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Good, Bad or Ugly - Current and Future styling trends of BMW

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Comments

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "However, ugly is ugly,"

    You just might want to add: IMHO

    Case dismissed and court is adjourned.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Say what you want. Meanwhile E60 sales are up, E60 chat rooms are thriving with Bangle idulation and BMW is laughing all the way to the bank.
    Even if you don't care for the design you could admit that Bangle had the courage to not go with BORING!
    So the E90 that you got with those hideous taillights is beauty in your eyes?
    Now that is truly ugly IMHO and every time I see one I can't stop LMAO.
    I would like to chat more but there is a nice smooth interstate about a mile away that I just have to Bangleize now that everyone is home watching football. :)
  • bmwdougbmwdoug Member Posts: 248
    Obviously, the people who feel the car is ugly are in the minority, and a very small minority. If the car was so ugly, then sales would have gone down. Sales would have gone down, because a majority of people are NOT going to buy an ugly car. But, sales are up, so a vast majority of people feel the car is classy.

    For the record, I think the design of the E39 was classy, and I think the design of the E60 is classy. I like them both, so I have no bias one way or the another. I also do not currently own a BMW, so again, no built in bias.

    Looks are very subjective and everyone has a valuable opinion when it comes to looks. Each person's opinion is correct for that person; it is their opinion. But; on a whole, car success is measured by sales. No sales means no business, which means there will be no profits. Sales of the E60 are up. There is no disputing the aforementioned fact. Thus, there are a very large number of people who like the design, which means it is not a bad design, but a very good design. Bad design equals sales decline, while a good design equals sales increase. The market speaks for itself.

    Some people on this board may not like the new design. It is there right to hold that opinion. Just as it is the right of the people on this board to say the new design is good. Opinions are opinions and facts are facts. The facts show sales are up. Thus, the vast majority of people like the design. BMW made a bold move and it worked. Profits are up! Profits are the measuring stick of all companies. BMW and all of their designs are looking good.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Exactly!
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Even if you don't care for the design you could admit that Bangle had the courage to not go with BORING!"

    No argument there, then again, I even applauded GM for having the chutzpah to do the Aztek. Nuff said.

    Regarding the E90, nope, didn't get one, although I would if it fit my new driving profile. Most likely my next new ride is going to be an A3 2.0T 6-Speed manual. Regarding the taillights on the E90, yup, not the strongest design feature of the E90, but still better than either end of the E60, IMHO. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Sales are up? I keep seeing that statement, however, my question is, "Up over what?" The last year of the E39 was its seventh model year and eighth year of production, and golly gee what a surprise, its last year was not its strongest. I'm thinking the real question is, "How does the new E60 fare percentage wise compared to other cars in its segment?" My understanding is that when based upon that metric, the E60 is not as successful as the E39, in fact, it's not even close.

    In the end its "different strokes for different folks", and the E60 ain't doin' it for me.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I thought you were planning a family trip to Bavaria to pick up an E90.
    I have my sights on the Audi S4 Avant after I return the 545i in 2.5 years.
    The practicality of a wagon and the handling of a sports car. Heaven!
    If I skip 2 breakfasts, 3 lunches and 1 dinner a week for that time period, I should have enough saved for the gas. :)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "I thought you were planning a family trip to Bavaria to pick up an E90."

    Yeah, that was the plan; however, I picked up a new contract this year that now has me driving about 100 miles per day. Prior to this I've consistently averaged less than 15,000 miles per year and as such my company has leased my last five cars for me. Now that I'm driving at a rate of well over 25,000 miles per year, our accountants have a different formula for the financial criteria for my next car, and as providence would have it, a nicely optioned A3 fits that criteria quite nicely.

    The only real down side is that the trip to Bavaria with the family is going to have to get put off for a few years. :-(

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "I even applauded GM for having the chutzpah to do the Aztek. Nuff said."

    I disagree with that subtext that basically is alluding to the fact the car manufacturers have the gall to produce outright ugly (sic) cars. The E60 is by no stretch ugly and is in fact quite handsomem (IMHO), the Aztec is downright ugly (again IMHO of course).

    Audi's design direction is where BMW left off, and I'm finding their newer designs a little boring.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    The Aztek really looks like it was produced for an unsuccessful PhD geometry dissertation.
    IMHO, of course.
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    Are you REALLY serious? I loke it very much.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    BMW's coupes it seems have always been something special to me. Not sure if this means anything in particular but two girls I dated right after high-school both were connected to BMW coupes. One girl's father had a Red 635CSi that I swore I'd buy from him once I got grown - he wrecked it a few years after that. The other one had a brother with an 850i (also red), not sure what happend to her, him or the car.

    Anyway, a bit of news. One of my favorite BMWs (that most people dislike) has finally been approved for Motorsporthood:

    The M Roadster

    image

    This is going to be hot!

    M
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Sorry, because of time constrictions I haven't had the moment to enter in recent interesting discussions here. But I would prompt one if you would like to follow me.

    It is now the 50th anniversary of one of the most ugly but appealing cars in automobile history (IMO), the Citroën DS. Truly an icon. I'm adding some pictures of it below in this post.

    I am not fully comparing the Citroën DS to the new BMW 5 Series. But when I said in other posters some time ago that the new 5 Series was a very attractive design despite its being kind of rude/ugly I was thinking in designs like that of the Citroën DS. My point is that soft beauty is often not necessary for a successful design.

    http://www.terra.es/personal/joranjo/fotos-mito/cartefacecopy.jpg
    http://www.terra.es/personal/joranjo/fotos-pres/uneds.jpg
    http://www.terra.es/personal/joranjo/fotos-mito/carteintcopy.jpg
    http://www.terra.es/personal/joranjo/

    Regards,

    José
    ;)
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Jose,

    I know you're a racing fan. This is sorta off topic, but what do you think Mercedes chances are for actually winning F1 next year instead of being second place? It appears they pulled out a last min win in DTM to clinch the championship.

    M
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Merc, the Lexicans started off the week by ruining my Monday, now you are doing a number on my Tuesday. You should probably post the Z4 coupe and get it over with. That thing is a troll to beat all trolls. Shipo invoked the Aztek to make a good point. I’d like to elaborate but all I will say right now is that I think the Aztek has better styling qualities than the Z4 and E60 5. Mercy, you’re breaking me heart.

    ;-)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Yeah and chickens have lips.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Whoa...... :surprise:

    I knew I was in a minority on the Z4, but I had no idea you felt that badly about it! I am so sorry...lol. It seems we had this same rift about the 5-Series?

    Lexicans? I like that.

    M
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    merc1,

    McLaren/Mercedes should have many chances to win the F1 championship because they have their actual car—which has been the quickest car in the second half of the season—to be developed for the 2005/6 season. However, Renault and Ferrari are not to be discarded. Ferrari will work hardly to overpass its shame this season. Yet Ferrari ended in third position in the F1 constructors championship, that is, when taking into consideration the results of the two cars of each Team (in that, #1 was Renault and #2 was McLaren/Mercedes, like in the pilots championship). In turn, Renault has had the second car in terms of power but the first one in reliability. It has managed to win both, the absolute (pilots) and constructors championships.

    Next year the rules will change again an the engines will be of 8 cylinders instead of 10 as they were this year. Renault has had a series of wins in the past with 8 cyl. engines. So, Renault has solid ground. On the other hand, BMW has parted with Williams to buy Sauber and then become, like Renault, the full boss of the chasis and engines of its cars. May be Bar/Honda will enter the top competition too. The feeling is, next season will be very competitive.

    José
    :shades:
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    Hey don't worry about that, it is butt ugly. We all have a right to our own opoinon. You mean the 5 series is ugly too?
  • mikegillermikegiller Member Posts: 602
    Never thought I would end up in this forum, but here I am.

    :P

    I do not hate BMWs or anything, but mostly dislike them due to their apparent reliability issues (electronic and such) and new ugly styling (plus, the consoles are soo dated!).

    Not a fan of the new 3-series styling, especially its nose and rear end. The headlights and grille don't match up well when looked at head on; same goes for the 6-series. The new M roadster looks gorgeous, though, and is by far my favourite BMW.

    I love the look of the new 5-series sedan, but the interior is absolutely hideous; door handles look like spaghetti.

    Something is really wrong with BMW's new styling, minus the M roadster, and 5-series (exterior only).

    (I don't think I would mind the new 3 in black, though, but that interior doesn't do anything for me and I don't want it doing any unexpected 720 degree spins on me while I drive it.)

    Meh....(seems uncoordinated).
    image
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    I've always thought the 3 series was ouver-rated. My fav though is the 7 series.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I keep looking at the wonderful door handles of my magnificently beautifully sexy and agressive-looking 2005 545i and I just am not getting the spaghetti thing.

    Thank you Chris Bangle and BMW for having the courage to come out with such a refreshing, new design.
    The fact that so many people continue to talk about it, shows you have achieved your mission.

    And a special thank you to Motor Trend for having the courage to change their initial impression of this fine vehicle, "Bangle, you were right." And for placing the 545i non-sport ahead of the M45 sport in their latest luxury sports sedan comparo.

    As for me, I'm so happy with the 545i, I'm laughing all the way up the interstate.
    Zoom! Zoom! Heh heh heh!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    We all have our tastes. Lexus interiors do nothing for me, they are too busy. I like the uncluttered look of the 3 series. Less is more. The car is distinctively handsome.

    I'm not sure what you meant about a 720, it beat the G35 around the track.
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    hpowders,

    As regards to the interior design of the latter 5 Series—too minimalist as it was considered by the general opinion one year ago—we should have a look to the new MB S Series to come:

    http://www.germancarfans.com/news/2050620.001/2050620.001.Mini3L.jpg

    Some brands/designs follow the path but only one sets the trend. Then, we should enjoy our cars before too many clones arrive. :P

    Regards,
    José
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Yes. Bangle had such a refreshing, new design with the E60 that it remains unique well into its second year.
    I find it rather amusing that Motor Trend has done a 180 and now champions the E60 design. :)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Mike Giller,

    There are reliability issues with BMWs? Can you back up your statement with facts? This is way off topic for this forum but if you want more riveting details about the myth of BMW unreliability please refer to this forum:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ee9e5eb/10728
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Whatever you may think of Bangle the fact is he appears to have many wannabe imitators!

    Examples are the upcoming MB S and Lexus LS!
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    The new LS is no Bangle imitator. The new BMW designs are world-class leaders in styling ripoff. This is a subject in itself. Start with the slab-sided look. This I believe was started by Toyota and Acura. But I can see how BMW will probably get "credit" because they took things to extremes and after all, BMW is BMW.

    I don't know what you are talking about with regard to the MB S which rips off the motifs of other vehicles and is on its own separate planet.

    I agree that in full profile and extremely flat light, the LS shows a resemblance to the profile of the 5. But it ends there. With regard to styling, the LS is light years ahead of the 5 in terms of design effort and integrity.

    In my humble opinion.

    ;-)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    don't know what you are talking about with regard to the MB S which rips off the motifs of other vehicles and is on its own separate planet.

    I do see a resemblance with the MB S and BMW 7 rear-ends(at least the side profile).

    I prefer the 5 series unrepressed Bangle styling vs. the timid new 3 series styling.

    The new 3 series looks like it was designed not to offend anybody(especially those Banlgle critics)! The end result of all this is a dull looking e90 !

    In my more humble opinion
    ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    The newly-designed E60 is a Bangle masterpiece. I drive my 545i beaming with pride.
    I can hardly wait to see his next great design!
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    Given the global volume position of the 3-Series, my guess is that BMW could not afford a more avantgard design. Still grows on you the more you view it, IMHO. The e90 takes on a decidedly different "posture" depending on the level of sportiness (wheel-tire pkg, suspension setting) desired. BMW has to satisfy a broad cross-section of buyers with this platform.

    Took my e39 in for new brake pads/rotors yesterday and noticed a beautiful new e90 330i with aftermarket 18's - quite a presence and screamed performance to my eye.
  • rich545rich545 Member Posts: 386
    I like my 545 a lot too, but geez, it is just a car. I don't know if I quite go to the "beaming with pride" extreme, but to each their own. I do aree, however, the the new S has clearly copied both the new 5 and 7 ihn many aspect of it's interior design. I'm sure designman will disagree with me, but I think the Infiniti M also copied the E60 in many ways from a design standpoint.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Not to say the E60 is perfect. I long for the simple fool-proof turnsignals and window switches on the console instead of the inconvenient ones on the driver's door such as I had in my E46.
  • a10driver7a10driver7 Member Posts: 6
    Hi Shipo

    Just curious on your thoughts about the E60 interior design. I think Lexus is getting it right with regards to information display on the center console. In fighters, we use MFDs (Multi Function Display) as the most efficient way to display and change secondary information in the cockpit. The radio in my E39 is a great example. The buttons change their meaning based on the function. In the Lexus, the display in the center console is a classic MFD used in a fighter. The A-10 has one MFD for the GPS nav system, but more modern fighters have several MFDs. I don't know why BMW would shift away from that concept and go for the old buick style minimal dash. The I Drive design,if it were used in aircraft frankly could get someone hurt due to its inefficiency. The new BMW design also looks a little "70ish" and simply not modern, but retro in a bad way IMHO.

    Sorry about the delay in your e90 acquisition. Still enjoying the autobahn over here. Your airplane working out? Fly safe.

    A-10 Driver
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hmmm, my thoughts on the E60 interior design. Frankly I don't really like it, ditto the new E90 interior. The thing is that I cannot really put my finger on why I don't like them. Is it the lack of the driver oriented console? Is it the iDrive system? Is it a seeming disjointedness of design inspirations? "D", all of the above? I just don't know.

    As for the iDrive centric instrumentation and switch gear versus the wonderful layout of the E39 versus a glass panel in an aircraft, well, my, errrr, biased and rather unlearned opinion is that unless the switch gear that controls the various functions has some form of tactile feel AND feedback, or is fully and completely voice activated, it is dangerous in a car. Unlike flying where you can safely take your eyes off "what's outside" to momentarily pay attention to "what's inside", doing that in a car on a busy road can be deadly. Then again, MFDs like the Garmin GNS 530 have a full set of tactile rich buttons that can alter their functionality, just like the audio system in our E39s. Good for the E39, good for the airplanes, but there's the rub; the control device for the iDrive system REQUIRES that you momentarily take your eyes off "what's outside" to attend to the iDrive screen for any but the most mundane of functions, bad for the E60. With either my E46 or my E39, once I learned how everything operated, I could perform pretty much any function while still keeping my eyes on what was happening on the road.

    As for flying, yeesh, I wish I had the time. What with our new business and my new contract that is forcing me to average well over 100 miles a day (in fact, I've driven 12,000 miles in the last 18 weeks), I don't have any time left to pursue my passion. :-( To make matters worse, I found a little grass strip not five miles from my main client, and they have their own little fleet of post WWII Piper Cubs, complete with control sticks and a tail wheels. Some days the temptation to just chuck all of my work, drive over to the airfield and go for a flight seems too great. :-/ Never fear, I will eventually find the time, and I will savor every moment. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • rich545rich545 Member Posts: 386
    I know you guys weren't talking to me, but if I may interrupt for a second, how is taking your eyes off the road to use iDrive any different than taking your eyes off of the road to use a traditional radio? Granted, you may be familiar enough with the controls to change them without looking, but you can also use voice commands or the steering wheel buttons with iDrive so you don't have to look at the screen. Also, if your car is equipped with HUD you really don't have to look at the iDrive screen. Obviously, I defend the system all the time, but since I'm the one that's using it all of the time (for a year and three months), and saying it's not distracting mean anything? I just feel like people listen more to car reviewers that have spent a couple of hours in iDrive equipped cars than they do to people that own them. The system sure could be improved (any system can be), but I don't find it any more distracting than traditional car controls.
  • freddybbfreddybb Member Posts: 95
    Shipo,

    I have to agree completely with rich545 on this one. You and I communicated a lot before I bought my new 530xi (thanks, again) and I could not be more pleased with the spartan interior and iDrive. Once you get used to iDrive (I presume that an A-10 takes some getting used to as well -- I sure wish I could try!), then it becomes easy and intuitive and you almost never have to take your eyes off the road. Here are some common examples based on REAL WORLD usage by a new first-time iDrive user (which means that unless you are also a real world user you cannot argue based on assumptions from other systems or the old iDrive):

    - I use the HUD to view navigation, speed, cruise control, and warning messages, and it works GREAT! Really worth it and NOT a gimmick as I thought. I assume the A-10 has one too :-)

    - The two programmable buttons on the steering wheel are invaluable -- I use them every day to go to my phone list (Bluetooth) or to turn the audio on and off.

    - Once you get to the radio, either by pulling back on the iDrive knob for 2 sec or by hitting the steering wheel button, changing stations is as easy as moving your hand from the shift lever to the iDrive knob and rotating it. Never have to take your eyes off the road for that.

    - The "shortcuts" of pulling the iDrive knob in a particular direction to get quickly to a function work very well.

    - And lastly, the voice control works EXTREMELY well. I can dial numbers from my phone address book (Bluetooth works extremely well too) with astonishing accuracy and use a lot of other commands too.

    - I almost never use a lot of the other functions -- most of them are set and forget. How many times do you want to change the brightness of the display, or the way the air blows through the car?

    Am I making my point well enough? Once you get used to iDrive it is a hoot to use and you really begin to appreciate the clean interior, all without having to get distracted!!

    I am in the software business like you, and I know that there is an inherent bias against multi-menu systems because of all the crappy software out there, but nobody should pass judgement without giving it a fair chance.

    Hope this helps, as it is intended to. BTW, you wanted to know how I liked this car after I drove it a while. Well, I have 3000 miles on it now and I LOVE it -- it hunkers down on the highway and it seems to drive better every single day!
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Nice to hear from you again. ;-)

    A couple of points that I'm unsure of:

    When using the iDrive knob, how do you set a specific radio station without taking your eyes off of the road to look at the screen? Case in point, I used to live in the NYC area and I literally lived by the traffic reports. News Radio 880 had "Traffic on the eights", 1010 WINS had "Traffic on the ones" and Bloomberg News Radio 1130 had "Traffic on the fives" as I recall. I was constantly switching between the three depending upon traffic conditions and the clock, and in my two previous BMWs, I never needed to look away to hit the correct button. Button 2 was for 880, button 4 was for 1010 and button 5 was for 1130.

    As for playing with the HVAC controls, from March to November, I hardly ever touched them. That said, during the cold months I would routinely have to switch between "Gonzo Arctic Turbocharged Windshield Heat Blast" mode, to just standard window defogger and then to either floor or bi-level or tri-level. I haven't looked at the controls of the E60 recently, but from what I read, that type of control fiddling is an iDrive involved process. Yes, no?

    The flip side of all of this of course is the sheer number of buttons that the E39 had. IIRC, I counted nearly 100 different buttons and other control devices at the drivers' disposal. Needless to say, there was a learning curve for all of that as well. ;-)

    By the way, I've been following your posts discussing your car, and I'm glad that you've managed to get the battery drain issue sorted and that you enjoying your 530xi. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • rich545rich545 Member Posts: 386
    Easy. When you're in radio mode you just hit the button on the steering wheel marked with the up and down arrows up or down to scroll through your pre-sets. I used to live in NY too (Tarrytown and White Plains) so I'm very familiar with the stations you mentioned. So let's say you have 880 as your first pre-set, 1010 as the second and 1130 at 3. You're on 880 and want to go to 1010. Simply hit the up arrow on the steering wheel. You don't even have to be on the radio screen in iDrive. Same goes for satellite pre-sets and songs on cds. About HVAC, there are redundant control knobs on the dash and two buttons for the front and rear window defoggers. I haven't touched iDrive for HVAC controls since the second week I owned the car.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    The steeringwheel controls? Duh! I actually forgot about those. :blush:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • a10driver7a10driver7 Member Posts: 6
    I won't take on anyone with regards to their opinions on the I-Drive. My only experience is a test drive and a couple of swerves trying to change the radio/temp etc. Admittedly it was not a long drive, but the experience stuck. If I ever get a new BMW with the I-Drive, remind me not to let my inexperienced friends borrow it for a spin.

    Interesting (respectfully) that many of you like the the clean dash, I will have to study it more. I guess I'm just a big fan of the driver-oriented dashes. I just think that the new Lexus GS is getting it right (just the interior). SAABs have nice driver oriented consoles as well. Just looking for a spirited discussion on the interior.

    I must confess my post had 2 hidden agendas. Was curious to know how Shipo's airplane was doing. The fleet of Cubs would have me drooling as well. Secondly, always hoping the brass at BMW read our posts and take the outstanding feedback these forums provide. Still hoping for a better 5 series the next they re-design. I'll skip this one for now. But still in a quandary because there aren't any better driving cars out there for the money.

    VR

    A-10 Driver
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Interesting (respectfully) that many of you like the the clean dash...

    Not me. I like my dash to look like that of a B-2 bomber, not the living room of a starter house. A busy cockpit lit up at night is heavenly, like a Rocky Mountain sky at midnight. In addition I think they are easier to use instead of having to click through hierarchies.
  • rich545rich545 Member Posts: 386
    I guess I'm a little confused as to what makes a dash more driver-oriented by having more buttons. Wouldn't a less cluttered dash allow the driver to concentrate more on, umm, driving rather than pushing buttons? I used to love SAABs before they became glorified Subaru's, and in fact I have owned a 900 S, 900 Turbo and 9-3. I don't feel like the dash in my car is less driver-oriented than any of the dashes in those cars. Just my opinion, but in this case, I feel that less is definitely more. Less buttons mean more driving fun to me!
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I think by saying "driver oriented" our A10 buddy was referring to the inclined console. In previous generations of BMWs, the console as it rose up from the shifter area was canted toward the driver, giving more of a so-called "cockpit" feeling as opposed to the nearly flat or flush middle section of the E60 and E90.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo

    P.S.

    Regarding the Cubs, they don't even have electrics, they need to be hand propped! Cool. :shades:
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    I also owned a 900SE Turbo Coupe! Loved it, btw. That thing could hold some cargo and go like h_ _ _! Don't miss the torque steer, though.

    Speaking of limiting display confusion, SAAB was (and still may be) known for their lighting feature that shuts off non-essential lighting unless a "need-to-know" situation arises. Definitely not the "night sky" look that some enjoy :D
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Speaking of limiting display confusion, SAAB was (and still may be) known for their lighting feature that shuts off non-essential lighting unless a "need-to-know" situation arises."

    I drove a Saab 93 SportCombi 5-Speed this week that had the "Night Panel" button, so I guess I've just confirmed your suspicion. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • lovemyclklovemyclk Member Posts: 351
    Where does the SportCombi tilt on the SAAB/GM scale? Car looks unique in a pretty good way - have not seen one in the metal.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Well, Saab is the ONLY car from the GM stable that I'll even consider, and the SportCombi certainly has lots to offer. From my perspective, the SportCombi would currently be my first choice were it not for one thing, the A3. The A3s engine feels stonger (maybe it's due to a 6-Speed tranny while the Saab has only a 5-Speed unit in the 4-Cylinder models), the A3 is quieter, the A3 has Bluetooth, and the A3 seems to have more legroom in the back. The Saab is a fine car, just not quite for me.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • a10driver7a10driver7 Member Posts: 6
    Thanks Shipo for clearing that up for me. I indeed meant a console that shift towards the driver. I just thought the MFDs are cool looking, very functional, and a better way to present information with vehicles that have a GPS Nav system. It also reminds me of being "at work". Call me old school, but I also think having a mouse in the "Ultimate Driving Machine" is kind of odd.

    VR

    A-10 Driver

    PS I know the I-Drive controller is not a mouse, but it sure looks and quacks like one.
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    Z4 sales are off by almost 30 % year-to-date here in the U.S. Good thing they got rid of the hideous Urban Green color.

    image
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