Subaru Crew: Suggestions for Subaru

rsholland · April 2003

Small Platform

~ 178"183" length depending on application
~ 69" width
~ 102" wheelbase

Applications:
Impreza & Forester (also possible future Saab 9-1). Length and wheelbase up about 4" from current model. Width up about .5"1" from current models.

That should have been 2.6."

Bob

rsholland · April 2003

So far every 3rd-row seat equipped crossover I've seen, has a 3rd row seat that's designed primarily for children or very small adults. I'm really hoping that Subaru, with their upcoming 7-passenger crossover, designs the 3rd-row seating for full-size adults, thus truly bridging the gap between crossovers and minivans.

I see this as the next logical marketing frontier, and I hope Subaru is the first to market with such a vehicle.

Bob

ateixeira · April 2003

Just don't make it a boat. I don't want a 4400 lb monster. Keep it nimble and fun, maybe offering the interior space of the MPV.

-juice

rsholland · April 2003

Has anyone requested this yet? I don't thinks so...

In any event, I would much rather see a good easy-to-use navigation system instead of OnStar. In fact, I'd like to see a navigation system offered across the board as an option, and standard in top-of-the-line models.

Bob

paisan · April 2003

You guys crack me up!

You want 7 adult seats, yet don't want it to be a boat? What gives? How do you guys expect a car with a rear diffy, and adult seating to be nimble and light? Heck you don't even get adult seating in the Yukon with 3 rows! You have to jump to the Suburban/Excursion and maybe the Expedition class of vehicles for that 3rd row to be "adult" sized.

-mike

dcm61 · April 2003

And it has to meet juice's minimum of 20mpg in the city. :-)

DaveM

hypov · April 2003

Bob-
I think someone did... was it bat1161?

Should the navigation sys be made an available option, it should be availed at the heads up position instead of mounted along where the radio is.

-Dave

paisan · April 2003

It should be a pop-up dash style one in the center. It should also be an option across the board.

-mike

rsholland · April 2003

That's more juice's concern than mine. My feeling it needs to be as large as it needs to be in order to get the job done properly. I don't have a problem with a "large" 7-passenger crossover, if that's what it takes.

If you take the Honda Pilot, by many considered the "gold standard" of this breed, and add 4" to the wheelbase, you end up with a 110" wheelbasethe same as the B11S. Adding 4" to the Pilot would mean the 3rd-row seats would be livable for adults.

Bob

hypov · April 2003

to store driving style of at least two drivers.
Built-in/intergrated with the 2 driver memory power seat, when power seat is available.

-Dave

ateixeira · April 2003

paisan: Bob and I want different things. He wants a roomy heavy duty SUV. Bigger than a Pilot? Wow. I'd be happy with something much smaller than his vision. Even close to Pilot size would be OK with me.

Dave: you got me on that one! 20mpg would be impossible for city mileage. I may have to break my own rule. But I don't feel too bad, it was the Environment Dept here at work that laid me off! I should get a gas guzzler just to spite them. ;-)

Anyway, it might end up being the most fuel efficient 7 seater.

-juice

rsholland · April 2003

is not that much. It's still smaller than an Explorer by a good 3".

What I really want is to have all seats be adult-friendly. That's not the case now with the Pilot.

Bob

bat1161 · April 2003

Bob,

I agree with you on the Navigation system. I had previously mentioned having it offered at least as an option; if Subaru is trying to edge into the higher end market via the VDC, they should follow everyone else and offer the navigation in dash.

Dave/Mike: I'm not sure what the heads up system would look like, I've only seen the built in ones.

I also feel that both front seats should be powered, as I believe someone else already mentioned.

Mark

ateixeira · April 2003

If Subaru makes it that big, I'd probably stick with the next Legacy or Outback.

Navigation could be a dealer-installed item. Totally stand-alone.

-juice

hypov · April 2003

Mark-
most in-dash system are mounted where the radio is. I personally find that to be way too low. One has to take their eyes completely off the road to view the instructions on the screen. Not a good spot.

-Dave

ateixeira · April 2003

You should pull over to get directions anyway, unless they are audible or a co-pilot is reading them to you.

-juice

bsvoller · April 2003

I'm one of the ones who's been carping about 7 passenger seating, so I'll weigh in here a little bit...

I think I'm closer to Juice on this than Bob. I like the size of the MPV, which is available in Japan with AWD and the folding 3rd row, seats 6 adults in reasonable comfort and 7 in a pinch, or say, 4 adults and 3 sub-adults, or 4 passengers of whatever size and a ton of cargo.

The North American MPV without AWD weighs 3800#, has a 112" wheelbase and measures 187" long, so it's just one foot longer than the Forester. If you made it 1-2" wider and extended the front-rear adjustment of the middle row, it would seat 7 adults comfortably, but I don't know what it would weigh then. I think you'd still be well under the mid-4000# range that the full-size mini's are running now.

Handling is nice, it's no Miata, but it's tossable, to use Juice's term. Bump the power 10%from 200 to 225hp and you'd really have something, without going head to head with all of the behemoths that are already on the market.

-brianV

rsholland · April 2003

You're closer to juice, yet the Mazda has a 2" longer wheelbase than what I'm proposing??

I'm saying 110" (Pilot + 4" = 110").

Bob

ladywclass · April 2003

Is it just me or would it be nice to have a little more "contrast" on the instrument panel in the daytime. I have no trouble seeing it at night, but on bright sunny days I have trouble reading the temp, time, mileage, etc. ... and I HAVE THE GLASSES ON!!!

subearu · April 2003

No need to sell the MPV to us, we have one already! :-) It's not as spacious as the larger minivans, but is comfortable for 6 average sizers, 7 if you sit 3 kids on the 3rd row. Doesn't seem like it would be 'tossible' but it is indeed, holds a line very well. Suprising from a minivan.

I guess I'm confuses with all this 7 passenger vehicle talk. Does Subaru want to make minivan or a 'non-minivan' like the Pilot/Pacifica/etc.?

-Brian

rsholland · April 2003

that the all-new 119" wheelbase Sienna has a turning circle under 37'! So a long wheelbase doesn't necessarily mean cumbersome, or not being nimble.

Bob

ateixeira · April 2003

Bob's talking wheelbase, a long wheelbase is fine.

I just don't want to pilot (pardon the pun) a behemoth, so I'm concerned with overall length and curb weight. There are plenty of those already.

To me, a Pilot is just a tad bigger than I care for. The Explorer is too big. I think Subaru could do a Pilot, but with better space efficiency. VTM4 occupies a lot of space if you look under that vehicle.

Subie AWD is more compact, lighter, more efficient. Exploit that, if it's Pilot-sized but with more interior space, fine. If it's a little smaller with the same space, also fine.

And I will buy one, in either of those cases.

-juice

paisan · April 2003

I think what hypov and I are talking about isn't a heads up as in shot onto the windshield, but heads up as in mounted say on top of the flat part of the dash, like in the spot where the guage pod is on the Impreza/Forester. This would be a better spot for it IMHO.

-mike

paisan · April 2003

It may have a good turning radius but how wide are the tires? Wider the tires the greater the turning radius cause you have less room in the fender wells. I know my Trooper has a much better turning radius than the SVX does.

-mike

rsholland · April 2003

are either 215 or 225 in width. They're either 60 or 65 cross section, I don't remember exactly; my gut feeling is 65. The smaller tire is 16", and the larger tire is 17". All AWD models get the 17" tire.

Bob

paisan · April 2003

i guess the vehicle is wide enough to have enough room to turn the wheels a lot to get that small turning radius.

I was amazed at how tight I can turn the Trooper compared to the SVX and even the XT6.

-mike

rsholland · April 2003

It's as wide as the Honda and Chrysler minivans. 4x8 plywood will fit inside, flat on the floor, with the hatch closed; so there's at least 48" between the wheelwells

Bob

rsholland · April 2003

I'd like to see more applications of this feature used in other North American Subies. In other markets, it's used on every 5-speed, except dedicated performance models like the WRX, etc.

SOA, you've tested the waters with the Forester, I say it's time to spread it around a bit more.

Bob

bsvoller · April 2003

subearu: We're talking 7 passenger vehicles (or at least I am) because a lot of us outgrow the current Subie line with our families, and are forced to leave the brand. I know I won't buy an Outback to go with our Forester, because that combination doesn't meet all of my needs. And no, we won't become a 3 vehicle family until my son is old enough to drive, i.e. about 10 years from now.

Bob: Yes, the MPV's wheelbase is longer than you're talking about, but much shorter than the next size up. The full size "mini's" (they're not mini anymore, are they?) have wheelbases in the 118-120" range.

I want more carrying capacity than an Outback, but I will not own a bus, period.

-brianV

bat1161 · April 2003

Dave/Mike:

you guys mean placing the Nav system similar to where Dave has his Gamin? So long as it is not too big a screen that works for me. As for watching the screen, the technology has advanced so far that I don't see why it can not be voice prompted (ala SP III). Heck, they make the voice activated system as an add on for the pocket pc!

Mark

paisan · April 2003

But more in the center, and voice activated as well (most are)

-mike

subearu · April 2003

Gotcha. I believe we went to the MPV since we too didn't want to drive a bus either. I was all about NOT getting a minivan at first, my dw was all for getting one. The MPV was a nice 'meeting-in-the-middle'.

I don't think that Subaru should do something as big/long as the larger mini-vans. I'm betting that it'll wind up Pilot-like, built on the larger b11 platform, and seats 6 adults (7 if there's kids).

Back to suggestions....5 speed AT. ;-)

-Brian

dcm61 · April 2003

is coming in the new Legacy per http://www.apexjapan.com/news/04_leg/03_leg.html

Of course, there's no guarantee it will make it across the big blue ocean.

DaveM

ateixeira · April 2003

Don't they call it Shiftronic?

I say put Shiftronic on *all* automatics. Give 'em 5 ratios while you're at it. Even Kia uses 5 speeds, and the Outlander has tiptronic controls.

Do it soon because if they wait any longer it won't even be considered novel.

-juice

hypov · April 2003

Mark-
Voice prompt is a great feature, but it could only say so much...
i.e. the SP III will prompt you of coming Exit or next turn. However, it will not literally say "exit right on Exit 135" or "make a right on Victoria Rd". That, you'll need to rely on text display on the screen. I don't think any of the top dollar Nav Sys does that, yet.

-Dave

p/s there's a pic of a Nav Sys avail on the JDM Forester on their site. It's mounted at about where I would like it to be mounted.

bat1161 · April 2003

Dave,

Got you. I noticed that picture of the nav system on the Forester- something in that area would be fine, the key factor being not to obstruct forward vision.

Mark

ateixeira · April 2003

OK, now that the Baja got 8.4" of clearance and VTD, why not put those in the Forester XT? :-)

-juice

hypov · April 2003

Was by the dealers today and saw a red '04 WRX being prepped.

Please SoA, bring back the Sedona Red.

-Dave

windsurfer02 · April 2003

I'd like to see more quality of the product & less attention to how it looks. Our car is nice looking but....we have a lot of real actual mechanical problems that make it unpleasant to drive, our a/c is mediocre, the windows rattle, radio reception poor/awful, car pulls to right. It getting so it's embarrassing to give rides to people in our relatively new car! SOA also need to take care of the people who bought new cars within the past 2 years... honor their warranties. I don't give a fig how much your bottom line is on paying out for warranty work. That's our rights as customers of new/newer cars to get stuff fixed within the warranty period without a battle.
Otherwise, you make it hard on the resale value of people who own Sube's without any problems either. Bad news travels much faster than good news. Also the customer representative could be much much more courteous. If I was working those phone & I had been as rude to customers as they've been to me & other sube friends in the past, I'd have been jobless very quickly.

bsvoller · April 2003

windsurfer02: Sorry to hear of your troubles. Are these recent issues ?

Your experience is very different from that of just about everyone here.

Most of us have enjoyed near flawless performance from our Subaru's, some of us over many years and different models. A few like myself have had a bad dealership experience or two in one way or another, but SOA rep's have always been courteous, prompt, knowledgable and eager to help. I myself have had a warranty repair or two performed, no questions asked.

I don't know if Patti is officially back to work yet. We have a member named Patti who works for SOA and gets involved in situations like yours, but she's been on medical leave.

Juice ? Can you offer any advice ?

-brianV

rsholland · April 2003

While at the NY auto show yesterday, I noticed a bed extender that was on a Ford F-150 has a locking feature, to at least "slow down" someone who would want to steal it. In addition, it had a much better way of securing the bedliner in place than the strap method currently used by Subaru. It actually locks in place where it is attached to the pickup bed.

SOA product engineers should grab hold of one of these new F-150 bed extenders, and study it for future Baja usage.

ateixeira · April 2003

My advice would be to stick with us, stay active in Edmunds, and next time something creeps up we'll try to help out. There is always room for improvement.

My suggestion for today? Have more years like 2004! Just went to the NY show and love the following improvements:

* more ground clearance on Baja
* turbos on Forester and Baja
* nicer colors on Baja
* better looking Imprezas
* no more two-tone gold rims
* no more gold badges, they were tacky
* better content overall

Given I expected no news at all, there were many little pleasant surprises. We notice little stuff like that, keep it up!

-juice

mrk610 · April 2003

Better service from dealers . I would also like to see a outback base sedan . Just like the wagon but in sedan form .

Mike k

ateixeira · April 2003

Really? They sold about 3 sedans last year. They're very rare. Of course your suggestion might increase sales.

-juice

ken_from_nj · April 2003

so thought i'd voice my suggestion again for the forester - mine is a '03 xs prem and although i like the roofrack alot & have used it several times in past 6 months since we bought the car - there are no good 'tie-down' points to hook/loop a bungee through on the side rails. only thing you can connect to is the crossbars which can lead to load slide/shift due to the bungee sliding/shifting along the crossbar. previous forester models had nice tiedown points at the front & rear of the side rails. if any sube engineer checks out this site/forum - they should take note & imporove this shorcoming - a relative cheap improvement in my opinion as you can simply put the older style roof rails on the car which the company obviously previously worked with & had manufactured. i wonder why the reason for the change in the first place from the old style rack - was it merely for looks/styling at the cost of functionality? but i ramble.... enough for now

rsholland · April 2003

I agree. Funny thing is the "cheaper" Impreza wagons have tie-down points on the cross bars.

Bob

ateixeira · April 2003

The Outback Sport is the only Subie with tie-down points, right?

Funny thing is the previous Forester had them, bring them back! I use mine every time I use the roof rack.

-juice

bluesubie · April 2003

The cross bars for the Imprezas are too close to the roof (I think all Imprezas get the tie-down loop).

In hindsight, I should not have purchased the optional (on the WRX) cross bars and gone aftermarket.

-Dennis

ateixeira · April 2003

Perfect example - they are turning away accessory sales by not making those designs better.

-juice

ken_from_nj · April 2003

so thought i'd voice my suggestion again for the forester - mine is a '03 xs prem and although i like the roofrack alot & have used it several times in past 6 months since we bought the car - there are no good 'tie-down' points to hook/loop a bungee through on the side rails. only thing you can connect to is the crossbars which can lead to load slide/shift due to the bungee sliding/shifting along the crossbar. previous forester models had nice tiedown points at the front & rear of the side rails. if any sube engineer checks out this site/forum - they should take note & imporove this shorcoming - a relative cheap improvement in my opinion as you can simply put the older style roof rails on the car which the company obviously previously worked with & had manufactured. i wonder why the reason for the change in the first place from the old style rack - was it merely for looks/styling at the cost of functionality? but i ramble.... enough for now

Subaru Crew: Suggestions for Subaru

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