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BMW 1-Series

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Comments

  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Thank you.

    Yes. The run flats! Seems like BMW is making a lot of questionable decisions lately-none of them in favor of driving enthusiasts.

    I won't mind moving over to Porsche when they come out with that small, sporty hatchback. I have driven its cheaper "cousin", the VW Rabbit, which I found to be a lot of fun to drive with an incredible amount of interior space. I can't even begin to imagine what Porsche will do with a hatch.

    More in line with the topic-why would anybody shell out for a 135i, when for a few thousand more, drive a better-looking coupe which doesn't have the stigma of being BMW's "entry-level" model? BMWNA will even give you back $500 for buying/leasing the 335i through BMWCCA membership, but not for the 135i. Puzzling.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    "Either the electronic "dipstick" they use is fiercely and deadly accurate, or they must be prepared to pick up the cost under warranty. . ."

    Well, there are people with a bridge that they'd love you to buy. Two things:

    1) The oil level sensor was, in fact, quite unreliable after its initial introduction. If you're me, you're wondering why on God's earth anyone thought it was a good idea to take a $5 dipstick and replace it with something that cost an order of magnitude more & didn't work.

    2) Anytime you think you'll come out ahead trying to recover major engine damage under a warranty (as opposed to being able to just check the fricking oil), you're living in a different world than mine. Then there's the "factory bubble" that I hate to ever break. Letting ham-handed dealership "mechanics" tear into a vehicle on the off chance that they'll get everything back in right is not where I want to go.

    I have voted on these issues with my money. I spent most of four years thinking that my next vehicle would be a BMW. It was not.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    I won't mind moving over to Porsche when they come out with that small, sporty hatchback. I have driven its cheaper "cousin", the VW Rabbit, which I found to be a lot of fun to drive with an incredible amount of interior space. I can't even begin to imagine what Porsche will do with a hatch.

    What kind of small sporty hatchback is Porsche coming out with? Built off the FWD Rabbit platform?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "why would anybody shell out for a 135i, when for a few thousand more, drive a better-looking coupe which doesn't have the stigma of being BMW's "entry-level" model?"

    Ummm, because you get more performance for less money? :confuse:

    Seems like a winning combination to me...
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Hey, I'm not necessarily saying I agree with what they are doing. Just being the Devil's Advocate.

    Has it been proven that the oil level sensor is unreliable? If so, how was it shown to be unreliable? You know BMW is not the only manufacturer to use an oil level sensor. Lexus and Land Rover I believe also use one, to name 2. (Now, they might also include a dipstick for free!)

    Just another thought, regarding why take away a $5 dipstick: Perhaps too many owners don't bother using it? I think society is a whole is moving towards everything being automated and maintenance-free.

    Again, I'm just trying to present another side to the argument. Don't beat me up!
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    ...but also less utility, luxury. I guess only time will tell if BMW, with the 1-series and the X6 in particular, tried to answer a question no one asked.

    (Now, I do think the 1-series cabriolet makes sense, since not everyone wants a power retractable hardtop)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    The 2012 Porsche hatchback will be based on the European Golf (American Rabbit). If you Google "Porsche hatchback", there is information to be had: a 295 hp boxer engine lifted from the Boxster, though front mounted, with AWD, using VW parts. I would guess $40k-$45k for this little baby.

    I'll be waiting.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Not much less money. The 135i is a bit too expensive, IMO, and one gets the "entry level" stigma along with it. I'm not knocking the 135's drive, but there should have been a bit more differentiation between the segments.

    Terrific for 3 Series buyers. Not only do they get a great vehicle, but it is no longer "entry level" BMW.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    "Has it been proven that the oil level sensor is unreliable?"

    Well, that depends on what the meaning of "proven" is. What I do know is that after the oil level sensor was introduced, the 3-series boards were full of reports of failed sensors and/or questions as to how to determine how much oil there was in the crankcase if the sensor had failed. To add to the joy, since it was a relatively new idea/part, spares weren't readily available. It may have failed, but at least you couldn't get a replacement.

    Oh, and the answer to the question is: Drain the oil and measure it. Pour it back in. Repeat.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "Not much less money."

    It's $6,000 less. That's a significant amount of money in my book.

    "The 135i is a bit too expensive"

    Name any other 300 HP luxury sport coupe/sedan that costs less.

    "and one gets the "entry level" stigma"

    If someone wants to spend an extra $6,000 just because they can't stand having a "1" on the trunk, then they simply don't deserve (and wouldn't appreciate) a "1." Personally, I've never perceived a "stigma" with any BMW. I don't see the 1, 3, 5, or 7 as "climbing up" some imaginary status ladder - and I feel sorry for anyone who cares so much about trying to impress their neighbors.

    To me (and many enthusiasts here), the top of the BMW rung is the car with the most aggressive/most fun-to-drive combination of small size, light weight, and horsepower/torque. Right now, IMO, BMW only sells two "sports cars" - the Z4 M Coupe and M3 (debatable). The 135i falls one notch below these two, but also is a lot more accessible.

    Considering that you can get BMW performance, driving dynamics, and luxury for the price of a Subaru WRX STI or Mitsubishi Evo, I'd say it's a lot of car for the money.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    If you are going to shell out big bucks for an over-priced small coupe, why not shell out $6000 more and get the ultimate, perfectly-proportioned, better-looking vehicle, which performs as close to the legendary M3 as many of us will ever get. Considering that the price differential between the M3 and 335i coupes is $17.000-$18,000, the 335i coupe becomes the screaming relative bargain, not the 135i. One can always borrow the $6000. Heck, instead of wasting time posting here, one could be out there picking up refundable cans and bottles for a year-the goal: to come up with the $6000 to close the deal on the amazing 335i coupe.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    which performs as close to the legendary M3 as many of us will ever get.

    Actually, the 135 is even closer, so if that is your goal .... ??

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    No thanks.

    Whoops! 12:06 PM. Time to go out and pick up some cans and bottles. :)
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "...you can get BMW performance, driving dynamics, and luxury for the price of a Subaru WRX STI or Mitsubishi Evo..."

    Well, you would need to take "luxury" out of the equation. A base 135 is pretty spartan. And if you start to click off a couple of options the price creeps even closer to the 335.
  • davidd3davidd3 Member Posts: 582
    After researching the 1, test driving the 1, getting all excited about the 1, convincing myself that I could actually get my kids in the back if I had to, etc., I finally dragged my wife to a dealer to see it and she nixed it immeidately on looks alone. Said it looks like a scrunched up 3 and she couldn't believe I actually wanted to get one. So now it's been nixed, since this would be a shared car (her for commuting, me for weekends). She did like the 3 coupe though. So much for saving money . . .
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    The 1 Series Coupe does indeed look like a "scrunched up 3". I don't blame her for preferring the 3 Coupe. Her taste is obviously exquisite.

    You should be grateful the wife put some much needed sanity back in your life! ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    :D
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Glad you liked it! ;)
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    I see you've escaped from the Luxury Lounge. I'm sure the nuns are fixen to set the hounds after you.

    If looks are that important, isn't the A5/S5 better looking than them all?

    All that to say, I love the 1 series. We sell everyone that we can get.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    So you're a BMW salesman? Boy, what an arrogant attitude! Unbelieveable!
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Hey! Good to hear from you my friend!

    I feel a lot of passion went out of the LL with the seemingly permanent sabbaticals of some terrific former members.

    Meanwhile, BMWFS has phoned me twice over the last 10 days, attempting to get me to buy my leased 2005 545i which I'm returning at the end of July. The residual is $34,300. First offer 10 days ago: $4000 off. Second offer today: $5600 off. If they get down to $25,000 as the purchase price, I'll be listening....

    Some horror story eh? All those V8, 20 mpg 545i's coming off lease with nobody to buy them. They will take a killing at Manheim.

    You know, getting back to the thread's topic, if I suddenly found a red or black 135i coupe sitting in my driveway, I would keep it without any protest. I just think the 335i coupe is a better vehicle. I don't hate the BMW 1 Series coupes; I just don't comprehend the reason for building them when you already have the 3 Series coupes which I still maintain look better, are more roomy and perform just as well as the 1's.

    Anyone here who has a 1 Series: Enjoy it! :)

    And yes, I agree. The A5/S5 are very handsome coupes with absolutely gorgeous interiors. As usual Audi beats BMW in the looks department. It's just that the A5/S5 will lose in sheer driving pleasure to BMW every time. It's why we put up with the "same old" boring BMW interiors. BMW has us hooked.

    Regards,

    Hpowders
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "A base 135 is pretty spartan."

    Spartan is a relative term. It comes with pretty much everything the 335i does.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Yeah, I suppose...but I just find the 3's interior more upscale-looking.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    "If you are going to shell out big bucks for an over-priced small coupe, why not shell out $6000 more and get the ultimate, perfectly-proportioned, better-looking vehicle"

    Hey, I agree the 335i Coupe is prettier than the 135i. Obviously, the better looks and roomier cabin are worth an extra $6000 to you. That's cool. And if you don't mind the performance hit you suffer from the added size and weight, then OK. I guess our priorities in a sporty coupe are different.

    "...performs as close to the legendary M3 as many of us will ever get. Considering that the price differential between the M3 and 335i coupes is $17.000-$18,000, the 335i coupe becomes the screaming relative bargain, not the 135i."

    You lost me here. The 135i outperforms the 335i and costs less, so how can the 335i be the "screaming relative bargain?"

    But really, who are we kidding? Calling the 335i (or 135i) a "bargain" compared to the M3 is like calling a Yamaha upright piano a bargain compared to a Steinway Concert Grand.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Well, it is roomier. But otherwise, I can't really tell the difference between the two.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    The difference in performance between the 135i and 335i coupe is so close, there was no justification for BMW to create the former vehicle. And speaking of mass, the 135i is pretty darn hefty for its size.

    BMW could have really made a statement here by creating a lighter vehicle like the 2002 used to be, devoid of the heavy technological doodads that most of us surely don't need; a car designed for purists, with a stick, basic radio, manually adjusted cloth seats, with a great BMW engine, suspension and brakes say for $30,000 plus tax, out the door. They would have earned my respect.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    sure how that's arrogant but anyway.

    HP, I gotta go with Fedlawman on this, in a cash, or finance purchase, the 1 series is a hit IMO. 200 pounds is 200 pounds. Room is irrelevant when discussing performance isn't it?

    At any rate, I'm still jealous of your 545. It's such a sleeper.

    As far as stuff we don't need, I agree. But a lot of that stuff is government mandated. Airbags, tire pressure monitoring, you can't build a car without those things nowadays.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I'm not sure there is any real-life "performance hit" to speak off.

    I'm assuming by "relative bargain", he was referring to more than just performance specs on paper.

    I can't quite equate the Yamaha to Steinway analogy, but that's neither here nor there.

    Let me put it this way, if I can only buy and keep one car for the rest of my life, I would feel quite comfortable in picking the 335i. Not sure I can say the same about the 135i. Well, ok, I know I can't say that about the 135i.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Oh sure. The 1 Series is a big hit. I never stated that it wasn't selling well. The 335i is already more fun than the state troopers will allow me. Slightly better performance of a 135i (if you say so. I'm not convinced) doesn't do anything for me. As it is, I have to keep the 545i on a muzzle leash. It will not go under 80 mph on the highway. I have tried, but the default setting seems to be 80. I am obviously driving the 545i in the wrong country. :(

    I'm planning on giving back the 545i late next month. I know BMWFS will never offer me a $25k buyout price, but if they go down to $28k(they are currently at $29,307 from an original buyout price of $34,300), I may decide to buy it. The vehicle has behaved flawlessly for 3 years and has less than 26k miles on it.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I do agree that BMW missed an opportunity to make the 135i something really special. It's no 2002.
  • davidd3davidd3 Member Posts: 582
    You should be grateful the wife put some much needed sanity back in your life!

    Fair enough.

    Now my problem is the realization that a 3-coupe is a bad lease deal as compared to a comparably equipped a 3-sedan (which is what I have now). A comparably equipped coupe costs about $2,000 more to begin with. That I knew. But then I checked the leasing programs and found that the residuals are lower and the money factors are higher. The combination of these 3 factors working against a person wanting to lease a 3-coupe are so forceful that the situation is such that I could actually lease a 335i sedan for about the same monthly payment as a 328i coupe. Humm. Given that choice, I think I'd prefer the power boost and the 2 extra doors over the coupe's nicer looks.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Yes. That is what is so annoying to me. They missed a chance to do something really special. The hype was that the 1 Series was going back to 2002 roots. Must have been the same reporter who wrote that the 2005 Lexus GS was going to be a true 5 Series killer. Yeah. Right.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well, if you want a BMW lease bargain, the cheapest one right now is the 328i sedan.

    The problem is, as usual with BMW's entry-level inline 6 engines, there is absolutely no low-end power from rest. I drove one about 6 weeks ago and I must say, the Accord EX V6 had better acceleration. Of course, once you are at speed, the 328i is as much fun as any BMW can be.

    The terrific BMW leasing deals we all got used to are over, thanks to the big decline in the US dollar relative to the Euro.

    The worst leasing terms are on the 1 Series. Anyone wanting one should think of purchasing instead.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    BMW could have really made a statement here by creating a lighter vehicle like the 2002 used to be, devoid of the heavy technological doodads that most of us surely don't need; a car designed for purists, with a stick, basic radio, manually adjusted cloth seats, with a great BMW engine, suspension and brakes say for $30,000 plus tax, out the door. They would have earned my respect.

    I'm with you on that one, but you're not going to get it. Like dhamilton said: Modern BMWs are all going to have airbags up the wazoo, dsc (or dtc whatever they call it now), abs, sunroofs. You're not going to get a 2100 lb car with a BMW badge on it.

    For me, as much as I'd love to have a 135i with its 300 hp twin turbo Inline 6, I can get a 128i with a few choice options (Sport Package, Sirius, Heated seats, & Xenon) that stickers for around $34,000.

    You say you're into this Porsche hatchback thingy with a FWD based AWD system (didn't you say something about heavy technoligical doo-dads)that willl suffer from terminal understeer & be nose heavy. For the $40-$45K price...I'm going to get myself a Boxster.

    EDIT: Your 545i is a sweet car. I'd love to have an E60 535i or 550i in my stable.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • davidd3davidd3 Member Posts: 582
    Yes, the 328i sedan is the best BMW lease program this month. However, it is not a good lease program. Residuals dropped 4 whole percentage points in May and stayed that way in June. And the money factor is so so, not high like 1-Series but not aggressive like other car company financing arms either. I'm thinking about extending my lease to see what the lease programs look like on early 2009s. I am hoping that residuals will be higher (as they should be in the beginning of a new model year) while the money factor would if anything get lower. Even BMW has got to do something to boost new car sales in these bad times, or so it would seem.

    Infiniti, on the other hand, is just about giving away G35s, the widely regarded #2 car in this market segment. Much lower MSRP to begin with + invoice pricing + high residual + low money factor = WAY lower monthly payment on a lease than even a 328i sedan. It's a relative gas-guzzler (which may be the reason for the aggressive pricing and lease program), but it's mighty tempting. The more comparable 335i would actually cost about 50% more on a lease that the G35!

    Back on topic, my fling with the 1 is now officially over . . .
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well the 545i, while a sweet car, outside of the warranty can be a mighty expensive one. The car is so technologically complicated with the i Drive and the car's uncanny ability to self-diagnose itself, automatic headlights, memory seats, etc; And then there is the V8 engine. I don't want to even begin to think how expensive a repair could be.

    All this means that while BMWFS is lowering the buyout price for me, I would have to be nuts to take on the potential for major expenses as the vehicle ages. All this technology can become a heck of an expensive nightmare. I will pass.

    The best way to drive BMWs is to lease them every three years and keep turning them over. Never get attached to them.

    As far as the Porsche version of the Rabbit hatch is concerned, I trust Porsche will make it the best performing, as well as the most expensive, hatch ever. They will overcome the problems you mention, somehow. It should be worth waiting for to see exactly how they accomplish this.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Well, the 2009's will be coming out sometime in the fall, so it is normal for the residuals to be dropping during June on the 2008's. It looks like BMW is not having any trouble moving out the 1 and 3 Series vehicles. Their big concern is what the heck to do with vehicles like my 2005 545i coming back to BMW off lease this summer that get only 20 mpg and will be expensive to maintain starting a year from now after the warranty expires.
  • kafuka2002kafuka2002 Member Posts: 2
    The BMW 1 Series (code name E87) is a small-luxury car / small family car produced by the German automaker BMW since 2004. The 1 Series is the only vehicle in its class featuring rear-wheel drive and a longitudinally-mounted engine.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    20 mpg is not bad. Most midsize cars are epa city rated at less than 20 mpg.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Right. 20 mpg is terrific for a 4.4 liter 325 hp V8. The reason I will not buy it is the inevitable high maintenance costs after year four. The vehicle has so much technology. The repair bills down the road will be very high.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Shouldn't history serve as some indication? If your car has been completely trouble-free thus far, would the repairs really explode just because the car passes some point on the calendar?

    It seems you have a low-mileage, trouble-free car with great performance and decent gas mileage that you can retain at or below market value. If it were me, I would think twice about it.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    count on BMW raising residuals any time soon. Just a hunch on my part. They had to write off over 300 million in losses due to inflated residual values last year.

    They are realizing what a lot of us have been saying for a while. The residuals don't reflect real world prices.

    All that said, BMW's still hold their mud better than most.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    What you say sounds great on paper, but the vehicle has so much technology, who knows how much some of it will cost to fix when the time comes? I read in Roundel that BMW automatic transmissions are eventually troublesome over the long term.

    Another thing-with the 4 year free maintenance, all of a sudden oil changes became necessary at 15,000 mile intervals. Before the free maintenance, BMW required you to bring the car in at 1500 miles and after that more frequently for oil changes. As soon as they began picking up the tab, it became "see you every 15,000 miles." True, the oil is synthetic, but can I buy a vehicle that has had its oil changed at 15,000 mile intervals? That's still a lot of miles, even for synthetic oil. Who knows what the effect will be on that expensive V8 engine by years 5 through 8?
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,370
    I read in Roundel that BMW automatic transmissions are eventually troublesome over the long term.

    Read it again, Roundel's techies say BMW's A/Ts are troublesome if you make the mistake of believing BMW's BS about "Lifetime Fill". They believe new trans oil and filters at 60-70K intervals will result in good service life.

    The A/T in my E39 528iA shifts more smoothly at 105K than the one in my MIL's LeSabre at 35K. ;)

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Yes. They did mention that "lifetime fill" stuff. Glad to hear what you said about your AT.

    Well, BMWFS came down twice already on the buyout price. It is now at $28,700 from an original $34,300. A trouble-free 2005 545i with 25,800 miles, no dings, new Conti tires, AT, non-sport, premium package and comfort seats.

    Something tells me, they will come down even further on the buyout price. According to inventory data, my dealer has four 2005 545i's sitting on his lot already. They don't want my vehicle back. For me to be interested, they will have to come down a bit more.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Even if it does need some major repairs down the road, it's still cheaper than a new car.

    $28,000 for a like-new 545i is a screaming deal. I've seen E46's selling for that.
  • waitingwaiting Member Posts: 2
    I ordered a BMW 1 Series at the end of April. I was told the wait would be seven weeks from when it was ordered. I was just given a production number today. I also just found out today that the car won't go into production until July with an anticipated delivery at the end of August. Can anyone explain this? I have ordered cars before but they never took very long.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I agree. The price is right. I put a non-refundable deposit of $500 on another vehicle several weeks ago, before BMWFS' price-slashing effort, but that is indeed small change compared to BMWFS' $5600 discount. I must seriously think about it.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I did read somewhere that BMW was limiting production of the 1 Series-not as many will be delivered here as say the 3 Series. That could certainly produce a longer than usual wait.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    They are limiting total production for the year to 10k units. This is a pretty limited car compared to the 3 or even Mini Cooper.
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