BMW 1-Series

hpowders · June 2008

That would explain the long wait. It would also explain why BMW is asking for and getting MSRP, as well as the high money factor on a 1 Series lease.

roadburner · June 2008

Even if it does need some major repairs down the road, it's still cheaper than a new car.

Exactly. Or, as I said over on the "Smart Shoppers" board...

I see lots of folks on the BMW boards who buy/lease one new Bimmer after another at $450-$700 per month because they don't want to risk paying those "expensive BMW maintenance and repair costs". The last time I checked my maintenance records the service/repair costs for my 113K mile 1995 3er were averaging $50/month while my wife's 62K mile 2004 X3 was averaging $90/month. Since I own both vehicles free and clear, can someone please explain how paying an additional $500-$600 per month per car would save me money?
(I sure hope someone can; I need a rational justification to buy a new M3 sedan)

bodble2 · June 2008

Is buying an extended warranty not another option?

bodble2 · June 2008

"...can someone please explain how paying an additional $500-$600 per month per car would save me money?"

Well, of course you're not saving money per se, but you would be enjoying the luxury of driving a new car every 3 years.

hpowders · June 2008

Sure. So is having BMW CPO it for an additional $1500 which kicks in after year four, but doesn't cover basic stuff. It does cover expensive things like the AT, suspension and engine. This covers years five and six only.

Driving only 9000 miles a year, time would be on my side against major system failures.

hpowders · June 2008

I wouldn't be saving all that much unless I pay the buyout as all cash. If I instead finance a large portion of the buyout price with BMWFS at 4.9%, I am financing on top of financing: first the lease and then the loan. The interest really adds up over 6 years.

roadburner · June 2008

Well, of course you're not saving money per se, but you would be enjoying the luxury of driving a new car every 3 years.

My long term plan is take the money I save and buy a clean M1 in a couple of years.

bodble2 · June 2008

"clean M1"

You sure you can find one?

roadburner · June 2008

You sure you can find one?

Yes, I'm friends with several people in the M1 Register. The cars usually change hands "under the radar", so when I'm ready to take the plunge I'll just let those people know I'm in the market. Only 455 were built-399 road cars and 65 race cars-so you have to know where to look. The ones that have been sold recently have gone for $100,000-$120,000. If I don't get one in the next couple of years I'll probably be priced out of the market. If that happens I think I'll assemble a collection of 1st generation US M cars-E30 M3, E28 M5, and E24 M6. I know I can do that for no more than $50,000-$60000 tops.

circlew · June 2008

I lease a BMW for performance and the simple fact that cars keep improving each year has led me to seek those improvements more often than owning for extensive periods.

I can't wait to trade my '06 for the '09 replacement, whatever I decide.

Regards,
OW

roadburner · June 2008

I lease a BMW for performance and the simple fact that cars keep improving each year has led me to seek those improvements more often than owning for extensive periods.

I guess it all depends on what you consider to be an "improvement". While there are a few things I like about the current non ///M cars-Comfort Access for example-there are many more things that I don't care for, such as increased mass, RFTs, the lack of a true LSD(and dipstick) and the ever more intrusive Bavarian nannies. And one more thing; "the simple fact that cars keep improving each year" isn't necessarily a fact. I dusted off a couple of my back issues of Car and Driver and compared the test results of a 2006 E90 330i Sport to the numbers generated by a 2003 E46 330i ZHP. And remember, the E46 platform dates back to 1999...
0-60 time- Identical (5.6)
1/4 mile time- Identical (14.3)
Lateral Acceleration- E46: .86g E90: .89g
Braking 70-0- E46: 158 ft E90: 154 ft
Top Speed- E46: 152 E90: 148
While seven years separates the development of the two platforms, in any matchup between these two cars it is driving ability alone that would determine the winner. Speaking of driving ability, if you really want to experience a significant increase in performance, start attending CCA driving schools on a regular basis. Are the newest Bimmers "better" than the older ones? Sure, especially in the case of the 135i/335i(although I still have serious reservations about the long-term reliability of the N54). In my case however, the differences are just not a sufficient reason to run out and rent a new one for three years at +$500 a month. That said, Britain's Car reports that

"...the next-gen 1-series, dubbed F20 and due in late 2011, will offer a tii version with a downsized twin-turbo four-cylinder petrol engine and a radically lighter body and chassis, we hear."

If that is indeed true, a new 1er may grace my driveway in 3-4 years.

tagman · June 2008

It is already a success in Europe. Our U.S. market gets a coupe because the hatchback market is too risky here.

As a 1-Series owner, I chose the car because it's an incredible drive in a small package! My 997 Porsche Carrera S is another small car that delivers stellar performance.

I did not want the 3-Series. I could have bought it years ago if I wanted it. It's too bloated for my taste, although the 335i Coupe is elegant enough.

The 1-Series stirred my desire. I don't give a rat's [non-permissible content removed] how much it weighs... It still essentially matches the previous M3 in performance! The 135i offers one sweeeeeeet drive... it's a rocket, and is sized just right for my taste. The 3er has grown too much.

It makes no difference to judge the 3's size because it's size expansion has left room for a smaller car. Some just don't see this But, sometimes less is more! The interior room is within a few millimeters of each other. That's remarkable. So the 3 is lots bigger on the exterior, but provides little addition in interior comfort or dimension.

In the final analysts, the one is more efficient with interior space and is faster than the 3. No way does this need some sort of justification. To me, the 1-Series is closer to what the 3-Series should have been.

But that said, I see no conflict of interest, and as these models further evolve, they will even more clearly distinguish themselves from each other. Often , people neglect to see down the road for varios models of cars, and forget that they will ultimately change.

The 1-Series will be even greater than it already is. IMO, the 1er is one of the most incredible cars to come around in a long while. I remember my Porsche Boxster, as it ignited a fire for Porsche vehicles. The 1er is a similar situation. There is nothing like it for the price... nothing!

TM

circlew · June 2008

I agree that the performance differences are very slight and no doubt due to the expansion of the 3-series. I also agree I could get better performance attending CCA DS's and you are never to old to learn. I appreciate the BMW response in many defensive maneuvers in the last 3 years. When a car becomes part of you, the results are amazing!

Leasing vs. buying will most times cost more. But now I'm poised to trade in the first E90 to try this new 1'er or similar sized replacement.

As TM says, pound for pound the 135i is probably in the top 1% of performance on the road for the price, a class of it's own. I am eager to take this to the CCA events. Not so my current xi.

The knowledge I have gained form this board pushes me to loose the AWD pacifier and let loose! Winter tires will suffice.

So, it cost me a lot but easier to switch to the higher performance and keep paying for it! There's more where it came from and you only go around once and I'm half done!

BTW, RFT's don't get a hold of me! The dipstick omit, however, does!

Regards,
OW

hpowders · June 2008

I guess that is the point: "the 1-Series is closer to what the 3-Series should have been." If BMW hadn't bloated the 3 Series almost beyond recognition, there would not have been a need for a 1 Series. I can indeed see disappointed enthusiasts bypassing a 3 Series in favor of the 1. For me, the 3 is an acceptable compromise.

Given today's market conditions, I feel a small sporty BMW hatch as an SUV alternative, would have been a more practical BMW creation than the unnecessary X6. Perhaps after Porsche releases their version of the VW Golf, BMW will counter.

hpowders · June 2008

aesthetically, the 3 Series Coupe is a better-looking vehicle than the 1.

No BMW's for me after next month despite 2 attempts from BMWFS to slash the 545i buyout price to get me interested.

roadburner · June 2008

I guess that is the point: "the 1-Series is closer to what the 3-Series should have been." If BMW hadn't bloated the 3 Series almost beyond recognition, there would not have been a need for a 1 Series.

Exactly, which is why I'll take a close look at the F20 1er. In the meantime I still might grab a new M3 sedan(or better yet, a wagon if it is offered). I'll consider it to be more of an M5 however, as it is very close in terms of exterior dimensions and mass to an E28 M5- only with a lot more power.

roadburner · June 2008

Instead I have decided to go with the practical but fun.....

What? I'd consider a Evo X MR if I wasn't looking at another Bimmer. Even though I'm going into semi-retirement on July 1st

I still need a car with four usable seats.

hpowders · June 2008

Even if the 135i coupe gives a slightly better thrill than the 335i coupe, the beauty of the 335i would absolutely make it my choice. They are both a bit bloated to be considered ideal sport coupes. Why not go with the better-looking one?

The only 1 Series vehicle I consider acceptable from an aesthetic standpoint is the convertible. I have not driven one, but it looks acceptable enough to drive during daylight hours.

Anyone who is not satisfied with a 335i coupe, will probably never be satisfied. I mean how fast can you go? The agility and handling to satisfy anyone are all there with the 335i. Every review of the 335i coupe has been with high praise bordering on ecstasy.

As far as the price differential is concerned, since one is overpaying anyway for the 1, what's a couple of thou more for a vehicle which is both highly satisfying to drive and pleasing to look at? That's what bank loans are for.

bodble2 · June 2008

Yup, agreed.

tagman · June 2008

335i better looking? The coupe and related convertible is good, that's it. But not better than the 135i.

In fact, BMW intentionally handcuffed Chris on this latest 3-Series because they wanted it to be plain vanilla. Internally, BMW had deliberate plans to keep the 3er generic, compared to other models. It's attractive, but the 1er is the one with the serious lines that stir the emotion. Now, OMO, the 335i coupe is elegant and sleek. but the 1er is flame-surfaced!

Check the internal dimension chart and you will discover that all this talk about significant extra room in a 3er is a myth. The 1 and the 3 are within mere millimeters of each other regarding interior dimensions. Check it for yourself.

The better performer for less money!! That's the 135i, not the 335i.

I see no reason to spend more money for a car that delivers minimum interior improvement, is less of a performer, and is larger on the exterior, and weighs hundreds of pounds more. The only exception to this for me would be the 335i retractable hardtop convertible... because it is unique in the lineup. And it is cool!!... VERY cool.

Bottom line? 135i is a better performing car, better-looking car, and it costs less!

TM

hpowders · June 2008

Aside from the fact that I don't consider the 1 Series coupe attractive, it is also a bit small to be my one and only daily driver.

My son-in-law, by the way just added a 2-seat, $200,000 F430 Ferrari coupe to his stable. I have to get up to NY and check it out.

blueguydotcom · June 2008

Aside from the fact that I don't consider the 1 Series coupe attractive, it is also a bit small to be my one and only daily driver.

Same interior space as the e46 coupe. How much space do you need for a daily driver?

bodble2 · June 2008

Not much difference, if any, in front seat room. The 3 has more back seat room, no question. 135i better performer? Yes, marginally and only of statistical significance because I doubt many people will say, "I gotta get the 135 'cause the 335 just doesn't perform well enough for me". Costs less? Yes, in absolute terms, but I think there is actually a strong argument that the prices of the 1 actually results in people stepping up to get the 3 instead. So, I dunno, is the 1 actually better value? As for better looking? Well....as they say...taste is subjective, which is good, or else ugly people would never find mates! But I suspect, if hypothetically, the 1 and 3 were priced the same, your taste would change.

hpowders · June 2008

I need a vehicle with a bigger trunk.

blueguydotcom · June 2008

Even at the same price, the 1 series would be my option. I owned an e90. No thanks.

bodble2 · June 2008

Personally, I can't reconcile with that, but you obviously have different preferences, albeit likely in the minority, so fair enough.

blueguydotcom · June 2008

The majority in America also likes McDonald's and is obese...sometimes being in the minority isn't so bad.

tagman · June 2008

LOL...

I'm a 1-Series buyer, regardless of price, also. I doubt it's the minority, when put in perspective. The car has just come out and is hard to get. People aren't waiting for a 3er at all, but are waiting for a 1er. It's limited production it's first year.

The 3er WAS the entry model and became the biggest seller with a sedan, a coupe, convertible, and an M3.

So far, the 1er has only a coupe and 'vert.. Hatchback and sedan could come, as well as tii.

When the Bangled look first came out, people were horrified, as it was so ugly, according to to those naysayers. It caught on and even impacted the entire industry.

The 1er is shaking things up and is untouchable currently.

The 1er will eventually have an expanded model lineup and will be a dominant model. Such talk of minority and majority is fairly irrelevant, and will become even more irrelevant over time as the models evolve, availability changes, and lease incentives shift from the 3er to include the 1er.

Like it or not, the 3er is no longer BMW's exclusive little darling, and that's a tough hit for 3er fans. The newborn always makes the older siblings jealous, especially when the newborn is getting all the attention. And, with very few exceptions, the 135i has received some of the best media and auto reviews in history.

"Year One of The 1"... This is the tip of the iceberg!!

TM

hpowders · June 2008

The 3 Series remains unchallenged! :shades:

It offers most of what you get performance-wise with the 1 but in a roomier, easier on the eyes package. It is still not too late to exchange that 135i for a beautiful, incomparable 335i coupe in red or black.

Car and Driver gave the "lowly" 328i sedan an unprecedented "25" out of 25 possible points in "fun to drive" in a "Best Sports Sedan" comparo where it absolutely crushed the competition earning a total of 227 out of 250 points. (January 2008 issue)

If the 328i sedan blows the competition away, then the 335i coupe has to be a no-brainer.

Why go for a cheaper version of the real deal?

The BMW 3 Series has made the Car and Driver "10 Best" cars list for the past 16 consecutive years, which is unmatched by any other vehicle.

Attempting to talk down the BMW 3 Series is a futile effort at best and makes one look ridiculous.

The BMW 3 Series is one of the most distinguished and well-respected vehicles in automotive history.

Viva el 328i!

Viva el 335i!

Viva el rum cake!

It's not too late! Repent! Get the 335i coupe!!!

jlbl · June 2008

Viva La rum cake!

Howard, I am sorry of my having to correct you: ¡Viva el rum cake!

¡Viva!

But of course you can say it as you wish, my friend!

No faltaría más.

Regards,
Jose
PS: 'el' cake, 'el' rum, 'el' wine, 'el' whisky, 'el' brandy, 'el' bourbon, but 'la' gin. Why? That belongs to life misteries. :surprise:

hpowders · June 2008

Heh! Heh! Correction made! Since my wife (la Jefe) makes the cake, I carried the "la" along as a sign of respect!

Always good to joust with my friend TM! Of course, anybody who owns a BMW of any model is a very fortunate person. I will publicly apologize to TM if the January 2009 issue of Car and Driver comes out with its "10 Best" cars list and the 1 Series makes it and the 3 Series doesn't.

La vida es sueno, Jose! Enjoy it while you can! ( I wish I had a Spanish language type-writer).

tagman · June 2008

What sayeth thou???

No co-existence of the 1 and the 3???

Shameful! Apology must come now, not later.

TM

blueguydotcom · June 2008

If the 328i sedan blows the competition away, then the 335i coupe has to be a no-brainer.

For you perhaps. To me, the 3 series coupe is too big and ugly. Not just so-so looking but really on the level of the Solara and 6 series ugly. I owned an e9x car - they're boring to drive at any speed.

To each his own

hpowders · June 2008

Co-existence is fine. I just don't like to see the 3 Series denigrated just because the 1 Series may be slightly more agile, faster and cheaper.The 335i in any guise is still a very satisfying drive. Same boring interior though, in both Series that I've been staring at seemingly for a lifetime, though it has "only" been 15 years. (Almost the same in the 545i, just a bit more wood, that the wife swears is plastic, and in so declaring, is a constant irritant to me).

It will be interesting to see C&D's 10 best cars solution to the BMW problem in their January 2009 issue: Both the 3 and the 1? Just the 1? Just the 3? I have a feeling they will choose both.

hpowders · June 2008

I guess you canceled your C&D subscription. They have yet to encounter a BMW car they haven't loved; pretty much why I extended my subscription out to 5 years!

circlew · June 2008

I felt the same way but after 2 test drives, I can loose the 3'er weight with pleasure...I just feel sorry for anyone that tags along in the rer seats. Since 99% on my own, tough it out!

Regards,
OW

nyccarguy · June 2008

Personally the only 3 series coupe that I like (we're talking asthetics here) is the 335i with Sports Package. Configured the way I'd order it (granted I'm somewhat of a minimalist) with Sports Package, Heated Seats, SIRIUS, BMW Assist, Leatherette, 6-Speed Manual, & Crimson Red Paint has an MSRP of $45,070. A 135i Coupe built the same way costs $38,670 ($6,400 less). If you're going to argue the 3 series is better looking and has more interior room than the 1 series, then a 328i Coupe with the same options has an MSRP of $39,370 ($700 more than the 135i). The 300 hp/300 lb-ft of torque twin turbocharged engine along with the slight weight reduction are worth more to me and it's a screaming bargain compared to the 328i Coupe.

On the topic of convertibles. I don't like the look of the 3 series convertibles at all with the top up. The creases in the roof take away from the coupe's smooth roofline. I think the 1er with its fabric top is better looking.

Happy Father's Day Everyone!

hpowders · June 2008

I have driven 3 Series vehicles since 1993 and they have grown progressively heavier, but they still are quite fun to drive. It's usually just my wife and me, so lack of rear seat room doesn't concern me either. I do need a decent sized trunk though for frequent missions to the airport.

hpowders · June 2008

Keep in mind that for the 135i, you will pay full MSRP. There is room, however to bargain on a 335i Coupe, probably a bit more so now, thanks to the popularity of the 135i Coupe stealing away some 335i sales.

bodble2 · June 2008

"The majority in America also likes McDonald's..."

Oh God, hope not! Have you noticed people that eat at McDonald's look either poor, or stupid?

tagman · June 2008

McDonalds has nothing to do with the BMW cars. Nor does the majority of American's behavior... which can be strange at times, especially from international perspectives

The 1er is in demand and has been well-received by the world's auto enthusiasts and critics... with the usual few exceptions, it is a major winner.

The 3-Series is practically legendary... so it gets all the respect it has earned... Even if it has grown more than some would like. And the 1-Series is a terrific sibling that should do very well... heck, people are waiting months to pay full price for one!

So, let's stay on track here and avoid what is absurdly irrelevant.

TM

blueguydotcom · June 2008

What's irrelevant is the 3 series. The constant harping on it in a forum dedicated to the 1 series can only be termed tiresome. People spamming the 1 forum regarding the 3 are no different than someone clicking into a G35 forum and extolling the M35. Different cars with different markets in mind.

circlew · June 2008

Yes, forget the 3 in here. Let's talk about the tii....that's more interesting. When can we expect it to arrive in the U.S.?

Regards,
OW

bodble2 · June 2008

I wasn't the one who made the analogy with Mcdonald, so direct your venom in the proper direction. :mad:

hpowders · June 2008

"Direct your venom"

Take it from whence it came. You and I both know we are right. They're starting to throw tantrums, which means we struck a raw nerve, the nerve of truth.

If this is a BMW 1 Series thread, we have every right to compare it to the BMW 3 Series. It is an important, relevant subject.

Why, I do declare, on other car threads within Edmunds, they are talking about restaurants, soccer, wines, HDTV and where they are vacationing at the moment. I get squeamish just thinking about it! :sick:

Carry on, bodble2! I enjoy reading your stimulating posts!

bodble2 · June 2008

LOL....yes, the truth hurts!

Every review that I have read, or watched has praised the performance of the 1 BUT has questioned its styling, AND it's price-point in relation to the 3, so it is baffling that some members here seem to think that any reference to the 3, in particular in regard to price and styling, is "irrelevant". I don't think there is a more direct, natural and relevant comparison to the 1, than the 3.

bodble2 · June 2008

"...on other car threads within Edmunds, they are talking about restaurants, soccer, wines, HDTV and where they are vacationing at the moment."

LOL. On some threads, and dare I say even some BMW threads, the discussions and exchanges between some members almost border on online dating!

blueguydotcom · June 2008

Start a 1 v. 3 thread then. Really it's coming down to people who embrace one philosophy over another, so it's little more than filler on this forum.

circlew · June 2008

Try driving one compared to the 3. The 135 is a few notches up. Period.

As for the style, you either like it or not. There is a new category that no luxo performance mfg can fill at this time and the 135 has it...that is why the premium price until others catch up.

I wish my test drive was without the 145 lb. babe saleslady for less weight!

Regards,
OW

hpowders · June 2008

Agree totally!

BMW 1-Series

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