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Comments
That's a thought. It's not the room in the X3 that's the factor it's the drivetrain. I probably should have realized in the back of my mind xDrive is going to be transitioned to other models. I wonder if BMW has any plans to add it to the 5 or 7 series?
I used to have a 328. The X3 felt, to me, more of the throw-it-around-a-corner feel that I enjoyed in that car. So when I say 'carlike', that's the car I compare it to, not a Jetta or a Buick. (If only my wife would go for a 330xi... anyhow.) The X5, while good-handling, was marginally less light-feeling and throwable. Not Ford Explorer trucklike to be sure, but more trucklike than the X3. I think the three factors in play were 1. more responsive auto tranny on the X3 (who knows why, may have been idiosyncracies of the tester wheels) 2. lighter weight on the X3 and 3. more supple ride on the X5 which was certainly more comfortable but didn't feel sporty handling-wise as my old 3-series did.
By the way, Rodut, thanks for your post - it was laugh out loud funny. What a hoot!
ksso
The technology debuted on the 7 series I believe and is now slowly being pushed down the model line.
The cars I test drove with x-drive were great, handled better IMO. However, some people have found that on rough roads the computer gets confused where to direct power, making for a rougher ride. I didn't notice any difference, but then again, my personal preference is to value handling and no body lean in turns to the exclusion of everything else, so a slightly bumpier ride doesn't bother me at all as long as I feel in total command of the car.
I suspect the x-drive is 95% of the way there and BMW will get it perfect in a few years. Hopefully, early purchasers will just be able to get software upgrades to get xDrive 2.0.
The photos don't do the X3 justice as it looks much better in person.
The X5 looks the same to me, and I really like the E60, inside and out. All the criticism of iDrive to me is unjustified. After fooling with it, it seems easy enough to use. The model I checked out up close and personal was a 545. I like the front, back, left, right and interior. By me anyway, the car is a winner in the looks dept. It topped out at $57K. Sticker said EPA mileage was 26 on the highway.
Today I closely examined the second dealer model that just came in. I looked very carefully around the entire vehicle. And poked and opened pretty much anything that could move. I was very impressed with that latest build that probably represents the production runs that will commence first week of January. The plastics in the passenger compartment seemed to have a much better fit. And the plastics in the dashboard seemed to have much more give, and much less of a plain(cheap) plastic feel.
The X3 is a great vehicle, with superb handling, an amazing panorama sunroof, and a build quality that is very much like the Z4. I am going to buy one. I am sure that many others will too. Readers on the fence may wish to place a deposit, because the national advertising begins on Jan. 1 with major spots on all the college pro bowl games.
You also mentioned you noticed a big difference in the quality of the interior and the dashboard. The dashboard I saw and felt during my test drive was as hard as a rock and super cheap looking (and feeling). Since the cheap feel of the interior has been my primary turn off, can you give a bit more detail?
Thanks...
BMW built so many pre-production X3s that they could send one to every dealer out there in the US?
sounds kinda ummm....
ksso
That would be my take on it. Not only for the dealers, for the press. Perhaps they are learned the art of getting the presses' attention.
no wonder wife's 3 convertible was expensive. hah.. that's where some of the cost was hidden.
and since when did bmw need to get the press's attention?
ksso
oh wait, i forgot many people will go buy those at the end of the model year, now the math all adds up.
I suggest any fence sitters go now and examine the second vehicle to arrive at each dealer. I think most of the latest dealer demos are of the 6 speed 3.0 variety.
Once the national ad campaign begins on Jan 1, I suspect the Feb. and March allocations will go quickly.
Volvo had a nightmare with the XC90 launch (with half their initial inventory sinking in the english channel) and no demos at dealers. Word was that some dealers specifically leased vehicles just to use as demos.
Folks generally won't pre-order a car they haven't driven for themselves first...
I didn't have any problems with the build quality of the X3 I test drove, I just thought it was a great car with a cheap interior. If BMW has fixed that, then it will definitely be a close call between the X3 and the Acura TL.
Hopefully, the criticism of the interior materials by reviewers and car sites like Edmunds convinced BMW that good interior materials would help enable them to hit a grand slam with this car.
Sigh, just got an MDX so it's not like I need 2 SUVs, but to drive a 3 series with x-drive and room, I may have to just pull the trigger and do it.
I don't think an auto manufacturer can change production processes on the dime. Don't know what's up with the interior, I found it satisfactory compared to my vehicle.
There is a lot of mixed reviews on the X3, which makes me believe BMW did not hit a home run on the first pitch, as they thought they might. Even the car magazines can't agree!
I've been looking for a luxury mid-size SUV for some time, passing on the ML, FX, Toureg (why are there not more comparisons to the Toureg on the board?), etc. The only one I really liked was the X5 -but out of my price range (I'm a realist when it come to buying cars, I like to keep the price within a comfort zone - and with with the NO Discount policy and high price & lousy trade-in from the jerks at my local BMW dealer - no X5).
But, all that said, what I didn't come away from my X3 Demo was no memorable attributes. After I demo'd the X5 - I thought about the commanding seating position, the look of the dash, the comfort of the seats, the feel of the ride. When I finished the X3 demo I didn't come away with anything specific.
I'm sure BMW will do fine with the X3. As previously mentioned, lots of NEW buyers will anty up $40 large to get one...I get the feeling that they will sell a lot of 2.5L versions as entry level versions - again for the newbies.
I recently did the BMW assembly plant tour in Spartanburg SC, and was very empressed. They in fact had a few X3's sitting around in the PREP area, but really didn't get a chance to chat with anyone...the tour moves very fast and I was harboring a nasty cold so I was not very sociable. But, I would buy a X5 in a heart beat, if I could.
I'm going down to the NYC BMW store today, and will report back any additional info that might be interesting.
2.5L is not for newbies. It's an SULEV engine choice that BMW offers and people with serious money and lot's of BMW cars under their belt buy them for THEIR own reasons. Not because one thinks of it as entry level. After checking out the vehicle and reading about xDrive, I would rather have a 2.5L X3 than other so called SAVs,SUVs,XUVs.
For those that keep saying X3's interior is great or X3 and X5 have the same interior and overall quality, you're either a BMW sales rep or blind, or both!!
That's an incredibly condescending statement.
There is nothing wrong with the X3s interior (the wood not the metal, I hate the metal). I cannot see what the issue is. It does not look or feel "cheap" as people are saying. Hey, that's why Lexus and Audi exist.
But, I think they have a real problem - with the X5 just a few $K more than a 3.0 X3, you don't want to erode your higher profit X5 with a close competitor at a considerably lower price. It is quite a juggling act for the marketing dept. BMW said that farming out the assembly to Magna Styr has cut into their profit margin, but the car is still profitable. Guaranteed the X5 is a big money maker for them, and you are treading on profits if you make the X3 a lot less expensive and divert X5 sales.
But all that said, the X3 would be a great mid $30K SUV, I just don't think $42K+ is a good value. Time and sales will tell! I would buy one at mid $35-37K. I'm just having a problem justifying $45,000 (tax, tag etc) for a compromise vehicle. Maybe I'll wait for the ML coming out in mid 2004.
It's just as good a value as an MDX or RX for that price. And you know either of these other two won't touch the X3 in terms of handling.
It seems to be priced on par with the 3-series (give or take a couple of dollars), which is interesting.
I'll be coming off lease soon on my 325i, and need something with a bit more room in back. The X3 sounds like it might do the trick. I also heard the X3 has a switch to kill the front passenger air bag (so an older child could sit up front). Does anyone know??
I did a quick build your own on BMW's site and here's what I came up with:
Both the X5 & X3 were configured with the following popular options):
Metallic Paint, Leather, Steptronic (X5 lists automatic) Transmission, Xenon Headlights, Cold Weather Package, Sport Package, & Premium Package.
X5 MSRP: $50,220
X3 MSRP: $45,095
The difference is $5,135. That's a lot of money. I feel like there is a big difference between the person shopping for a $45K truck & $50K truck.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
In my case I see a larger interior with just enough lux items and a lighter vehicle thats more fun to drive.
I also did a quick comparison and I found the base model for both + PP + Xenon lights + Auto =
$42,845 for the X3 (TMV price by Edmund)
$46,208 for the X5 (TMV price by Edmund)
For a difference of about $3400
Checkout the two vehicle side by side,
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison;jsessio- nid=1rI4kg7b587UhW8L0QqtgcAteXqW1My1PiMixVFenRizNscwO81z!66335485- 2?basestyleid=100344159&styleid=100374221&refid=&maxv- ehicles=5&op=3&tab=features
Example of the quality difference:
Spare tire: fullsize matching alloy for the X5
Spare tire: temporary steel for the X3
Those who have sat in both know this is consistent throughout the car. I think X3 is a nice car. Just too expensive comparing to it's sibling.
Now I got to go open my presents
one man's food is another man's poison, as the old adage went...
ksso
shap1 - the back seat has more leg room than a current 3 series. You can actually sit back there without your knees touching the front seats, based on where I put my front seat and I'm 6'. Overall it is much more spacious than a 3, but I think, as you have read on this forum, the ammenities are not up to 3 series level.
I have softened my opion a little recently when I saw the X3 with some wood trim rather than the monochromatic colors they seem to lean toward. BTW-I picked up the FULL X3 brochure and its very obvious from the pictures they selected that the monochromatic color scheme is what they were after. Almost all the interior shots are with the gray on gray and aluminum - which many of the posts here object to. Maybe they got bad info at their focus groups. There is one picture of the black interior with the terracotta, and it looked very classy.
OK, so the debate will continue until the production units hit the dealers in a few weeks, and we will see how many X3 they sell. That is the ultimate test!
Didn't notice lack of adjustability on seat belts.
I also agree with doneby and phastphil that BMW cut back on the X3 in order to protect their profit margins on the X5.
I've been loking at SUV's in the mid-$20K's to $30K. The 2.5 while being down in power somewhat does have many systems such as DSC that others don't have.
So what I'm considering is a 2.5, 6-speed, only option being the moonroof. European delivery gets you a 7% discount. I believe this would run about $30.5K. I would order it, wait, and go pick it up. Maybe catch the Oktoberfest?
That's where the value is at. Plus the warranty and maintenance that competitors at this price don't offer!
I was enthused at first with the X3 but after riding one and reading the review at :
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_- id=7592&page_number=1
I must say that anyone who buys this car doesn't care about quality or the ride and only about the looks. What is amazing to me is the review in Edmunds.com. If you buy this car you will be dissapointed. As far as the interior, I can't believe a car cost this much and has a tin foil feel. I rather buy an FX35. Infinti seems to really have their act together and I believe their cars are just as good as Lexus
Tis true any metal interior is not to my liking, but the wood interior is very BMW. And after checking out a 3L wood interior with the 6MT, I have no qualms with the interior.
To me, X3 definitely has a nicer sporty feel to it and seems more responsive (more like a sports car than a SUV). It gets around the corners tight and beautifully for a SUV. I also noticed it did look better with a wood trim and baige color leather. In general, the interior was nicer than the original model but still low grade for a $40+ K car.
The X5 has clearly (and I mean clearly!) more luxurious interior and feel. I parked the two side by side with the doors open. Hands down, the X5 has a more plush interior for a few more thouands. X5, however, does not quite match the X3 in handling and agility. The softer suspension shows as it gives around the turns and stopping the car is not as easy as the X3 due to the heavier weight. But you do get a much smoother ride on a straight away. On take off, X5 holds it's own despite the heavier weight. I can't figure this out. Heavier car with the same engine feels as quick (could it be the torque?? Need to check the manual).
Now here is the kicker. Every sales rep I've talked to is telling me they have been selling the X3 2.5 and not much of the X3 3.0. Even they think it would be silly to buy a loaded X3 3.0 over a X5! I think BMW is got a problem and I believe they will raise the price of the X5 to remedy this. Only time will tell.
I expected to buy an X3 when they arrived but did some comparisons against other capable SUVs. First I compared it to the X5. Like others have said there is only a $3K difference between an X5 and a 3.0 X3. When you added the options I wanted it was over $43K. I just didn't want an X5 because that body style has been around since 1999.
When I went to the dealer to see their X3 after Thanksgiving, I was really sure I didn't want the X3 because of the lack of space and the looks. It appears too much like a station wagon and not very well appointed.
Instead, I shopped around and bought a VW Touareg last week. V8 with 4.2L engine (same as Audi A8) and optioned equivalent to the X3 I priced for $39K plus tax. The VW is a real bargain and the handling is just as good as my wife's BMW 330i. More importantly, it is larger than the X5.
I had to read that again, are you sure? a 5000 lb suv handling as good as the best handling sedan around? I won't even say that about the x3!!
One thing I will admit too is that the x5 does look pretty close to being a competitor to the x3 now that I look at what it comes with. I will still get the x3 though because it is lighter and smaller and fits my lifestyle more which is active.
In any case, I test drove it again and found it to be a great ride, but I also heard some rattling in the back. I thought the overall build quality of the X3 was excellent so I suspect that adding some liner to the plastic will kill the rattle.
I test drove the X3 3.0i and I wouldn't say it handles like my BMW 330i \w sport pkg. It handles like a BMW but not the 330i.
The X3 has been designed to give modest levels of luxury and sportiness, and is offered at a relatively modest price (for BMW). It has a relatively high level of content at a base price, compared to the competition. Any premium you pay can be considered to pay for the 4/50 warranty and maintenance you get with the vehicle. The X3 as every vehicle must be looked at as an "entire package", which compromises this for that. It is good at many things, but expert at none in my opinion. Just like a Swiss Army knife.
I see how many of you want a high level of performance and luxury, but when you start doing that with this vehicle, pushing $40K+ with options, there are better choices. It is worth looking at if you stay around the $30K mark (after discount). Keep the finger off the Option Button.
But if you want to pay the exorbitant prices for BMW's options feel free; it'll subsidize the base models for the rest of us, which are still optioned better than 90% of the cars on the road.
ksso
That's it...I'm throwing in the towel...I'm turning the reins over to ksso.
i remembered when they first came out w/ the x5, people are laughing at bmw but it turned out it was one of the best suv out there. and now its happening again. oh well as i said before, knowing what you want is the most important thing. as for me, a $41K car can be bought but the piece of mind that my love ones is safe inside that car and the satisfaction that i feel for the x3 is priceless(like a credit card ad rigth :-})
anyway HAPPY NEW YEAR to all off you guys and take it easy with the posts. damn, its like theres a brawl in here. peace