wiring harness with inadequate insulation is still a root cause to many of the malfunctions associated with the CRD. I do believe that CRD engine would have been a a good long term vehicle if it wasn't for the cheap parts. I am on my second TDI (first one was a 98 new beetle with 125k) and no problems like the liberty whatsoever. At five years old VW replaced a power window motor under warranty because of the history of this particular model. My 2006 TDI Jetta produces over 40mpg @ 80 mph and 46-48 @70 mph this is within one mpg under the beetle. I am a believer in diesel power and did not want a huge pick-up so I bought a new Jeep diesel in the Grand Cherokee. Nearly 5k with no towing yet, my state has very liberal lemon laws is why I took the chance again on DC.

siberia · October 2007

Coolrider,

Sorry about your trouble with the CRD. I was one of the early posters concerning the cheesy looking wiring on the CRD compared to older cars that I had worked on. Since then I have paid closer attention to wiring on other new cars and seen very similar looking wiring. Apparently there is cheesy wiring that works and cheesy wiring that doesn't work, so much.

What is the all-highway mileage on your Grand Cherokee diesel?

nescosmo · October 2007

I have 12,200 miles on my CRD and I just change my Differential oil. The book said to use RTV to form a gasket, but I went to the Auto parts store and bought a gasket. I use Royal Purple 75w-140 and when I test it was ok. I will replace the front with 75w-90 tomorrow.

caribou1 · October 2007

Nescosmo, I'm close to 70,000 miles and kept my original differential oil fill until recently. It still had the red dye in it and the service technician told me he saw no sign of wear. In principle this synthetic oil lasts for the life of the vehicle. I had both lip seals replaced on the nose of the front and rear differentials.

What worries me is that I have the standard Chrysler additive now and the rear differential doesn't seem to lock as well. If I can't swing the back of the truck anymore I will change the oil again. I have a horrible icy slope to climb in the winter :sick:

gerbs · October 2007

Nescosmo,
What exactly is an SEGR? Is that the replacement for the EGR valve?

f350mule · October 2007

Hi coolrider, I've been reading on this site for quite a while now for my wife and I have a liberty diesel and we also are having tons of problems with it. Trying now to get DC to by it back. I don't want to hijack the thread but if you can explain how you did that it would be greatly appreciated. Ours was just in the shop last month to get the turbo replaced!

nescosmo · October 2007

Caribou1.... I did the change to keep the warranty active and not to have any essue with the dealer.

nescosmo · October 2007

Gerbs... There is a circuit board that you install on the CRD that will close the EGR valve and control the FCV, to keep the CRD free of exust gases in the intake. That will give you better mileage, more power and clean oil and clean intake. Your CRD will last longer. To find out you have to go to L.O.S.T. forum and you will find out all about it (ORM). The board cost you about $80.00 and you have to assemble it and installing it. You have to be electric incline to do the job, but it is worth it.

caribou1 · October 2007

To those of you who like to have a clean engine compartment I have a warning:
- When you remove the dust and metal particles that collect on the electromagnetic clutch of the A/C compressor, you gain an awful lot of rattling noise during the first five minutes after a cold start. The clutch rattles only when it's not engaged. :sick:

In order to remove the fan shroud without completely disconnecting the A/C pipes that run across the radiator, the service technician bent the longest A/C tube. After two weeks I noticed the aluminum pipe has a severe indent because of the rubbing against the edge of the thin steel structure that fixes the front grid. Look for clearance of those two tubes coming out of the A/C radiator. They are bent in a certain way to escape the steel structure but service people don't always look everywhere before closing the hood.

I bet this is another 600 USD discovery...

siberia · October 2007

Is the rattling A/C clutch sometimes quite audible inside the vehicle but not so discernable outside even with the hood open? If so, you may have found the rattle in/on my engine that I have been trying to find. It seems to originate around the right front of the engine. I had ruled out belt driven accessories because of the belt tension. I will try to put my listening-stick against the A/C compressor.

zachinmi · October 2007

Mule, sorry to hear about your experience, but after giving up on my CRD a few weeks ago, not really surprised. Farout posted a very detailed and useful step by step description of how to obtain a buyback approximately 2-3 months ago, I believe responding to one of my posts. You will need detailed documentation of all your service visits, and you will have an uphill battle unless your dealer is really, really helping you. My dealer gave lip service to helping me on both warranty problems and a potential buy-back, and then pretty much showed me the door, failing to fix various problems and pretending they didn't exist. If you don't get prompt satisfaction, I would call a lemon lawyer fairly early in the process, as despite a few lucky people here I don't think DCX/Chrysler is being at all easy or reasonable about buybacks, and a lawyer who has done this type of work will know many if not all of the ways to persuade them.

goodcrd · October 2007

There is an air gap setting for the clutch plate of the A/C clutch assembly. It should not give you a rattling sound. If your hearing a ticking for rattle make sure it is not a pulley for the accessory belts or the belt tensioner itself. To check the pulleys, you must remove the belt and spin the pulleys by hand while feeling and listening for rough spots, looseness and noise. If any is found the pulley should be replaced. The belt tensioner on the engine seems very tight. Be careful taking the belt off.

caribou1 · November 2007

This thing rattles like a 20 year old 'Lada Niva'. It can be heard inside out and 50 feet away! The noise stops immediately when the clutch gets activated and comes back when it's released.
I also have a rattle coming from the bottom right front of the truck. I have the impression it's related to the muffler system because the 'sound' changes when I turn the engine off. Just as the engine stops I get a longer lasting 'squeaking' noise (just like an old coil spring box mattress sounds)

Once I get moving the BFGs take over up to 45 mph, above 50 mph the engine noise covers the radio if the volume level is set below 18. The normal radio volume level is 21 for a clear hearing condition at 70 mph; so when I hear the final squeak, this means quietness begins.

siberia · November 2007

Thank you, Caribou1, very helpful. I have your "also" rattle. I can look forward to the A/C clutch rattle.

zachinmi · November 2007

Mule, see post #9302 by Farout, and various posts shortly before and after that one.

f350mule · November 2007

Thanks all for the replies, I'll check into it. While it is in the shop yesterday for the second egr valve in 5 months, they said it would'nt start after the reprogram, I said what reprogram? That's bs, they then called me later and said the cps is out and won't be in till today. Your right, it will be uphill all the way.

gerbs · November 2007

thanks nescosmo, I will check it out.

ecrd · November 2007

I am looking for a list of the Liberty recalls. I can't seem to find a post that lists them out, nor can I find a website. Can someone share the list of recalls with me?

Thanks
ecrd

stever · November 2007

The Edmunds Maintenance Guide will show you recalls and TSBs.

gunnar2 · November 2007

i have a 2006 liberty crd and just experienced a similar experience where all of the sudden the engine lost power and behaved almost like an engine with a bad cylinder. then i shut it off and restarted and it was normal. this was at sea level.

i read a number of the posts on this symptom. since they are several months or more old, i was wondering if anyone has since found the source of the problem.

thanks for your constructive input. :confuse:

gormanp · November 2007

I have a 2005. Same thing happened to me, using biodiesel, accelerating uphill at about 3000 feet. Shut off, start up, fine for awhile, happens again. 3 or 4 times, then not again for a month. Dealer service check: OK. Then happened again, 3 or 4 times in a row, also at elevation, this time with DSL # 2. Back to dealer - reported a kinked fuel line and rerouted it somehow. Also had them change the fuel filter. Sounded kind of iffy, but hasn't happened now in about 4 months. So maybe its a kinked fuel line, maybe it's not- we'll see.

nescosmo · November 2007

It could be the filter or air in the line or your map dirty. Also your CAC hoses have a pin air leak tied them good.

Nescosmo.

caribou1 · November 2007

Once a week mine behaves as if it was side kicking :surprise:
A long time ago I mentioned Toyota suffered from injector pintle problems. They seem to stick in their sleeves. I think we may face the save problem.

mdamick · November 2007

My 2005 has done that several times.
Since I disabled the EGR it hasn't done it since.

nescosmo · November 2007

Well by power gain I went and sent the ECU to INMOTION-USA and with the replacement of the muffler and the SEGR plus the Royal Purple differential oil, I think that the CRD is going to be ready for the next century. will post how the ECU will perform tomorrow.

Nescosmo..

siberia · November 2007

I finally got around to using a stethoscope to listen to my CRD engine. What a cacophony of noises this thing puts out. When I pulled into the garage the rattle I have been trying to find was going on pretty good. After shutting off the engine to remove the engine cover and restarting the engine the noise was gone, but I listened to various components anyway.

There was a nice whirr coming from the alternator. The vacuum pump was relatively silent. The viscous water heater makes a subdued (relative to the engine) grumbling sound. The air conditioner compressor sounds like an air conditioner compressor with the clutch cycling on and off. There is bearing and belt noise that seems normal.

A very loud and distinct snap or mechanical click/rap sound comes from each injector. At first I assumed that this was the direct sound of ignition being transmitted through the injector but now Im not so sure, since this sound could be the actualy injection event. One could easily use this method to find a failed or failing injector (if the engine will run with a failed injector). Oh, right, the computer will tell us which injector. The rail itself emits a harsh feedback sound from the injectors.

There was exhaust noise being transmitted from the turbo. How such a delicately balanced device can live at such high RPM attached to such a vibrating beast is a mystery to me.

I am going to have to drive with the engine cover off for a while so when the rattle happens again I can listen immediately  maybe in a grocery store parking lot or sitting next to a diesel pump. Lookers can wonder: Whats that idiot doing?!

stever · November 2007

You're not the only one - Dub Schwartz uses a "stethoscope" too:

siberia · November 2007

Yup, that's it. Not pretending to have invented this listening method. First saw my father-in-law use this method in 1960 and he had already been around a long time (Studebaker dealer). Today's gasoline engines are so quiet that this method is seldom necessary. However, the CRD is a really good candidate for the "stick". :shades:

stever · November 2007

I was a kid when I first saw that trick and I thought my leg was getting pulled. :shades: It works pretty well - just watch out for those moving parts. Dub in the comic seems to think he can diagnose his flat tire with it....

caribou1 · November 2007

Many years ago people used the crystal head (with it's needle) of a 45-RPM pickup player to amplify the sound of moving parts. If you had an oscilloscope, you could 'see' the sound pattern you identified and locate it's origin by moving along the engine elements.

siberia · November 2007

Many years ago I used the crystal head (with it's needle) to listen to Camille Saint-Saens. Still do once in a while.

goodcrd · November 2007

What noise does the egr gases passing through the exhaust cross over pipe behind the cylinder head make if not secured properly? Or how much less noise, if it is securely fastened behind the head. At idle you can actually hear the gases heating up the pipes and flowing through. It has a kind of ticking sound.

nescosmo · November 2007

Can you use a pvc pipe to hear the sound or it is an special tool that is made for it.

The CRD is a racket, my wife is sick of it, but to me hearing the noise is better that to put the stereo sound.

Nescosmo...

siberia · November 2007

Nescosmo, you can actually buy an automotive stethoscope, but a narrow broom handle cut to length, a wooden dowel rounded on one end or the big section of a two piece fiberglass fishing rod will work just fine in a pinch. Put one end against engine item and the other end against the opening of the ear while remembering Steves caution about contacting a moving part transmitting more than sound to your head.

stucolts · November 2007

Hi how do I disabled the EGR valve?

mdamick · November 2007

There are 2 ways.
1. Disconnect the plug at the valve.
2. Disconnect the MAF sensor.
Either one will illuminate the MIL.

To prevent the MIL you will need the circuit board from the L.O.S.T. site for the MAF or you will need to bypass the IAT circuit with a resistor & relay.

storageguy · November 2007

Does anyone know if the CRD motor is used in other applications? These could be marine, industrial or heavy equipment.

I read online recently that Chrysler is introducing a military Wrangler version, with a 2.8, 4 cylinder turbo diesel. Is the same one as in our Liberty's?

caribou1 · November 2007

Storageguy,
Here is your answer, and more...
http://www.vmmotori.it/en/01/01/index.jsp

Jeep Liberty Diesel

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