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Toyota Sienna 2004+

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Comments

  • norbnnorbn Member Posts: 70
    How can skidding locked up wheels NOT cause loss of control. I think you just don't realize how ABS works. It makes the tires work at their full potential, which happens right before lock up. When tires lock up and are in full skid, you are not stopping but actually sliding down the pavement.

     ABS keeps tires right at the treshold of its maxium adhesion, and to top it all off, it controls the 4 wheels independently, whereas even the best drivers have to pump the brakes and thus lose traction momentarily. Think of it this way, ABS was developed for the airliners, if it doesn't work do you really think they would be using them still? And yes they are still used on every jet liner out there today.
  • kmeadkmead Member Posts: 232
    ABS actually does make stopping distances longer on gravel/dirt or deep snow. Audi used to put in a ABS shut off switch on the real Quattro coupes in the US and elsewhere.

    A locked up tire on dirt creates a increasing wedge of material ahead of it that can improve braking. The same to a limited degree on snow.

    Where ABS really does help is on wet surfaces, split mu surfaces and other limited traction situations.

    I my limited view much of the reason we see little benefit from ABS is that it cannot perform miracles. I drive a pretty short distance to work in a small metropolitan area, very few people follow anywhere near the recomended 1 car length for every 10mph (or 2 second rule). Without enough distance (or time) no amount of braking perfection will make up for following too close. The other issue is that many accidents are such that no amount of braking can really help: intersections (blowing lights, failing to stop for stop signs etc), failure to yield and so on.
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    You are both correct. Front wheel ABS can help on icy surfaces compared to just pumping the brakes. However it is the gravel and rough surfaces where the the stopping distance actually increases.

    This corresponds to the airliner analogy. How many jets land on gravel surfaces? They only have to deal with wet surfaces. They are never allowed to land on surfaces that are not deiced as the longer stopping distances can be quite an issue when they exceed the runway length.

    Skidding the front wheels does not cause a loss of control if you are going in a straight line, only if you attempt to steer while panic braking, not a generally good course of action.
  • dako_tiandako_tian Member Posts: 298
    "Skidding the front wheels does not cause a loss of control if you are going in a straight line, only if you attempt to steer while panic braking, not a generally good course of action."

    Once you exceed the coefficient of friction and the tires are sliding (the definition of the former), you definitely do lose control!

    If you happen to be in a situation where you coincidentally do not want to change the direction at all, then physics works for you (an object in motion tends to stay in motion and will not change direction without an external force applied). You have the illusion of control.

    However, if you hit the slightest imperfection on the roadway that provides that redirecting force you will find out just how little control you have as you ride the vehicle wherever it is then headed.

    I would also agree that the "wedging affect" of snow is probably negligible. That coupled with the fact that the vast majority of American drivers cannot remember the last time they drove on anything but asphalt or concrete (I live in Texas and I can't remember! And, trust me, you that do are in the minority), so I would argue that the negative affects possible with ABS fall way under the 80/20 rule.

    I think the nail has been hit on the proverbial head with the idea that the lack of improved safety from ABS can be traced to the increased aggressiveness of us drivers in general. We take advantage of the added safety by pushing the safety envelope farther and so see no net improvement in real-world safety. But, man, are we ever getting there faster (well, maybe not actually), and in a far more exciting manner. Is hyper-tension on the rise?
  • norbnnorbn Member Posts: 70
    Exactly, who here drives in gravel? I certainly wouldn't drive my $35K Sienna on gravel, if I had one. Here's another senario, what if you start locking up your rear tires while braking straight? It will swing out and turn you. There is no but's about it, ABS works and works safely. You just have to know how to use it.

    Plus the benefits of ABS also applies to dry roads.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I drive my '99 van on gravel occasionally in the summer (including going 50-60 on a 400 mile stretch when it was new and still worth ~20k). But I like driving stuff like the Dempster or the scenic byways here in Idaho.

    Gravel can be loosey-goosey with or without ABS. I rarely remember that I can steer when I stomp my brakes (usually on snow when that happens), but I felt that the ABS did help me steer clear a couple of times on snow when opposing traffic slid over the line.

    Steve, Host
  • kmeadkmead Member Posts: 232
    There are many states where there are still a large percentage of gravel (dirt) roads. We are from Vermont and I can assure you that if you want to take the shortest distance between two points (and be on a road) you will take your nice shiny Sienna on a dirt road. (Of the 14000 miles of roads in Vermont, 2700 miles are paved with the balance being gravel/dirt graded roads.) I found statistics for the entire US, 3.962,000 miles of roadway, 1,439,000 miles are unpaved.

    This is not something I worry too much about (stopping distance on a dirt road) but in answer to the question posed it is a difference worth noting between ABS and non ABS.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    My bet is that within a very few years the ABS design will be modified such that front wheel ABS, or maybe all ABS activity, will not engage unless the VSC system (yaw sensor and steering wheel position sensor) detects impending loss of directional control, severe braking and simultaneous deviation from the desired line of travel.

    And don't tell Alaska Airlines that they can't land in Anchorage or Fairbanks unless the runway is deiced. And is Dead Horse still pea gravel?

    Oh, and ABS was added to airliners as a safety measure, to prevent loss of directional control (extremely hazardous, that), NOT to shorten stopping distances.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    of these systems to replace if they fail when you're out of the warrenty coverage period?

    i don't think these ABS/VSC systems are serviceable are they?

    would you drive these vehicles with the system failed? would you knowingly drive with the airbag (frontal, side, or curtain) system failed?
  • norbnnorbn Member Posts: 70
    Yes they are serviceable, how would they fix it if it failed during the warranty period? Replace the car?

    Doubt they'll do that to the ABS. ABS works, why would car companies try to disable it?
  • norbnnorbn Member Posts: 70
    Are we allowed to post links? Check this one out...

    http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/rr/abs.htm
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    of these systems to replace if they fail when you're out of the warrenty coverage period?

    i don't think these ABS/VSC systems are serviceable are they?

    would you drive these vehicles with the system failed? would you knowingly drive with the airbag (frontal, side, or curtain) system failed?
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    You don't have to drive on gravel roads, only roads with gravel on them. This also goes for sand. In many northern states sand is used with or instead of salt. It piles up particularly at intersections. It is very common when braking suddenly in the Spring on a supposedly paved road to find yourself on essentially a gravel surface. Again, the front wheel ABS significantly extends stopping distances as I and many others have experienced. This is particularly a problem at intersections where just a few extra car lengths can cause a real problem.

    I totally agree with the previous post that once VSC becomes standard on all vehicles, it will control the front wheel ABS. At that point drivers will experience the best of both worlds -control and stability. Until then, front wheel ABS will continue to extend stopping distances on rough surfaces. Whether that is "negligible" would probably depend on whether you stopped before or after you were broadsided at an intersection.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I flew out of Deadhorse after driving the haul road in the early 90's and I don't remember it being gravel. I was in Barrow last year in April and it was paved. The Bethel Bump is still notorious, but it's been paved since at least the early 80's. And Anchorage keeps their runways down to the concrete all winter - I can't remember the last jet that slid off the runway up there (if one did it was probably on a taxi way, and I bet it wasn't an Alaska jet. Nothing flops up in the first 100 Google hits). But thanks for the walk down memory lane :-)

    And I thought jets locked the front wheels on landing so they can't "steer" until they are down and ready to taxi to the gate.

    Norbn, links are fine.

    Spartanmann, there's still a lot of granite looking sand on the side of the hilly road I live on left over from the winter and it's slippery. I'm sure I could get the ABS to kick in nicely on it :-)

    Steve, Host
  • vitkvitk Member Posts: 6
    Hello,

    I'm new to this Sienna forum (but have been reading for quite some time this and other Sienna 2004 related discussions since I'm preparing myself for negotiations.)
    So, here is my question. Can anyone comment on effectiveness of the hood protector and/or any side effects of one (i.e. increased noise level at higher speeds, etc.)

    Thanks.
  • norbnnorbn Member Posts: 70
    Have you done a scientific study on ABS lenthening stopping distances with sandy roads? Or is it just your opinion? Cause if it is, don't post it as fact to try and scare people into thinking ABS is dangerous.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    My landings go back to the days of Wein Consolidated 737s with the forward cabin dedicated to cargo. Barrow was paved back then but Deadhorse was pea gravel. The runway was short, just long enough if you nailed the approach, and the plane was still going too fast turning, slewing gravel, off the runway into the terminal.

    My landings at Anchorage and Fairbanks were mostly Pan-Am, and in the wintertime there was no hope of removing the thin layer of hard frozen ice on the runways at those temperatures. I can't imagine how they might do it even today.

    Oh, the runway always "looked" clear, but in truth was coated with ice. Queasy feeling as the aircraft slewed left and right slightly down the runway on landing.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Must be all black ice that looks like asphalt :-).

    The Barrow flight was all cargo igloos in the front half of the Alaska jet. Lot of CR-Vs there but didn't see any Siennas.

    The aging Odyssey seems to be holding its own against the Sienna in the surveys:

    AutoPacific Announces 2004 Vehicle Satisfaction Awards

    We have a comparison going over in Honda Odyssey vs Toyota Sienna; feel free to join in.

    Steve, Host
  • kmeadkmead Member Posts: 232
    No, it was not opinion, and it also is not a scary issue. There is just a difference in how a ABS car stops (somewhat longer) than a non ABS car with the wheels locked.

    Similar information to what I spoke of can be found here:

    http://www.abs-education.org/faqs/faqindex.htm

    Quote: "In what circumstances might conventional brakes have an advantage over ABS? There are some conditions where stopping distance may be shorter without ABS. For example, in cases where the road is covered with loose gravel or freshly fallen snow, the locked wheels of a non-ABS car build up a wedge of gravel or snow, which can contribute to a shortening of the braking distance."
  • pottebaumpottebaum Member Posts: 15
    Hey,
    We are considering getting a Sienna, and I was wondering:
    Are leather seats more comfortable?
  • kmeadkmead Member Posts: 232
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    Nothing posted was opinion or an attempt to scare anyone. Longer stopping distances for front wheel ABS equipped vehicles on rough surfaces are openly acknowledged by the manufacturers and have been documented by independent testing. Not every safety innovation improves safety in every case. Air bags are certainly the prime example of this.

    My post was purely to dispell an illusion posted by others that ABS provides shorter controlled stops in all situations. This is simply false and can lead to some unfortunate consequences if the driver is not aware of the actual limitations. ABS does provide controlled stops, just not necessarily shorter stops in all situations. Rear wheel ABS is essential.
    Front wheel ABS is an improvement on icy and wet pavement, but not so for gravel and rough surfaces.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    There is ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCE wherein ABS will PREDICTABLY or RELIABLY provide shorter stopping distance.

    Your owners manual makes this VERY CLEAR!
  • sev6sev6 Member Posts: 26
    Just saying hi. I'm new here to edmunds. Have an 04 sienna for four months. No problems. Perfect.
  • ewtewt Member Posts: 127
    "There is ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCE wherein ABS will PREDICTABLY or RELIABLY provide shorter stopping distance."

    You're right. The widespread acceptance of ABS by auto manufacturers and racing teams is all a big conspiracy. Oh by the way, the black helicopters are circling outside too.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Let's not make it personal. ABS has been lauded and questioned for years now:

    The Attack on Anti-Lock Brakes

    Fixing Antilock Brakes

    Steve, Host
  • ewtewt Member Posts: 127
    I don't think there's much debate that used properly, ABS reduces stopping distances and increases control on the vast majority of road surfaces. In racing series where it is allowed (and it isn't in some because it is a performance advantage), the use of ABS is universal.

    The fundamental problem, identified in the second link is that most drivers don't have a clue how to use ABS to its potential, and suffer from the "moral hazard" phenomena which makes them think that ABS makes them invincible (also commonly demonstrated by drivers of AWD/4WD vehicles in the snow). ABS isn't the problem, lack of driving skill is.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I have never said that ABS isn't useful, but it will be a lot moreso once it's coupled to the VSC system so that it doesn't activate unless directional control is threatened.
  • pottebaumpottebaum Member Posts: 15
    Is there any info on the 2005 Seinnas?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Gee, seems like the entirely new '04's just came out yesterday :-)

    Try the Toyota Sienna Owners: Future Models discussion.

    Steve, Host
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Let's hope Toyota simplifies the ordering procedure for adding the options. Seems like that's the biggest complaint about getting a Sienna.

    Steve, Host
  • rajmoranrajmoran Member Posts: 46
    Hi all,
    I'm the proud owner of a new 8-passenger Sienna LE with option package 11 (the Stereo/DVD combo). The van shares garage space with my '00 ECHO and, as you might imagine, is in many ways the polar opposite of that car. The ECHO's reliability helped sell me on the Sienna, so I hope my faith in Toyota is well-placed.
  • sev6sev6 Member Posts: 26
    Congrats. My family has got a 04 LE too. But we got package #1. I hat e it. All it add is power door(to one side!) homelink, and guess that's it.
  • mark76mark76 Member Posts: 15
    I don't like leather seats for a variety of reasons. They are typically hard and (unless the seat is well contoured) you slide around in them, making them uncomfortable. But at least they'll burn your legs in summer and freeze your rear in the winter. Note the sarcasm! ;-) Oh yeah, after a few years it will get these wrinkles with deep stains that you'll never get out. Kinda like an old shoe.

    We had to order our Sienna XLE (with pkg #5)to get the options and avoid the leather. I personally think leather (SEATING SURFACES only, remember)is way over rated in most cars. Mostly because the leather used in mass appeal autos is of fair to poor quality. I remember all the vinyl seats cars used to have and most of the leather you get in cars today feels no better than the vinyl. Yes, you can get quality leather seats but you typically find it only in premium autos. The leather in the Sienna we test drove did not impress me in the least.

    Try out both leather and cloth and weigh the pros and cons of each. One big advantage of leather is that spills clean up easily.
  • dako_tiandako_tian Member Posts: 298
    "One big advantage of leather is that spills clean up easily."

    The same could be said of Granny's clear vinyl sofa "protector" slip covers, but I never was comfortable sitting on them. Of course, the sofa looked great for whoever inherited it! ;-)

    So far, I have yet to see leather seats in any vehicle that still look good after 3 years of use. They stretch. They sag. They bunch. They wrinkle. They take on a rich patina clearly delimiting the (as Jay Leno would put it) buttockal area that has spent the most time on the seat.

    For many years now, cloth seats have held up much better, even if they sometimes would require stain removal. Most that I have seen have suffered very little such need. Perhaps fabric protectors and the new fibers are responsible for their generally excellent and easy cleanup. They are certainly very tough and wear very well.

    I do believe, if it were necessary, I would actually pay the premium for the cloth. But, hey! I don't have to! ;-)
  • jm38jm38 Member Posts: 27
    We have had our Limited Sienna for about 4 months now. My wife drives because of my medical condition. Her biggest complaint is that the brake pedal is too small. Has anyone heard of a possible solution to this problem? I remember in the days of my youth, you get get bigger pedals (remember the ones shaped like a bare foot including the toes?) to replace the originals. Is there a bigger brake pedal available? Thanks.
  • steph280steph280 Member Posts: 20
    Sorry I beg to differ. The leather you are getting now in Siennas and many other vehicles are not true leather like those from cow skins, but synthetic stuff that are made to last much longer than 3 years. My 10 years old Mercedes that was traded for Sienna had "MBTex" which is a version of leather/vinyl that would not stretch/fade/wrinkle/etc. On they day of the trade in the seats are as good as day one. My gripe about cloth seats is that they are difficult to clean with kids, they generate static electricity with certain fabric, and they rip/tear easy. On top of that, the rear headrest area usually can not stand the southern California heat for a few years and starts fading/ripping.
    Of course there are downsides to leather as well, like BBQ thigh on hot summer days.

    Stephen
  • kmeadkmead Member Posts: 232
    Do not confuse MBTex for leather or the material Toyota uses on its seats.

    MBTex is not leather in any shape manner or form, it is indeed a Vinyl product albeit a very good one. MB Tex like many of the high quality vinyls offered by European makers lasts much longer than most any leather can.

    Toyota uses a highly processed leather that is very finished. It will last for a long tme, but ten years may be a bit beyond its ability. Just as ten years may be beyond the Toyota fabric's life as well.
  • pottebaumpottebaum Member Posts: 15
    I just went by the Toyota dealer, and they didn't have a Sienna with a DVD in the color we want (that tannish color, white, or grey) Do you think we should be able to find a Sienna with cloth seats, grey/tan/or white in color, and a DVD? (we want an XLE)

    Also, where do you guys see these packages on the toyota website?
  • kmeadkmead Member Posts: 232
    on Edmunds:
    http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/toyota/sienna/100257809/options.h- tml?x=95&y=17&tid=edmunds.n.prices.pricebox..1.Toyota*

    GT
    XLE Package #19
    Includes power moonroof with sunshade, leather trimmed seats, second and third row side sunshades, 17" x 6.5" alloy wheels, P225/60R17 all season tires, rear seat audio, 2 wireless headphones, front side airbags, front, rear and third row curtain airbags, DVD rear entertainment system and DVD navigation system. NOT AVAILABLE with HG.

    GJ
    XLE Package #16
    Includes stability control, traction control, brake assist, rear disc brakes, windshield wiper de-icer, daytime running lamps, power moonroof with sunshade, leather trimmed seats, second and third row side sunshades, heated front seats, rear seat audio, JBL Synthesis AM/FM stereo, 6-disc in-dash CD changer, cassette player, 10 speakers, 2 wireless headphones, front side airbags, front, rear and third row curtain airbags and DVD rear entertainment system. NOT AVAILABLE with GK, GT, HG.

    GC
    XLE Package #13
    Includes power moonroof with sunshade, leather trimmed seats, second and third row side sunshades, heated front seats, rear seat audio, JBL Synthesis AM/FM stereo, 6-disc in-dash CD changer, cassette player, 10 speakers, 2 wireless headphones, 17" x 6.5" alloy wheels, P225/60R17 all season tires and DVD rear entertainment system. NOT AVAILABLE with GH, GI, GJ, GK, GT, HG.

    GI
    XLE Package #15
    Includes power moonroof with sunshade, leather trimmed seats, second and third row side sunshades, 17" x 6.5" alloy wheels, P225/60R17 all season tires, rear seat audio, 2 wireless headphones, front side airbags and front, rear and third row curtain airbags and DVD rear entertainment system. NOT AVAILABLE with GJ, GK, GT, HG.

    GH
    XLE Package #14
    Includes stability control, traction control, brake assist, rear disc brakes, windshield wiper de-icer, daytime running lamps, power moonroof with sunshade, leather trimmed seats, second and third row side sunshades, heated front seats, JBL Synthesis AM/FM stereo, 6-disc in-dash CD changer, cassette player, 10 speakers, front side airbags and front, rear and third row curtain airbags. NOT AVAILABLE with GI, GJ, GK, GT, HG.

    FR
    XLE Package #12
    Includes stability control, traction control, brake assist, rear disc brakes, windshield wiper de-icer, daytime running lamps, leather trimmed seats, second and third row side sunshades, heated front seats, front side airbags, front, rear and third row curtain airbags, P225/60R17 all season tires and 17" x 6.5" alloy wheels. NOT AVAILABLE with GC, GH, GI, GJ, GK, GT, HG.

    FP
    XLE Package #11
    Includes power moonroof with sunshade, leather trimmed seats, second and third row side sunshades, 17" x 6.5" alloy wheels, P225/60R17 all season tires, front side airbags and front, rear and third row curtain airbags. NOT AVAILABLE with FR, GC, GH, GI, GJ, GK, GT, HG.

    FC
    XLE Package #10
    Includes power moonroof with sunshade, leather trimmed seats, second and third row side sunshades, heated front seats, JBL Synthesis AM/FM stereo, 6-disc in-dash CD changer, cassette player, 10 speakers, P225/60R17 all season tires, and 17" x 6.5" alloy wheels. NOT AVAILABLE with FP, FR, GC, GH, GI, GJ, GK, GT, HG.

    ES
    XLE Package #9
    Includes power moonroof with sunshade, leather trimmed seats, second and third row side sunshades, heated front seats, JBL Synthesis AM/FM stereo, 6-disc in-dash CD changer, cassette player and 10 speakers. NOT AVAILABLE with FC, FP, FR, GC, GH, GI, GJ, GK, GT, HG.

    EP
    XLE Package #8
    Includes power moonroof with sunshade, leather trimmed seats, second and third row side sunshades and heated front seats. NOT AVAILABLE with ES, FC, FP, FR, GC, GH, GI, GJ, GK, GT, HG.

    GK
    XLE Package #17
    Includes leather trimmed seats, second and third row side sunshades, heated front seats, front side airbags and front, rear, and third row curtain airbags. NOT AVAILABLE with GT, HG.

    EI
    XLE Package #7
    Includes power moonroof with sunshade, leather trimmed seats, second and third row side sunshades, 17" x 6.5" alloy wheels, P225/60R17 all season tires, JBL Synthesis AM/FM stereo, 6-disc in-dash CD changer, cassette player and 10 speakers. NOT AVAILABLE with EP, ES, FC, FP, FR, GC, GH, GI, GJ, GK, GT, HG.

    CZ
    XLE Package #5
    Includes stability control, traction control, brake assist, rear disc brakes, windshield wiper de-icer, daytime running lamps, power moonroof with sunshade, front side airbags and front, rear and third row curtain airbags. NOT AVAILABLE with DG, EI, EP, ES, FC, FP, FR, GC, GH, GI, GJ, GK, GT, HG.

    DG
    XLE Package #6
    Includes power moonroof with sunshade, leather trimmed seats, and second and third row side sunshades. NOT AVAILABLE with EI, EP, ES, FC, FP, FR, GC, GH, GI, GJ, GK, GT, HG.

    CY
    XLE Package #4
    Includes leather trimmed seats, second and third row side sunshades and heated front seats. NOT AVAILABLE with CZ, DG, EI, EP, ES, FC, FP, FR, GC, GH, GI, GJ, GK, GT, HG.

    HG
    XLE Package #20
    Includes power moonroof with sunshade, front side airbags and front, rear and 3rd row curtain airbags.

    CX
    XLE Package #3
    Includes leather trimmed seats and second and third row side sunshades. NOT AVAILABLE with CY, CZ, DG, EI, EP, ES, FC, FP, FR, GC, GH, GI, GJ, GK, GT, HG.

    CU
    XLE Package #2
    Includes power moonroof with sunshade. NOT AVAILABLE with CX, CY, CZ, DG, EI, EP, ES, FC, FP, FR, GC, GH, GI, GJ, GK, GT, HG.

    CP
    XLE Package #1
    Includes stability control, traction control, brake assist, rear disc brakes, windshield wiper de-icer and daytime running lamps. NOT AVAILABLE with CU, CX, CY, CZ, DG, EI, EP, ES, FC, FP, FR, GC, GH, GI, GJ, GK, GT, HG.

    There are only four packages on the XLE without leather, none of them have DVD.

    Might I suggest an aftermarket DVD for much less money or even a portable DVD (or even several) that you remove from the car when not in use (less likely to be stolen, easy to have repaired).
  • pottebaumpottebaum Member Posts: 15
    "There are only four packages on the XLE without leather, none of them have DVD."

    I swear I saw a XLE Sienna with cloth seats and a DVD at the dealership though.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Many regions offer the DVD system as a stand alone accessory (PIO). I'm not sure if is the same DVD system (including a pair of 110v outlets) as is included in the packages listed above. Speaking from memory, I believe the MSRP on JUST the DVD system was $1600. So it is certainly possible to get an XLE with cloth and the DVD.
  • pottebaumpottebaum Member Posts: 15
    Another thing we would really want is the 3-row seet side airbags.
  • pottebaumpottebaum Member Posts: 15
    We are more interested in buying the van from a dealership than actually ordering it, since we need the van within a month or two.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Actually, only the front seats are available with side airbags (airbags built into the seats designed to protect the torso). The 3-row airbag which you are referring to deploys down from along the top of the doors to provide head protection in a side impact. Technical point, I know.....

    As an aside, does anyone know if any minivans are available with true side airbags (designed to protect the torso) for the second and third rows?
  • pottebaumpottebaum Member Posts: 15
    Do you think Toyota will include something like stow-n-go in the 2005 Sienna?
  • pottebaumpottebaum Member Posts: 15
    I actually sort of hope they won't. If we buy a Sienna, we have to get it in 2004, and I would hate to see a Sienna come out with stow-n-go right after I bought my 2004!
  • kenhall64kenhall64 Member Posts: 16
    I think the the Stow-N-Go second row seats will not be copied by Toyota, Honda, Ford or GM. They eliminate AWD and for seats to fit into the floor they are built thin. The only advantage I see in them is the storage area.
  • kmeadkmead Member Posts: 232
    Side airbags in 2nd and 3rd rows are not recomended for seats where children sit as they are often out of position such as asleep and leaning against the side bolster.

    Several high end luxury cars (Audi, BMW, MB) offer side airbags in the rear, all of them recomend that the bags be deactivated for children if they are the primary occupants.

    Side curtain airbags don't have the same problem as they extend from the top and hug the window line closely and will generally not hit a person before the person hits it. It is a good idea to ensure your children are never leaning against the side of the car. In the Sienna due to the arrangement of the seating it is not possible to really lean on the window sill.

    If you are really concerned about side impact safety for your children, please consider the new Britax seats:
    http://www.britaxusa.com/products.cfm?action=ShowProduct&pro_- id=55919304-ADD8-4E21-84D0D7E6C23B708C

    http://www.britaxusa.com/products.cfm?action=ShowProduct&pro_- id=E1B65DDE-13AE-4AB6-BEE87A144FAFBCB5

    I have a Sienna with package 7 which includes side airbags, side curtain airbags and VSC and highly recommend them all. A few dollars invested at purchase could reap huge cost savings and quality of life benefits someday in the future.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Thanks. That makes a great deal of sense. WRT the children and seat-mounted side airbag issue, couldn't manufacturers install sensors in the seat so if the seat was either unoccupied or had too little weight (child occupant), the seat-mounted side airbag wouldn't fire, yet protection could be offered for adult occupants?
This discussion has been closed.