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Comments
The 2004 Avalon has the "old" 4 speed auto transmission that was in the 2001 and earlier ES 300 models. The 2002-2004 ES 300/330 models have the 5speed auto with (drive by wire) electronics - which is the transmission of contention in this website. The 4 speed was "silky-smooth" and had satisfied (happy)owners.
Edmunds is predicting that the new 2005 Avalon will have the 5speed transmission (unhappy) when it hits the showroom.
It will be interesting to see if a new "transmission problem" website will be started by someone for the Avalon later this year!!
Anyway, thanks a lot!
Info we found from Toyota #TC005-03 "Technical Service Information Bulletin" (not for general public) This addresses ATM shifting issues with the 2004 Rx330. So Lexus obviously knows somethings not right.
fremontrobocop@yahoo.com
keep you posted
There seems to enough people buying car without noticing any transmission lag and loving the car for this to be really such a widespread problem.
I'm looking to buy one but am waiting for the 2005's to arrive to see the differences.
Happy driving to all!
I wrote a letter to the CEO of Toyota North America and the Lexus VP & General manager and received no help with this problem. DO NOT BUY THIS CAR !!!
just got my es330 back last night. they drove it for a week+ and admit shifting/hesitation issues. they feel that not all es330s hvae this problem and dont know way some do, werd. the loaner i have had just has the pause/hesitation issues obviously "operating as designed". they are good people at fremont magnussen, i have dealt with top sales dude "neal", he is far and honest, no i didnt know him prior to buying our last es330 few months ago. he will treat you fair for sure. neal knows that issues on shifting and hesitation has come up, but has not exereance the shifting issues he says. we are going to see them this week, they said that they will make it right for us, im not a gulible person but believe they will.
this isnt any type of sales pitch but buy your lexus in fremont, im 50 and have bought dozens of cars in my live and these guys are custemers first, well may be money too, they got to pay the bills.
if i were to do it again i would buy the upgrade GS or and older GS. good luck
Has anyone else heard of this?
2004 & 2005 = ES330
i have taken it back three times and the service guy finally told me it was due the "drive by wire"
feature. will most likely buy another vechile because of this. almost had several wrecks due to slow take off.\
rhpcpa
You can check the frequency of these problems on nhtsa.dot.gov. For the 2002-04 ES, about 1/2 or more of the cited problems are due to the hesitation problem. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think the total number of problems related to this issue is approaching 100 for the 3 years combined (out of roughly 200 total problems cited).
For the 2001 GS, there are only 7 complaints - and NONE are related to the hesitation issue. The same is true of more recent years.
I would suggest that you have the dealer look for another cause. If it were really due to the same problem as the ES problem, there would almost certainly be more complaints.
While the problem is particularly bad in the ES, it seems like pretty much all 5-speed automatics suffer from it in one degree or another. Driving the previous generation Maxima SE recently was such a breath of fresh air.
Can anyone suggest a car with a similar level of refinement and luxury, which would not have the problem? I can go up to $50K. Right now I am considering the upcoming Acura RL, but obviously haven't test-driven it yet. Any alternatives?
The more research I do, the more it becomes obvious that nearly every Lexus model has this problem. I guess they just don't know how to fix it. Their only response is to pretend that it's normal.
By the way, it doesn't appear to be solely a transmission problem. It's actually a problem caused by the way the transmission and drive by wire work together.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/recallsearch.c- fm
Use the box on the right side
Click on "Vehicle"
You can search any manufacturer. Lexus's record is extraordinarily impressive.
Also, you can search JD Powers for their awards.
http://www.jdpa.com/studies/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=860&CatI- D=1
Myself, I am set in my ways and will buy the Acura TL. I'll trade looks over reliability. Different strokes for different folks.
I have to admit the luxury line is getting very exciting as manufacturers are starting to focus on the interior layout and amenities.
http://www.autospies.com
Do your homework!
The transmission problems are with the 2004 LS 430 and not the 2004 ES330.
You need to look over the site again.
Also, 13,000 recalls for the LS 430 is a VERY small number compared to other recalls (One manufacturer has 1 million recalls)
I can't believe I'm defending Lexus when I don't plan on buying one. It's a great car, and the transmission is smooth. I test drove one just to see and was impressed. But I'm a young guy who wants a car to have a "bling bling" appearance. Otherwise, I would go with Lexus.
Interestingly, you don't even seem to own one of the affected Lexus models, but you'll insist that my statements are false.
Check NHTSA like you've suggested. But instead of looking at recalls, check for consumer complaints. You'll find over 100 complaints on the 02-04 ES300/330 models related to this problem. You don't get 100 complaints that are imaginary. Nearly 1/2 of ALL ES complaints have to do with this particular problem. It's real.
You could also try:
http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3584&
The problem is that Lexus refuses to admit that there's a problem - so they haven't recalled the car. And until there are a significant number of accidents, the DOT won't make them. That doesn't make the problem any less real.
Apparently, it's a combination of things. First, the drive-by-wire controller is stupid and can't respond in less than a second or two in some circumstances. Second, Lexus programs their cars to move into higher gear as early as possible - which means more downshifting which is where the problem is most severe.
Perhaps that's the reason Lexus won't fix it. They can't simply recall one model - they'd have to recall nearly their entire product line. To make matters worse, they would apparently lose ULEV status if they make the fix (based on the fact that they are able to fix the cars in Canada where there is no ULEV issue).
Bottom line is that Lexus knows there's a problem and is stonewalling for some reason.
I am also looking into the 2005 ES 330 and have heard about transmission problems. Here is what was said on another popular discussion board. The first is by a car expert (test driver) and the second by a user. Hope this helps
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If you drive around in D4 all of the time, you are effectively limiting your five-speed automatic to a four-speed automatic. This may limit problems if the car tends to shift in and out of 5th gear around town but your highway fuel mileage will suffer.
Most automatics now are electronically controlled - it's nothing special. I've seen a fair number of Toyota/Lexus owners complain here about shift behavior. I put a few hundred miles on our ES330 and didn't have any complaints about the shifting. Some automatics "learn" driver behavior and adjust shift points accordingly - that may affect this issue. It won't be a safety hazard; the worst ramification of the problem is that it makes a very smooth and refined car less smooth. We haven't seen any marked number of transmission problems in recent Toyota/Lexus products.
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When I bought my new es330 month ago I faced little shifting issues. I later learned that I was driving in wrong gear(D). I was told to drive in D4 gear and Shifting issues has practically gone away. If you have any questions give me call at 408-391-3146
I suggest you test drive this car a lot before making this purchase. I test drove comparable cars like g35, 325 and s60 sport. But after driving es330 they dont even come close as far as smooth ride, quietness is concened.
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First, putting the car into 4th gear all the time lessens the problem, but does not eliminate it. I've tried it and the problem still occurs - just not as often.
As for 'it won't be a safety hazard', he's dreaming. When you step hard on the gas, there's often a second or two delay before the car begins to accelerate. In many situations (like pulling onto a busy on-ramp), that second or two hesitation could cause a serious accident.
Finally, as for 'we haven't seen a marked number of transmission problems', he sounds like a paid Toyota spokesman. This problem is widespread as evidenced by over 100 complaints to NHTSA, hundreds of complaints here, and other web sites with hundreds of complaints.
1) Denial - many people don't want to
admit they made a bad purchase because it is
too painful
2) Lexus name - they can't have a transmission
problem - "it's a Lexus"
3) Mine works - therefore yours must
All illogical - and all display a lack of understanding the big picture about how vehicles are manufactured. (Every year cars are manufactured with major problems).
I believe that the most likely reason for the varying reports is that the degree to which each driver perceives the same symptom varies.
I also suspect that varying driving styles result in different frequency and intensity of having the symptom occur.
I actually was a passenger in a vehicle (not an ES300) where the driver did not maintain a steady gas flow to the engine even while maintaining a constant speed. The driver kept backing off and depressing the accellerator to the point where I felt as though she kept slowing down and speeding up ever so slightly. Such a driver would find the ES300 transmission a nightmare!!
I have a 2004 Sienna with the same engine/tranny config as the ES. The hesitation is terrible there too. Even my wife, who never has any complaints about acceleration says it is terrible.
I attended Lexus' Taste of Luxury event this weekend, and let me tell you the hesitation is painfully obvious when you move from one car back to the ES or RX. You can floor it and wait for 1-2 seconds for it to respond. Try flooring the BMW 330 or 530 or the Infiniti G and see what happens.
Overall Lexus/Toyota build great cars but the new trannys need help.
i also test drove a 2005 camry xle v6 and noticed the same problem there as well. no wonder toyota has already started giving $500 cash back on the camry's in barely their first month of the new model year!
other than this, the es330 had a smooth and quiet ride with a luxurious feel. after the es330 experience i was hoping to test drive the acura tl, but its interior was revolting, to say the least. we didn't even bother for a test drive on the acura.
it's amazing that inspite of this being a known issue for a long time, toyota/lexus has not bothered to rectify it for the new model year.