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BMW X3

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Comments

  • bargamon1bargamon1 Member Posts: 110
    Thanks for the honesty. I'd buy the allroad but I don't want a twin turbo car after 50k! Darn I love this car though! THe audi has been a rock!

    Audi interior is addictive! But Im afraid of missing the manual! S4 Avant? Interior still nicer than X3, but not much back seat! And price does matter! Im along the lines you were when you were shopping. A4 3.2 might do the trick.

    The 255 engine might come with a slight interior upgrade? Its not even the textured dash, just the lack of some trim appearences that make it somewhat spartan. Not too far off the mark though!

    There are worse things to ponder over. I am very impressed with the X-3!
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    OK, if money didn't matter what would your ideal car be? And, why do you like the X3 more than an X5?
    I can't think of a car that I would want more than an X3. I would like every option available and i wouldn't mind two of them, an automatic and stick. Personally, I don't like the size or looks of the X5.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    If I dood it I get a whippin', I dood it anyway. . . .

    The X3 vs the X5 (beyond the tax implications that apply at this point still this year) is a non-starter unless you are looking at the X5 V8.

    But, for the money, for the space, the handling, the luxury, etc., the X3 is the "little engine that could," so to speak.

    IMHO, comparing a $47K X3 and a like priced X5, the X3 is more, more, more of everthing. It is the updated version of the X5 in styling and performance.

    Now, please note I am comparing the X3 3.0 and the X5 3.0 and factoring in what can be had for the "money factor."

    I do not think the X5 is in any way not a great vehicle. The X3 is in some ways more upscale, more of a "hauler" and not quite as lux.

    But again, think of it in terms of $47K -- the X3 at that price point performs better and has more content.

    The X5, to me, seems somewhat more luxurious and more refined. The 6spd manual transmission equipped X3 with upscale everything is hardly a "ruffian."

    With the money is no object as a "mode," I would go with a no holds barred Cayenne, the X5 and then the X3.

    In the world in which most of us live, the X3 is just more than the X5 at a comparable price point.

    However, please note there are some tax advantages that the X5 has over the X3 that may make it cheaper.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    If they can graft the front end of the X5 to an X3 rear, then they'd have a winner, IMO. I generally love the looks of the X5 - masculine, purposeful, although the back end looks a tad clumsy. Still, if the X5 were in the middle of its life cycle, rather than at the end, I would seriously pinch my pennies for one.
  • bargamon1bargamon1 Member Posts: 110
    ONly plus is the interior appointment of the x-5. Closer to replacement, the better the deals. Especially left over when they make the change. 4.4 might be very attractively priced.

    The boot space is very small in the X5! It looks top heavy in its styling . X3 seems the proper dimension and looks right!

    Im weird, I want wood or Alum trim on the dash to break it up. The HVAC seems small and not much to look at. Overall appearence is not as upscale as I would like. My problem is I am looking at a fully loaded version with all boxes checked so price goes up to about 47k. Is this interior thing important? Not really, but its a step down from my Audi. SOunds like I should just keep the AUdi, but I like to change up and like to at least move on up a bit. A4 is not a move up either! X5 3.0 manual seems silly as the performance is just not there.

    The best value seem to take one off the lot and get the best lease possible. Be nice to get off the lot for under $500 per month. Might not be everyting I would want, but I'll feel good about it. Trying to option it up to something its not might not be the way either.

    Just random thoughts. I appreciate the dialong.

    Third options is buy 5year old small volvo wagon ($10,000) and drive it for 8 months and give it to my son when he is 16. he can learn to drive on it and with no lease payments I can just pocket the what I was paying on a lease which would in turn about pay for half his car. Also he don't have to learn on what would be my sweet new ride.

    By then perhaps the world will change and I can continue to shop on a position of strength.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    Re: Volvos: We had a 1994 Volvo and even 3 dealers couldn't fix it. More repairs than any car I have ever had. I get the feeling that since Ford took it over it is really a Taurus in disguise. Daughters 1999 has had over $4,000 in transmission repairs and the dealer couldn't fix it either...actually had to go back to the manufacturer to be diagnosed. And, we loved our 80's Volvos, but never again.
    I think the X3 looks a lot better than the X5. The interior could be a little more glamourous but it is very functional, and I think it is a design you don't get tired of like the phony wood and chrome Caddies etc.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "I think the X3 looks a lot better than the X5."

    Except for the front end. More precisely the bumper, lights, grille, and leading edge of the hood. The one-piece design for the hood/grille on the X5 looks great, IMHO. :)
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    We went to the dealer when the X3 sale prices were being advertised. We incorrectly believed the lease deals were for in stock vehicles and configured two or three versions of the X3 that we thought we could live with.

    We wanted: 3.0, manual, sat nav, Sirius, upgraded sound system, Premium and sport -- AND we wanted teracotta leather seats.

    We could not get the combination we wanted.

    The dealer said, "no problem, we can order the exact car you want and keep the price per month on the lease as we agree upon." "Delivery time is less than 8 weeks."

    We agreed upon a car that would be at full MSRP just south of $47K -- no upfronts, first month and a sec dep. Mo pay = $581 @ 36 mo and 15K miles.

    Nothing, at that moment, from Audi, BMW, Infiniti, Mercededs or Volvo came close.

    Once again, we ordered the car we wanted -- now at some 28 cars ordered, we wonder what the fuss is about inventory.

    After all, they never have what you want, you always have to take something less than what you want if you buy off the lot.

    On the other hand, I know that the days of ordering your new Porsche and waiting up to 9 months (or longer) for the dealer's allocation soured many on the idea of ordering.

    Odd, how people will buy $50K cars that are "almost" what they wanted.

    At least with BMW (and Audi from my recent experince), you can get the car you want in about 2 months.

    Immediate gratification may be nice -- but at this price point, why settle for "almost" what you want?

    Regrets -- we should have ordered the privacy glass, we should have insisted on the home link transmitter -- but these ARE minor.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    People are different..

    I went to the same dealer last month.... They had exactly one example of the model I was looking for (an '05)... and, I bought it!!

    Regrets? I wish I had more money... ;)

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  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Me too -- and if they had the exact car we wanted, we would have taken it off the lot.

    My Audi dealer, even when I offered two color combinations couldn't comply either.

    I certainly don't go in with the intention that I will have to order, but that is how it always seems to pan out.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Oh.. it wasn't the exact one that I wanted... but, you can't order an '05, and get the killer lease deals...

    I agree though.... to get our '03 325i, I had to look for a slightly used one, or order a new one... They almost never have the combo you want in stock..

    I think I have a stronger negotiating position when I buy a car off the lot, though...

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I wondered about that -- but the dealer in late March 2005 when we were buyting the BMW said "the deal is the deal" at the MSRP the lease payment is "X" on an in stock X3 or an ordered one.

    We even changed the order within 5 days of the original configuration by adding Servotronic, and since the car was not yet on the line, the change was accepted (but I had to give them the $250 CASH.)

    Ever larger inventories at our favorite Greater Cincinnati BMW dealer have not worked for us, thus far.

    Ditto the Audi store, the Infiniti store and even the Chrysler store -- at every one of these dealers we were in an "order" or "settle" choice.

    Since we were in no real hurry, we were "ripe" to order exactly what we wanted.

    Of course, we didn't realize that a $47K BMW did not have homelink or power folding mirrors -- so add those to our order, next time, along with privacy glass.

    Overall, we've not really missed the automatic built in garage door opener, but it seems like such an odd oversight at this price point (and shame on us for assuming it would be standard with the Premium package.)

    We love our BMW, but based on MSRP they are really under-contented. Yet, the lease deals are soooo attractive you can crank a BMW up above $50K and still have a monthly payment that feels more like you are leasing a Chrysler 300C which is many thousands less.
  • bargamon1bargamon1 Member Posts: 110
    Appreciate the heads up. I have a real nice Audi connection, a client of mine is the used car manager at a very large dealer. But none such at BMW. I will take do the fax thing with about 5 dealers in the state when the time comes and offer them the deal. Money facters are higher now, but I am assuming the x-3 is not the red hot offering flying out the door unless the pricing incentives are there.

    The X3 may be the perfect vehicle for me!

    I am hoping the Audi Q7 takes much demand out from the A6 avent and make my choice harder!

    THe Volvo is already in the family (sister)and has 34k on it. I have a private master mechanic whom worked on my mercedes for 10 years and does volvos also. The history on this car is very clean.

    My son though wants a manual like his pop! I think a Honda element or a Diesel Jetta wagon (all used mind you) would suffice best. Front or awd, good fuel econmy and good track record. I gotta bone upon the jettas though.

    He is a musicion and Ice hockey player. Will need lots of usable space. The jetta gets great fuel milage and is not very very quick.

    A high milage pleather base bones 2.5 X3 might be a good choice but I ain't going there!
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    If you're watching...Congrats on your new (used) X3! WHat options does your X3 have on it? Did you get rid of your wife's 5er or your Wrangler? I'm very eager to hear your impressions of the X3!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    We really weren't planning to buy anything, but here we are...
    It seems our dealer was offering past customers a $50 gift certificate for BMW accessories if you test drove a new E90, so we stopped by a couple of weeks ago. While we were there, my wife jokingly asked our salesman if they were going to get any CPO X3s. It turned out that they were getting one the next day- a Flamenco Red 2004 2.5 with 16K. Options were Steptronic, PP, CWP, heated wheel, leather, privacy glass, xenons, and satellite radio prep, with a BMW CPO warranty until July 2010. We decided to give it a hard look if we could sell our 5er. My indie BMW shop found a buyer-check the "Real World Trade-In Values" thread for the details-and all of a sudden we were in the market for a new vehicle. My wife wanted an AWD or 4X4 with decent ground clearance so that she could make it out our half mile gravel driveway in the winter. The only other vehicle we seriously considered was the Nissan Xterra Off Road(we also took a brief look at the Forester XT, but neither of us eat granola or wear Birkenstocks). We both really liked the Nissan, but finally decided it would serve better as a replacement for the TJ Wrangler in a year or so.
    As for the X3, I'm very pleased with it and my wife loves it. Despite its two ton curb weight the X feels much lighter and more nimble than the 5er. Acceleration isn't anything to write home about, but it's OK. The ride is taut but not uncomfortable. As I won't be tracking the X, I don't really miss the Sport Package. Besides, if I want to carve up a road course or twisting two lane I'll take the Club Sport or Speed Triple. Some people find the X3 interior to be plain and/or somber, but I prefer its no-nonsense Teutonic functionality; it sort of reminds me of my Bavaria and E24 M6. I'm not very critical about car audio anymore, so the lack of premium sound doesn't bother me. In any case, it sounds much better than the DSP system that was fitted to the 528i. It would be nice to have the Valvetronic 3.0, but the money I saved buying this car can be applied to the M1 acquisition fund-or maybe to a new M Coupe(that matte silver prototype at Frankfurt is very alluring).
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    ring. . .

    me: "hello?"

    my wife: "have I told you how much I love my X3?"

    me: "not for 15 minutes. . . ."

    my wife: "now I know what you mean about the way you felt when you drove my TT for a couple of months -- when you said you felt like you were a bug on the highway. . . this BMW X3's is sooooooo confidence inspiring."

    me: "yea yea, I heard you the 37th time, 16 minutes ago. . ."

    my wife: "I want you to order a new X3 for me. . . ."

    me: "what, you have 28 months to go on your lease. . ."

    my wife: "oh, I know, I don't mean I want you to order one to immediately replace my 2005 X3, I just want you to make sure that we have the timing down so that I can get my 2008 X3 when the time comes."

    me: "good grief!"

    my wife: "this car is so great in snow, too -- I'm king, er, queen of the road!"

    me: "good bye, dear."

    :shades:
  • dinsmoordinsmoor Member Posts: 1
    Be careful. The X3 has had more problems than our Volvo XC90. At least Volvo accepts they have problems and inform the dealer on what to do to fix them. BMW continues to be slow on the information the dealer receives on common problems. Overall very disappointed by a +$40 machine. Even GM does better than BMW in this price range.....Back to Honda and Toyota I guess.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Hmmmm...
    A "BMWstinksI'mgoingtobuyaHondayota" post.
    Made by an individual who just signed up.
    Don't see those in the BMW topics very often.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    At 12,000 miles on a 2005 X3 3.0, this car ties for being the most trouble free car we have ever had -- and although I am certain many will discount the car it tied with, I'll tell you that car is an Audi.

    We have taken the X3 in to the dealer ONE time for an "issue" -- that is, after 6 months and winter coming on, we decided we wanted all new wiper blades. They were replaced, the car vacuumed and washed.

    While we were in for this, we were offered a loaner car for pity's sake, free Starbuck's coffee and what appeared to be fresh, home made choc chip cookies.

    In 12,000 miles, we have added 1/2 quart of oil since when checking the dip stick we noted the oil was down to the lower part of "normal" range. We asked the dealer about this and he told us to use Castrol Super Syn 0W-30 and only to use the pint.

    Oh yea, once, while we were at Costco, we had all four tires checked and we added a pound of pressure all around. This was more a "while we're here," kind of thing, not due to any indication of need.

    If all cars at 12K miles needed this much attention there would be almost nothing to complain about.

    My only yellow flag is my own history -- I am from the school of thought that says even with modern oil, 10,000 miles between oil changes is enough.

    Hey, its a 36 month lease, they (BMW) certainly want to resell the car and if they think the car will be fine with that freq of oil changes, who am I?

    I cannot comment on the Honda, Toyota, Acura cars -- they may be better for all I know.

    The X3 has been terrific.

    I wish the dash board was of a finer grain -- of course that would only make it seem more lux than ours, so equipped with every BMW option imaginable (except auto trans) practically.

    This car @ $581/mo w/MSRP=$47K replaced a $43K Audi TT that was $709 per month, same deal.

    We get to keep that German driving experience, have room to haul stuff and a bargain to boot.

    Another corner heard from. :shades:
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    Re: BMWstinks....Excellent detective work, you should be on CSI. Our X3 has 12,000 miles (20,000 kms) without any problems.
    Offhand, I can't think of any other car I would choose over an X3. For a combination of the nicest design, best handling, huge amount of space, best ergonomics, safety features, gas mileage, and probably a great trade in value which is why your lease rates are so low...what could be better?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Thanks! fwiw, my wife's CPO looks and performs as new with 16K on the clock-and it cost considerably less than anything remotely comparable from Japan or the US. Yeah, we've really got buyer's remorse...
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    "can't think of any other car I would choose over an X3."

    Umm...check out the new RAV4 V6. Almost the same dimensions and capacity as the X3. The X3 will be hard pressed to match it's straight ahead performance even with the 255hp motor. Yes, it is a little short on lux features compared to the X, but likely not by that much, since the X is no lux-mobile either. But the mechanical bits appear to be in place. OK, the x-drive is no doubt superior to the front-drive bias system on the Toyota.
    But with the price difference....the Toyota is a pretty compelling option. So I'm thinking...reliability in exchange for some luxury, and you pocket the extra cash (which is enough to buy a Yaris for the son/daughter entering college). Not a bad deal. But of course, it is not a BMW, so if the snob appeal of the propeller badge and kidney grill is important... ;)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "straight ahead performance even with the 255hp motor."

    But there is a handling aspect to the X3 that will not be present in the Toyota. The X3 handles almost as well as a sedan.

    A Rav4 is not a stripper version of an X3. One could say it's a compelling argument if one forgoes the luxury and handling of an X3. Using the same thoughts, one could always get a loaded Sante Fe over the Rav4, pocket the money and take the family on a vacation to Hawaii.

    As far as reliability - it's a crap shoot either way.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    I doubt many X3 owners go to bed at night wondering if they should have bought a Rav4.
  • jrynnjrynn Member Posts: 162
    with the price difference....the Toyota is a pretty compelling option. ... But of course, it is not a BMW, so if the snob appeal of the propeller badge and kidney grill is important... ;)

    Until Toyota can match the BMW driving experience -- and not just "straight ahead" acceleration -- there will be people who choose BMWs rather than Toyotas despite the "price difference."

    You are awfully snide to suggest that it's solely a function of "the snob appeal of the propeller badge and kidney grill." That comment might more accurately describe why a buyer would choose a Lexus over a Toyota if you substituted "L" for "propeller badge and "Lexus grill" for "kidney grill."

    (And even then, Lexus buyers could reasonably argue that there are qualitative differences that make the ES better than the Camry, the RX better than the Highlander, the GX better than the 4Runner, and the LX better than the Land Cruiser.)
  • davidc1davidc1 Member Posts: 168
    I think the handling, braking and power is there for the new RAV4 Sport, in addition to the perceived reliability. But it's still missing the manual transmission.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I agree with the handling...but the trade-off may be a harsher ride for some folks.

    The Sante Fe analogy is not really valid because the mechanical pedigree of the Fe is nowhere near that of the new RAV.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Not with the old RAV. But some X3 2.5 owners may...with the new RAV.
  • bdr127bdr127 Member Posts: 950
    It's totally relevant.... There is a lot more to a car than dimensions and straight-line acceleration.

    If you've driven a BMW (ANY BMW), then you'd understand what the driving hype is all about. For those who have never driven, then you just see it as a big price premium.

    Driving any Toyota versus any BMW is like Night versus Day.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    Of course, almost any new car will get you from point A to point B. If you are buying from a practical standpoint just buy 3 or 4 Yaris in case one is in the garage being fixed.
    Personally, the status image has nothing to do with it, I could have bought almost any car I wanted (and I don't even like to be driving a status symbol). I chose the X3 because it has the most room, best looks, best performance, most safety features, and is the best car I have ever driven (and that includes a lot of rental cars).
    Nothing wrong with being practical, but, if you enjoy the ride and the experience is important go for the X3, you only live once.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    Oh...I get it. Nothing drives like a BMW. So it would be superfluous to compare a BMW to any model. Don't bother to cross-shop anything. Just go out and buy that Bimmer. And God forbid anyone with the nerves to suggest an alternative.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Oh...I get it. Nothing drives like a BMW"

    I don't understand why on one you you say it's superflous to compare a BMW to anything, on the other hand you say a Sante Fe is not in the same league as the new RAV4? Can't have it both ways.

    You can cross shop anything you want, and if one is looking for basic transportation I wouldn't get the X3 or the RAV4. Basic transportation is available in the range of $15K.

    I think you would have had more success if you said the FX35 is an alternative. The new RAV4 will be all Toyota, unfortunately.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Well said. Your sensible comments are appreciated. (I'm glad at least one BMW owner in here can respond intelligently) I actually feel the same way you do. I still may opt to pay the premium and go for an X3, but there are also other models that offer a strong alternative -- depending on your priorities.

    bodble2… nice to hear about your thirst for intelligent responses. But I remind you, below is how you lit the fuse around here—snob appeal and badge buying. It will always do the trick.

    But with the price difference....the Toyota is a pretty compelling option. So I'm thinking...reliability in exchange for some luxury, and you pocket the extra cash (which is enough to buy a Yaris for the son/daughter entering college). Not a bad deal. But of course, it is not a BMW, so if the snob appeal of the propeller badge and kidney grill is important...

    So when you respond sarcastically… Oh...I get it. Nothing drives like a BMW… I’m led to believe that if you do buy an X3 it will be for the badge. Too bad you would pay the premium and not understand what you are paying for. If this is the case, I would suggest getting the Rav4 and saving the money.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    kd, I was being sarcastic. I know you can (and should) cross-shop anything you want.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Yep, I read the CD article last week; I've been a subscriber since 1970. FWIW, I also subscribe to Automobile, Autoweek, R&T, and Thoroughbred & Classic Cars- not to mention Cycle World and Motorcycle Classics. I also pick up Car, Grassroots Motorsports, and Top Gear from time to time. As for the RAV4, it sounds like a competent vehicle-just not my cup of tea. The only Toyotas that interest me are the various permutations of the Mister Two. And as for Lexus, they make the best darn Buicks in the world!
    Now, one final time:
    How many BMWs have you driven?
    Thought so.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    And the topic is the X3.

    There's four or five comparison topics in the archives that we'll be happy to reopen (or feel free to start an X3 v RAV4 one).

    If you just want to rant about other cars or other drivers, may I suggest:

    ""Wouldn't Be Caught Dead Driving One""

    and

    "You Are What You Drive!?"

    Steve, Host
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .drive it like you live.

    I just signed back in and found this word war about two vehicles.

    What is snob appeal? Do BMW's have it?

    Beats me?

    There are snobs of all sorts for all sorts of things.

    I know folks who own Saabs, Volvos, Nissans, Audis, BMWs and Mercedes (and plenty of other brands.)

    Nothing I can put my finger on would make me think that BMW appeals any more or less to "snobs."

    People that like and repeatedly own Saabs can claim they like their cars because they're quirky -- but the key on the floor isn't usually something that makes me feel the Saab fan is a snob.

    I freely admit to knowing nuttin' about the Toyota RAV that has been part of the preceding discussion. My ONLY comment is I would, personally, not look at the X3 and the RAV as having a similar intended market.

    My wife thinks the X3 is "mostly" a BMW car not a BMW SUV (of course even BMW calls it an SAV.)

    She might consider an Infiniti or Acura "SUV" but I doubt it. She momentarily "paused" at both the Cayenne and Touareg V8, but found them not quite as car like as the X3.

    Maybe she would've loved the Toyota -- my gut is telling me they are generally not cross shopped. I have no clue what, if any, snobbish behavior this suggests.

    I don't personally know any valets so they are not able to offer me any insights either.

    The X3 is a great BMW -- IF it is equipped with "all the toys" -- indeed, it seems to be darn near a Premium Car when all the option boxes (except auto trans) are checked off.

    My wife busts on my continuing to be an Audi customer -- but this has nothing to do with her being a snob as far as I can tell.

    Drive it like YOU live.

    :shades:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I drove the X3 in deep snow after it was first introduced and the xdrive was amazing.

    The thinking here eludes me. For example taking the Cayenne turbo as an extreme example, if you ignore that fact, the Cayenne turbo hits 60 in 5 seconds can do 155 without breathing hard, compete with a 911 and is capable of serious off-roading; anyone can say the new RAV4 is just as good for $65K less.

    To me the same thought process holds for the X3, while not a speed rocket or off-roader by any means, it handles as competently as the 3 series sedan. Something the RAV4 will never do. Yes it's more expensive and probably faster as well. People don't buy the badge, they buy what the badge represents in terms of performance and the essential BMW character.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    People don't buy the badge, they buy what the badge represents in terms of performance and the essential BMW character.
    Precisely. BMW has remained focused on its "Ultimate Driving Machine" mission statement ever since the introduction of the "New Class" 1500 sedan at Frankfurt in 1961. In the case of the X3, BMW has managed to combine surprising off-road ability with-as you noted-the responsive handling of a 3er sedan. Now, if Munich would only cook up a "3.5is" version...
  • victord1victord1 Member Posts: 94
    Wow, that's one impressive list of cars I must say. But do you drive/own any other brands, beside the Jeep???

    After having owned BMW's (325ic, 330ix, Z4, X5) for about 20 years, my cousin is switching to another "snob mobile": Lexus. His next car will be a Lexus (RX330 most likely). The one thing he says he'll miss about BMW is how grabby the brakes feel. To him that's the essential BMW character. :confuse:
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    But do you drive/own any other brands, beside the Jeep???

    There are a lot of very nice cars on the market these days. As I mentioned earlier, we seriously considered an Xterra Off Road instead of the X3 but we finally decided it was a bit over the top for a daily commuter. In the past decade we've also owned a 1993 Pathfinder SE and a 1984 T-Bird 5 speed Turbo Coupe. Back in 2001 we were ready to pull the trigger on a CPO Audi A4 Quattro, but the local Audi dealer tried to pull a fast one(as usual) so we drove over to the BMW dealer and bought a CPO 528i. I'm also first in line to buy a pristine 1967 Cougar XR-7 when/if the original owner ever decides to flip it. My cars don't have to be BMWs, but they do have to be somewhat interesting.
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    I'm not sure I follow. The fact is the RAV does not come remotely close to any performance attribute of the Cayenne Turbo.

    But pitted against the X3, the gaps are much narrower. In some aspects the RAV actually goes one up on the X.

    I think the RAV will not compared well with a fully-loaded, sport-suspensioned X3 3.0 (especially if it gets the 255hp motor, and 6-speed steptronic). But I have seen, and driven a base (or lightly optioned) X3 2.5, and that model is nothing to write home about, anyway you look at it. It's underpowered, with few amenities and lux features, has cheap-looking material inside and out. To me, it disgraces the BMW marque. You can't tell me the RAV with V6 doesn't eclipse it. If I can only afford to buy an X3 in that guise, I'm not going to waste my time with a pretender. I'll rather go with a loaded "lower" brand.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "You can't tell me the RAV with V6 doesn't eclipse"

    Eclipse it how? It's just another option. Rather than Acura's take or not approach, BMW allows one to completely customize the vehicle. While the 2.5 isn't the speediest demon on the block it's meant as an entry level engine, with the same great handling characteristics as the other models. Whether or not the marquee is disgraced? I don't know but they seem to be selling quite well. I remember when the Boxster first came out. It was then said the Boxster disgraced the Porsche marquee. It seems to me the Boxster and X3 have something in common...a different vehicle than each manufacturer has previous made in an attempt to broaden their customer base.

    To some the new RAV4 might be a good value. Choosing the RAV4 over the 2.5 due to hp is an individual decision about priorities.
  • driver100driver100 Member Posts: 31,964
    Beautifully said KD -sums it up perfectly.

    This all started with buying a less expensive RAV instead of an X3 so the kid could have a Yuris to go to university.

    IMO dad should get a car he will truly be happy with and Junior should get a job and buy his own Yuros or Yugo or whatever.

    Hopefully Junior will learn to earn money to buy his own car one day, which might even be a BMW!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • victord1victord1 Member Posts: 94
    My uncle (ex-military fighter pilot) used to have one of those T-Bird turbo, until he ran it into a street light and totalled it.

    I haven't owned a BMW yet. My 330i w/sport won't be here until the end of January, and we might even cancel the deal before then. But I have tested a few, and the one thing that tickles my curiosity is that ride has the best compromise between performance/sport and luxury. This aspect, however, is missing from the X3. According to some reviewers (and my cousin), the X3 ride is harsh and brittle especially with the sport package.

    I personally haven't set foot in it yet. SUV or SAV are not my thing. :P I prefer seating closer to the ground.
  • davidc1davidc1 Member Posts: 168
    Perhaps someone should create a X3 vs. RAV4 discussion? As far as the numbers go, I do think the new RAV4 will beat the X3 even with 255hp motor since the Toyota should be a lot lighter (I believe mags clocked RAV4 dong 0-60 in 6.5 secs). But I doubt a typical BMW buyer will cross-shop RAV4. That's just my guess. Non BMW fans might compare the two though.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Since large portions of the recent thread didn't focus much on the SUV, we decided to do a little year-end housecleaning.

    Steve, Host
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    There exists an archived thread X3 vs Forester vs ???. The Forester XT turbo has been clocked to 60 in under 5.3 seconds. It's fast. It's reliable. It's rated very highly by CR/IIHS etc. And the XT Turbo premium only has a hint of luxury.

    In the comparo forum there were some very passionate arguments made toward the Forester and all of them were on the money. If one discounted the handling, amenities, feel of the car, and one doesn't have the extra 10 grand for the 3L the Forester is a compelling choice. If one has the extra money and discount the Foresters' fiery acceleration the X3 wins, IMO.

    I suspect this will be something similiar with the RAV4. The Toyota fans are going to say hp, 0-60, value. The BMW fans are going to say handling, amenties and general performance. Nobody will be wrong. Just don't try to convince a BMW fan that HP = better performance. And don't try to convice a Toyota fan that BMW makes a better car.

    BTW - I found the X3 to be as compliant as the old E46 in terms of ride. The sport package admittedly is a bit harsh, but it is an option.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Out of the archives; we'll add the RAV4 to it for grins and see if others find the comparison apt.

    BMW X3 vs Subaru Forester/XT vs Infiniti FX 35

    Steve, Host
  • bodble2bodble2 Member Posts: 4,514
    The V6 is more than just an engine option. (Well, maybe in US it is). And the base X3 2.5 is not just an X3 with a entry-level engine. A vehicle in that price range with vinyl seats, plastic bumper covers, no Homelink, alarm? Well, it's your money. No engine, no lux, but it has THE FEEL!! Ok. But like I said, it's your $$. To each his own.

    Maybe the US market is different. But in Canada they have had low interest lease deals on the 2.5 for as long as I can recall. So they offer inducements 'cause the car is selling like hotcakes? :confuse: And I kinda doubt the situation is any different down south.
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