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BMW 1-Series

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Saab 9-2x might even have the interior to really make that list. Aero model only, though.

    But for $25k you're mostly stuck with wrong-wheel drive.

    -juice
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    It is still all-wheel though, right? For space utility, I'd guess it would need to be a four door hatch, at least.. So, that would knock out the Mercedes, but I hadn't thought of that one. Rear wheel drive is really rare in the lower price range.

    Wait!! Toyota Tacoma with a cap!! Oops, handling and ride.. never mind..LOL

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    LOL

    Yeah, 9-2x will be AWD.

    I refer to FWD as "wrong wheel drive" because I personally don't care much for it.

    There aren't really any RWD-for-a-bugdet sporty cars. The Nissan 240SX is gone.

    I guess some might include the Mustang, but the new one still doesn't even get an indy rear until you get to the Cobra, which again is pricey.

    There will be an A3 quattro soon.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oh, forgot Miata, which I own (duh). But a roadster is a roadster and they're not practical for everyone.

    It's my 2nd car.

    -juice
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    The international BMW site now has more detailed info on the 1-Series.
  • bretaabretaa Member Posts: 130
    Well, here goes (full disclosure: I own a '01 330I):

    - Exterior: I like it a lot. It's easily the most successful of the new age BMW's and recaptures that BMW sense of "speeding while standing still," a sporty focus that the 7 and 5 series lack for me but is a hallmark of the current 3-series. It's really, REALLY too bad the 4 door hatch isn't coming here, as it was my long term plan for a daily driver to own one day in future (would make a great CPO vehicle). Will Canada get them? Do Americans really want 2-door 2-series sedans more than 4 door sport hatches? Does Mazda know something else here everyone else doesn't?

    - Interior: I like the overall design theme greatly, as the Z4-esque "intense ergonomics" of the tight gauge binnacle and narrow console seem to be the opposite of the way some makers (like Audi, for example) are going. I love the chrome shifter and start button as well. The plastic quality looks somewhat X3-iffy and there is, of course, I-drive there. I wonder if by American standards this car would feel really, really small, maybe even "feel" smaller than a Focus (with its high roof and set back dash).

    - Mechanics: The power, for a car of its size, seems quite good actually. Has anyone seen estimated performance numbers?

    - Price: The wild card here, with the Euro and all. I can see Americans paying $22,000 for a loaded Mazda 3 sport hatch (which is nearly identical to this car in mission and focus), but would Americans pay near 30K? Interesting question... It appears that BMW doesn't want to even go there, unfortunately...

    - Bret
  • tpat3tpat3 Member Posts: 119
    Should qualify all of this by saying the newsletter does not make clear whether this is the car bound for the US. From the use of terms like "petrol" and "bonnet" seems it is not US spec. Only model shown is five door hatch.

    Two 4 cyl. engines: double-Vanos with Valvetronic has 150 bhp, lesser version on the 116i (no Valvetronic?) has 115bhp.

    Transmission: 5 speed on 116i, 6 speed on higher output version.

    It's a pain in the neck to sift through the naviation on the newsletter site and it's vague anyway, but some other details are aluminum front axle, multi link rear, dynamic stability control, electronic brake force, xenon headlights, 1100 litre cargo room (30 or so ft.) with seats folded. Looks like Idrive with nav is an option.

    No pricing and no dates.

    Those are the highlights. I had to list my home address when I registered, so I don't know why I'd be getting the Euro specs.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ... as has been well-documented by now, we probably won't be getting the 5-hatch, nor ANY of the engines listed. The English version of the online newsletter is clearly aimed at the UK/SA/Australia/NZ markets. This is Munich talking, not New Jersey [or wherever BMWUSA is hanging out these days].

    I still think it is just plain silly for the NA market to miss this car - why there is a perceived audience for the Mini, the upcoming A3, the Golf [which can reach into the low 20's], but not this car, is beyond me. All this hoo-hah about our market "rejecting" hatchbacks is so much baloney - if the alleged "failure" of the 318ti is the issue [and I don't concede it was a failure at all], then analyze its shortcomings - the hatchback body was hardly the issue - it needed more power, and looked a bit odd to some eyes because of the "chopped" feel of the body - but the fact that it was a hatch instead of a sedan sounds ludicrous as the reason this car didn't sell well. Whatever...
  • harlequin1971harlequin1971 Member Posts: 278
    had launched the X5 in 1994, it would have flopped too, most likely.

    The Porsche Cayenne needed a sophisticated SUV market to be appreciated, and it has surpassed all other Porsche sales...

    The hatch is seeing a minor revival, but BMW is in the once bitten, twice shy mode right now. They have a lot of unresolved issues...like can they bring the US enough power to satisfy our hungers and still keep the price low enough to get out away from safer choices like SUVs, coupes and sedans?

    Will the US adopt a sporty sedan that is smallish, like we did the Acura TSX? (aka Honda Accord made for the rest of the world)

    Maybe what BMW needs to do is release it in the US as a Mini...it would fire off the charts then, and at a premium price!

    Toyota/Lexus did it to us with the IS300...why not BMW doing it to us with the 1-series...

    What would they call it then?

    The Mini...

    This would have been a better US strategy, IMO. Too bad the calls were made years ago when the car went into development, and the success of Mini in the US was a marketing plan in the making, not a reality.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Lux brands in the US have a hard time passing luxury off when the vehicle lacks a trunk. It's a fact whether you like it or not.

    Ask MB how well they're doing with that miserable C coupe. About as well as BMW did with the ti.

    If there were a market for hatches, we'd see them everywhere. The fact is hatches have becomes pretty rare. Acura has one. Toyota's got one and another on the way. Nissan has one. Mitsu one.

    Any lux brands beyond BMW? Maybe you could call the lambo and modena hatches?
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    They don't have to bring the hatch to the US. There are other body styles.
    The wagon looks good and 2 or 4 door models would probably look good also.
    I'd get the wagon if it had enough power and a usable back seat.
    I would have to see and drive one to know if it would meet my needs.
  • harlequin1971harlequin1971 Member Posts: 278
    guess it is so...the Mini is too small to sell here, right? Americans won't buy hatches, right?

    Heck, about 20 years ago, not a single manufacturer was in a hurry to build a new SUV for the market...now everyone of them has one, wants one, or is busy making more of them.

    fads, fashion, and reality all play roles in things. As gas gets more expensive and we get more and more congested in our big cities, it is only a reality that hatches will grow in popularity...I like them, always have, though I must be strange for that reason...

    I don't think a car needs a trunk to be consider luxurious...besides, hatches are tons more useful than a sedan of the same size...the Matrix, Vibe, and Mazda hatches are all doing just fine.
  • harlequin1971harlequin1971 Member Posts: 278
    did look a bit ugly though...so no big loss here.

    The C230 is sharp...I see one around my parts almost everyday...I like that little bugger.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    While Mini is popular, actual sales numbers are tiny. Hardly a blip in the big picture.

    Ford produced more green F150s on Thursdays than Mini does all year.

    -juice
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    guess it is so...the Mini is too small to sell here, right? Americans won't buy hatches, right?

    The Mini is not a luxury car. It's a sporty unreliable econobox.

    Heck, about 20 years ago, not a single manufacturer was in a hurry to build a new SUV for the market...now everyone of them has one, wants one, or is busy making more of them.

    SUVs were popular 20 years ago. Hatches were too. One fell out of favor.

    As gas gets more expensive and we get more and more congested in our big cities, it is only a reality that hatches will grow in popularity...I like them, always have, though I must be strange for that reason...

    To each his own. Hatch to me signals cars from the likes of Toyota, Honda, GM.

    I don't think a car needs a trunk to be consider luxurious...besides, hatches are tons more useful than a sedan of the same size...the Matrix, Vibe, and Mazda hatches are all doing just fine.

    Again you bring up cruddy econoboxes. Great Ford sells oodles of Focus variants, guess every manufacturer should move to producing substandard egg-shaped, recall-hungry little FWDers.

    A hatch offers a sizable upside in space. I don't buy my cars for space in the trunk or for storage space. You know what's in the back of my BMW? A cargo net. The back of my Protege? A window wiper. That's it. Two cars, neither trunk has anything in them. Why the heck would I need 10 more cubic space? I don't.

    We're all different and for some of us trunk space has zero bearing on the purchase of a vehicle. I bought both my cars because they were fun to drive.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    e C230 is sharp...I see one around my parts almost everyday...I like that little bugger.

    You can buy them for a song. Go for it.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    It's a sporty unreliable econobox

    just where do you get this information? The MINI problems board here on Edmunds has a whopping 110 posts in almost 2 years of existence. And nowhere near all of those posts are problems.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Small sample of owners at Edmunds, no wonder there are few posts.

    It might (just maybe) be more significant to compare the # of posts in complaints to the # of posts in the regular threads.

    Even then, no. People come to the Subaru Problems threads to find out why their lights are on, but dim (it's the parking light switch on the top of the steering wheel). 5 posts later that wasn't really a problem.

    -juice
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    just where do you get this information? The MINI problems board here on Edmunds has a whopping 110 posts in almost 2 years of existence. And nowhere near all of those posts are problems.


    There is only one vehicle made that is more trouble prone than the mini: the H2. The Mini had the dubious distinction of being the most trouble-prone car sold last year. It beat out Korean makes.
    Check JD Power. The Mini is a rolling piece of garbage. Cute and fun but still a very poorly made car.

    "On May 6, the highly regarded J.D. Power & Associates survey of initial quality ranked the Mini 25th of 28 brands, with 166 consumer complaints per 100 vehicles sold, compared with an industry average of 133 complaints."

    http://ad-rag.com/104350.php
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, for a cup holder. Gimme a break.

    The H2 is unreliable because it's inefficient with fuel. Gimme break #2.

    That source isn't really that credible, if you ask me.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    PS Bet the Mini does very well in their APEAL study. Which matters more to you? That you like driving it, or the cup holders?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    i'm not even sure what the heck that means. I could give a dozen complaints about my car, but that doesn't mean its an unreliable piece of junk. As a matter of fact, its the best car I've ever owned!

    and juice, you're right about the number of posts. But I do watch the MINI boards here and there are many more posts on the general MINI board (about 1800 now) and I just don't see that many complaints. I actually see alot more on the new TL board and JD powers and Consumer Reports and any other one of those types of surveys consistently place HOnda and Acura very favorably. So what does that tell you? Yup, you guessed it, absolutely nothing. ;)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Say what you will I've heard from mini owners who had problems with trim falling off, trannies breaking, superchargers not working.

    Personally, I think the cupholder thing is spin generated by BMW, who happens to also have lousy (average is lousy) reliability/workmanship.

    To each his own.

    PS Bet the Mini does very well in their APEAL study. Which matters more to you? That you like driving it, or the cup holders?

    Appeal is not a good indicator of anything beyond the fact many people want something. VW was high on the appeal list for a long time. BMW still is. Doesn't mean either are good makes.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    absolutely nothing

    LOL

    It wasn't BMW's spin about the cup holders, that fact was mentioned in a couple of different articles. Presumably the information came from JDP's own press releases.

    So let's see, you'd rather have a completely lousy, bore-you-to-death car that was perfectly reliable, vs. a passionate/fun car that might have a nit-pick or two?

    To each his/her own. It's nice to have choices.

    -juice
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    After living through VW, there's no way I'll own a car that's well known for having many problems. Mix German engineering with English build quality and the result can only be a disaster.

    I do not for a second believe you can't build a solid car that's fun. The Miata is a great example.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    the rental Mini CVT we sampled from Beverly Hills already had both front seats broken in different places -- seat height for the driver & rear access fold for the passenger side.

    BMW is already switching its seat supplier for the upcoming face-lifted version w/o the Chrysler engine built in Brazil.

    I know it's still the resale champ due to production shortage.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=45234
    "...the steering has a meaty feel, with direct responses to inputs...Both cars suffered ride vibration on fine surface ripples - the type you find in Britain where frost pits the road. This may be to do with the 17-inch rubber on our test models (16-inch will be standard in the UK), or the the fact that they were run-flat tyres, as there's no space for a spare wheel."
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Hey good post! 2750 lbs...sweet. A turbo 2.2 would be nice with over 220 HP. Heck, my current 3 weighs 500 lbs more so that'd be a marked improvement.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ah, an owner scorned. Never again, now I understand...

    I own a Miata, BTW. :o)

    Let's be fair, though, rentals get beat up pretty bad.

    The CS1 concept looked better, so maybe the coupe/sedan/convertibles will be better styled.

    -juice
  • harlequin1971harlequin1971 Member Posts: 278
    ...looked awesome and had me inspired. The hatch has me thinking of looking elsewhere.

    From a style-only perspective, the MB Hatch is 10X better looking than the BMW in my books...and I here they are giving them away. :)
  • sunilbsunilb Member Posts: 407
    The latest Automobile magazine had a feature on the new 1/2 series and indicated that it looks like only a 2-series will make it's way to the states... and they stated that they thought it would be a higher-end 2 (e.g., M2) to evoke the spirit of the original 2002 (driver-oriented car).

    The pictures they had looked decent enough (not Bangelized, but not incredibly great-looking).. they great part were the specs-- a car lighter and tighter than the E46, with 250-300hp!

    I hope they are close to being right on this.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...the article did not imply that the M2 would be the exclusive model imported. What it said was that the 2er in all its forms [coupe, convertible, M2] would be the way that the smaller chassis gets used in the NA market.

    On one level, I'm fine with that [I bought one of the original 1600-2s imported to the West Coast in 1967]; on another, I still think they are missing a bet by not importing the 5-door 1er. No one from BMWNA asked me, of course...
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    the hatch isn't exactly what I would prefer, (I'd prefer the wagon or the sedan) but as a BMW, it should do fine.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    I hope it's available w/o the sport suspension like the '94 318is notchback coupe.

    You're not gonna believe how much Performance Car(now merged w/ CAR) loved the E36 even w/o sport suspension when compared to the Mercedes C-class sport. This soft-riding Beemer still oversteers/understeers intuitively, albeit the steering ratio was a little slow. I think I only need to add the LSD &, when driving on unfamiliar or slick roads, the DSC.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    that bottom pic makes the car look like a modern version of the Audi Quattro Coupe (just shorter).

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • sunilbsunilb Member Posts: 407
    I'm digging that coupe... looks light yet stout and hunkered down.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Under the new naming structure will that be the 2-Series??

    Looks a lot better than the 5-door hatch. Put a small I6 (190hp) in it and it should do pretty well.

    M
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    There won't be a new naming structure. BMW's backing off on that loopy idea as they're not going to can the M3 and make an M4. There's too much history with the M3 name to drop it for useless new naming. Ask Acura about that...

    Latest stuff points to 1 series as the name for all the smaller than 3 series cars. The i, cic and ci already differentiate among the car types.
  • harlequin1971harlequin1971 Member Posts: 278
    then they are all over the map...Volvo is doing the same kind of thing...one number for the sedan, another for the wagon...

    IIRC, the Z3 turned into the Z4 to prepare for the upcoming renaming.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Z4 is an attempt by BMW to get away from the bad reputation and girlie view most enthusiasts had of the Z3.

    Shocked BMW isn't renaming its two seat mini convertible for the same reason.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Is BMW going to put in a light pressure turbo in the 1-Series to bring horsepower count to around 155?
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Talk on other boards, the M1 will even get a 300 hp inline 6.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    They have officially stated this already? If so good.

    M
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    good. I hope that they offer a six cylinder engine or high winding four cylinder engine in the range of 175-225 horsepower.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Give me the wagon. The rest, (for my personal tastes) need not apply, but that wagon looks very tough indeed...
  • raychuang00raychuang00 Member Posts: 541
    But the 2-Series based on a slightly lengthened 1-Series chassis will definitely make it to the US market.

    My guess is that we'll see a 2.0-liter I-4 engine rated at 145 bhp (220i) and a 2.5-liter I-6 engine rated at 175 bhp (225i) for the US models, with a future M2 version using a 3.0-liter I-6 engine rated at 225 bhp down the line. The 220i and 225i will use either the 5-speed automatic or 6-speeed manual, and the M2 will use a close-ratio six-speed manual or an optional SMG clutchless manual.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Actually over at Autoweek and on BMW forums many are talking up an M 1 or 2 series with more like 300 ponies.

    Also, BMW's very leery of using NA 4 cylinder cars in the usa as they're simply not in keeping with the way Americans view luxury brands. i wouldn't expect anything smaller than a 2.5 inline 6 in the base 23-24k 1/2 series. Then the 3 and then probably the 3.2 for the M.

    Some reports even mention a 3.5 for the next gen 3. hopefully that's wrong.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Give me the hatch and the wagon. The sedan looks a bit on the small side, and the hatch and wagon are bound to be more versatile than the sedan. Does anybody have an approximate price range for the 1-Series hatchback or wagon?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually, making it very powerful and fast would make people overlook the dorky styling, that might be a good strategy.

    The BMW 2002tii is not beautiful, but it's become a cult car for its performance/value.

    -juice
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