Transmission problems with Lexus ES?

toydriver · March 2004

You are getting some really good advice from experienced ES owners on the past few posts.

Forgive my intrusion, but it sounds like you are convincing yourself that the initial hesitation you felt on the test drive won't bother you as long as you understand the technology.

I am still trying to understand the technology too, but am still annoyed at times by the slow response to pushing on the gas and feeling the shudder when it downshifts - as atoews refers to.

If I were you, I'd take a more basic approach to it. Test it again (without the sales person in the car). Stomp on the gas, slow quickly, speed up again - then drive it slow and easy, noticing every sound and vibration. Drive it for as many miles as they will allow, before you purchase. New car owners should be 100% satisfied with the car when they leave the lot - (the car won't get any better than when it's brand new and shiney).

sarah · March 2004

I've read almost all the post on this site tonite,now,I'm really convinced that I had experienced the slow response that most people described. As I mentioned in my first post after test drive,As soon as I started the car and pressed on the pedal far enough,the car was just moving and not running. I crawled out of the dealer's parking lot feeling strange and drove 50ft to next door's parking lot still crawling, checked if the brake was accidentally left on but didn't find any sign of it. Came out of the parking lot and drove back to the dealer's parling lot,the car was running better by then.After the sales person and their engineer explained the vvt-i technology,i decided to give it a try again. This time, I didn't feel the same response. That's exactly what I've read from this board. I was hoping that the car's computer would adapt to my driving habit as some has reported but now, I have this funny feeling that I'd just experienced the typical symptoms on my first try. It's sad, I'm so close to getting the car,now,I'm having second thought. I drive on a busy highway to work everyday, and the traffic is often stop and go, I'm really concerned about the response issue and possibly more of others. I'm really disappointed and frustrated now. Thanks to all. I'll let you know of my decision tomorrow.

andy71 · March 2004

If what you described is true, don't buy this car. My car didn't exhibit this slow almost no response you are talking about, but the transmission did feel a bit lethargic especially when it came to downshifting from overdrive for quick passing or merging maneuvers. Thankfully that symptom is now gone as it has "adapted" to my driving habits.

P.s. My car is a 2004 Camry SE V6 with the same 5 speed ECT-i automatic.

wrd · April 2004

My 2002 ES300 still shifts and drives bad and it has 30,000 miles on it. Last sunday (Easter),in heavy traffic on the Mass Pike, my wife, my 5 year old grandaughter and I came within fractions of an inch of being crushed by a 18 wheeler. I stomped itto get out of the way and NOTHING happened except for a lot of engine noise. The car went nowhere. By the time it picked a gear and started to move , the trucks bumper and grille were the only things I could see in my rearview mirror. He managed to stop( with smoking tires). Another coat of paint on my car and there would have been contact.
Wiht the exception of the shifting and throttle response, it is a great car that I wish I had never bought. I also own a LS400, my second,and I do not know of a nicer production automobile, but, I will never trust Lexus enough to buy another one of any model. Their response to the driveability problems of the 300 have been underwhelming.

srocks4 · April 2004

Hi Everyone,

I will be looking into a used es300, most of my driving will be on the freeway. From what I've read, there is a lot of issues with AT, does anyone if the '92 used the same?

94k, leather, suppose to be clean with no major mechanic issues; Their asking for 5k.

Thanks.

maxhonda99 · April 2004

srocks4,

The 92 ES300 had a totally different transmission from today's ES300. In fact the 92-93 ES300 had one transmission, the 94-96 ES300 had another transmission.

andy71 · April 2004

I am surprised Lexus has been able to keep the tranny problem of the ES300 swept under the rug for so long. Most of the transmission issues seems to be posted by individuals on Edmunds and other automotive forums. Does anybody know if there is any class action lawsuit against Lexus?

sv7887 · April 2004

Hi All,
I'm sure Lexus will do something about it..Their whole Brand Image is based on Reliability..I've driven a few ES cars and have noted their sluggish transmissions. The ES330 I had recently as a loaner was significantly better though. If anything I'm sure Lexus is working on a fix.
Don't let one bad experience deter you from buying another Lexus car. I've had 3 LS400/430's and plan on continuing to buy them. (I still have the 92..Absolutely Bulletproof reliability) Lexus still builds a car that is second to none in reliability.

SV

atoews · April 2004

...but I'll bet you won't see a "fix" until the new body style comes out. The only way I believe Lexus will fix the problem is if someone is killed because of it, and the situation draws media attention.

You might want to search for user "texas83" and a couple of others who have engaged in lawsuits against Lexus/Toyota over the issue. Currently, Lexus will not even acknowledge that there is a problem.

carscars · May 2004

I have a 01 RX330 and a 98 ES300 which, except for some strut problems, has been largely troublefree over the years. I've been waiting over a year to replace the ES300 with a ES330 expecting Lexus to resolve this. Being something of a car nut (I also own a Corvette), I have come to the conclusion that this problem appears to be most apparent to drivers who are more attuned and demanding of their car's response (like me). Many other people (and my wife would probably fall into this category) would never notice or become aware of the problem as the rest of us. Anyway...with Lexus doing nothing to really address this, I'm about to buy an Acura TL. Frankly, even if they now came out and said that they have a "new" ES transmission for 2005, I would still not trust them based on their recent claims that their reprogramming has now fixed the problem.

denny · May 2004

I have a new 2004 ES-330 that definitely has the sluggish transmission problem. There has been little or no improvement in the first 600 miles. Because of this driveability issue, the car has been a major disappointment and is frustrating to drive. I will be taking the car in for the 1000 mile service soon and will see what they say. If they tell me that it is normal or that nothing can be done I will be getting rid of a car with 1000 miles on it. I have'nt read all the posts here but it does not appear that anyone has gotten a satisfactory solution to this problem. Is this correct? It would seem that a transmission software patch would have solved the problem by now.

vcheng · May 2004

You won't be the only one. I got rid of an ES300 with 550 miles on it for the same reason a while ago. If you dislike the drivetrain as much as I did, you will have to get rid of it. No amount of "upgrades" or "design features" will make this unit drive like a modern car should.

mrrogers · May 2004

There was a post a few months ago where an owner said that the problem was not as bad if you drove in fourth gear around town, and then shifted to fifth for highway driving. Good luck!

davidz · May 2004

Just test drove the ES330 again with the hesitation issue in mind (due to various things I've read here and elsewhere).

I noticed that the hesitation is worse the harder you punch it. If you ease in on the throttle and push it when you feel the tranny engage, there's not much hesitation at all. Or at the very least, a lot less than when you just floor it quickly.

Any thoughts on this? I'm still debating whether or not to buy one. I'm going to test drive it again the weekend. There's no other car that interests me. If I don't buy it, I'll just keep my 1997 ES300 and wait to see what the 2005s are like.

toydriver · May 2004

I have owned an '03ES for a year now and have just under 10,000mi on it. I didn't notice the trans. hesitation until it had several hundred miles on it. It seemed to get worse until about 1,000 mi and since then hasn't changed much. Complained to my service mgr. (who has always been extremely helpful to us with my wife's RX) who "re-set" the transmission computer during my last scheduled service. It really hasn't helped.

Re: changing driving habits ("hesitation is worse the harder you punch it"). Unfortunately we can't always control our driving patterns and have to adjust depending on traffic flow, congestion, emergency stops, stop and go of rush hour, etc.

I'd say that if you are annoyed by the shifting on the new ES330, you might try a different ES, (some ES cars seem to be affected more than others - or at least their owner's are more vocal than others) but more than likely you will continue to be annoyed if you purchase it. You are probably very sensitive to the way a car responds and the current ES model may not be for you. The updated GS330 model is due out soon and promises to be "sporty" with close to 250hp.

davidz · May 2004

Just test drove the ES330 again with the hesitation issue in mind (due to various things I've read here and elsewhere).

I noticed that the hesitation is worse the harder you punch it. If you ease in on the throttle and push it when you feel the tranny engage, there's not much hesitation at all. Or at the very least, a lot less than when you just floor it quickly.

Any thoughts on this? I'm still debating whether or not to buy one. I'm going to test drive it again the weekend. There's no other car that interests me. If I don't buy it, I'll just keep my 1997 ES300 and wait to see what the 2005s are like.

andy71 · May 2004

The problem you are describing is probably due to the drive by wire throttle system and not the transmission. I have felt that slight delay when taking off from a stop light. It doesn't bother me too much. Once the car does start to accelerate it is pretty quick. If you are waiting for the 05 model you probably will be dissapointed since there won't be any major changes

mrdlexus · May 2004

The problem is that there really is a problem with the transmission or the drive by wire throttle or both. Lexus refuses to accept that there is a defect in this car, and until consumers stop buying there won't be a fix. I own a 2004 ES330 and I have contacted a lemon law lawyer to attempt to get my money back. I am disgusted with the car and its poor driving ability. If you actually believe that the car will shift better with more mileage then you ought to get your heads examined. I will never purchase another Lexus again and anyone in the market for this car should look elsewhere. There are plenty of other cars available in the 30k-35k price range that drive and perform much better. The biggest issue is that Lexus refuses to own up to its mistake, they claim it is operating as designed. I honestly believe it is operating as designed, just very poorly designed. Anyone in the market that is thinking about an ES330, at least in my opinion should look elsewhere. Otherwise you will be making a $30K+ mistake like I did and regretting every minute that you are driving the car. Please do not purchase the ES330 or you will be very dissatisfied for the duration that you own the car!!!!!!!!

davidz · May 2004

I took a demo ES330 home for the weekend. Yes, there's a lag in the throttle, but I can live with it. It's time for a new car and there's no other car I'd rather have.

toydriver · May 2004

Before purchasing, you might want to read posts on this website over the past 2 years with complaints from owners about the transmission. To summarize, some have claimed that the car is "dangerous" and have sought legal remedy through lemon laws, complaints to DOT, etc. Others of us are occaisionally annoyed by the hard shifts and hesitation and "jerkiness" unbecoming of a luxury vehicle. Others don't seem to notice or care. The fact that you noticed the "lag in the throttle" early suggests that you are in one of the first two categories of drivers.(IMO).
Lexus has obviously been very successful in sales of the ES, but Lexus' recent drop in quality ratings (number of complaints by new owners) was attributed to the ES transmission issues. They make up for it in quality of the interior, quiet ride, smooth ride, etc.

andy71 · May 2004

Most of the problems on this forum seems to be with the ES300 and not 330. Remember, the 330 has a more powerful engine and a revised transmission. Also how you drive could be a big factor on whether you feel the problem or not. The fact that ES300/330 is still selling so well even with the transmission "problem" leads one to believe that the overwhelming majority of owners are probably not feeling the problem.

davidz · May 2004

I have read the messages in this group and on usenet extensively over the last few weeks. And I just took a demo ES330 home over last weekend with all that knowledge in mind. I still say it's the only car I want.

All cars have some lag between the time you put your foot on the gas pedal and when the car responds. Some more than others. And granted the ES330 could be better in this regard. But dangerous? I don't think so.

Also, I've read about 3 reviews in car magazines of the ES300 (C & D) and the ES330 and there was absolutely no mention of the issue. The only place I see it discussed is by a few ranters on the Internet.

toydriver · May 2004

Thanks for your note. I, too am puzzled why C&D and other independant reviews wouldn't comment on this issue, since there are several websites full of commentary from owners. Anyway, I enjoy my ES (for the most part), but wish that Lexus would correct a deficiency in performance that isn't present in any other Lexus/Toyota cars and trucks that I have owned or driven.
Best of luck with your car selection.

mrdlexus · May 2004

The point that I am trying to make is that for $30k-35k you can do much better. Yes the car is smooth and quiet, but the unpredictability of the shifting pattern is what is questionable. Everything is great about my car except for the shifting and lag during shifting. Another problem is that the car does not always follow a certain shift pattern or hard shifting, sometimes it is fine. The people that do not recognize the shifting issues are the same people that do not realize that they are driving on a flat tire. This is the worst shifting car I have ever had, hands down. I can shift a truck smoother than this shifts, and that's a fact. If you notice any weird shifting habits during the test drive it will not get any better with time. Don't get fooled just because it is a Lexus, just go with your gut feeling. If you like the car then buy it, but remember that many people have complained about this problem to Lexus with no results. You will be stuck like I am, paying for a lawyer to try to get your money back. Also the new engine has no affect on the transmission shifting issues, they are still there. Whether you have an ES300 or 330 the car still shifts hard and clunks into gear. No matter what anybody says an entry-level luxury sedan should be smooth and quiet, and yes that includes the transmission. Possibly the reviews sent out by major car magazines and online are bogus. I have read nothing prior to my purchasing the ES330 about poor shifting or lag during shifting. But as soon as I get the car and search for a specific problem it comes up all over the place, something is fishy. I just hope to get my money back and I can get something that I will be happy with. By the way my previous car was a Camry, no problems at all, loved it 100% The point of my rambling is to help anyone in the market for a new Es330, I don't want to see anyone else get ripped off.

denny · May 2004

In a recent post(#430), I described the sluggish transmission/acceleration problem with my new 2004 ES330 that so many on this board have detailed. I had the car in for the 1000 mile service yesterday and asked them to check out this problem. They said they checked the transmission by computer and that it was operating as designed. When I asked if the shift points could be extended, they said that no changes could be programmed into the transmission control computer. The service writer did admit that many customers have complained about this problem and suggested I call Lexus to log in my complaint. I guess I will do that, but don't expect any solution will result. So, the purpose of this post is to warn any of you folks out there who may be considering the ES330 to beware. I don't know if this problem applies to every car or whether some are worse than others. Be sure you take an extended test drive, not just around the block, to determine if you can live with the way this car performs. While I'm at it, what cretin designed a climate control system that runs the A/C and recirc automatically and requires you to shut them off, and provides no way to get fresh outside air through the vents.

toydriver · May 2004

Did your service writer tell you about the software "upgrade" that can be installed?? Another option (according to my service guy ) is to "re-set" the transmission computer to allow it to "re-learn" your driving habits. (He thought this was a good first step because the "upgrade" installation prevents going back to the orignial computer software, once it's installed.)
Check back on older posts on this site.

vcheng · May 2004

The lousy drivetrain remains a lousy drivetrain in an otherwise nice car. Buyers beware.

denny · May 2004

I saw a notation on the dealers copy of the service order that said "beyond trans update calibration", so I assume this means that my car has the latest software update available, especially since it's only 1 1/2 months old. The service guy did say that the only thing they could do is erase the computer's memory of our driving style, but he didn't think that would help in my case since I've been trying to "train" the car rather aggresively. I fear that vcheng may be right.

toydriver · May 2004

I recently had the re-set done, and I think that it has helped some. I intentionally drove aggressively during this second "break-in" period, as they suggested. I bought the car new, out of state, and drove it 500 mi home with little change in the highway speed.
I may be getting use to it's jerky habits as it now has close to 10K miles.
Anyway, just suggestions that might help.

denny · May 2004

Thanks. I think I will take the car back and have them erase the memory and break it in a second time. It couldn't hurt. Are there any Lexus service techs out there who can shed any light on these transmission woes?

cliffordransom · May 2004

I test drove an ES330 and loved the car except for some rough shifting. I read this forum and went back for another test drive with a more focused attention. I could make the transmission misbehave pretty easily.

After all of you folks experiences I changed my mind and bought a used (19,000) Mazda Millenia that drives just as well and and has a silky smooth engine and transmission for $15,000. I'm happy and saved $17,000. Thanks folks, the Internet rocks!

motownusa · May 2004

I just read the Edmund's review of the ES330; don't see any mention of the transmission problem. Aren't these professional drivers who are reviewing the cars? They must have put the car through it's paces. In fact, they called it the best affordable luxury car.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/lexus/es330/100322064/review.html- ?tid=edmunds.h..reviews.reviews.1.*

georgeb7 · May 2004

It may not be in the best interest of Edmunds.com to single-handedly report that the Lexus 330 has a bad transmission. Just food for thought.

toydriver · May 2004

Obviously, Lexus as well as all other manufacturers pay Edmunds for advertising.

Does Edmund's pass on website chatter to reviewers?? Probably not.
You'd think that if you were in the business of reviewing cars, that you'd know and factor in what is being said by the customer base (those of us on this website).

Good question for our host. Why don't Edmund's reviewers comment on the transmission issues with the ES ???

Mr_Shiftright · May 2004

Probably because it didn't happen to them, would be the most logical answer I could come up with.

The reviewers are usually pretty good about jumping on a glaring defect, if you read through some of the other reviews.

However, your comments (basic content, not identities) are very helpful and are directed to management for possible forwarding to manufacturers. We hosts often note any reptitive mention of problems with a car and send that observation along.

You have to remember that even a 10% failure rate in a car's component would be very unusual, so it makes sense that the Edmunds car wouldn't show it.

mrdlexus · May 2004

Believe it or not there is an honest person that is reviewing this car. Ann M. Job of the Associated Press reviewed the Lexus ES330, and was quite honest. Direct quote from her review,"I just wish more attention had been put into how the transmission and engine worked together in the test car. Occasional, clumsy-feeling upshifts were felt by passengers. There were enough of them during my test drive that I wondered what had happened to the silky smooth shifts that I had enjoyed from the predecessor ES. I also noticed occasional hesitation, as if the transmission were indecisive about which gear to be in , when I travelled on hilly highways". That is a perfect review of an imperfect car, this is what we are all complaining about. Stay away from the ES330 until Lexus fixes the problem, it's been 3+ years an counting!!!!!!!!!!

toydriver · May 2004

Poor Ann M. Job !! She probably won't be getting another Lexus to review, with those comments about the ES.
I think about recent scandals with stock analysts and how they had conflicts of interest with the companys they reviewed.

My biggest concern, now that my ES has 10K mi, is how likely is it that this transmission will completely fail prematurely.

davidz · May 2004

The irony of Ms. Job's review is that she "wondered what had happened to the silky-smooth shifts" that she "had so enjoyed from the predecessor ES." Based on the complaints that I've read, isn't the sluggish transmission problem much worse on the ES330's predecessors (specifically the 2002 and 2003 ES300s)?

mrdlexus · May 2004

I think she is referring to the time when the es 300 had a 4 speed automatic instead of the current 5 speed. It is true that 2002 and 2003 models were the worst, with marginal improvement in the 2004 model year. The fact remains that when Lexus changed from the 4 speed to the 5 speed, that is when all the complaints started occurring. The 4 speed was silky smooth!!!!

wrd · June 2004

Those posts describe the problem perfectly. A wonderful automobile that shifts like crap. My 02 has 30k with no improvement or deteriation in shift quality. Will it last 100k? Who knows. Will Lexus stand behind their product if it fails? I am beginning to doubt it. I have driven many 02/04 loaners (300's and 330's) and every one had a noticeable shifting problem. I will never believe it is just 10% of production.(Lexus has admitted to 12%). Just 10% of aware owners. Last time I checked NHTSA'S site, there were 37 reported accidents and one death attributed to ES300/330 transmission problems.
I am also driving my second LS400 and had plans to buy a new 430 until I read posts from two owners complaining of abnormal shifting with their new 430's.

amf1932 · June 2004

I've been complaining about the crappy shifting on my '03 ES from the time I purchased this car till the present, but when I read about Lexus's sales figures from "Auto Spy" I ask this question: Why would Lexus even bother?
Quote from Auto Spy:
"Lexus passenger cars also posted strong sales of 12,762, an increase of 13.9 percent. The ES 330 luxury sedan recorded best-ever May sales of 7,099 units, up 23.9 percent. The
LS 430 flagship luxury sedan posted sales of 2,763 units, up 55.3 percent."

toydriver · June 2004

Well, the way I see it, Lexus/Toyota is starting to "rest on their laurels" the way the "big 3" did before they slid into disrepute, falling sales and slumping stock prices. Toyota considers themselves as the best car/truck manufacturer. Yes Lexus has a way to slide, but if they can get by with cheaper production, of course they will.

The interior of the ES sells itself, so by the time the test drive occurs, the customer is more focused on the wood grain, quiet and ambience of the cabin and not on the transmission.

Well, Lexus should be more concerned about RETAINING customers as much as aquiring new ones.

This customer has NO plans to buy another Lexus after owning 3, and having problems with 2 of them. Next time, I will look elsewhere.

motownusa · June 2004

http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/lexus/es300/100003424/roadtestar- - ticle.html?articleId=73568

The full report on the 02 ES300 does mention the transmission anomaly. It says during normal driving the upshift is barely perceptible, however during aggressive driving the upshift is harsh and the downshift delayed as if the transmission is confused about the driver's intention. So, it is understandable why the majority of the owners probably will not feel the symptoms being described on this board since 90% of the owners probably will not drive it in a way to induce the transmission problem. However, if you read the entire article, you will see that the overall review of the car is very positive calling it one of the best entry level luxury car in terms of fit and finish and NVH (noise, vibration, harshness) even saying to pass up the MB C320 for this car.

maxhonda99 · June 2004

About 2 months back I had a 2002 ES300 as a loaner car. Being that I read these boards alot, I was really looking for a transmission problem. I drove it about 50 miles, and although it wasn't a perfect shifter, I couldn't duplicate any of the problems anyone has mentioned on this board.

Basically I did find it a little slow to kickdown gears when driving at about 40-50MPH but it wasn't dangerous and it wasn't any worse than my Accord V6, which I feel has a so-so automatic transmission.

georgeb7 · June 2004

"Yes, there were a few minor transmission concerns in previouus ES 300 models but these cocerns have been addressed with the ES 330 models. Besides, if Lexus is still #1 in dependability and realibity, can you imagine the how many more problems the other makes are dealing with? You'll still get the best value for your money with a Lexus without a doubt".

This does sound like - we are the best so if we have one problem, why should we fix it if others have more problems.

five aces · June 2004

I was looking seriously at buying a ES 330, and test drove the car three (3)different times from three (3) different dealerships. I was very impressed with the smooth, quiet ride, just what I was looking for, when all of a sudden when I tried to accelerate, "what the heck?". There was a very noticable hesitation before the engine accelerated, and it was annoying. It has happened to me everytime I test drove the vehicle. I started looking into this, talking to other people who had Lexus', and calling service departments and talking to technicians. Guess what? There is a problem. The Lexus technicians acknowledged it. Check out consumerguide.com and look how they rate the Lexus under "acceleration". They nailed it. I don't know if it is a huge issue, but it is annoying and frustrating. It may not be a deal killer, but for me, I'm starting to look again at the Avalon's. Where is Edmunds on this issue?

toydriver · June 2004

Edmund's pays reviewers to write complementary notes about the manufacturers that pay Edmund's (advertising).

Re: the Avalon. I believe the new '05 Avy will have the same drive train (3.3L V6 5sp auto - drive by wire system that is in the ES). So, if you want silky-smooth shifting, check out the '04 Av before the model end. IMO.

five aces · June 2004

I wonder how good the stereo systems are in the '04 Avalon LXS?

five aces · June 2004

I have been thinking the same thing about the future 3.3 Liter engine in the '05 Avalon. I wish I new for sure, but it is logical to be concerned that it will have the same shifting problems as the ES.

toydriver · June 2004

Historically, Toyota/Lexus has used the same drive train (engine and tranny) for the Lexus ES, Lexus RX, Toyota Avalon, Toyota Sienna, Toyota Highlander and upper end Toyota Camry.

Since the ES, RX and Sienna now have the 3.3L V6 mated to 5sp auto tranny (which is the topic of concern), it would be predictable that they would also include it in the new, yet to be released, '05 Avalon.

Interestingly, there are posts on the new Sienna site complaining about transmission issues, but perhaps not the same ones listed for the ES.

Transmission problems with Lexus ES?

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