Transmission problems with Lexus ES?

vanboy · November 2004

Test drove a 2005 ES330 last week and noted that the transmission HAS CHANGED. The gear ratios are a little tighter and the final compression ratio is a little higher. The brochure shows the 0-60 at 7.2 seconds whereas the 2004 is at 8.9 seconds (or something like that). Didn't notice much of a hesitation but then again I only drove it for 10 minutes or so. By the way, I test drove this one in Canada.

jragosta1 · November 2004

Canada - that's the difference.

Canadian ES cars are not ULEV - and don't have the problem. Even the '03 and '04 ES Canadian cars didn't have the problem.

maxhonda99 · November 2004

8.9 0-60 time?? I think the last time a magaine tested a ES300 it was around 8 seconds flat 0-60.

grandtotal · November 2004

Canadian ES330 is ULEV.

jragosta1 · November 2004

OK. So it's ULEV II for the US and ULEV for Canada. Anyway, there's a difference in the pollution standards which apparently accounts for some of the problem.

You can find the details at the Lexus Owner's Club forum.http://us.lexusownersclub.com/

motownusa · November 2004

The US version is SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle) while the Canadian version is ULEV. Consequently, the transmission and throttle are calibrated differently.

grandtotal · November 2004

The US version is SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle) while the Canadian version is ULEV.

That is not correct, as pointed out by a previous poster the US version is ULEV II. See this link ES link

vanboy · November 2004

The brochure says the Cdn. version is also ULEV II. Has anyone ever asked to see if there were transmission changes for the US version for 2005? The 2005 Cdn. brochure doesn't explicitly state anything. It was the salesman who pointed out the change and the change in the performance numbers in the brochure. It does have a different final drive ratio and compression number.

kads · November 2004

Texas83

We've got a hesitating Highlander, same 5 speed auto/drive by wire problem as the ES and RX.
Am very interested in your posts as we're about to file under Texas' Lemon Law.
Wondered if you could give me any pointers on working thru the system and any specifics of complaint claims that seemed to carry the most weight?

Looking forward to your reply. Thanks

KADS

greathanny · November 2004

I test drove a 2005 and also didn't notice the hesitation (in the U.S.). Has anyone else purchased/test driven and noticed the hesitation problem? Previously, I test drove a 2003 and did notice the problem. Just curious if the problem might finally be fixed in 2005 models.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2004

To Those of You Who Have Been to Arbitration:

Did you get a decision right after the meeting or did you have to wait a few days?

kads · November 2004

Thanks much for the pointers.

davidz · November 2004

After starting my 2004 ES330, putting it into drive and taking my foot off the brake, the car lurches forward big time. Does anyone else have this problem?

Is this part of the well-known tranny problem or is it something else? It's not so bad as to be a safety issue, but it's pretty poor considering the price of the car and the "pursuit of perfection" blah blah, blah...

lexuswows · November 2004

i have a question i have a 1992 es300 when i put the car in drive it moves put when the rpm falls below one the car doesn't move this just happened two days prior i noticed that when i put the car into reverse it would shake a little but when in drive it rode sweet until today i was driving and the car started slowing down and it wouldn't budge what does that sound like

Mr_Shiftright · November 2004

lexuswows---you have a duplicate post here. Try to avoid that if you can. Your question was addressed in the other forum in which you posted.

bill14 · November 2004

I took my Lexus to another dealer who had no problem identifying the rattling problem with the front seat and replaced it. This dealer listen to what I had to say, checked the seat out, and decided that there really was a problem. The first dealer just put the seat in a position where it didn't rattle and called it no problem.

velostic · November 2004

"Upon further review of your service history, Lexus has determined that there is nothing defective with your vehicle's transmission. It is operating as designed."

Thank you for sharing this documentation from Lexus allig8r. This legally and politically shrewd B.S response is a recurring theme which tells me (as a newbie) they are well aware of the problem, but chose to ignore it. Saying that it doesn't exist doesn't make the problem go away, yet that seems to be their key response.

I was seriously considering buying a ES330, but am back-peddling after reading this thread. Until an accident or class action suit occurs, the only other action I can think of (in addition to what people are doing, especially in contacting the media) is building power in numbers through protest aimed at their bank accounts.

I know one person is a drop in the bucket, but I wish to write to them and tell them why I am declining Lexus in the hopes of helping others. I would encourage others in my position to do the same.

I am disappointed because I really like the smoothness and speed of the car, which I have only found in more expensive vehicles. If it weren't for this one (substantial) problem, my exhaustive search would be over. Further, the "passionate pursuit of perfection" claim is offensive and in my mind, a fraudulant statement, especially given the growing number of complaints over such a long period of time.

I went to their website, but there is only a PO Box for Customer Assistance. I would imagine that such a letter would get put in the "whatever" file. Does anyone have a name and address for a key decision maker at Lexus?

My sympathies to everyone who has suffered from this and thanks for all the information.

hogan4 · November 2004

I just got my decison and I lost. They said in a 5 mile test drive my car operated as designed. Did not even look at the evidence that I put on the table for them to review. I went though the NCDS in Dallas. Who did you go through? I need to try another angle to get rid of this very poor automobile.

hogan4 · November 2004

Please let me know how your case goes. I lost mine, but it does not mean I will accept it. They did not even review the evidence I put in front of them and based some of their decision on a 5 mile test drive. You can contact me @ 214-707-8840

hogan4 · November 2004

Thank you

hogan4 · November 2004

I had mine on 11/12/04 and received my response on 11/23. For me it was bad news, but I went through the "Lexus Dispute Settlement Program". Have to wonder if the name had any bearing on my case. Should have gone throught the BBB.

hogan4 · November 2004

I was just curious as to how long your test drive was. I was allowed 5 miles to prove my case. I asked for a comprehensive drive but was denied by the arbitrators.

es330suck · November 2004

I just trade in my 2004 es330 with 2000 miles on it. I took a big loss for my worset dicison to purchased a Lexus months ago. It was a beautiful car, but driving the car is mentally torture, My 1987 nissan pick up was running much smooth than the es330.
Before anyone ready to purchas the es330, make sure you test drive the car you want to buy. Do stop and go in slow speed severl time as well as stop and go in traffic ligh sititution.

toad2 · November 2004

I have read the many posts regarding transmission problems in the ES330 and ES300. I test drove a new 2005 ES330 today. The vehicle drove well and I could not find any hint of hestitation or lurching. At want speed or condition do you find the transmission acts up? Do you find that the transmission starts to show the defects only after the break-in period? I liked the vehicle but I am a bit gun shy. Your comments would be appreciated.

amykkbc · November 2004

What cars/vans you're and/or previously driving?
I think the hestitation experience could be in relevant to what you have driven before. In other words, if you're used to 1 sec. hestitation, you may not notice anything if it's 1.5 sec. and also depend on how hard you press the gas pedal, some people never get in to the situation of down shifting, then they won't notice the even longer hestitation in down shifting.
I've noticed many toyota's have longer pause than honda's in shifting. And if you're coming from a manual shift, which has 0 delay and 100% control, the hestitation in toyota's auto transmission may become even worse, and may make you very uncomfortable and worse yet feel the car uncontrolable.

greathanny · November 2004

Toad2 - See my post 639. I agree with you. I didn't notice the hesitation problem. Back in 2003, I test drove a 2003 model and did notice the hesitation problem. By the lack of response to my question, it may be that the hesitation problem has been fixed in 2005, or that many of the posters have not test driven a 2005. The other problem (harsh downshifting) I didn't notice in the test drive of the 2005. Did you? I agree that the 2005 ES drives very well. I too am considering a purchase but have been gun shy with all these posts.

kietty · December 2004

I had gotten an 02 ES300 from my dad as a grad. gift. I had lightly wrecked the front passenger side in may, but the car was professionally fixed. I have 39000 miles on it right now. I always had the hesitation problem. My check engine light came on last night and this morning, the car just died after slowly braking. I was stranded for 2 hours. Roadside Assistance brought the car down to the Lexus dealership(1.5 hours away). They told me some throttle mechanism had to be replaced and blamed it on the accident. Being 18 the dealership would not give me a loaner car. I had to wait 3 hours for my dad to come sign the loaner paperwork. They gave me an ES330. On my way home, the car had the same hesitation problems like my ES300. Just wondering: Has anyone else had a throttle mechanism replaced? Hope this fixes my problem.

buckwheat · December 2004

Problem acknowledgement:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04345/424551.stm

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04343/423383.stm

Sylvia · December 2004

Summary from a member's experience (not mine, so please don't email me about it...)

In Texas, you need to have presented your car to the dealership four times for the same problem. Be sure you keep receipts. You must also contact the manufacturer, not just the dealership. I would recommend a return receipt mailing to present at the hearing. It costs $35 to file and there is a website that tells you what qualifies for a hearing (through the Texas Lemon Law Ct.)

The judge will give you an opportunity to settle things before the hearing gets going. That failing, you present your documentation and discuss the issue a bit. Then you drive the car. You come back and discuss the issue some more, possibly present more evidence if you have it. The judge may make a decision then and there, or he/she may take 60 days. At the hearing, Lexus agreed to buy me out less some cash. I was appreciative. I'm through with the process and wish the rest of you the best of luck in your endeavors.

myes330transpr · December 2004

CANT BELWAVE I READ THIS POST. A WEEK AGO WE JUST TRADE IN OUR 2004 SE330 WITH 2500 MILES ON IT, ONLY BECAUSE ITS HISITATION AND SHIFTING PROBLEMS. WENT TO HAYWARD NISSAN FOR THE TRAID IN AND BOUGHT A 2004 MAXIMA. IT RUNS GREAT AND LOOKS GOOD WITH ALL THE PLUSSES. WE ARE DOWN 8000 BUCKS AND JUST LEARNED THAT HAYWARD NISSAN DEMANDED A NEW TRANSMISSION FOR OUR TRADE IN AND GOT IT. OUR PROBLEM WAS WE ASKED FOR A FIX FOR OUR TRANSMISSION PROBLEMS AND WAS TOLD SEVERAL TIMES IT WAS "DRIVING AS DESIGNED". THE LEXUS SERVICE MANAGER EVEN TOOK OUR ES330 HOME FOR TWO WEEKS TEST DRIVING IT. WE LOST ALOT OF TIME AND MONEY. THE LEXUS IS A LOOKER ONLY. BUT WE DO HAVE FRIENDS WHO OWN THE SAME EXACT CAR AND LOVE IT DESPITE THE HISITATION ISSUES.

peterpan · January 2005

I test drove a 05 ES330 this week and found the 1 to 2 seconds hesitation as I stepped on the accelerator in stop and go.

At the next stop, I stepped harder on the accelerator to make sure it move. The car hesitated then lurched forward far more vigorously than I felt comfortable.

The LS, GS and IS all start instantaneously and smoothly without hesitation in stop and go. I felt the problem more likely throttle response unique to the ES330, rather than transmission.

jragosta1 · January 2005

I know you're probably sick of the whole issue, but is there any chance you could get documenetation from Hayward Nissan that Lexus replaced a transmission for this defect? If I can show that they did it once, it makes it much more likely that I can get my dealer to do it.

Thanks.

fastbyte · January 2005

Just want to thank all the members of this board and Edmunds.com. I was considering purchasing a 2005 Camry or Lexus ES300/330 until I read about the tranmission problems, and the unacceptable attitude and response that Toyota has had towards its loyal customers. I am an unhappy 03 Accord owner who was looking for a more reliable vehicle, and I will not be looking for a Toyota product because of their poor customer service. (There isn't even a email-contact on their websites!).

-Scott in NH

ursa major · January 2005

There is most definitely a lag in throttle response. I often "downshift" to gear #3 to accelerate from a stop. I have also pointed this out to the dealers, but received no satisfaction. Now I have test driven numerous cars, and enjoy driving the Audi A4 3.0, Acura TSX and TL, and BMW 3 series, Infinti G35. All of them have better response and handling than my ES300, for which my lease is up in March. The problem is that in reading the Edmonds boards, I cannot determine which competing sport or luxury sedan REALLY provides the best reliability with fewest complaints! I have enormous respect for and appreciation for the quality control and almost negligible problems five Lexus have produced for me. However, I want to change to a sportier, more athletic ride.

jragosta1 · February 2005

Personally, if I had it to do over again, I'd buy an Infiniti G35 (but I'd replace the silly metal components on the dash/console with wood). The G35 is not as luxurious as the ES330, but it's not too far behind. It offers more room and a much sportier ride. The only complaint I've heard about the G35 is that the seats aren't that comfortable. I didn't notice that in a short test drive, but you might want to take an extended test drive to be sure.

I almost called my local Infiniti dealer and offered to give them a testimonial against the ES330 if they traded me even up for a G35, but decided it's probably not likely to happen, anyway.

atoews · February 2005

What about the IS if response and handling are your priorities?

kreativ · February 2005

To find out whether it's your ES in particular with this problem or all ES's in general, the easiest way is to request to sit in a loaner (or new) ES at the dealership when you're there for service. If the memory function behaves exactly like yours, then you know it's not just your ES. If it functions as it should, then you can demonstrate to the service manager that there is an issue with your ES in particular. And that he shouldn't be blowing you off with an "it's designed that way" excuse.

toyo_z · February 2005

Our 2003 ES300 with only about 30k miles did something horrific today, and i'm wondering if it could be related to the tranny issues that people are talking about (yes, my car has the hesitation problem, but i've learned to live with it. this was something totally different).

Pulling out from the garage, going <5 mph (the car was basically rolling forward near idle speed), stepped on the gas, and the car wouldn't go any faster than idle. I even tried flooring it, and still, the tachometer wouldn't budge! The car continued to creep along at idle. The engine didn't race at all; it was like the message from the pedal wasn't getting through to the engine. My understanding is that this car has no real direct mechanical linkage between gas pedal and the rest of the drive train, and a fancy computer works out how much gas to provide.

Thus, when i had the car towed to my local mechanic, he just scratched his head.

The car is now sitting at the local Lexus dealer & i'm awaiting a diagnosis. I have to say, it's been a very long time since i've owned a modern car that's left me stranded like this, and with only 30k miles to boot! :-(

jragosta1 · February 2005

As I've explained earlier, one of my biggest complaints about the way Lexus is handling this is their insistence that the car operates as designed.

Now, if they said 'some drivers experience a hesitatation but we don't think it's severe enough to cause a safety issue', that would be better. Insisting that the car is DESIGNED to have a huge lag for many drivers is just plain offensive.

WHy do I bring it up now? I just took my car in for its 20,000 mile service and asked them to look at a few other things. One of them is an item I've complained about at least 5 times. I like my seat all the way back. I move it back and program the memory to stay there. After my wife drives the car (she moves the seat way forward), I hit the memory button to return the seat to the furthest back position - but it doesn't go all the way back. It stops about an inch short. I've taken it in 5 times and they always say they can't duplicate it.

Today, the service manager said 'oh, yes, we've seen that problem before and it's designed that way'. Huh? They designed it to go to a different position than it was programmed? And if it was designed that way, why didn't they tell me that the first 5 times?

Again, an honest answer would have been 'because of the tolerances, it's not unusual to get an error of 1" or so in the memory settings, but we have never found a way to avoid that' or something like that. Telling me time after time that I'm imagining the problem is the worst possible customer service.

I'm even more convinced that this is my last Lexus. I just talked someone else out of buying one today.

turnbowm · February 2005

From what other posters in various forums have indicated, the hesitation problem has NOT been solved in the 2005 ES330.



I recently test drove a new 2005 ES330 and the hesitation was VERY noticeable. Others have suggested that the electronic throttle is a contributing factor. I was also contemplating the purchase of a new ES330, but a real safety issue is suggested by the sheer number of complaints filed with the NHTSA.



Hesitation problem aside, the 2005 ES330 offers a VERY comfortable ride with a well-designed interior. In driving the car, however, I had a strange feeling of being DISCONNECTED! A very different driving experience from my wife's '98 ES300.



For those who value comfort above all else, however, the ES330 is an easy choice.



Martin T.

turnbowm · February 2005

The sheer number of complaints (almost 100 over the 2002-2005 period) filed with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) suggests that the hesitation problem poses a real safety issue.

It's interesting that pre-2002 ES300s with 4-speed automatics and mechanical linkage between gas pedal and throttle control didn't have the problem. Makes you wonder if they're the ones with the advanced technology!

Martin T.

toyo_z · February 2005

So the dealer called me back today, the computer that runs the engine needs to be replaced. This is really distressing, since the car is only a couple of years old and had it been out of warranty (it's getting close), this is a kilobuck+ repair.

Maybe the replacement unit will take care of some of the tranny issues too, but i doubt it.

Is there a thread anywhere on edmunds discussing the over-computerization of modern cars?

I think the pendulum has swung too far on the side of technology, and since the late 90's cars have actually been getting less reliable.

scoti1 · February 2005

Regarding over-computerization - check out the Engine Hesitation discussion forum and a recent posting by User777 -- some interesting discussion on this issue.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef4cdbd/180

Also, FYI, there is a new Post-Gazette article posted in that forum about NHTSA considering opening an investigation on the hesitation issue:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05036/453222.stm

mrdlexus · February 2005

I hope a formal investigation is opened, this problem has gone on long enough!! The hesitation and poor shifting has destroyed an otherwise beautiful car. If Toyota/Lexus can permanently fix the problem I would purchase another ES, but if they don't I will look to other car manufacturers. Hopefully some bad publicity thrown at Lexus will motivate them to fix the problem. If you look at all the complaints towards the ES a very high percentage is for the throttle/transmission, very few complaints about anything else. Fix this problem and Lexus will definitely have the best car with the highest owner satisfaction. All you have to do is look at the JD Power rankings for the 04 model year, mechanical quality is about equal to a Hyundai!!!! The pre 02 ES's were awesome, lets get back to where we were a few short years ago.

jragosta1 · February 2005

The problem with the memory issue is that it takes several days for it to appear. I drive the car with the seat all the way back - and set the memory. My wife drives it with the seat forward. I move it back. And so on. I might have to spend all afternoon in the car to make it happen - and the dealer would simply say "there's some variation, but yours is within acceptable limits" anyway.

shocaser · February 2005

I have an 04 ES330 and had a problem with the memory on the drivers seat. I am 6' 5" tall and set the seat all the way back, tilt the front all the way up and tilt the back of the seat all the way down. After setting the memory 1 button, the settings would gradually move. After 4 weeks, the memory would be off at least 1".

When I took the car in for the 5,000 mile check-up, they fixed the creaking from the seat, but told me they could not duplicate the problem with the memory. They also suggested that I change brands of gas to eliminate the rotten-egg smell. They did not fix the rattle that I was hearing from the dashboard.

When I picked up the car I reset the memory. I took the car back in 1,000 miles later for the passenger seat recall. I showed the tech the amount that the seat moved. They replaced the entire driver's seat. They also found that the dashboard rattle was from the wiper blade assembly and fixed that. But now, the drivers seat is creaking again.

turnbowm · February 2005

Recently talked to a Lexus salesman who admitted that every 2005 ES330 that he has driven exhibited the hesitation problem! He went on to say that a totally new throttle control system will be used in MY2006, which will take care of the problem for once and for all.

As a related point of interest, drove a new 2006 GS300 with the new 6-speed tranny and 3.0L V6 with the new throttle system and I was very impressed. NO hesitation and the upshifts/downshifts were flawless!

Martin T.

atoews · February 2005

This kind of thing irritates me. If Toyota/Lexus does not admit that there is problem, then how can this salesman say that the 2006 will fix the problem? The salesman is hoping that a new throttle control design will fix the problem, but there is no way he can be sure. There is no way he can be sure because if Toyota won't admit the problem, then there is no way the salesman knows the engineering/design details that caused the problem in the first place, and therefore he can't be certain of how the problem will be fixed.

My own view is that the problem will likely be fixed with a new design, but there is no way I'd rely on this being true. As a potential buyer, I'd want some way to prove it to myself before I bought the car.

turnbowm · February 2005

I'm sure that Toyota/Lexus is well aware of the problem, but to openly acknowledge such could provide grounds for litigation with disastrous financial consequences.

I do not believe that there is a quick and easy fix for the problem, otherwise Toyota would have made it. From what I understand, they have already tried ECM software changes without success.

I will not purchase an ES330 until I am totally convinced that the hesitation and tranny issues have been put to bed.

Martin T.

jragosta1 · February 2005

How can you tell if a salesman is lying?
His lips are moving.

My salesman told me that the problem would be fixed in the '04 models. Unfortunately, due to company replacement policies, I had to order it before any arrived in the country for me to drive. Once I received my car, it didn't take long to realize that the salesman was flat out lying.

Transmission problems with Lexus ES?

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