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Transmission problems with Lexus ES?

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Comments

  • johnparjohnpar Member Posts: 2
    There is definitely a transmission performance issue. Some people (me included) find it a minor issue; others see it as a major problem. I noticed the slow downshifts of my 02 ES and had the software upgrade done. I noticed an improvement, but the downshift hesitation did not go away altogether. I now have an 04 ES, and its transmission acts the same as the 02 after the upgrade. I don't find it particularly annoying, and feel the ES330 is one of the finest cars I've ever driven. Very quiet, smooth and comfortable.

    My wife drives an 04 RX330 (formerly drove an 02 RX300). We've not noticed any transmission issues with either vehicle.

    I note with interest some of the posts that complain about service from the Lexus dealers. Over the last 25 years, I've acquired 24 different vehicles of various makes from 10 different dealers. The two Lexus dealers I've dealt with are head and shoulders above the rest. My current dealer, Lexus of Shreveport, is outstanding. On my 02 ES, as I dropped it off for its 10K maintenance, I mentioned to the service manager a slight shimmy when braking. He called me a little while later and said they were replacing the brake rotors at no charge. Similarly, I stopped in one day and told them I had begun hearing some unusual road noise. They took one look at the Toyo tires on the car and told me they would be replaced. I got a set of five new V-rated Goodyear Eagle GA's, including balancing and alignment at no charge. No fuss. No muss. I've never experienced that type of proactive service from any other manufacturer's dealers.
    Of the six Lexus vehicles I've owned, the two items mentioned above with the 02 ES are the only times any of the six have been in the shop for anything other than scheduled maintenance. The only other car I've ever been able to say that about was a Saturn my daughter drove for 70,000 miles. Lexus does make great cars, and my experience says they stand behind what they sell.
  • lobslobs Member Posts: 21
    I read much of this discussion before recently buying a new ES330. In my test drives there was some evidence of slow downshifting and hunting for a gear. I was somewhat concerned but I went ahead and got the car based on its overall excellence. I now have about 600 miles on the car and have frequently tried driving in ways to confuse the shifting and also to accelerate rapidly. There has been a clear decrease of the slight, negative symptoms in a very short time. The downshift delay is a fraction of what I had with my 2000 Jaguar S Type(really irritating - even dangerous). On the other hand, it is not like the instantaneous response of my BMW 330i. I am definitely NOT unhappy because of the transmission shifting. The anomalies are insignificant.
  • jragosta1jragosta1 Member Posts: 49
    I just did some checking on NHTSA's web site. There have already been 9 complaints about 2004 ES330 models, 28 complaints about the 2003 model and 50 complaints about the 2002 model that appear to be related to this problem.

    Unfortunately, those numbers are not firm because different people coded the problem differently and I didn't read the whole complaint to be sure.

    I'd suggest that everyone who has the problem should contact the NHTSA to file a complaint. It's quite easy and will only take a few minutes at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/.

    To ensure that the complaint gets full attention, I'd suggest that everyone enter the same thing under 'equipment'. That way, the problem won't be neglected because it appears to be so many unrelated problems. I would suggest that you enter the following two items for equipment:
    Power Train:Automatic Transmission
    Vehicle Speed Control:Accelerator Pedal

    Since no one knows for sure what the problem is, but the drive by wire seems to be one culprit, those choices seemed reasonable.

    Please take the few minutes to file your complaint if your car is affected.
  • drbeedrbee Member Posts: 1
    I leased my ES 300 and wanted to purchase the car. Not with this transmisson problem. I went to pass another car on a two lane road...punched the gas and the car just stood there....accident waiting to happen. It's hard for me to beleive that a car of this quality has not fixed this problem.
  • jragosta1jragosta1 Member Posts: 49
    Please file a complaint with NHTSA (see post #472). If enough people take action, the government will likely force Lexus to act.

    It doesn't cost anything but a couple minutes of your time.

    Thanks.
  • toydrivertoydriver Member Posts: 227
    jragosta 1 :
    Will do. Thanks.
  • vanboyvanboy Member Posts: 6
    Hi Folks. Just had the pleasure of driving an ES330 as a loaner for the day. It had 7,500 km (5,000 miles) on it. Yes, I'm from Canada.

    Its a wonderful car with a smooth, velvety ride. What you would expect from a Lexus. As for the transmission problem....as long as I was moving forward at ANY speed, anytime I pressed hard on the accelerator, the was a momentary pause....BUT a very small and most people wouldn't even notice. Yes for those car enthusiasts out there, you would definitely notice but I wouldn't classify this as a problem. I have driven a lot of cars, some owned, some rented and some belonging to other family/friend members. Most cars have a momentary lag, albeit a micro-second long, when you stomp on the gas. I'll add that none of these cars a drove would be classified as a sports cars. Even my Integra had a small lag that wasn't really noticeable or a problem.

    The only real issue I noticed was that the shift from first to second was a bit "klunky". Not as smooth as the rest of the gear changes. But all in all a very smooth car with lots of features and what should be great reliability and resale value. Even if there really are shifting problems I don't think it will cause any real transmission problems in terms of repairs in the future.

    Thats my 2 cents.
  • texas83texas83 Member Posts: 107
    Be sure and file complaints with the NTHSA. I wrote U.S. Texas Senator John Cornyn, and he forwarded my letter and documentation to the NTHSA. They wrote him back and said there have been only 37 complaints filed with them. Frankly, I find that a shocking few, with how many people are on this board complaining. There should be a lot more. The 37 are complaints on the '02 and '03 and they noted me as one of the parties complaining. The complaints relate to a surging problem, but they say they have no complaints on hesitation, or flat out failure to deliver power to the drive train. I would urge you to file if you want anything done about this.

    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/
  • texas83texas83 Member Posts: 107
    I was getting my oil changed at a dealership in Houston. Killing time, I walked around and looked at new cars. The sales manager came up and asked if I wanted a new one. He asked if I liked my car and I told him about the bad transmission, and how everything else was fine with the car. He looked down at his feet a bit, then looked up at me and said "It probably wouldn't surprise you to hear you aren't the first person to complain about that." He said "He didn't understand why nothing had been done." I told him that I spoke with the Atlanta Lexus Rep. and that the Rep. said that the dealers were all mistaken about telling customers that tranny problem would be fixed. The Rep. said that "There is no problem with the car and the dealerships are misinformed." He just shook his head and said "I'd sell the car if I were you. You can still get a good resale." Frankly, I was really taken off guard by his honesty. I really appreciated it. That same Atlanta Rep. has since acknowledged there is a problem, but that the Japanese are happy with the vehicle and they aren't going to do anything about it.
  • jragosta1jragosta1 Member Posts: 49
    Texas83, if you're in touch with your senator, please provide him with the real numbers. You can do your own research on NHTSA's site.

    I counted over 100 complaints for 02 alone. Something like 60 last year and 10 already on the '04 models.

    The problem is that NHTSA only looks at the description. If the descriptions don't match properly, they don't count them. For example, they count 'power train:automatic transmission:torque converter' as a different complaint than 'power train: automatic transmission:shifting' even if they both describe exactly the same symptoms. It's even worse in this case because many people listed the problem under 'accelerator'.

    If you go to the NHTSA web site and review the complaints for 02, 03, and 04 Lexus ES300/330 individually, you can see pretty quickly which ones cover this specific problem. The numbers are much higher than NHTSA is willing to admit. Close to 200 complaints on a car that only sells a few thousand units per year is huge.
  • bjk2001bjk2001 Member Posts: 358
    jragosta1:

    I am just wondering: Are you a Lexus ES owner? What year is your ES? Do you have any tranny problem? Seems like all your 3 posts are asking people to file complaints to NHSTA. BTW I think Lexus are selling more than a few thousands ES a year more like over 60,000. If you include V6 Camry wih A5 then that's more. @ NHTSA site for ES330 I could only find out 8 complaints in POWER AUTO TRAN and 1 for POWER TRANS.
  • jragosta1jragosta1 Member Posts: 49
    Yes, I have an ES330.

    You can't count the Camry in with the ES330 since they have different drive trains. The transmission problem doesn't seem to appear on the Camry.

    Your numbers on the complaints are incomplete. First, you're only looking at the 04 - which is less than a year old. Second, as I've pointed out, many of the complaints are probably listed elsewhere. For example, Lexus keeps telling me that the problem is the drive by wire and not the transmission. So there are also some complaints listed under that category. You want to look at the complaints for unexplained hesitation on acceleration. THAT was my point - people should be consistent in their complaint so they all get tracked together. If you have 100 complaints and they're all assigned to a different category, it won't be noticed.

    As I said, there are many, many more complaints on the 02 and 03 ES300 cars.

    My gripe is that everyone I've talked to at Lexus is aware of the problem - and many, many dealers reported by readers here have also admitted to being aware of the problem. But Lexus refuses to acknowledge it. If they refer to it at all, it's a 'concern', not a 'problem'. When every Lexus employee I know is aware of the problem but they refuse to fix it, they need to be forced to fix it.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    The 2004 Camry SE shares the same 3.3L 225 Hp, and 240lb-ft of torque engine with the Lexus ES330. The Solara V6 also has the same 3.3L engine and 5 speed ECT-i (adaptive transmission) as the 330. The Camry, Solara, and the ES are based on the same platform and hence the same powertrain. All major companies share powertrain among multiple cars to save costs. The V6 versions of the LE and XLE Camrys still have the 3.0 engine as the outgoing Lexus ES300. The Avalon still has the same powertrain as the pre 2002 Lexus ES. The only reason NHTSA has not issued a recall is because the number of complaints is very small in proportion to the number of cars sold. But if this car has fallen short of your expectation, the next ES is coming out in less than a year with a 3.5L 275 hp engine.
  • davidzdavidz Member Posts: 35
    Where did you get that tidbit about a 3.5/275 hp engine in the ES within a year? Everything I've read says that the '05 ES will have the same 3.3 as the '04.
  • jragosta1jragosta1 Member Posts: 49
    Careful about your title - I didn't claim that they'd release a 3.5 next year - that was motownusa. I'm with you. I can't believe that they'd release a new one just a year after the old one.

    Not to mention that it's irrelevant for me. I just bought an 04. Even if I could afford to replace the car after a year, there's no way Lexus is getting any more of my money the way they're handling this issue.
  • jragosta1jragosta1 Member Posts: 49
    You can't read too much into the fact that the specs on the Toyota and Lexus engines are the same. For example, Lexus uses a drive by wire system that is at least part of the problem. Also, the transmission programming is apparently different. As evidence, consider the fact that it's been reported that Canadian 330s don't have the problem - because they're not certified as ULEV vehicles and have different transmission programming. I read that one person had demonstrated that they could fix the problem on a US 330 by installing the Canadian transmission logic - but this voids your warranty.

    There's more to the drive train than just the specs.
  • wjlwjl Member Posts: 11
    Not sure if I'm looking at the http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ site correctly or not, but.... for the 2002 ES300, I do see over 100 complaints as you mentioned, but most have to do with other items (gas cap, appearance of the gauges, etc). I also noticed quite a bit of duplication in entries (same tracking numbers). I went through all 107 entries and only came up with 20 that were definitely related to the shifting/trans problem. And perhaps another 15 that could be related (cruise control, etc)... which adds up to perhaps about 35 entries (not counting the duplicates). Also, Lexus sold about 20,000 ES300 or more in 2002.
  • georgeb7georgeb7 Member Posts: 35
    I believe you support your argument very well. Your posts are clear and back your assertions. I agree with what you have summarized. Lexus is not owning up to the problem. I have seen complaints from other web sites also.( I do not remember which ones they are on off the top of my head, but I will post them as I remember). I believe some Lexus owners are in denial. They do not want to admit they have made a bad purchase. Buyers remorse has turned into "Buyers Denial". I am not referring to anyone one specifically, just in general.
  • jragosta1jragosta1 Member Posts: 49
    There are many categories that can be linked to the problem. For example, 'Power Train', 'Automatic transmission', 'Vehicle speed control', and so on.

    I don't remember the exact number, but I came up with over 100 for 2002, 2003, and 2004.
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    I've tagged in over 10K miles on my 03 ES and have not experienced any hesitation or surging. I don't drive aggressively but did have to floor the throttle a few times and it sped up just fine. I did sense some minor shuddering occasionally though when I gently press the gas pedal after coasting the car bit, kind of like it's driving over a mild uneven road. It does not happen a lot, and when it happens it does not bother me at all, as it's very gentle. Overall I am very pleased with ES smooth quiet ride. Not a sporty one for spirited driving for sure, but a very comfortable car. Just an ideal luxurious family sedan to me. That said, if I ever sense some jerking behavior I'll not be blind/quiet to it.
  • questionerquestioner Member Posts: 11
    I was planning to flush the tranny on my 94 ES300 recently. But the service consultant at local Lexus dealer suggests me to do a tranny service (drop oil pan and change filter) instead of a tranny flush because he thinks my ES300 is too old with 110K miles to have a tranny flush. While my tranny flush still looks pink and doesn't smell burnt(I bought it used in 2002 so I don't know whether the previous owner had flush the tranny before or not).What's your guys opinion on this? Should I go with a flush or just a service?
  • jragosta1jragosta1 Member Posts: 49
    I would go ahead and have a complete tranny service done. 110 K is a lot when you don't know what the service history is.
  • questionerquestioner Member Posts: 11
    jragosta1,

    Yes, 110K is a lot. That's exactly the reason why the service consultant suggested me not to flush but to do a tranny service. He said it's company policy not to flush tranny on cars with more than 100K miles because it may cause tranny problems since the new fluid may not protect the seal as well as the old fluid does.
  • bjk2001bjk2001 Member Posts: 358
    That's something new to me not to flush tranny fluid just do a tranny service for car over 100k miles. Typical if you do a tranny service you got about only 1/3 of the fluid out the other 2/3 stays. New tranny fluid should be better than the old one, doesn't make sense that new fluid won't be good for old seal. Anyway, if the fluid color looked and smelled good maybe you don't have to flush it. My 97 Avalon has 122K miles on it. I never flushed it only changed fluid very 30k, doesn't have engine oil gelling problem. Car still runs as the same as it was new.
  • amf1932amf1932 Member Posts: 79
    I think we're getting away from the main discussion that concerned '02 to '04 ES transmission shifting problems!!
  • bjk2001bjk2001 Member Posts: 358
    LMAO! Does this thread say '02-04 transmission shifting problem only? BTW 04 is ES330 not ES300.
  • seabushseabush Member Posts: 68
    I'm contemplating purchasing a 2004 ES 330. However, the comments regarding transmission issues leaves questioning my decision. If you had it to do over again, would you purchase your ES 330?

    Crystal
  • jragosta1jragosta1 Member Posts: 49
    I'm honestly not sure.

    When I bought my ES330, I drove a number of cars. Frankly, there wasn't even any contest. My wife had just bought a Volvo at the local Infinit/Volvo dealer and they were offering me a great deal to buy my second car there. But I bought the ES330 without hesitation.

    At the time, the dealer acknowledged that there were transmission problems with the ES300. He said that they had been fixed with the ES330. Since both the engine and transmission were reported to be brand new, I figured it was a good bed.

    Had I known that the problem wasn't fixed, I just might be driving an Infiniti G35 today. Probably 50:50 chance.
  • toydrivertoydriver Member Posts: 227
    Good question.
    On the 5 days a week that the transmission basically behaves itself - I'd say yes.
    On the 2 days that it clunks into gear or hesitates during an anticipated shift, I'd say no and I start thinking about what I want to trade it in for - Volvo S60/S80, BMW 330 xi, wait for the new GS model. Maybe a Crossfire roadster.
  • dennydenny Member Posts: 17
    My 2004 ES330 transmission is getting worse as time goes on. In an earlier post I complained about how sluggish the transmission was. Now, with 1,400 miles, it also jerks, balks, surges, hesitates, and shudders. Most of these occur when slowing down for a stop or turning a corner, but not exclusively. Some occur at highway speeds also when you decellerate momentarily. The dealer checked the transmission control computer and says the car is operating as designed. I called Lexus HQ and all they did was call the dealer and tell me the car is operating as designed. Given Lexus' indifference and refusal to acknowledge they have a major problem with their transmission, my answer is a resounding NO. This is my first and last Lexus.
  • bgrahebgrahe Member Posts: 2
    I have been driving my father in laws car for a about a month now and I don't think the o/d is working. Can anyone tell me what they show on there tach when the car is running 75mph. I have called dearlers, but they just say bring it in. I want some backgrond info first. Thanks
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    at 75MPH i would think your engine should be turning at about 3500RPM in 4th gear, if your O/D isn't working, you should be seeing your engine turn at speeds in excess of 4000RPM@75MPH.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You can just count the shifts from a standing start.
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    After over 10K miles and almost a year on the bag, and more than a couple of throttle flooring, I sensed a 0.5 second hesitation this morning for the first time when I had to floor. The sequence was from the stop/light, gas just a little, and then off gas/slide for a few seconds, and then full-press the pedal. I sensed a very brief hesitation b4 it took off like it should. Now I have to say I almost never have to drive like that. It was an unusual situation where I had to make a short left and an immediate right to get on freeway. I did not stay on the outside lane as a safe driver would do because there're two huge trucks in front of me. Three's only one small car on the inside lane. But it turned out that the small car was slow when making the left and the truck was aggressive. I then had to merge in front of the truck. The 0.5 second delay did not really make a difference as if it would I'd not have tried to pass anyway, but it is indeed an expectation gap. If this is the only time a hesitation would happen (as it seems to mine so far), I'd have little problem as I'd rarely do this kind of aggressive maneuver, and I guess I'll refrain from that more. The otherwise merits of this car far outweigh this issue I have to say. But there's a hesitation behavior on ES that is true.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    As many of you know, I bought my ES300 in March 2002. During many conversations, I stated that I had driven multiple ES300s and could repeat the transmission symptom in all of them. I remain convinced that this is a vehicle design issue and I am convinced that I could repeat the problem in any
    ES300, even in those whose owners swear they don't have the symptom.

    Well, today as my vehicle was being repaired (I have had my brake rotors go, and my rear window motor go, and my rear window shade go.), I drove an ES330 loaner. I will confirm that the hesitation is still there, but it seemes slightly different. Specifically, the ES330 hesitation seemed longer, ie. I got the sensation of stepping on the gas with the car going nowhere (as others have reported). I have never felt that in my ES300 (I did NOT get the firmware mod.) My ES300 (and the other ES300s that I drove) had a much jerkier transmission but not as long a delay.
  • toydrivertoydriver Member Posts: 227
    atoews reports that the hesitation in the ES330 is worse than the ES300, but less jerky than the ES300.

    My questions are for owners of '02 and '03 ES300s who have had the trans. software upgrade. (upgrade is reported to be same as software for the '04 330).

    Did you notice MORE hesitation after the upgrade than before???
    Did you notice less jerkiness after the upgrade than before???
  • davidzdavidz Member Posts: 35
    I've been enjoying my new ES330 for over a week now and I'm very comfortable with the transmission so far. Here are my observations after about 500 miles of driving.

    It has an "intelligent transmission" that adjusts to your driving style, but I'm finding that I'm adjusting to it. If I ease into the throttle slowly, the car responds very nicely. At first the acceleration is mild, but it's definitely there. Since the car is so smooth and quiet, you're not sure at first if it's really accelerating unless you look at the speedometer. Then, when it shifts into gear you get a nice punch. The delay in shifting is not a problem, since you're accelerating. You just don't get the burst of the downshift immediately, but it comes soon enough.

    When I test drove the demo, I noticed that if you really punch the throttle at the outset, the car definitely hesitates like it's confused at first. The car doesn't respond well to that style of driver. But if you have a sensitive foot that can "feel" the engine through the throttle, the transmission is quite satisfactory, IMO.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    Davidz: My uncle owns an 02 ES300 and I have driven that car own a few occasions. What you say is exactly right. I didn't feel the problem probably because I wasn't driving it in a way to induce the problem. Btw, the ES330 does 0 to 60 in 7.2 seconds. It is hard to imagine a car with a hesitation problem accelerating that quickly.
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    atoews, How did you induce hesitation on that 330? Full throttle at no speed or low speed, or...?

    "Btw, the ES330 does 0 to 60 in 7.2 seconds. It is hard to imagine a car with a hesitation problem accelerating that quickly."

    I rarely sensed hesitation flooring from a full stop, although I don't do that much. It's up and down and fully up that's hesitant one time. But I'd agree that this is really a corner case to me, but may not be for people who floor more often at any moment.
  • atoewsatoews Member Posts: 637
    I can repeat the problem at low speeds (45 mph or less) by pulling back on the accelerator, reducing gas flow, and then trying to reapply the gas immediately. The transmission will definitely not keep up.

    I disagree with those who say the problem is caused by "aggressive driving". I also totally disagree with any theory that says that the adaptive "learning" aspect of the transmission causes the problem.

    Note that although one can repeat the problem at will, doing certain actions, that sometimes the problem occurs with no warning. It mostly happens when one starts up after a stop sign or when making a turn (when you make a turn, you tend to pull back on the gas during the turn, and then you try and reapply gas after the turn.)

    Note for the record, that I am one of those drivers who is only mildly annoyed by the transmission problem because:
     a. you can exert some control over how often it happens by adjusting your driving style.
    b. The positive features of this car outweighs my annoyance with the transmission.

    c. I have never experienced a dangerous situation (very long hesitation) in my vehicle. The hesitations in my car seem to last less than one or two seconds at the most.

    I drove an RX330 (last year's model) as a loaner once, tried to repeat the problem in it, and discovered that the problem is not in the RX330.

    I also note, for the record, that my boyfriend, who often drives my car, and I are both aware of the transmission issue, and still find this car a very desirable option, when compared to its competitors. His top pick for his next car (he currently owns and old Camry XLE) would be the ES330 and I would purchase my car again having to make the same choice over again.

    Unlike myself, my boyfriend could easily afford a "GS" but does not see an $8000 price difference as being worth the difference in the two cars.

    I say all this, because many are looking to this board to decide whether or not to purchase the car for the first time. I just want them to know that many of us out here are fully aware of the problem but considering everything are happy with our vehicles.
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    Aggressive driving won't 'cause' hesitation itself, it just induces the hesitation symptom more easily. Take the usual slow down to make a right, off gas while making the turn, and gas up after the turn. If you floor it after turn all the time then you might feel the hesitation more often than just a mild acceleration after a turn, like I usually need to. In fact, I've never sensed hesitation w/o a fully hard and quick pedal-down, after an off-gas cruise. I don't sense much jerking at all. Would've gotten this ES again in a heart beat. I'd still think that people who feel strongly about ES tranny behavior must sense more than what I do.
  • sarahsarah Member Posts: 19
    I bought my ES330 in april after getting all my info from this site. I have made two long trips so far and have over 3500 mils. I just came back from a weekend trip. I can now confirm what I've been reading here about the transmission hesitation or lack of response. Although I don't consider it as a major problem as I've learned to drive the car the way it wanted to be driven,few times,I got aggressive and step on the gas too far after stop, that's when the car hesitated and jerked forward but not far enough as to hit the car in front. Another real experience was when I was trying to pass a car from the fast lane and inadvertently, I took off my feet from the pedal and step back on the pedal immediately after and had to press harder for the car to jerk up to speed. I could sense the hesitation to sudden speed which I imagine could be a problem if there was a car tailgating me. Overall, I'm happy with the car with its reputable ride but just a little disappointed that I have to always remember not to drive aggressively.I'm actually more annoyed at the cup holder that was a little too wide for the standard size water container that everytime I extended my right arm a little to my right,I would knock the water off the holder.It happened also when the car suddenly stop,the force was strong enough to knock the container off the cradle.
  • miamimikemiamimike Member Posts: 1
    I have had my ES330 since September 2003 and have driven it 12,000+ miles. I am not a car buff, I just wanted a safe, reliable, luxury car that drove nicely. When I go to pull out into traffic or pass another car, my ES330 hesitates. I am not being picky but I find that this is very dangerous because cars are coming at me and I am just sitting there staring at their headlights like a deer waiting to be killed. Luckily I haven't been stuffed and mounted yet ;-). I am not being overly sensitive but I would NOT recommend the ES330 until Lexus admits there is a problem and fixes it. I have had three regular maintenance trips. All three times the dealers (2 different dealers) have said that they are unaware of the problem. HELLO, read Edmunds.com! And, from the postings here, it appears that this was also a problem with the ES300. Nice customer service Lexus; are you reading this? Do you care?

    I have been on two long trips and enjoy the car otherwise. I find that the gas mileage is nice.

    I am not in favor of purchasing another Lexus but my wife is really interested in the RX330. Question: Has anyone found the same problem with the RX? Thanks in advance for your help.
  • jragosta1jragosta1 Member Posts: 49
    I've heard of rare complaints on the RX330, but they're apparently far less common than on the ES330. I don't know if the difference is due to user issues or if there's a real difference in the vehicles.

    Your best best is to drive one to find out.

    Personally, I liked the RX330, as well, but decided to go for luxury rather than utility. I am not so sure this was the right decision.
  • igibanigiban Member Posts: 530
    You got to test drive or test pass to find out. I had an RX330 for loaner once and compared to ES it's not as quiet and smooth.

    I have a 03 ES300 and most of the time I simply need to press pedal half way to pass or merge. 210 HP isn't much these days but it seems to be enough for all practical purposes. The typical judgegment I use is that if I have to floor the throttle in order to pass a car, or I can tell the other car's driver is aggressive, then I would just let the other car go first. I am not a very aggressive driver to begin with so it's never an adjustment for me. I'd not have bought ES for spirited driving to begin with, although I am not saying whatever hesitation behavior is a right one. It just never bothers me in real world driving.
  • jerry5jerry5 Member Posts: 2
    I had planned to purchase a ES-330 in about six months but after reading some of the transmission experiences of owners, I am hesitant to spend over 30K to experience the problems for myself.
    Is there any info coming from Lexus/Toyota that a fix may be forthcoming?
    I have considered the Acura TL, but don't need the performance, and feel Lexus will hold value better.
  • jragosta1jragosta1 Member Posts: 49
    I've seen at least one report saying that Lexus claims that they'll have a fix this summer. Frankly, I don't believe it for 2 reasons.

    1. They claimed that the ES330 didn't have the problem. I specifically asked the dealer if the problem was fixed before I bought my car and he said it was. He was wrong.

    2. I've been trying to get resolution from Lexus Customer 'Satisfaction' for a few months and their only response is 'it's normal'. If they were close to having a fix, I would expect that someone would say 'we have identified the problem and expect to have a solution soon. Please be patient'.

    I don't think they're going to have a solution any time soon. I'm almost certainly headed for arbitration.
  • jragosta1jragosta1 Member Posts: 49
    I filed for arbitration today. We'll see what happens.

    One of the things I plan to do is bring in all the complaints to NHTSA to show that Lexus knows it's a problem. For the 2004 model year, 11 of the 36 complaints on the RX330 are from this same issue. 22 of the 29 complaints on the ES330 are the same problem. I haven't yet figured the percentages for previous years.

    Clearly, the more people who document their complaints, the better the chance that Lexus will fix the problem. So, again, I would encourage everyone who experiences the problem to file a complaint at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/.

    I'll keep everyone posted.
  • dennydenny Member Posts: 17
    I spoke with Lexus HQ about 3 or 4 weeks ago and it was clear that they are still in denial. They say their transmission on the ES330 is operating as designed. They said that if any changes to the trans software are made that current owners will be notified. I would recommend that anyone considering this car should look elsewhere. As long as 330 sales remain strong Lexus will not fix this problem. I will take jragosta's advice and file a complaint with the nhtsa since some of the things that the 330 trans does badly are safety hazards( hesitation and lurching). I've owned enough new cars to know that the way the 330 trans operates in not normal, especially a brand that places itself in the luxury segment.
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/job.aspx?modelid=11036&src=- - - - vi

    I just wish more attention had been put into how the transmission and engine worked together in the test car.

    Lexus said it "revised" the old tranny to better handle the new power. And for 2004, it had "new grade logic" for the transmission to perform better on descents and ascents on hilly roads.

    But in the test car, occasional, clumsy-feeling upshifts came through to passengers. There were enough of them during my test drive that I wondered what had happened to the silky-smooth shifts that I had so enjoyed from the predecessor ES. I also noticed occasional hesitation, as if the transmission was indecisive about which gear to be in, when I traveled on hilly highways


    This is a review from msn carpoint. Notice the part about the transmission. The reviewer clearly felt the jerky transmission shift and the hesitation. Just wondering if this is what some owners are feeling? Incidently, I have also surfed the Avalon forum. Nothing but satisfied owners. Makes you wonder how two very similar cars made by the same company can create such different ownership experience.
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