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  • clpurnellclpurnell Posts: 1,087
    There is nothing wrong for being a fan of a particular brand make or sports team (unless you are a packers fan there is no excuse for that). We just enjoy giving you a hard time. The FX is only my second import ever. My first was an oddysey which I owned for 4 months because it was what I needed than traded it on the FX because that is what I wanted. Luckily Oddy's are extremely popular and I actually made 100 bucks in the process. I am warming up to BMW my brother has owned 3 different 3 series when I was growing up and he loves them. He now drives an sc300 and is amazed at how solid it feels with 120k on the clock. The reliability and service costs of the Beemers and mercs scare me away each time I consider one. After the problems I had with my last domestic and the laaging german reliability keeps me from closing the deal on any future domestic or german vehicle.
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 593
    sorry to disappoint you and sorry i misstated. NPR did not review the book, they just invited the author for a chat. now hmmm.

    as a family that has a jaguar s and bmw 3 convertible, and an exceptional one, i'm not a bmw basher, but the fine line between balanced reporting and fanaticism has to be respected.

  • ksomanksoman Posts: 593
    because the dollar is getting cheaper against the euro and will stay cheap for a few years. When I was in europe much of last year, i was actually getting a euro and some euro-cents over for every buck in my pocket. on my recent most trip, i felt raped.... that 18 odd % drop they been talking about translates to a lot of "cost" in real life.

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "fanaticism has to be respected"

    ksso - If you knew me personally you would know I am not a BMW fanatic. I enjoy cars in general, especially am fond of manufacturers of all brands that managed to get it "right". BMW is one of a number of brands of manufacturers that managed to get it "right". The it is different depending on the manufacturer, but having said that, I am a big fan of BMW.

    cj - for years I have heard a mixed bag about BMW reliability. I knew several people a while back with the top of the line BMW that was always getting repaired. JD and Consumers have had something to say about BMW reliablity or lack thereof. I have personal experience with several satisfied owners. Mine has been ultra-reliable. But I'm waiting for the shoe to drop, though it never may.
  • Guys, you're going off the deep end. The purpose of this thread is not to bash each other or to get defensive. But to share one's experience and opinion, so others can make a better decision. I think the facts are on the table and I, for one, know what I need to know to make my decision.

    kd, you love the car for the reasons you mentioned. More power to you and good luck with your purchase. I tried really hard to see it the way you do. I really wanted to buy this puppy. Oh well!
  • tps3tps3 Posts: 17
    OK, easy fellas... regardless of your qualitative opinion, there are enough folks that have said they've placed orders so that we can hopefully collect some quantitative data. Has anyone placed an order for a price other than MSRP (higher, lower, and by how much) and what delivery timing are you being offered by the dealer?
  • ksomanksoman Posts: 593
    i did not mean to argue, i just wanted to say, people will buy the X3, irrespective of good or not. personally i loved the ride, i am not so gravy about the looks.

    today i'm the bug
    yesterday i was the windshield
  • xsfoxsfo Posts: 17
    Do you have a link to that NPR book review about luxury? Or what book was it?
  • My dealer offered me, without much negotiating, $1000 off MSRP. However, since I ordered my 01 325Cic, a GREAT car, from him, I'm a preferred customer with preferred pricing.

    I'm still trying to decide do I want the X3, despite the interior issues, or an Audi Allroad, or do I want to wait for the 05 Passat Wagon. I drive an 01 VW Passat GLX 4Motion wagon now and we love it. I just have the new car itch that needs scratched badly! I love my cars you know:
       2001 BMW 325Cic Convertible
       2001 VW Passat GLX 4Motion Wagon
       2002 VW Golf GLS
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Do you have to spend a lot of time thinking up that little jingle (and its variations) you put after your signature?

    I want to squash you like a bug on my windshield yesterday today and definitely tomorrow

    j/k :)
  • bretaabretaa Posts: 130
    I would also like to know the title of the book mentioned on NPR about the luxury phenomenon...

    Regarding the X3, I just saw it recently and my views fall somewhere in the middle of those expressed here. It's really like any BMW, in that if you like the package and have the money, you really can't loose. If you like the styling (I really do, although I'm not a fan of the black bumpers), like the handling, like the interior (I like the design, but I hope the materials appear cheaper because they are "SUV tough"...), and have the money, it's probably the best of its class.

    If I were to buy an SUV (which I probably wouldn't, but...), it would for me come down between the X3 and the Infinity models. I'd consider the Volvo X90, but the supposedly soft handling would probably put me off.

    Just my $0.02...

  • ksomanksoman Posts: 593
    hmmm, sometimes you are a louiville slugger, sometimes you are the ball
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    sometimes you are a Louiville Slugger, sometimes you are Saddam (or Osama).
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    I named one of my cats "Beemer" and got $1,000!

    I named the other one "Mac" but Mr. Jobs did squat, so I still drive an Intel box.

    Sign me up for the bonus checks too :-)

    Steve, Host
  • ulepulep Posts: 63
    we ordered an x3 3.0, metallic paint, heated front seats, premium package and automatic trans (my wife's driving it) for $40,800.00. i now most of the people in this thread dont like the x3, but me and my wife really love it. you dont feel driving an suv, it feels like a car. and i think the design is pretty good. and the plastic bumpers, well i think that's why they called it a sports activity vehicle. the interior is nice and much better looking if you get the black leather. we ordered it because its the right car for us. the important thing is knowing what you want...
  • ulepulep Posts: 63
    we ordered the x3 at the last week of nov. the papers said "to be delivered on or about feb 1st 2004." anybody got a lower price than what i got it for?
  • saugataksaugatak Posts: 488
    If you think I'm wrong to compare the interior materials of the X3 to Altimas, Santa Fes and Escapes, think again.

    I have looked and sat in all four of these cars recently and I can tell you firsthand that BMW is using cheaper or as cheap interior materials than those 3 cars.

    It's all about value. I am not going to complain about a cheap interior on a $20k car, but I would be pissed about a cheap interior in a $40k car.

    BMW seems confident that they can get away with using cheap interior materials as long as they provide the BMW ride. Maybe they're right.
  • jjmanjjman Posts: 77
    I questioned saugatak comparison(and maybe his sanity) of the X3 to a Yugo because that is a gross exaggeration. The interior looks and feels just fine. If you want to compare the x3 to the fx then that interior isn't so great either and the price of that car can hit 41 - 42 k too. Perhaps everybody is looking for the interior to be more like a Touregs but then for the same price you get more refinement but you definitely don't get the handling or the speed.
    I guess it all comes down to compromises and despite some interior shortcomings I like what the x3 has to offer
  • tps3tps3 Posts: 17
    ulep and wwenzel. So it sounds like you guys got $1,000 - $1,400 off sticker as early adopters. Any other experiences out there? Dealers who are holding firm at sticker, or asking for a premium over sticker? Enquiring minds want to know...

  • ulepulep Posts: 63
    i actually shaved off $1650.00 on my order.what we did is we emailed all bmw dealerships here in nj and asked for the qoute. before you know it, they were bidding. we actually did business w/ the internet dept of the dealerships. we didnt have any problems. as for the vehicle it's just perfect for ME and my WIFE...
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    I like ulep's approach - go with what is best for you. :)

    Here is my spin on this:
    BMW markets the x5 to a more upscale clientele who want an SUV as a grocery getter and trip taker. The x3 is geared (no pun intended) to a younger and more active crowd. These people are wanting the storage and space of the x3, along with the performance of a 3, which nobody is disputing. The x3 is geared to an active lifestyle, so I can understand why the lower grade quality is there.

  • ksomanksoman Posts: 593
    so you are suggesting bmw borrowed the plastic concept of the honda element.

    interestingly bmw just announced a special lease on the X5 3.0.

    i wonder if there's anything behind the timing here... a X3 is likely to be even with the X5 on a lease, considering 3.0 models for both.
  • Has anyone here test drove both the X3 and X5. I am curious to hear if there is a difference in handling and performance. I'm assuming the X5 will be a bit more sluggish due to the extra 600 to 700 pounds in weight.
    If the difference in handling is not so great, considering the little difference between the two (only $4K for the X5 3.0) I think you get much better quality workmanship with the X5.

  • I never owned a brand new BMW but I heard some horror stories about the oil change costs $100 so BMW can warranty the car. Is this true? Anyone?
  • tps3tps3 Posts: 17
    I drove both side by side, both 3.0 liter automatic with premium package. (Ok, before somebody gets all anal about it, I admit, I drove them sequentially not literally side by side. Anyway.)

    X5 was definitely a smoother, more supple ride. X3 suspension was stiff, "sporty" if you're of that mindset, "haywagon" if you're not. X5 interior was same materials as 3 series and old 5 series, X3 interior was lower-grade plastic. I could tell that although the X3 was smaller in weight and exterior dimensions the interior was set up more sensibly to optimize storage, i.e. lower load level and so on versus the X5 so I could see why the interior volume would be the same.

    Acceleration-wise, to get to your question, the X3 was a bit zippier although there was a weird off-the line lag on the X5 with the automatic that I didn't experience with the X3, which could bias things somewhat. (Lot of people complain about this... doesn't matter to me, I'd get the 6-speed stick either way). I thought both, for trucks particularly, performed quite well. But I thought the X3 was more car-like overall, and you could notice the lower weight.

    Word is that residuals on the X3 are lower than the X5, which means on a lease basis yes they'll come close similarly equipped with the same engine. (Depending on where the X3 actually sells, which is the reason for my price questions... should it sell for sticker when one could get a deal on an X5, the 5 might even be cheaper on a lease.) Build quality (*not* interior materials quality which is another topic and is readily apparent once you look at 'em) is probably a push. I understand the Spartanburg plant had trouble early which they've since worked out. Magna Steyr - who knows?

    X3 does have the newer gadgets though, such as the panorama roof, the adaptive xenons, and the "sensotronic" (sensormatic?) steering. Found some slippery roads which both handled very well.

    All in all from a marketing perspective this one puzzles me. Too bad for BMW that they weren't able to bring in the X3 for $3-5k lower than they did to create some real distance away from the X5, as it is there'll be some meaningful cannibalization one way or another.
  • tps3tps3 Posts: 17
    Sched maintenance is included (free) for 4 years 50k miles. The car tells you when to go in. Oil changes are far apart on the schedule, 15k miles under typical driving. They load the car up with synthetic and seem to believe this is sufficient, despite what your friends at Jiffy Lube might have you believe.

    I would imagine once the free maintenance is up, yes it would be pricey. But that's 4 years away for any prospective X3 owner at this point.
  • bretaabretaa Posts: 130
    Regarding the X3's interior, while I don't think it's quite as high quality (material wise) as the current 3-series, for the X3's price and position in the market, I think the current quality level is "just fine" and what is expected.

    The problem BMW has (and for that matter, *all* other automakers makers have, especially the luxury brands Cadillac and Infiniti) is that Audi/VW (and Lexus to a lesser extent) are really raising the bar on interior design and materials. While the Toureg doesn't quicken my pulse styling-wise inside or out, I can't deny that its interior looks and feels like a million bucks. Same for the Phaeton and, to a lesser extent, the A8 and new Lexus RX. I have a gut feeling that the next Passat is going to do the same thing to the Accord/Camry/Altima class.

    BMW and the rest are eventually going to have to rise to the challenge. For now, the X3 interior is OK, but they'll have to keep upgrading it...

  • Has anyone here test drove both the X3 and X5. I am curious to hear if there is a difference in handling and performance. I'm assuming the X5 will be a bit more sluggish due to the extra 600 to 700 pounds in weight.
    If the difference in handling is not so great, considering the little difference between the two (only $4K for the X5 3.0) I think you get much better quality workmanship with the X5.

  • saugataksaugatak Posts: 488
    "questioned saugatak comparison(and maybe his sanity) of the X3 to a Yugo because that is a gross exaggeration. The interior looks and feels just fine. If you want to compare the x3 to the fx then that interior isn't so great either and the price of that car can hit 41 - 42 k too."

    jjman, you need to take the beer goggles off when looking at the interior of the X3. maybe kdshapiro should give you some of the "cheerleading" money he gets from BMW, LOL!

    also, when you say the FX is merely a "G35 on stilts", come on! The FX is a very nice car and by all accounts, handles just fine (never test driven it myself) and the interior is a whole lot better than the X3, no contest. Also, the FX sells for a lot off MSRP so you can get it a lot cheaper than the X3, plus the FX35 has 280 HP!

    so jjman, while you may question my sanity for comparing the interior materials of the X3 to a Yugo (and really, the comparison is very fair), I'd question your sanity for the way you have dissed the FX, which is a very fine car.

    Also jjman, if you look at my review of the X3, you'll notice that aside from the price and the interior materials of the X3, I'm very complimentary about the car.
  • saugataksaugatak Posts: 488
    I haven't driven a 2004 X5, but I've driven a 2002 (maybe 2003, can't recall) X5 so I can give you a comparison between those two.

    Main thing is, the driving position is a lot higher off the ground, so I felt that the suspension was a little looser on the X5 and there was some sway when going hard into turns with the X5 that I did not feel with the X3.

    I think that's to be expected. When the car weighs more and is higher off the ground, it isn't going to handle quite as well.

    That being said, the X5 still handles great and is definitely the best handling SUV in its class (handles a lot better than my Acura MDX).

    Maybe the 2004 X5 with x-drive will handle better, don't know.

    Also, in terms of space, the X3 feels just as roomy than the X5, so I don't think the X5 uses interior space as efficiently as the X3.

    With respect to interior materials on the X5, it's no contest -- X5 hands down.

    I just want to say one more thing about cheap, had plastics and then I will refrain from beating on the X3 interior (feel like this topic has been done to death already). I hate 'em bad because my exp. in the Northeast is that they shrink in the cold and expand in hot weather and after a while the car starts developing annoying rattles everywhere.

    With regard to the X3 being manufactured by Magnum Steyr (not sure if spelling is right?), I wouldn't worry about it. It's a company with a great reputation and I think the Austrians have the same attention to detail and quality that the Germans are famous for (I mean, aren't they ethnically the same?).
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