Transmission problems with Lexus ES?

atoews · December 2003

Today for the first time, I felt the rear end "kick" that you and others have described when starting up from a stop.

My car has 16000 miles on it and I purchased it in March of 2002.

I wonder if it has anything to do with how cold it is. When it happened the outside temperature read 38 degrees, a condition I rarely drive in.

My car is an '02 without the transmission patch.

rtorreca · December 2003

My 02 has the "chip" replacement fix (PART # 89666-33442) and the transmission update. The chip made my 02 better but after the update, it's gotten worse again - about as bad as before new chip install. I'm not sure if it's the cold weather (I'm in the NE) that's causing it to act up more than usual but the problem (slipping, surging, shuddering and gear-hunting) has only gotten worse.

As for the warped rotors, mine was warped at 1500 and was resurfaced. They just recently replaced it altogether, no charge, on my 19.5K service. My 02 now has 20.5K on it.

kreativ · December 2003

Is the problem with the rotors just the front rotors, or rears as well?

atoews · December 2003

Mine were also replaced without charge when I complained of vibration.

Don't know whether it involved front and back.

wrd · December 2003

On my car the rear rotors have been fine. The car has about 25k.

wrd · December 2003

I am also in the NE. Could you tell me what dealership provided the "442" computer. This is a Canadian use computer only.(See posts #62 and 128) I have asked at IRA Lexus in Danvers, MA.,and they do not even have this part number in their parts book. Canadians with this "442" computer seem content with their automobiles. My car has engine computer #89666-33253 and the computer upgrade and is very inconsistent. It drives well for days and just when I think it may be all healed up, it misbehaves again.

rtorreca · December 2003

The dealership is Difeo Lexus in Bound Brook, NJ. So far they have provided me excellent and courteous service. However, depending on whom you ask, they would either say no complaints or several complaints on the tranny.

When I asked about this part #, I was told that they do not normally carry that part. The tech called up Lexus Corp and they approved a special order, without charge to me. They said they normally don't do that kind of thing but they're doing it as "an act of good faith."

After the chip installation, the driving experience somewhat improved but did not eliminate the problem altogether. If felt faster off the line (probably because it held on to the first gear longer than before) and the shudder did not occur as often. I sometimes go 3-4 days without noticing a shudder but after the tranny update, it seems to occur more often.

If you have this part #, you may want to think twice before applying the update. It can make it worse like it did mine.

toydriver · December 2003

Is this a typo, or are you implying that there was a transient improvement after the upgrade and it now is bad again??
"After the chip installation... It felt faster off the line...and the shudder DID NOT OCCUR AS OFTEN. I sometimes go 3-4 days without noticing a shudder but after the tranny update, it seems to OCCUR MORE OFTEN."
I'm considering the update on my '03 and have been soliciting advice and opinions on whether it does or does not improve the perception of the "shudder" when the car changes gears.
It's clear that you're not happy with your upgrade experience but you contradicted yourself.
(My biggest complaint about my car is the shudder when it downshifts as the car slows down).

wrd · December 2003

My car has the 33253 computer and the 04-03 upgrade. It's my wife's car and she drives more aggressively on the highway than I do. Her biggest complaint is the lonnnggggg hesitation when it downshifts to pass or accelerate. My biggest complaint is the inconsistent 1/2 and 2/3 shifts. It shifts fine for days and then , for no obvious reason, shifts like a slipping transmission. High revs and slow mushy shift. Before the upgrade, the 40 mph shudder was annoying, especially since I did not know the cause of it. Now the shudder is gone, but, these new symptoms are just as annoying, if not more so.

rtorreca · December 2003

Yes there was some improvement but the problems were still there, just not as pronounced. With the chip+tranny update, it feels like the car BEFORE the new chip installation. Basically I'm back to square one.

es300trans · December 2003

Well, my wife and I took an hour drive today and I noticed a new problem as a result of the upgrade. While cruising along at 20mph with my foot off of the gas, the car suddenly surged forward, yikes. I asked my wife about it since she now drives the car to work. She told me that this happens all the time.

I've traded stumble and shuddering problems for surging. I am not sure which one is worse. What I do know is that I will never by a Lexus again.

P.S. I had the front rotors replaced at 7K miles since they were defective.

carswelljr · December 2003

i have a 1996 lexus es 300. 2 days ago i noticed this grinding noise coming from the front driver side whenever i turned my wheel left. today, when i went to drive my car, the noise was twice as loud and prevented me from even moving the vehicle. as soon as i shift the car from park to neutral/drive/ or reverse it makes the loudest grinding noise and does not move at all. its as if the car completely locks up!!!
any suggestions?

texas83 · December 2003

Sorry to hear about your transmission problem. The tranny problem most of the people on this board are having is related to the software given the '02 and '03's. It may be a problem for the '04 as well. Grinding isn't a software issue. Better spend the dough on a mechanic.

texas83 · December 2003

I talked with a manufacturer's rep in the Atlanta office on Thursday. He acknowledged that many people are unhappy with the transmission. He said the Lexus engineers are happy with the latest software upgrade for the transmission and that no other upgrades will be forthcoming. Wish I could find a lawyer. Unfortunately the lawyers want me injured or dead before I contact them. It makes their case so much easier. If I get fat from eating at McDonald's I can find any attorney to represent me. But, make it a dangerous mechanical problem and they want people hurt. Please file your grievances with the National Highway Transportation Agency. By constant complaining, it's one of the best and cheapest ways to get Lexus to fix this problem. Please don't let this website be your only outlet to get Lexus to fix this transmission issue.

bern1234 · January 2004

The transmission on my 2002 ES300 lurches when accelerating after slowing almost to a stop. When I press hard on the accelerator on the freeway to pass, the transmission hesitates and then downshifts two gears and the engine goes up to over 4000 rpm. After this 2 or 3 second delay, the car speeds up. I consider that dangerous! When going up a hill near home, the transmission gets up to 3000 rpm and will not downshift. Switching from D to 4 and back causes the transmission to up-shift to a comfortable rpm. I have mentioned it several times and I always get put off by the service representative. I guess I need to go higher!

amf1932 · January 2004

I just received the new issue of Consumers Reports. In this issue they tested the 2004 Lexus ES330. Here is a quote concerning the transmission: "The five-speed automatic transmission is smooth, but not always responsive when downshifting." This unresponsiveness has been an ongoing gripe among many owners of '02-'04 ES's.
Lexus: WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES!

encinowoman · January 2004

It's time for the second oil change on my '03 ES300 and I've been pondering the "chip" change to improve transmission performance. I received my "letter" from Lexus in September '03. Before agreeing to it, however, I wanted to read these boards and am now glad I did.

My experience has been like that of many owners, however, I think I'll stick with what I've got instead of going for the "enhancement" which probably won't ensure perfection. This is what I suspected...........

My shifting problems only occur occasionally, and usually when I'm on a "hill" here in the L.A. area. When going downhill, just coasting and braking, THAT'S when the problem is the worst. Luckily, I don't have to do that too often.

On freeways (NOT commute times, LOL) the car is a dream, truly -- it accelerates beautifully, reaching cruising speed quickly and without glitch. It rolls along steadily and quietly with no problems and de-celerates nicely. It's just those darned "hills" on occasion, but on a steep grade such as the Conejo in Ventura County, again the car accelerates perfectly and without hesitation. I zoom from 25 to 75 in a couple of seconds, passing every vehicle on the road without so much as a hint of transmission change. That would NOT be true, of course, if someone got in my way and I had to brake or remove my foot from the gas pedal.

Even more rarely, on a city street, if I accelerate quickly away from a stop sign or light without having come to a complete stop first, the car will lurch forward but it doesn't seem dangerous to me as it doesn't move all that much. I see this as a good reminder to me to come to complete stops.

To sum up, it seems that quickie stops and starts are what cause the transmission jerkiness most often. This should NOT be happening, of course, but overall this is a great car and most of the time the "jerking" can be avoided.

I will tell the dealership about my decision NOT to put in the "enhancement" and WHY, and I will definitely tell them I am NOT 100% pleased with the transmission, as they need to know how we all feel.

Unless something else happens down the line, however, I will not be seeking legal counsel, etc., as some here have chosen to do. I agree with voicing displeasure and even if the majority of owners do not complain, the numbers are significant enough that Toyota/Lexus SHOULD make restitution to the really dissatisfied owners.

My last car was a '93 Nissan Altima, 4 cyl. engine. That little car could zoom around, too, but believe me, it was NO pleasure trying to reach higher speeds on freeways or accelerating up any hills whatsoever. Talk about feeling the gears shifting. WHOA!!!!

I have been told over and over that the ES300 is NOT a high performance car -- the salespersons at Lexus admitted the G35 Infiniti has taken quite a bite out of their sales for that very reason. I note there are a lot of young males driving that G35, probably due to its "performance." I had thought about the G35 for myself, and drove one, but for my needs, the ES300 was better, i.e, middle-aged female who is not the "high performance" type.

Good luck to all with your ES cars.

shopper652 · January 2004

I wonder if there is a problem connection between a transmission with Vehicle Stability Control and one without it? Could that be the differewnce between owners who have problems and those who dont?

lexusrock · January 2004

encinowoman, when did you get your 03 and what's the mfg date (mm/yy) of the car? Is the letter supposed to be received by all 03/02 owners after certain months from the purchase date?

shopper652, why did you think it to do with VSC or not? Mine has no VSC and I've not experienced the said tranny problems yet. I think my 03 was made right b4 they stopped 03 production.

shopper652 · January 2004

I am not a mechanic, my comment about whether or not the VSC could have some effect on the problems I have been reading here, is based on the fact that I do not see anyone comment if they have VSC or not. I thought it might have by pure speculation on my part. Since I intend to purchase one soon it was something I am interested in. Id still like to know if the Trans problems are with both VSC cars and those without. Thanks.

vcheng · January 2004

rtorreca · January 2004

toydriver · January 2004

Notice that people report transmission problems whether or not their cars have VSC. I don't understand how VSC could be related to the transmission problems anyway. I thought the VSC was a braking system to prevent sideway skid. I know it also involves decreasing power or shutting off the cruise control (if it is on) and the wheels start to skid.

My ES' problem is very similar to that described by "encinowoman". It downshifts hard when it is going down hill or decelerating. Otherwise, it behaves well.

shopper652 · January 2004

My thanks to all who commented on the trans problems of the ES330 and any possible connection of cars with or without VSC.

es300trans · January 2004

Mine does not have VSC

encinowoman · January 2004

Lexusrock, I bought my ES300 exactly one year ago, mid January, 2003. I can't find the manufactured date, but I recall that the car had been on the dealer's lot less than two weeks, and came in through Long Beach. I THINK I remember seeing something somewhere about the car having been being built early fall of 2002. I gather you got your car much more recently than Jan. 2003.

As for the VSC, I do not believe I have that feature, but many here say it makes no difference anyway. All in all, I am VERY happy with the car and have figured out how to drive it to avoid almost all of the transmission jerking people talk about.

atoews · January 2004

to a tee. I could not have said it better. I will not have the transmission upgrade.

I have also learned to drive my car to minimize the problem.

I think a key issue is that we both live in So Cal, where the weather is relatively warm (above freezing) most of the time we are driving. However I live in the desert, where it can get significantly colder in the winter than in LA. Below 32 degrees, my transmission exhibits worse behavior than in warmer temperatures.

Even though it is colder here than it is nearer the coast, it seldom is below 32 degrees out during times when I am driving. I do not have a lot of data for driving in cold weather. I just know that the two times I have had a significant "kick" from the transmission was in below 30 degree temps. I believe that if my transmission behaved often as badly as it did those two times, I might feel as texas83 and rtorecca and vcheng do about the issue.

toydriver · January 2004

You have both described my ES' transmission "issues" very precisely. "It's the darned hills" or coasting to a stop when the car surges as it down shifts from 5 to 4. I am also "learning" to live with it and adjust my driving patterns to avoid "quickie" starts and stops. I also have felt an improvement when I drive in 4 rather than D - only below 50mph. Otherwise I have been happy with the car, but it is clearly not a "performance" car and it doesn't like to be driven aggressively. I am not completely satisfied because the new ES transmission clearly is NOT UP TO THE STANDARDS
of any Lexus or Toyota product I have ever owned or driven.
I haven't decided whether to do the upgrade or not. Can either of you convince me one way or the other??

atoews · January 2004

I am not upgrading because of reports on this thread from folks who have upgraded. Those who have the upgrade report that there are different problems.

I can live with the problem the way it is. It is an issue of not wanting to trade the known for the unknown.

toydriver · January 2004

When you described your car's transmission as "exhibiting worse behavior below 32 degrees than when it's warmer outside", was your car completely warmed up or was the ENGINE also cold (first few miles) when you noticed the problem??
I live in the upper midwest and have noticed more problems since late fall, but it seems to be intermittent (one time it's fine, the next trip - "surge").

atoews · January 2004

both times.

texas83 · January 2004

I found a lawyer and will be talking with him Friday. Wish me luck. I already got a new car via this bad transmission thru lemon law hearing. I don't want another Lexus if I'm successful. You never know, the lawyer idea could flop. Nothing's guaranteed, but I can guarantee I will not succumb to altering my world to appease my transmission... ie. driving in 4th gear, avoiding hills, driving only when it's warm, avoiding stop signs, or having to hold my tongue a certain way for good luck. If you do that and you accept it as top of the line quality which you paid EXTRA for.... then you get what you deserve.

toydriver · January 2004

"Holding your tongue", as you put it, doesn't seem to be your problem anyway.

Best of luck with your lawyer. Channel your energies through him/her. Lexus is the target.

bern1234 · January 2004

My 2002 Lexus has VSC and all of the options sold by Lexus. Refer back to my description in message 383. The car is excellent except for the transmission problem which was not improved with the software change. All that has happened is that the shifting points occur at higher RPMs and the gas mileage seems to be worse. Not an improvement. Other problems that I have has was tire noise so I changed the tires at 22,000 miles, rear window screen problem which was satifactorily corrected, warped rotor on the right front wheel. The rest seems to be fine. I do love my car but I am afraid to drive it on the freeway during stop and go traffic due to its questionable responsiveness. I feel that it is reprehensible that Lexus has not fixed this or responded with other than a reprogram. I will contact the service rep at my next service which will be within the next month

wrd · January 2004

Complaining amongst ourselves has not yet been too productive. I notice that on www.autosafety.org, I am the only one to have registered a complaint about my ES300's transmission. And that is after two years of complaints and 402 messages on this board. Perhaps making our problem more public would accomplish something. There is nothing like a knowlegable buying public and a drop in sales to motivate a manufacturer.

nogermancar · January 2004

I am extremely surprised to hear that Lexus 2003-04 ES300 or ES330 owners are still having problems with their transmissions. I bought a 2002 ES300 and felt really frustrated with the way in which Lexus dealt with the whole issue. I had some very weird experiences with the service advisors.

After one year of ownership, I got a lemon lawyer and got my money back. If you have a mechanical problem that admittedly cannot be fixed by the dealerships, and your vehicle manufacturer does not work with you, then go get your four repair attempts and your money back. Simple.

Good luck to you all. I hope your future car experiences are much more enjoyable.

wrd · February 2004

Where did everybody go? Was it something I said?

cxc · March 2004

NHTSA is investigating the sudden acceleration of 2002 ES300. We know that the transmission behavior of our ES300 is unpredictable. The government said that there have been more than 30 crashes and many serious injuries. When we reported similar problems to Lexus, they said that it is normal behavior. I hope that this message will alert all owners of 2002-2003 ES300 and 2004 ES330 - Drive very carefully and not get anyone killed or injured because of Toyota's reputation for denying a problem and delaying a solution.

mrdlexus · March 2004

Just to let you know I purchased a 2004 Es330 and it also has major transmission issues. I have taken it to the dealership 3 times already, with no results. The shifting is rough at times, with definite hesitation in low gear shifting. This does not happen all the time, approxiametly 10% of shifting is problematic, the rest of the time the car shifts normally. I would highly recommend anyone in the market to purchase an ES330 to test drive several cars to see if this problem occurs in any of them. The car that I test drove (not the one I purchased) did not have this problem, if it did I would never have bought it!!!!

texas83 · March 2004

The problem I have is mostly transmission slip, but it does surge on occassion. Last November, in Austin, I had a bad surging incident. I guess this software is in more than our cars. Maybe with Congress looking into this we can get some results. It's all in the software.

Houston Chronicle, 3-9-04
CAR'S SURGING PROBLEMS CAUSE INQUIRY.

WASHINGTON (AP)- The federal government is investigating reports that some Toyoyta Camry, Camry Solara and Lexus ES 300 vehicles have surged forward without apparent reason, injuring at least five people.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said Monday it has received reports of 30 crashes due to the alleged defect. In one case, a pedestrian was seriously injured when a vehicle suddenly accelerated, NHSTA said.

Vehicles from the 2002 and 2003 model years are included in the investigations. An estimated 1,011,000 vehicles could be effected, NHTSA said.

Toyota Spokesman John Hanson said Monday the company has received similar complaints and is reviewing its records. Drivers reported sudden acceleration as they depress the brake pedal, shifted the transmission or drove at higher speeds using cruise control.

md528 · March 2004

I have read quite alot about the 2002 and 2003 ES300 transmission problems. The 2004 ES330 has a different engine 3.3L and a new tranmission. Are any 2004 owners experiencing the same problems as the 2002 and 2003 models???? I am about to purchase a 2004 ES330 and don't want to if they have not fixed the problem

andy71 · March 2004

I am a current owner of a 2004 Toyota Camry SE V6. My car has the same 3.3L 225 Hp and 240 lb-ft of torque. This is my honest opinion and I think you should take the car for a thorough test drive before buying one. The car is very responsive from a standstill. In fact much much quicker than the 3.0L engine found on the LE and XLE models. However, the drive-by-wire throttle has a disconnected feel to it when you step on the gas. I think 90% of the people probably won't notice it. But comparing to my 95 Camry LE V6 I can feel the disconnect. In my older car I can actually feel the car responding to my throttle input. With my new car, it is computer sensors not cables that detect acceleration input. Some of the complaints I have seen on this board is that there is a slight delay when you press the gas pedal and when the car starts accelerating. I have not felt this. My overall impression of this car is very good. But you should always test drive before agreeing to buy a car. Hopefully it helps.

atoews · March 2004

and I know what you are talking about. The V6 Camrys seem kind of soft and sluggish. But that is not the same thing as the ES300/30 transmission slip/hesitation. In fact, the ES300 transmission seems more responsive than the Camry XLE in the aspect you are talking about.

I drove an RX330 as a loaner and did not have the problem that I have experienced in all ES300s I have driven.

I still think the hesitation discussed here is a ES unique issue.

sarah · March 2004

I test drove my car(which I am scheduled to pick up on Sat.)today, and I'm quite surprised at the first step on the gas,the car did'nt seem to respond, I drove out of the dealer's lot and I felt like I was pushing the car from behind,the gas pedal was pressed hard enough and I drove around the area and I thought maybe there was something blocking the tires from running,it was so slow, I thought maybe the brake was onbut there was no indication of that.I turned back right away to the dealer and asked the sales person. He opened the hood and showed me the label on the engine marked VHH(orVVH)He said that the car's transmission is driven by computer sensor, it senses how the driver drives the car and he said that it will take about 15 miles before the car would respond to my way of driving,he even had an engineer explained to me. I was really puzzed. I decided to try again and drove out of the parking lot again,this time ,the car seemed to respond better. Am I just not used to this new technology or was I too tight because I was nervous or is that sign of transmission problem that some people talked about? Please give me some of your opinions. I still have time to back out although I think I'm way too far into the deal. I signed the financing application today

toydriver · March 2004

The "slow to respond" feel that you described on your initial test drive is very similar to what has been described by some of us on this website.
It has also been characterized as intermittant -
ok sometimes, bad other times. Some people are seriously annoyed by the problem and others don't seem to mind or care.
IMO, if the response that you felt the first time you drove the car would bother you, DON'T buy the car. There is no need to rush spending this kind of money if you're not completely satisfied.

kreativ · March 2004

I agree with toydriver. If you're not satisfied with how the car drove on your test drives, don't let the salesman rope you in with the expectation that the car will get better after you've dropped $30K+ for the car and driven it off their lot. If he's so confident, he'll let you drive the 15 miles to prove his point to you.

And what he was pointing to on the engine is "VVT-i" - Variable Valve Timing with intelligence. I don't know why he referenced that instead of the ECT-i when explaining the learning behavior of the transmission.

sarah · March 2004

Thanks for your advices. Did any new owner experience the same slow response in the first 15 mi.? I spoke to their service person today and she explained that it was not transmission problem that people are experiencing, that it was the software that needs adjustment.I read about the vvt-i on their website today and it explained in detail its technology, same with ECT-i both seem to be dependent on the computer sensor which is controlling the car for you rather than you. The sales rep did allow me to drive as long as I want but it was late in the eve. so maybe I'll try to do that again tomorrow.The whole experience was just surprising not unsatisfied because if the car is really dependent on these sensors,I can understand,just a matter of knowing about it.

andy71 · March 2004

Cars from all manufacturers are packing more and more complicated technology in their cars. Most are definitely for the better but unfortunately some are not. This is my first car with an "intelligent", "adaptive" transmission. From my personal experience I can tell you that the transmission did adapt to my driving habit after about a week. But if you don't feel comfortable with the car back out of the deal. You should buy something that satisfies your needs.

sarah · March 2004

Do you have the '04 ES330? Did you experience the same slow response when you first drive your car? As I mentioned in my earlier post,it's not that I'm dissatisfied, it's just that I didn't know about the vvt-i technology. Now that I know about it, I seem to trust that it will adapt to my driving like in your case.

atoews · March 2004

The "smart" transmission symptom, whatever it is, is minor compared to the transmission hesitation that board members complain about.

I have not felt a sluggish startup, but more like a shudder, and mostly when accelerating after I have pulled back from the gas.

Also, if you are not trying to repeat the problem, it tends to be intermittant.

But I could repeat the shudder on all ES300s I have driven.

I have not driven an ES330, but some board members have reported that the problem was never fixed in the ES330.

Transmission problems with Lexus ES?

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