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Toyota Sienna 2004+

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Comments

  • nicklesnickles Member Posts: 41
    Anyone out West had any success getting their dealer's parts dept to order a Moonroof wind deflector ?
    They are telling me it's a Gulf States only option, and they can't get it due to restricted distribution channels in the different regions.
    I'm not sure I buy that exlpanation and was wondering if anyone else out West has one of these items on their Sienna.
  • kenhall64kenhall64 Member Posts: 16
    Check on E-Bay - they sell for about $60 plus shipping.
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    With the run flat, you should be able to stagger to some tire store. However, the chances that they stock your run flat size and style, and have the equipment to install it, is very low. They just are not an industry standard and at their cost, are unlikely to become one. You likely will end up getting a used tire installed, ordering a run flat and going elsewhere to have it installed, and then return the used tire to the other place for whatever that costs.

    Of course you could still have a catastrophic type failure which would be very rare, but would leave you stranded.

    I've said this before, if run flats were a good idea, all the Siennas would have them, not just the AWD models where there is no room to bury a spare.
  • norbnnorbn Member Posts: 70
    We are looking into getting a Sienna, and my question is, do they sell Sienna's in other countries? Cause the one thing I hate about the Sienna is the rear red turn signals. For all the advertising of safety Toyota does, why the heck did they not include yellow turn signals? The Japanese/European way is so much better than the US way. We even had to invent the third brake light because our laws for tail lights are so stupid! On Jeeps they have on light for brake/running/turning, what is up with that? Please tell me toyota makes a yellow lens for the Sienna. Otherwise we thing the van is great and are ready to move from our current van, the Odyssey.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I am with you on the yellow light thing. For some reason Toyota seems to alternate the turn signal colors between years and models. When they refresh the car, they sometimes change the turn signal color. I don't know why they can't stick with yellow. I think the reason car makers like red is that designers think the tail looks less fussy with only two colors in back. Of course some cars have only two colors in back and still have amber turn signals - clear lens and a yellow bulb.
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    The problem is not the color, although I also like the yellow much better, and even Honda switched to yellow in MY 2002. The main problem is that the lamp is very small, and most people will not notice it, especially in day light. If you look at other cars - an extreme example is the Cadillac Deville - you'll see that a red light can do the job, if it's big enough, and the entire light goes on and off while signaling - not just lighter and darker.

    Unfortunately, most minivans are switching to red turn signals in the rear. Chrysler did it for years already, and now Ford Freestar switched to red, and so is the Nissan Quest.

    Some people say that red is easier for the eyes, but that's only at night, sitting at a traffic light for 10 minutes and the car in front of you (with a yellow light) is signaling 10 minutes none stop... I hope you get the point... But that's for sure, amber lights are much more visible, and, therefor, a safer choice.
  • weedshastaweedshasta Member Posts: 85
    Nickles, thanks so much for the explanation and information. I thought I had this all figured out, and now I have changed my mind again. I was in Medford today and got some information. The Toyota dealer can order a rim for the temporary spare, but not the tire. The rim is 17 x 4T (part number 42611-AE050) and costs $107.46. They said to go to a tire store for the tire! Sears can order a Firestone tire T155/80R17 (see p 487 in owners manual) with rim for $171.99. Dunlop had told me to go to Sears for the run flats. Sears checked their computer and there is not a single P225/60 R17 run flat available in California, Oregon, or Washington. Sears charges $236 for the tire.
         I was going to order the temporary from Sears, but then I got to thinking about what you said about how it might harm the AWD system. Now these temp tires are not a lot smaller. I plugged the 2 tires into a tire calculator and the radius of the 225/60R 17 and the 155/80R 17 is 13.81 inches vs 13.38 inches. The circumference is 86.77 inches vs. 84.06 inches. Would this be enough to throw the AWD system out of whack?
         So the options seemed to be: do nothing, get a temporary spare, get a conventional spare, or get a conventional sized run-flat spare. The problem with the latter two is the space they would take up in the back of the car on a trip.
         And then I had another thought. If you want to use a regular non run-flat as your spare until you can get your run-flat repaired or replaced, the limiting factor seems to be that dealers don't have rims in stock. It is more likely that they would have at least one 225/60R 17 regular tire available. What if you just get a regular sized rim, either new or from a wrecking yard, and carry that around? It certainly would take up less room than with the tire. Then you could drive to or be towed to the nearest tire shop. They could put their tire on your rim and you could deal with ordering a new run-flat when you get home.
         Or maybe this is silly. They could just as easily take your faulty run-flat off and put a new non-run flat on that same rim. Now I am getting confused again.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    2004 Minivan Comparison Test

    Steve, Host
  • nicklesnickles Member Posts: 41
    I wouldn't sweat this. Although I am quite impressed with the radius calculations and circumference info you have researched.
    I believe the difference in this case is minimal, but still would 'bother' me knowing that the finely tuned AWD system would be off kilter for however long I run my spare.
    What you DONT want to do is be like those people you see flying down the highway with their temp spare on, doing 60+mph.

    Me ?? i wouldn't give it another thought. i wouldnt' want a spare taking up any room in the back seat.
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    A nice complete review but there are one really odd thing in there. Under "Wind & Road Noise"...there is absolutely no way that the Odyssey was the most quiet. Unless you were rating it for having the most wind and road noise enter the cabin!!! I've driven all those vans and the Honda was had the most road and wind noise enter than cabin. My ears (subjective) and my Radio Shack dB meter told me so.
  • ewtewt Member Posts: 127
    I agree on the noise level issue. I've driven Odysseys and Siennas back to back on the same road when I was shopping, and the Sienna is definitely quieter, especially at higher (70+) speeds on the highway where the difference is pretty significant. I agreed with just about all the other points though.
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    I, too, have driven both of these, and there is no way the Odyssey is quieter than the Sienna at interstate speeds. And the Honda is the 'BMW of minivans?' Give me a break....
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    Have to agree that something was fouled up with Edmunds wind noise measurements. Maybe the Sienna's windows were open. Other than that they are on the mark. It doesn't look like it will be that difficult for the 05 Ody to get back on top of the heap.
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    I'll see if I can find my dB readings from the different vans. That was about 6 months ago so I may have to dig. The Sienna had the lowest readings at 70mph. The rest were bunched and the Honda was the loudest.

    All on the same stretch of I270.
  • jmessjmess Member Posts: 677
    There are different textures to sound but Car&Driver found the sound level at 70 MPH to be the same:

    Sienna: Idle 39db, Full Throttle 75db, 70 MPH cruise 70dB
    Ody: Idle 41db, Full throttle 72db, 70 MPH cruise 70db

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_- id=6647&page_number=4

    If you notice the 0-100 speed and street start comparison for the ODY vs Sienna, the ODY gets down the road pretty good.
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    Sienna
    Idle: 40dB
    70mph constant: 69-71dB
    0-60: 9.3sec AWD. I did not test the FWD.

    Ody
    Idle: 38dB
    70mph constant: 72-74dB
    0-60: 8.4sec

    I did not measure full throttle acceleration noise. I used G-TECH PRO (the old one) to measure 0-60.

    Its a combination of road, wind, and tire noise along with a less compliant suspension that contribute the the Ody higher noise level. I took all my measurements with the dB meter "mounted" to the passenger seat.

    For comparison the Kia, Ford, and Chevy were 40dB idle and 70-73dB at 70mph. The Crysler was closer to the Sienna. The Honda is a good van and clearly faster than the Sienna and I'm not bringing it down but to my ears and by my non-prefessional measurements its not the most quiet. If anything, it was the loudest at 70mph.
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Member Posts: 840
    that the Sienna is quieter. Everybody knows.
    Anybody who says the Ody is quieter is absolutely lying. Everybody knows. Somebody needs to talk to that editor and straighten him out. He must be confused. Shoot. He probably didn't even test drive the Sienna! Some of the things some writers say makes you wonder if they even know what the heck they are talking about. They don't. Everybody knows.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    They just said that to rile you up Andrew :-)

    Here's a link for you:

    Letters to the Editors

    Steve, Host
  • warubozuwarubozu Member Posts: 5
    42611-AE050 list price in December was $85.09, dealer sold it for $70.

    Loaded rolling radius is what matters, not calculated radius or circumference. With the stiff sidewalls and 60 psi, it would probably be the same as the standard tires.
  • weedshastaweedshasta Member Posts: 85
    Wow, the dealer quoted me $107 for the rim only and said the tire was not available. Tire and rim (Firestone) are $171 through Sears. Were you able to get a temporary spare tire through the dealer? How much was the whole setup?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Simply remove the ABS pumpmotor fuse and use any size temporary you have.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    ...and lose your ABS functionality at the same time? I would think that your ABS would be even more necessary given the extremely uneven braking traction available when running a spacesaver spare.

    How easy is it to manually modulate your brakes if your ABS equipped system is on the fritz because you've removed the pumpmotor fuse? And are you gonna accept the liability when some poor unsuspecting TH reader actually follows your advice and then slides off of a rain-slickened road?
  • kmeadkmead Member Posts: 232
    Given that Toyota offers a temp spare kit specifically for the AWD, they did test it with that setup to know how it would behave and function. Keeping the ABS system functioning and along with it the VSC system would be the correct thing to do. Disconnecting those systems would be an error.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    The latest news is that ABS is actually slightly more hazardous overall than non-ABS equipped vehicles.

    And do you consider "temporary" as in "temporary spare" meaningless?
  • warubozuwarubozu Member Posts: 5
    My tire is a Firestone and the paperwork does not show a Toyota P/N.

    I would go with the Sear's deal, since my dealer charged $190 for the tire <ouch>. But I felt better after picking it up, because I can easily do that with one hand (I am a 125 lb weakling).

    Interesting that the max load rating of the spare is 1,819 @60 psi, while the Dunlop is 1,653 @51 psi. Probably made like the tires on semi's, skinny, but strong. Probably handles like a semi truck tire, too, hope I never have to find out :)
  • mark76mark76 Member Posts: 15
    I am a chemist. While the list of chemicals in your web link is "scary", the risk they pose need to be kept in context. There is no long term risk associated with exposure to these trace (volatile) chemicals. There are countless things in ones life that pose far greater risk to one's health such as poor diet, smoking, lack of exercise, engaging in risky behavior (drinking to excess, excessive speeding, etc.). I don't want to come across as preachy, however. These chemicals are scary because most people are unfamiliar with them. We all know how bad saturated fat and cholesterol is to our health but since we are familiar with these (chemical) compounds we are not as scared by them. Even though they they pose real long term health risks.

    We have owned numerous new cars over the years and in fact just took delivery of our own Sienna XLE w/cloth. The new car smell will continuously diminish over several months. The upcoming summer months will accelerate the elimination of that new car smell because the higher temperatures will drive off the volatiles that are causing the odor.

    I don't deny you may be very sensitive to the odors. We are all different. Cat dander drives me "nuts". My advise if the odor is hard to tolerate is to open the vans windows whenever you can, even if you just crack them open when parked; and to keep the ventilation flowing when diving the van. Also, keep the vents "open" so that you are drawing in fresh outside air into the van and not on "re circulation" which just recycles the inside air.

    I would not recommend trying to cover up the odor with a spray or air freshener because all you are doing is adding another layer of "chemicals" to cover up the new car smell, which may aggravate your sensitivity to smells.

    FYI, I just saw on the news that Cadillac is hard at work trying to formulate a way to PROLONG that new car smell. Go figure! ;-)
      
    Hope this helps. Enjoy your new van!
  • lenrlenr Member Posts: 13
    Is Toyota more inclined to fix problems at model year time, or do they slipstream fixes in through out the model year? I'm debating whether to buy now or wait until 05 models. Problem is dealers are less inclined to deal in the fall just after the new models arrive. Since this was a major re-design with significant drive line changes, I'm wondering if I should give them just a bit longer to smooth everything out. Experienced Toyota buyer's thoughts?
  • mylescatmylescat Member Posts: 1
    If you have the DVD & children in 2nd row child seats can you tell me if there are any problems with the viewing angle of the DVD.

    Thanks,
    Myles
  • kksdadkksdad Member Posts: 28
    My 3 year old loves watching from the 2nd roll, especially with the "her own" headphones on! During spring break, we took a 900 mile roundtrip drive down to Disneyland and she was very happy to have all her Dora the Explorer, Brother Bear and Nemo DVD's! You'd be surprised, I don't think kids seem to be AS PARTICULAR as adults are, with all the fine tuning and view angles. Remember, it's a minivan, not an IMAX/THX surround-sound theater where you are fighting for prime viewing seats! For what we've got in all our Sienna's, I think it serves it purpose well and does an excellent job of "entertaining" passengers of all ages!
  • norbnnorbn Member Posts: 70
    Where did you hear that ABS was more dangerous? This really upsets me when people just post crap like this. Same thing with the airbags, people hear of one incident and they go all overboard. ABS works, airbags work.

    Note, those kids that got killed by airbags were in the front seat, UNBELTED and playing on the dash when the car had a front end collision trigerring the airbag, so yes the airbag did kill them but if not the airbag then the windshield would of. See how the media spins it?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Sorry, the reports have been out for quite some time now so I didn't think to post the source, I seem to remember that the origin was the IIHS(??) Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

    As I remember it the one area that was the most diverse, ABS vs Non-ABS, was single vehicle injury or fatal accidents. Apparently something about ABS equipped cars make them more prone to these.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I'm never going to set here and disparate airbag safety, they undoubtedly do an excellent job when properly used.

    The IMPROPER use was belting the child, with or without a child's seat, into the front passenger seat. "Belting", therefore no threat of flying through the windshield.

    It's really the same problem of some adult of slight frame and weight behind the steering wheel and being injured by the airbag in an otherwise non-injury accident.
  • carman123carman123 Member Posts: 71
    I think the safety issue that wwest is referring to is improper use of ABS by ignorant drivers. When needing to stop quickly, people would feel the brake pedal pulsing and let up pressure. This resulted in longer stopping distances and increased accident rates for ABS equipped cars versus non-ABS equipped cars. If people would mash the brakes and hold the pressure, then there would have been no statistical anomaly. To correct this problem, many automakers have added "brake assist" so that when a driver presses the brakes faster than normal, the computer holds maximum braking even if the driver releases the pedal. Thus, in emergency situations, today's ABS equipped vehicles help even the ignorant driver stop faster. One of the main advantages of ABS is that steering control is maintained even under maximum braking. This can greatly improve one's chances of avoiding a collison.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    ...if wwest has permanently removed the ABS pumpmotor fuse from his RX300 if he feels ABS is more dangerous that non-ABS. And again, I would like to know how difficult it is to manually modulate the brakes in an ABS-equipped vehicle when the system has been purposefully disabled by the owner.

    BTW - "brake assist" is standard equipment on the Sienna.
  • kmeadkmead Member Posts: 232
    The issue WWest refers to is accidents where the vehicle hits objects off the side of the road as a result of being able to brake and turn. So a larger number of vehicles are hitting secondary objects (trees, rocks etc) and these vehicles tend to suffer extensive damage. Does this make ABS equipped vehicles more dangerous? No.

    Some drivers are tending to drive their cars to the limit of ABS, ie driving such that even ABS cannot save them.

    However this is not evidence that ABS is less safe. Its just not safer. From the IIHS site:

    Quote:4. Do car antilocks reduce crashes? Although car antilocks perform well on the test track, there's no evidence they have made significant reductions in the number of on-the-road crashes. A 1994 Highway Loss Data Institute (HLDI) study1 and a subsequent 1995 study2 compare insurance claims for groups of otherwise identical cars with and without antilocks, finding no differences in the overall frequency or cost of crashes for which insurance claims for vehicle damage are filed. Because antilocks should make the most difference on wet and slippery roads, researchers also studied insurance claims experience in 29 northern states during winter months. Even here they found no difference in the frequency of insurance claims for vehicles with and without antilock brakes. A 1997 Institute study,3 as well as a 2001 update,4 reported no difference in the overall fatal crash involvement of cars with and without antilocks.

    Federal studies of car antilocks are consistent with Institute and HLDI findings. According to one federal report, "the overall, net effect of antilock brakes" on both police-reported crashes and fatal crashes "was close to zero."5 The federal studies of effects of antilocks on passenger vehicle crashes found positive effects on wet roads and negative effects for run-off-road crashes. These two opposite results cancel each other. Leonard Evans, a researcher with General Motors, reported that antilock-equipped cars were less likely to rear-end other vehicles but more likely to have other vehicles rear-end them.6 Again, the net result was little effect on overall crash risk. In a study done for auto manufacturers, Failure Analysis Associates reported a net beneficial effect of antilocks on nonfatal crashes but no effect on fatal crashes.7

    5. Why aren't car antilocks reducing crashes as expected? No one knows for sure why their test performance hasn't translated into a significant reduction in real-world crashes. A possible reason is that the average motorist rarely experiences total loss of vehicle control, which antilocks are designed to prevent. There's also evidence that many car owners don't know how to use antilock brakes effectively. An Institute survey of drivers with antilock-equipped cars found that more than 50 percent in North Carolina and 40 percent in Wisconsin incorrectly thought they should pump the brakes.8 Another possibility is that some motorists may drive less cautiously because they believe antilocks allow them to brake better.

    This was from the following: http://www.highwaysafety.org/safety_facts/qanda/antilock.htm
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    thanks. got anything similar for vehicle stability control and increased safety? ;)

    you write:
    >>
    Some drivers are tending to drive their cars to the limit of ABS, ie driving such that even ABS cannot save them.
    >>

    i'd have to agree - the automation may be enabling some driver's poor habits.
  • kmeadkmead Member Posts: 232
    more links available for stability control. Vehicle stability control is the first major enhancement to show a strong improvement in safety. I need to go to bed now, but will find some of my older posts and info on this subject. As I recall, in Europe they are crediting VSC and similar systems with a considerable drop in the number of rollover and other accidents.

    I strongly believe in VSC, I have it on my Sienna LE.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I haven't figured out just how VSC differs from simply adding more roadbed traction by putting wider tires on the car. Both seem to give more advantage at or near the "edge", but once the driver starts using the new parameters then we get back to square one.

    Once I start relying on VSC then there is no difference than wider tires???
  • kmeadkmead Member Posts: 232
    WWest:

    There is a huge difference between VSC and wide tires.

    VSC has little or nothing to do with getting more roadbed traction, it will allow you to use the traction that is there.

    VSC is about keeping the vehicle on the chosen path, ie the steering wheel is pointed in a particular direction, the vehicle should be going in that direction. We have had this conversation before so I won't belabor the point.

    I will take the time this evening to post information about VSC.
  • norbnnorbn Member Posts: 70
    What do you mean relying on VSC? Do you mean you are driving at 10/10 all the time? Cause that's the only time you'll be setting off the VSC. Here's a piece of advice, slow down before you kill someone.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    No, for me 10/10 is only appropreate on a closed track, someplace I almost never go.

    IMMHO VSC is intended for those times when there is really no way I can foresee and thereby prepare for an "on the edge" event. Unseen unpredictable black ice as I enter a curve, as an instance.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    bravo.

    initially, ABS was hailed as a technology which would dramatically improve safety. for various reasons, this appears that it may not be the case.

    VSC looks great. these websites showing cars zipping around corners at the limit of the test driver (hmmmm), track and vehicle capability...very impressive.

    we need to be careful to avoid putting ourselves into the situation where we must rely on the technology to keep the car going straight and under-control.

    OK OK. so there are situations where people (good drivers and bad) will unexpectadly find themselves in a jam, and yes, maybe VSC will make the difference.

    but still, is the extra complexity and cost justified? like ABS, will down the road we find out the technology hasn't lead to the dramatic improvements in safety which were advertised?

    i wonder.

    we need to slow down, refuse to answer the cell-phone, take it off cruise control, and drive.
  • dako_tiandako_tian Member Posts: 298
    I say amen to slowing down! Amen and amen again to refusing to answer the cell phone! But when you mention the cruise control that saves my leg and lower back on those 6+ hour drives from DFW to my Dad's place in West Texas,.... Well now, brother, you done stopped preachin' and gone to meddlin'! ;-)
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    My Sienna XLE has VSC/TC/ABS/AWD but they are all just a back up just in case my careful driving fails for some reason. I dont depend on them but do hope they have help me if I make a mistake or if I have to avoid someone else that makes a mistake.
  • onlysurferonlysurfer Member Posts: 96
    When would 2005 model come out ? Any possibility of ordering 8 seater with leather ? (in any trim level)
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    You can get 8 seats and leather but you have to go aftermarket. About $1500-1800.
  • wolfxwolfx Member Posts: 72
    My dealer told me the 2005 wont be out until Aug/Sept., which appears normally the case
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Most VSC systems apply the outside front brake if over-steering is detected. BMW has just introduced a system that actually counter-steers the front wheels automatically to reduce the turning rate, claiming their system has faster response....

    Pardon me..........???

    Counter-steer against the driver's steering inputs??

    Catch 22 multiplied by the thousands.

    My steering input would have put me "safely" around the corner and NOT over the cliff at the edge of the road. The car tends to oversteer and BMW automatically countersteers, which I detect and correct, since I don't want to go over the cliffside, BMW again countersteers against my new inputs to prevent oversteering.....

    Isn't that a lot like limiting the climb rate of the airbus that crashed years ago due to computer interference with the pilot's inputs??
  • dako_tiandako_tian Member Posts: 298
    Surely BMW is only talking about automatically reducing the turning rate when the (presumably sophisticated) sensors detect that the current turn rate is causing the vehicle to lose traction and slide.

    '[Your] steering input would have put [you] "safely" around the corner and NOT over the cliff at the edge of the road' only if you were already steering as their system would.

    If not, then your personal control decision to maintain a steering angle too great to retain friction would still result in your vehicle going off the cliff -- it's just that you would slide off sideways! ;-)
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    The first comprehensive application of ABS was on the rear brakes for pickups. Anyone who ever drove an unloaded pickup knew the problems with lock up. You pretty much had to put a lot of weight in the back to prevent this. ABS did not affect the accident rate for these pickups, however people no longer had to weight down the back unless they needed traction in the winter.

    When ABS went to all four wheels, I think safety actually took a step back. Front wheel lock up does not cause a loss of control. My experience, particularly on gravel and rough surfaces is that the ABS increases stopping distances. When the fronts lock up, they are very effective at braking (although the tires may be worse off for it.) With ABS the tires free wheel until suitable traction is sensed.

    The only time I can see an advantage to front wheel ABS is a panic stop and turn combination. This is very rare and there a very few drivers who know the limitations of their vehicle enough to try this.
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