Transmission problems with Lexus ES?

toyo_z · June 2005

Hi, looking for help/advice from anyone on the board

I'd posted in February that my 2003 ES300 (with a little over 30k miles) suddenly died as I was driving it -- that is, the engine was still running & electrical system apparently working, but when i stepped on the gas it did nothing -- the engine didn't even rev, it was like the signal was not getting to the engine to give it gas. I could push the pedal to the floor, but it was useless. I coasted to a stop, had it towed to the dealer, where they replaced the -entire- ECM computer (under warranty, thank god.. this would be a multi-kilobuck repair otherwise.) They weren't particularly apologitic, but did say it was "very rare" for the computer to suffer this kind of failure.

Fast-forward to this morning, only a few months later. I was driving on I-95 in South Florida (if you've ever driven it, you know its like the Indy 500 but with people who really shouldn't be driving). As I was getting onto the highway (the on-ramp), again the same thing happened -- the gas pedal stopped responding to inputs. Thankfully, i was able to coast over to the shoulder & I left the car there to be towed (no way was I going to sit on the shoulder there! talk about a sitting duck..)

The car is being towed to the dealer now. I feel that this is a major safety issue, as I could easily have been killed. I no longer feel confident in the car -- even if they replace the computer again, how do I know this won't happen again? This car needs to go.

Who can I report this to, either at Lexus or the NHTSA? I suspect that the dealer that its going to (the one that replaced the computer) won't really care too much about my plight; they are the highest-volume Lexus dealer i the world, and customer service isn't their big strength.

I find all of this terribly disappointing; my 10 year old bucket-of-bolts Subaru is at this point a more reliable car than the Lexus, which was supposed to be a much more "Special" ride.

Any help would be appreciated.

atoews · June 2005

This does not sound like the same issue as the hesitation that many have written about. I have not heard of any other poster who has had the problem you describe. This indicates a problem in your individual vehicle as opposed to a design problem. The upside of an individual vehicle problem is that if all else fails, a different vehicle will fix your problem. Some posters on this forum have recieved new cars in response to their complaints on the hesitation issue, but the new car did not help them, because the new car had the same problem.

The frustrating issue you are going to have to deal with is that your problem is intermittant. Whenever you can't repeat a problem on demand, it is difficult for any service tech to diagnose and repair the problem. It is difficult to prove to anyone that there is a problem.

Hopefully, Lexus will give you a new car, without requiring proof that you can repeat the symptom should you continue to have the problem and should Lexus be unable how to fix your car. Some posters on this forum have been given new cars, even though the new car did not alleviate their problems to the degree I'd expect a new car to alleviate yours.

If I were you, I'd "squawk" the problem in as many forums (NTHSA, Lexus customer service, various dealers) as you know about. Unfortunately, I don't see much alternative other than to continue to complain to the Lexus dealers, beginning with the one you purchased your vehicle from. Hopefully, one of their service departments can fix your car under warranty.

You can also take the "Lemon Law" route. Posters who have recieved new cars mostly did so in response to Lemon Law complaints.

atoews · June 2005

Well, I had the transmission upgrade last week as part of my 30000 mile maintenance and my car is working much worse than before!! Since my results are so inconsistent with what others on this forum are saying, I wonder if Lexus service personnel did not do the upgrade correctly or if something else in the maintenance caused my symptoms.

Prior to the TSB implementation, i could repeat the problem at 40 mph by pulling back from the gas and then reapplying the gas quickly, as which time there would be delay before gas would get to the engine. Also, I'd have the problem intermittantly at other speeds, but mainly when trying to accelerate.

Now, I get intermittent shuddering at all speeds and the 40 mph problem is the same as before. The shuddering, although intermittent, is much more frequent than before I had the fix. And I don't have to be accelerating or decelerating to get the problem.

I have shuddering consistently when I come to a stop, regardless of the speed I am going just before beginning to slow for the stop. Also, I have some shuddering at highway speeds even when I am not accelerating.

I will post back if I find anything further. I am hoping that I will adapt my driving style to this "fixed" condition, like I did prior to having had the fix. If things get better, I'll let you all know, but as of right now, I'd advise against having the fix.

amf1932 · June 2005

Well, you're the first person that had this problem after this last upgrade. I would say there is something definitely wrong. Nobody that's reported back has complained about a shutter. Here's a link with about eight pages, starting sometime in 2003........read the last few pages, and it'll give you some idea about what others are saying about this newest ECM flash.
Click this

atoews · June 2005

Yes, I know I am the only person who has problems with the upgrade. Even my boyfriend and a friend of his are happy with it. My issues must be from something else they did during my maintenance.

ruff1 · June 2005

I had the latest transmission upgrade on 6/8/05. I have driven about 100 miles so far with it.
There is an immediately noticeable difference from the old program. I like it. No hesitations or shifting lags. The shifting rpms appear to be a bit higher than before especially when accelerating rapidly. Also, when going up a long steep grade, it has a tendency to downshift more easily and frequently than before. I slid the shifter to the left in 4th and it seemed to eliminate the downshift. Mileage appears to be unchanged at 20 around town and +25 on highway. I may buy the car at lease end after all!

ctdriver76 · June 2005

I am about to buy a new ES 330 this month (June 2005).

Should I still be concerned that the transmission problem is unfixable?

I have 2 relatives that have an ES...
First relative has a 2003 ES - has transmission problems
Second relative has a 2004 ES - NO transmission problems.

Thanks for the help!

bkinblk · June 2005

If you have to ask the question, you probably already know the answer.

toydriver · June 2005

I own a '03 ES and had the upgrade done a few weeks ago and have subsequently driven about 1600 miles (both highway and city stop and go).
My car shifts better than prior to the upgrade, but not "perfect". By perfect I use my old '95 Toyota Avalon 4sp auto as a comparison. The ES still seems hesitant during stop and go, but doesn't jerk like it did prior to the upgrade. The shift points are clearly higher, meaning that when rapidly accelerating from a stop the engine will reach as high as 4000 rpm prior to shifting into 3rd and 4th. It seems that the engine races during these accelerations, but I don't mind that as much as the pre-upgrade "jerkiness". I feel that the transmission is still "learning" my driving style as it seems to be a little better now than when I first drove it after the upgrade. (Reason for hope).

On the other hand; while mine was being serviced, I drove a '05 ES 330 dealer loaner that had all the characteristic jerkiness, hesitation and "gear-seaking" behavior that mine did prior the the upgrade.

Read into my comments as you will.
Frankly, I really prefer driving my summer roadster ( Honda s2000 ). At least I understand this car when it "jerks" a little !!!

ruby1 · June 2005

This is in response to few emails. My dad purchased the ES 330 in January 2005 and I purchased mine in August of 2004. He has not experienced any problems with the transmission and I have had mine "serviced" (and I use that term lightly) 4 times already. They were supposed to install the "upgrade" the last time the car was in the shop. Let's put it this way, I was almost rear ended twice in the last week because this engine SUCKS! Thank goodness the people behind me were good drivers. My problems only occur between 10mph - 25mph. I'm looking into the IL Lemon Law to see if I can get my money back like a couple other people have already done, in their respective states. I've had numerous other problems with rattles etc. and would never buy nor recommend this car to anyone.

jragosta1 · June 2005

I had the update installed a few weeks ago. For the first week, I was ready to push the car off a cliff. It was extremely clunky and shifted very, very hard. The hesitation was mostly gone, but the hard shifts made me ready to take it back in.

However, after I drove it a few hundred miles and it adapted to my driving style, it was much better. The hesitation is greatly improved (although not completely eliminated) and the hard shifting is almost gone.

I STILL do not think that this is the shifting you'd expect on a $35 K luxury car, but it's far, far better than it was before the upgrade - and will probably continue to improve as I get a few hundred more miles.

Definitely worth doing if you're unhappy with the shifting of your car.

shocaser · June 2005

Picked up my car on Wednesday, June 15. Had the 10,000 mile service done and the transmission firmware upgrade. There is a clear improvement in the transmission with this upgrade. I agree with others that it is not a 100% fix, but the car handles and accelerates much better than before. I am still a little disappointed in the car (with the reputation that Lexus/Toyota has, I expected a much better car and much better service), but this upgrade has solved most of the problems. I will post again in a month or so to update.

ruby1 · June 2005

We have all seen the emails and most of have written responses to the hesitation problems in the ES 330 engine. I have gone round and round with my dealer and will finally get my day before the Lexus Regional Representative. Here is the scoop that I got last night in reference to them taking my lemon back. The LRR states that the lawyers for Lexus have stated that they will not replace anymore cars that have the "transmission chip" failure that causes the hesitation in the ES 300/330. They stopped "replacing" cars last year because it was becoming too costly to the company. However, they won't send out a recall because they are worried about how many complaints will come into the company and how it might affect sales. Those words came from my sales person at Lexus.
The deal they offered me (over the phone) was $1000 off a new GS because I told them I didn't want another ES. I laughed at that offer and told them that I would fill out the paper work for the IL Lemon Law and we could handle it through the attorneys. (www.ag.state.il.us/consumers/lemonlaw.html) I also stated that I want to proceed with a face to face meeting with the LRR. It amazes me that they aren't willing to stand up and face their problems. They pitch customer service and satisfaction but shrug problems off by saying we can't help you. This is a safety issue with me more than the frustration that it happens everyday that I drive. Has anyone else been successful in getting their money back or getting the car traded in for a new one, :mad: at the cost that the car, at the time of purchase? My car is 10 months old and has 6200 miles on it. HELP!!!
-Ruby1

motownusa · June 2005

aren't you aware of the TSB that has been out since April ? Seems it does improve the hesitation. Haven't your dealer mentioned it to you ?

whit66 · June 2005

I am about to purchase a 2005 ES 330, do you feel the transmission problem has been corrected on the newer models? If there a document I might get my hands on so when I go into the dealership I question this transmission?

whit66 · June 2005

How can I get a copy of this TSB, since I am about to purchase a new ES 330

motownusa · June 2005

I believe any car produced after April 1, 2005 already has the TSB done. Here is the link to the TSB. You can take it with you to your Lexus dealer and ask them whether it has been performed on the cars sitting on their lots. Good Luck.

http://www.mycgiserver.com/~nonlinear/TSB.pdf

amf1932 · June 2005

UPDATE

This is the situation, and my feelings after driving my '03ES for about 2000 miles after the latest ECM flash. I'm really not as happy as I was when it was first done.
It all comes down to a trade-off that the Lexus technician's did to try to improve the shifting quality.
Today, I was driving on a parkway for hours in stop & go traffic, and instead of the hesitation and lurching happening at about 5mph, it now happens at about 20mph......plus there is a slight clunking when decelerating(downshifting) that I never felt before this ECM flash. Also, I don't like the shift points when accelerating normally.....they're much too high, and I think the fuel economy has to suffer because of this higher engine RPM. I feel that the car will no longer achieve 'ULEV' status!
I don't think that Lexus can undo this last flash, and I reached a point where I'm ready to get rid of this car, even though I'm happy about everything else. This is my 3rd. ES and I was 100% pleased with my '91 and '94 models. The BIG problem I'm having is to find another car that is as good as a Lexus.
I know I have to calm down after this horrific traffic today, but the thought of having to live with this type of crappy performance in the future is driving me crazy!
Any suggestions without anybody telling me it's because of the electronic throttle, I'll be all ears.

motownusa · June 2005

How about the upcoming IS350 ? or GS300/460 ? Although the GS might be a bit pricier than the ES I haven't heard of any transmission problem with the GS.

atoews · June 2005

My car seems to behave in a way that is opposite to yours since I had the fix. My car used to jerk and hesitate at aboout 40 mph, and now it does so at both higher speeds and lower speeds and always at about 5 mph when coming to a stop.

Since almost everyone I talk to is pleased with the fix, it makes me wonder if it is something else they did during my 30,000 mile maintenance that is causing the problem Could it be that they did not adjust the idle correctly or somethig, I wonder? I don't like to say this is part of the transmission issue because I don't know and it could be misleading.

Oh, well I guess I will have to take it back to see if they can figure out what the issue is.

bornmfg · June 2005

Had trans problem of jerking when pulling out, dealer fixed that and then trans would not shift out of 3d gear, back again, NOW the worst going 65mph and you slow down to 30 to 35 and try to continue and you put foot on gas pedal to continue 35mph and nothing, you have to step down hard to get car moving, very dangerous when getting off a exit, and you try to continue at 35mph, you either die when being hit in rear or you die when hitting car in front of you because you stepped down all the way on gas pedal, LEXUS tells me this is the way the car is suppose to work, (BS), I have tried Customer service in Ca. but the lies continue like ENRON everybody knows nothing, GOOD LUCK

smirror · June 2005

I can not believe that you would still want to buy the ES330 with so many complaints about its transmission. Even with the firmwave upgrade, the problem is not fixed. So why take the risk? There are so many other luxury brands out there. You don't want to live in such a pain everyday like I do with my 05 ES. Wake up!

jb7750 · June 2005

I AM HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM AS THE REST.
MINE IS NOT TRANSMISSION IT IS GAS FUEL MIXTURE .
MY DEALER SERVICE MGR TOLD ME THIS PROBLEM
HAS BEEN OCCURRING SINCE 2001 AND IS NOT ON THE BOARD TO REALLY FIX
IT UNTIL 2007 PROBABLY A NEW MODEL.
I EVEN RECEIVED THE SUPPOSED FIX AND 6/26/05 I HAD THE JOY OF ACTUALLY CHUGGING ACROSS AN INTERSECTION BEFORE THE THE FUEL CAUGHT UP WITH ACCELERATOR. FROM MY POINT OF VIEW THE ES 330 IS JUNK AND THOSE WHO SELL IT KNOWING IT HAS THIS PROBLEM ARE EXACTLY WHY THE CAR BUSINESS HAS THE STIGMA IT DOES.... WHORES.

bikegal · June 2005

Another view. I have 7,400 miles on my ES 330 2005. Aside from some surging going less than 5 miles per hour, and it's not consistent,I have no complaints. I haven't had the "fix" and I got the car in December.

Good luck.

jragosta1 · June 2005

There have been some complaints on the GS. You can go to NHTSA.org for information.

If you go with the IS, you could always get the manual transmission - which would eliminate the problem entirely.

beardie · June 2005

Last week my 05 330ES was in for it's 5000 mi. service. I spoke to the service manager re. the hesitation problem and the latest TSB. He talked me out of doing it now, due to it being not tested long enough, and once it's
done, you must use premium gas for proper performance. Has anyone else been told this? With the price of gas going through the roof, I kind of like sticking with 87 octane!

shocaser · June 2005

You should check your owner's manual for octane requirements. I have an '04 ES 330. The manual states that for optimal performance, a minimum octane of 91 should be used. What I have done is run premium most of the time, with an occasional half tank of mid-grade.

whit66 · July 2005

I just bought a pre-owned 2004 ES 330, and come to find out it seems to loose power between 5 to 15 mph. It is as if when you push on the gas pedal there is nothing there and then it takes off. Is there a known cause for this or a solution? Does anyone know since I have had this car for only five days is there anything I can do to make the dealer correct this?

whit66 · July 2005

Have you had any problems with hesitation at very low speeds, 5-10 mph

shocaser · July 2005

I had the same problem with my ES-330. I live in Northern Virginia and deal with heavy bumper to bumper traffic on a daily basis. I had serious problems changing lanes when traveling between 5 and 15 mph. I would hit the gas pedal and the car would actually slow down for 1/2 to 1 & 1/2 seconds, then surge forward. This, of course, almost got me into a few accidents. I had resigned myself to not being able to merge or change lanes with this car under heavy traffic conditions. However, with the firmware upgrade now offered by Lexus, the car does respond much better. It is not a perfect fix. The transmission works fine most of the time, but sometimes it shifts very suddenly and very roughly. However, so far, the patch has repaired most of the problems.

I have noticed that my gas mileage seems to be done from an average of 20/21 to and average of 18/19. But this could be a result of my driving the car differently right now. I am trying to duplicate problem conditions to see how the car reacts. This, or course, means that I hit the gas a lot more, which does drag down the mileage. So far, I have only driven the car about 500 miles with the upgrade. I will post again after a few thousand and let you know how it is going.

Good luck with your car. I hope it works out for you.

whit66 · July 2005

Can tell me what grade of fuel you use? I was wondering if there is a difference between 87 to 91

k1mri · July 2005

I have my heart set on the ES330 2005. With some of the stories I've read about the transmission problem, I'm having second thoughts. My sister BTW owns a 2004 RX330 with the same problem.

Should I buy the 2005 ES330? Is the problem fixed? I just called a Lexus sales manager and he said, "...what transmission problem?" YIKES!!!! :mad:

Please let me know what you think. Thanks!

bikegal · July 2005

I asked myself that same question. I went ahead and got it No regrets.

Go ahead and drive some 2005s. Mine has an inconsistent surge/lurch when traveling at low speeds, like below 10. That I can live with.

I must point out I am seldom in stop/go traffic.

In all honesty, there was no other car like it. I considered the G35, pretty on the exterior, yucky insides, didn't like the acura.

Good luck.

shocaser · July 2005

I run premium (93) most of the time. However, I do occasionally put in a half-tank of mid-grade (89). This averages me to an octane of 91. I haven't been using the mid-grade much recently, since there is such a small difference in price.

erasmusmrr · July 2005

Can we put regular gas in the es 330? I was told by the dealer that i could.

shocaser · July 2005

I am not aware of a specific problem that regular (87 octane) gas would create when the engine requires 91 octane. But I am not a mechanic. I do know that the manual says to use 91 octane or higher for "optimal" performance, what ever that means. I do not remember it saying that the engine "requires" 91 octane.

When I purchased my '94 SHO, the salesman told me that it only required 87 octane. When I read the owners manual, it said that premium gas was required. Obviously, I do not trust what any salesman tells me about a car. They are usually trying to make a sale and will say what ever needs to be said to make it.

As I understand it, the octane rating on gas is a measure of how much the gas can be compressed before it sponaneously ingites. The higher the number, the higher the gas can be compressed. Spontaneous ingition of gas is commonly referred to as knocking. The higher the compression ratio for the engine, the higher the required octane. Higher compression ratios are commonly used in engines to boost horsepower. If a lower octane is used, the engine is more likely to knock which, over time, can lead to damage to the engine.

Here is a link to a pretty easy to understand explanation of what octane is and how it works.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question90.htm

shocaser · July 2005

I just checked my owners manual. It calls for 87 octane, but suggests 91 octane for "improved performance". So I would say that regular gas is fine.

beardie · July 2005

I have had my ES330 for 4 months now...it's a lease, so I'm not afraid to use the 87 octaine. I have not had any problems related to the octaine. The transmission hesitation exists, but that will not be solved with higher octaine. No knocks etc. with 87. If anyone saw 20/20 last night, they mentioned one of the biggest myths is that higher octaine is better for your car. Only approx. 10% of the cars on the road, those with very high compression engines, require higher octaine. The 330 does not fall into that category! With the price of gas today, I can't see going higher grade!

oldfart2 · July 2005

I agree with you that some owners don't experience the problem.

I bought a 03 es300 in Feb of 2005 with 17k miles on it. It was the Dealer's loaner.

I asked for a copy of the service record and that showed 3 recalibrations had been
done on the powertrain. I have 21k on the car now and have had no noticable problem
with the transmission. My wife drives it to work daily and every other weekend we take
a trip 150 miles north of here to a place we have on a lake. Lots of hills and winding roads. No problems.
This makes me wonder what is going on. Perhaps my problem will show up later or
maybe since it was a Dealer loaner, they got most of the bugs out of the car before
they sold it to me.

One of lifes mysteries.

toydriver · July 2005

Most owners who experience the poor shifting describe the symptoms as being most noticeable during stop and go driving while in city rush hour commutes.
That was my situation ('03 ES 300 now with 28,000 mi on the clock).
I had the most recent TC004-03 firmware update done about 2700 miles ago.
It has helped with the stop and go "jerkiness" and hesitation. The shift points are higher ( higher rpm ) since the update. Some owners have described this as the car engine racing.
I agree with you that on pleasure trips at consistent highway speeds, the car operates flawlessly.

shocaser · July 2005

Well, I have now driven my ES 330 about 1,300 miles with the firmware upgrade. The hesitation problem is almost completely gone. The car has gotten smoother the more that I have driven it. While it is not a 100% fix (still some occasional rough shifting), if the car had been like this from day 1, I would have said that there are not problems with the transmission. I have noticed a drop in average gas mileage. I was averaging 20/21 in the city and now average 19/20. But I am pretty sure that the drop is because of my driving, not the upgrade. The car is much more driveable. I do get on the gas more, mainly because the car now responds.

I do think that the upgrade confuses the computer. The average gas mileage figures that the computer showed before the upgrade were usually pretty accurate. Now, the computer seems to consistently show mileage 1/2 a mile or more per gallon less than actual.

All in all, I have been very pleased with the results of the upgrade. Before, I was ready to get rid of the car. Now, I think that I will own it for many years.

whit66 · July 2005

with all the trouble you with your car, has Lexus tried to make you happy? Since you are not happy and many others what are our options, have you contacted Lexus Corp office?

es4jb · July 2005

I read the posts about the transmission and bought the ES330 anyway a week ago. After about 500 miles I can say that I do understand what the issue is. The vehicle hesitates when moving between 1st to 2nd gear. It's kind of like a fluttering. It is noticeable and a bit annoying. It's the only reason that I can't say I love the car. It seems to me that on a $30K near-luxury vehicle this is not what I expected. Am I disappointed? Overall, no. The worse moments are coming around a corner when the vehicle has decelerated and then you want to accelerate coming out of the turn. There is a noticeable lag or hesitation or lurch. I have learned that firm steady pressure on the "gas pedal" helps. This is not a car for the lead-footed among us! But then again it's not a sports sedan so I suppose it was never designed for the leadfeet. The interior is still nicer than anything in its class. Still, it takes away from the overall sense of smooth ride that Lexus is famous for. I can't give this vehicle a "10" but "9.5". From what I have read there is not much to be done; this has something to do with the computer controlled throttle and transmission on most Toyota/Lexus vehicles.

scoti1 · July 2005

Did you purchase your car new? If so, it should have already have the software upgrade to correct the hesitation problem. Maybe you should take it in, just in case the upgrade wasn't done (and if it works, you will have a perfect 10!).

es4jb · July 2005

I did buy it new but I am not entirely convinced from reading posts on this site that it will help. I figure I am going to drive it until the 5K mile service and if I it still bothering me then I will inquire about the firmware upgrade. 500 miles is just not long enough to make a decision like that.

scoti1 · July 2005

You need to read some of the reports from folks who have gone to arbitration over this. Recently bkinblk reported his arbitration results in the Engine Hesitation forum. Based on his report, it sounds like it would be in your favor to get this documented with Lexus ASAP, even if you don't want them to try to fix it yet. Let them know you want to give it some more miles to see if it will go away, but that you want to make them aware of the problem. Hopefully, the problem will go away, and if not, the software upgrade will do the trick. But it sounds like you should be prepared for the worst while you are hoping for the better.

denny · July 2005

Just another data point on the software upgrade. Had it done on my 2004 ES330 about a month ago and it hasn't helped one bit. The hesitation, sluggishness, and all the other things this transmission does poorly completely ruin the driving experience every day. Can't wait until I get rid of it.

hogan4 · August 2005

I'm with you. I have 52K on my '04 330, and have had the computer reset 7 times. Lexus even swapped an ECU computer from a demo, still a problem and embarrassment to drive when I have customers in the car. But Lexus still says there is no problem, that's why they have upgrades for the computer!! Go figure

sportsden · August 2005

and, while it doesn't match the BMW driving experience, I thought it was extremely smooth, quiet and enjoyable. I am considering buying one but all these reports of tranny problems and Lexus not fixing it has me concerned. Should I buy one if my test drive(s) indicate no problems? Those who bought/own one, did the problem exist from the beginning,i.e. would a trouble-free test drive help?

shocaser · August 2005

If I had experienced the problem when I test drove the car, I would have never bought it. Have you ever looked at or test driven a car with problems and still bought the car? The difficulty with this problem is that it does not show itself in a test drive. It shows during normal, everyday driving. Did you test-drive the car in slow, bumper to bumper traffic? Did you drive the car at 10 -15 mph and try to accelerate? Did you try letting the car drift at 10 MPH and hit the gas? These seem to be the main times that my car had problems. I must admit that, when I test drove my car, I never thought that I would need to test it this way.

Transmission problems with Lexus ES?

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