Subaru Crew: Suggestions for Subaru

ateixeira · June 2005

I guess I should make a point after all that, eh? :-)

My point - I'd like to see Subaru offer engine options that aren't packaged along with several thousand dollars worth of equipment.

Unfortunately it seems that MY2006 is doing just the opposite, the turbo engines in the Forester and Legacy/Outback will now require higher equipment levels.

-juice

dino001 · June 2005

We also need to add that the market research is done around "what sells now" rather than more intangible qualities such as brand "buzz". It is of course a valid point of view, but if you continue alienating enthusiasts, you may lose in long term big time. Best examples are GM, Nissan or Mazda. The latter two found their ways back, but see what was happening to them in 90s when they were chasing Camry crowd. They did not get them, but they lost enthusiasts. I don't even want to talk about GM, it is not worth it.

I generally have no probolem with AT being an option, or even standard, as long as manual can be at least special ordered. Similarly with other stuff.

I understand conflicting forces here, between simple configs, easy to manufacter and market, but part of a niche/upscale segment is choice. Back to enthusiasts: for big guys like Toyota, one enthusiast may be per 50 regular customers (in case of Camry the ratio is probably 1 to 1000

) . Subaru's ratio is much, much lower - you must be some kind of a nutcase to go for it at the first place (try to explain to your Camry neighbor why you paid 5 grand more for something smaller or try to explain you BMW neighbor why you think AWD is better). Most of their customer choose them for very particular reasons, whether it is technology or image or otherwise). If they keep ignoring those who care to tell them what they like, the future may not be as bright (fortunes sinking ??

).

I have my WRX for over 2 years and will probably stick to it for another 2-4, depending on many things. My next car will be midsize, this I know. I like 6 cyl, I also like manual, 6 speed would be nice, I want wagon. Choices? BMW, Audi (not right now, but wil be available in the future) and... that's it!

I like their concept and technology, I just want to give them a chance to bring to me something I will like and something I will not have to give my arm and leg for. I may go with Legacy GT Ltd, by why oh why do I have to give up 6 cyl?

dino001 · June 2005

What makes Spec B profitable in Europe/Japan that it not in USA? How many of those did they sell in Europe?

ateixeira · June 2005

Who knows if it is profitable?

We only know that it's sold in those countries, and that most likely it costs them less to certify those models for sale in those countries than it does in the litigous USA.

Spec B is coming here, but might be watered down a bit. It'll get the Bilstein suspension and big rims, probably some special colors, but not the 6 speed manual tranny we've asked for.

-juice

njswamplands · June 2005

ateixeira · June 2005

njswamplands · June 2005

hey stop putting everything into the title :P

paisan · June 2005

I short a few Spec Bs actually. Anyone have any good offers on Spec Bs? I'm a 25K bid.

-mike

dino001 · June 2005

I just recently run across several interesting comments about scientific marketing research in so called focus groups. First, it appearch all Detroit uses the religiously for their product development. We can see the effects of it, so perhaps all that "science" in not working very well. If Subaru uses similar groups than God save us all!

Another thing is that very often focus groups are used just to confirm intuition of executives (especialy male), but are afraid to admit as such and need "scientific" data to back them up. They simply throw away results they don't like and repeat studies until desired results. I just hope Subaru doesn't use those methods in their marketing research.

Another one: manual transmission. How many times I hear: it won't sell. Hello? Did you even try? How do you expect to sell them if you have one stripper on your lot? It is easier to sell automatic to a manual guy (oh, you won't find any around, I will give you a great deal on this one, and look how much better resale it will have) than the other way around. It is all about playing safe, which of course creates self-fullfilling prophecy. I personally know several manual people going automatic because of availability issue. Those people are different ages, differen walks of life, not very similar to me.

ateixeira · June 2005

I forgot you own the trademark for the "full post in the title" strategy. ;-)

I've participated in several focus groups, some are better than others to be honest. They definitely target the group to try to answer specific questions.

Never did an automotive related one, though.

-juice

bat1161 · June 2005

A couple of suggestions for the Tribeca following my test drive:

1) Telescoping steering wheel and pedals. I know lots of people have asked for the steering column, but the pedals are necessary as well for those who are a bit shorter in stature.

2) A back up sensor of some type. Even the salesman I spoke with recommended picking up an after-market back up sensor. With the size of the back window, it would be very helpful even necessary.

3) As noted by most people, more power. Once you are moving it is ok, but to merge onto a highway with a full load I can see needing more time presently.

That's it for the moment. Otherwise, I feel they did a nice job.

Mark

rsholland · June 2005

This is Nissan's new Micra C+C, with a 1.4L engine. I think it's a JDM model.

http://www.japanesecarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050615.005/pageview/photo/photo/Mini3/page- /1/nissan/1.html

Subaru might consider offering something like this, and have it positioned under the the Impreza. Maybe 1.5/1.6 boxer (which they already have) and with AWD; could be cool?

Bob

rsholland · June 2005

if Subaru does do a new Baja.

I could see this idea being used on the rear fender.

Bob

paisan · June 2005

I used to think they were dumb, they came std on the A and I LOVE them.

-mike

p0926 · June 2005

Well when you're driving a land yacht, you need the extra docking assistance :P

-Frank

rsholland · June 2005

Hmmm...

Granted, this is a bit severe, but it hints at what a B9 Tribeca 3.0R Spec B could look (somewhat) like, that I mentioned a few posts back. Dave, are you out thereand listening???

Bob

ateixeira · June 2005

Micra is a bit small and toy-like but I'd kill to see Subaru do a roadster. I prefer the B9SC by far, though.

Tribeca STi:

* grille inserts look *HAWT* I bet it would sell like crazy
* painted flares look better on this vehicle than the stock black ones
* some of the ground effects are a bit much, just paint them body color
* use a FMIC because the scoop is a bit much on this design

Heck yeah, though, that looks great!

-juice

p0926 · June 2005

I agree with Juice, the grill looks mucho better and Subaru could sell a bunch of them. Ground effects and scoop are what you'd expect on a Spec B but those 20" wheels look ridiculously the way they're completely filling the wheel wells.

-Frank

njswamplands · June 2005

rsholland · June 2005

A new and novel approach to the rearview camera.

http://www.japanesecarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050620.003

Bob

njswamplands · June 2005

ateixeira · June 2005

Love that? My wife would run, not walk, to the dealer to get that feature.

New suggestion - in Japan Subaru is now selling an R2 with a Utility Package that includes smart keyless entry - perhaps this is something that should be considered for the US?

Interesting that is debuted in the low-end cars.

-juice

rsholland · June 2005

Now why can't we get this, or at least give our Forester XT the Cross Sports suspension w/17" wheels?

http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester/crosssports/

Bob

bkaiser1 · June 2005

*That* is without a doubt the nicest Forester I've ever seen! Again, the best models never make it to our shores...

rsholland · June 2005

Well, what I'd "really" like to see is a "cross" between the JDM Cross Sports and our Forester XT.

By that I mean, give us the 17" wheels, and a tweaked suspension and quicker steering with more road feel. However, I'd like to see the ground clearance of the current Forester maintained. So it probably wouldn't handle "quite" as well as the JDM car, but it would handle better than our current XT.

Bob

ateixeira · June 2005

I love it! Black mesh.

In fact put it on the Tribeca and I'd be all over it!

Heck, put one on the Legacy too!

Subtle but nice improvement. Why do they get all the good stuff?

-juice

rsholland · June 2005

Another pickup rolltop bed cover. They even offer a version for the new Honda Ridgeline!

http://www.rolltopcover.com/

Ridgeline pics:

Video:

http://www.rolltopcover.com/demo.asp

Bob

ateixeira · June 2005

Neat product, but it does seem to take up 4-6" or so when retracted. That might eat into the small bed too much.

Let's see some innovation here, how 'bout one that slides out of the tailgate itself and wastes no space? Might be too heavy, but add counterweights or something.

-juice

rsholland · June 2005

Just build the "case" which it retracts into, into the rear bulkhead under the rear window. Right now it's a free-standing unit.

Bob

bat1161 · June 2005

Wouldn't they need to work around the bars coming down from the top? It appears to me that the "roll top" would get in the way. If not, it would be a nice feature, assuming it is a sturdy top.

Mark

rsholland · June 2005

Mark, I'm going on the (unrealistic?) hope that the Baja survives, and that if so, this would be planned for and engineered into an all-new model from day one. So no, I don't see this happening with the current model.

"Nice feature?" I think "Key feature" would be a better term. I think the Baja needs this to be standard as it would be a major selling point. One of the biggest complaints about the Baja, as it currently stands, is that it's not very practical, in that the bed is not secure from thieves. This roll-top cover would go a long way to ease that concern.

It offers the best of both worlds: an open bed (when needed) and a large secure trunk (when needed).

Bob

ateixeira · June 2005

No doubt. In fact there's no way I could sell my wife on the idea unless it had something like that.

I'd want some other changes, too, though - like more passenger space.

-juice

bat1161 · June 2005

Bob,

I agree with you regarding the security concerns from day one. The first time I showed the Baja to my wife she commented that without some sort of secure locking top, it was impractical for someplace like NYC. Back in Jan when we did the 48hrs drive, one of the drivers had a Turbo Baja with a home made pad locked top. A secure top has been demanded from the beginning.

Personally I've found the Baja to be appealling, but for my actual use it would need room for 5, along with the secure top. Till such time as Subaru has something like that I'll stick with my OB.

Mark

rsholland · June 2005

My wife too! That was her first comment/complaint! What is it with wives; juice's wife, your wife, and my wife???

Bob

ladywclass · June 2005

we shop .. we want a place to put our stuff out of view of potential thieves ...

we have kids' stuff ... we want a place to put their stuff out of view of potential thieves ...

we have purses ... we like our vehicles to 'enclose' our stuff like our purses ...

heck .. who knows? ... my cover is 'broken' on my OBW and i hate that i have no 'hiding' place

rsholland · June 2005

Actually Brenda, I think wives just have more common sense than us guys.

Bob

ateixeira · June 2005

I guess we should call them.

I think men envision hauling lumber, mulch, stone, etc. Cave men are we. :-)

The wives are just practical and know what will really go in there most of the time - groceries.

-juice

rangner · June 2005

As we all know, subaru is researching a boxer diesel. I found this interesting article about another opposed diesel engine design. Maybe Subaru is looking into this possibility as well.

link title

Advanced Propulsion Technologies Inc., in conjunction with FEV Engine Technology, designed the generator, which is about the size of a large briefcase. Its four pistons  two in each cylinder  operate under the opposed-piston, opposed-cylinder principle (OPOC), which leverages improvements to the 2-stroke cycle to generate thermal efficiency in excess of 41%.

The OPOC design, says FEV, generates extraordinary power density. A turbocharged 2-cyl. prototype generates 325 hp and 590 lb.-ft. (800 Nm) of torque at 2,000 rpm, yet weighs just 270 lbs. (123 kg).

Eric

subaruqueen · July 2005

You got your wish for the NAV bit at least. VDC, LL Bean and XT limited outbacks will now be available with NAV...I just saw the first one today, it looks good

rsholland · July 2005

True, but unfortunately only with automatic trannys (except the Legacy Spec

. Are you saying they are now starting to arrive at dealers?

Bob

ateixeira · July 2005

Color me converted.

I used to be in the camp that didn't ask for NAV, but after sampling one for a few days I want it! And not just on the priciest models, how 'bout offering on a Legacy 2.5i Limited? Or a Forester X Limited?

So far it'll only be available with the H6 or turbo engines, I'd like to see it offered on some 4 cylinder models as well.

-juice

rsholland · July 2005

This feature should be an option on every Subaru sold. It should not be just restricted to their priciest models.

Sooner or later some car company in the market segments Subaru competes in will do just that. I just hope Subaru is the first to do so.

Bob

ateixeira · July 2005

At just over $20k, why not an Outback Sport?

-juice

rsholland · July 2005

Yep, and this is a perfect example. BigElm just got a new Mazda3, so Subaru customers do cross-shop Mazdas and other FWD cars.

Bob

bigelm · July 2005

Yep. Granted, it's not touch screen but it's just as functional. Too bad I couldn't locate one with NAV but they ARE selling; hence the reason I couldn't find one. Mazda didn't think it would be such a popular request but they're not complaining.

I say Subaru needs to cover these "little" areas if they are seriously trying to compete in this segment. As a matter of fact, just do like Mazda does... I got the SP 2.3 which adds, leather, moonroof, LED rear lights (hatchback model only), rain sensor, xenons, auto on/off headlights, 17"wheels and some other goodies at a very attractive price.

That's good for people like me, who are buying a house and don't have much money to spare

Not to mention, keeping in touch with those who want a fun, reliable car without the "upscale" price. Come on Subaru!!!

dino001 · July 2005

Do you expect it fro free, do you think you'll be ready to pay for it? Add all those gizmos to the base price of Impreza RS/OB Sport and you'll end up with the bill of some $25K sticker, say $22-23 discount. In WRX you'll push $30/$28 respectively. This is dangerously close to "fully loaded" 6-cyl Camcord area. I also like "stuff", and am not a big fan of Camcord bunch, so it may have some appeal to me, too, but how many of us are out there? According to their scientific research, probably not more than five, since Subaru just dropped manual on their Legacy GT/GT Ltd wagon (which effectively put those cars outside of my interest, but who cares about some strange guy talking with a funny accent

).

ateixeira · July 2005

We'd be ready to pay. I found the feature extremely useful, and we tend to look at base models.

-juice

bigelm · July 2005

This is my problem with the way people think. If Subaru offered at least 'some' of the competitor's features or have them as options; there are people who are willing to pay just because they believe in Subaru (like myself). But when reality kicks in, then who isolates themselves, the consumer or Subaru?

Just offer it, even as options for base models, and people will pay! That's everyone's beef with Subaru, they just don't offer it and if they do, it's just high end models. Yeah.. that doesn't work for those who don't need to spend top dollar to get these little 'gizmos' or whatever you want to call it.

If they have the itch to move upmarket, then it's not like they can't offer it to other trim models.

rsholland · August 2005

http://www.06grandvitara.com/

I sure hope the next generation Forester is like this new Grand Vitara:

 Full-size spare
 Full time AWD, high and low ranges that lock in 4WD, and Neutral.
 Traction Control
 ESP
 IFS/IRS
 True off-road capability.
 5-speed automatic

While it's not mentioned on this teaser site, I suspect it has 3000 pounds towing, as that's what the current XL7 has. The 2.7L 185 HP V6 is more powerful than the the Forester H-4, but less so than Subie turbos or the H-6. It seems to be a very good compromise in size and power.

This site mentions the Rav4, so I think it's save to assume the Forester is also a target vehicle for this Suzuki.

Bob

rsholland · August 2005

I looked at the GV site again, and it does mention 3000 pounds towing. This sounds like an outstanding upgrade of the old model (granted the old model wasn't much to brag about).

Bob

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