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BMW X3

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Comments

  • vsromanvsroman Member Posts: 95
    although from what I've read, the Forester XT is quite capable, I do not think that most shoppers considering the FX and X3 would consider it, mainly because it doesn't have the premium label. At least that's why I wouldn't buy one.

    Plus you could argue that 10 others could be in the comparison as well. Reading the posts here and under the FX, lots of folks are considering both the X3 and the FX35 and a head to head discussion would be very interesting.
  • overtime1overtime1 Member Posts: 134
    ...most people have never heard of the XT. Its not "premium" but that doesn't mean it isn't as good in many ways and that people wouldn't cross-shop it if they knew about it. Not only that, one of the editor's in C&D review of the X3 made a direct comparison between the X3 and the XT...

    I don't see 10 other cars that realistically fit the category of sporty, fast, small, awd SUVs. True, the X3 and FX aren't that fast but they handle well.

    overtime
  • ashleyandersinashleyandersin Member Posts: 34
    Below is the price I have been quoted for an X-3 with zero deposit and just drive off fees. Anybody know if these residual values are accurate and if 2.4 is the best rate BMW has? Also please see my response at the end of the quote and feel free to correct me if I am wrong!!!

    This is the dealer quote:
    Sticker Price on X3: $35,520
    Internet Price: $34,495
    Res Value 15K 57% of sticker price & 12K 59%.
    Money Factor: 2.4 This is the Best Rate BMW has.
    Drive Off : $1414.99 (Lic Fees $274 + $525 Lease Fee + 1st payment)
    Monthly Payment 12k $509.45 + Tax =$551.45
    Both 3 YEAR 15K$527.45 + Tax =$570.99

    Dealer:
     
    All of the terms of your offer sound good with the exception of the monthly payments. Please check them.
     
    Specifically, please note that:
     
    (a) Given an "Internet Price" of $34,495 and a residual value (assuming 12k miles/year) of $20,956.80 (59% of the $35,520 MSRP), the amount financed is approximately $13,538.20 (the "Financed Amount"); and
     
    (b) Given a money factor of 2.4, which is approximately equal to an annual interest rate of 5.9% (1.0024 ^24)
     
    (c) An amortization of the Financed Amount yields a pre-tax monthly payment of approximately $411.30 per month (and assuming an 8.25% tax rate, an after tax monthly payment of approximately $445.20).
     
    According to my calculations, at a 2.4 money rate (or a 5.9% apr) a pre-tax monthly payment of $509.45 corresponds to a "capitalized cost" in the neighborhood of $37,726.77).
     
    Please let me know if my analysis is mistaken.
     
    Ashley
  • vsromanvsroman Member Posts: 95
    that someone interested in the high-end x3/fx is going to decide to go the suburu route. Even edmunds compares the Forester to the Rav4/Tribute/etc. This is not to insult the Forester, if I had only 28K to spend I would certainly consider it. It is a lot of performance for the money. Of course, at 28K, I might go for the Murano, but that's a whole other issue!
  • saugataksaugatak Member Posts: 488
    i think it's not a bad idea to stick the forester in the comparo. it's not a luxury vehicle but neither is the X3, although the X3 is a premium vehicle.

    a lot of times when i'm looking at a "premium" vehicle i start wondering, why am i paying this premium? how much extra car am i getting for my money? and when i compare the premium vehicle to the best of the slightly downmarket vehicles, my answer often turns out to be, not a lot.

    i'm not too familiar with subaru but people who like 'em really like 'em a lot so i'd be interested in hearing their observations.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "and when i compare the premium vehicle to the best of the slightly downmarket vehicles, my answer often turns out to be, not a lot."

    Well that's the whole value equation. Might was well include every type of SUV/SAV in the comparo. saugatak you are absolutely right in the scheme of things a RAV4 or CRV would be fine. You could include all of the Subaru turbos against an X3 and say the X3/FX35/MDX loses on value, but that doesn't help anybody who is looking to purchase the vehicle.

    If anything the comparo should NOT include the Subaru, but SHOULD include the RX330, MDX etc. At least they are premium vehicles.
  • jjmanjjman Member Posts: 77
    subaru just doesn't have the cache of the others though I would have to say infiniti isn't quite up there with the big boys yet.
    To add to the comparo I haven't yet driven an fx but i have ridden in one and it is powerful and the seats are nice and plush. Technologywise I'd say they cancel out because both have some things that the other doesn't.

    So to sum up my objections to the fx:

    1. No Manual
    2. Heavier
    3. Interior not as good lookin (no wood options) or roomy
    4. exterior too flashy (depends on taste of beholder)
    5. not a bmw

    Maybe if the fx offered a manual and was 4k cheaper then I would consider it more
  • overtime1overtime1 Member Posts: 134
    I'm not saying the cars are equivalent...just that they fill a similar niche in terms of function and performance. An XT v. X3 v. FX35 would make a for a fun thread.

    BTW vsroman, I could have spent upwards of 40k (our other car is a LOADED mdx) but just couldn't get past what a fun and useful vehicle the XT was when I was shopping around and the bang-for-buck is just AMAZING. I do have to disclose that I am an XT owner so my views might have a tinge of bias ;-).

    I'm not here to crap on the X3 at all...just thought that it might be a good thing to put in the comparo since I did compare the XT to the X3/X5 and FX35/45 and Murano and S4. Those didn't offer the 'fun' I was looking for (speed over luxury) but I did consider them before making a purchasing decision.

    overtime
  • maggi30maggi30 Member Posts: 2
    Thank you for the advice, tps3. You made some excellent points and were quite helpful. I am not a BMW aficionado by any means and can use all the help I can get!
  • saugataksaugatak Member Posts: 488
    Just added this discussion for comparos of the above 3 vehicles. I know most of you wanted just an X3 vs FX35 thread but I threw in the XT b/c I am value-minded and am always eager to learn more about cars that provide the "fun" factor without the hefty "prestige and pay" factor.

    Besides, I've read Overtime's contributions on other boards and like what he has to say.

    jjman, I like your initial comparison of the FX35 to X3 and hope that you'll start off the discussion by reposting in the X3 vs FX35 vs XT board.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Here's the link (I tweaked the discussion some):

    BMW X3 vs Subaru Forester/XT vs Infiniti FX 35

    Steve, Host
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    jjman - fwiw I agree with you. However, in the world of Edmunds one can cross shop any car with any other car. If you want to go strictly by the published performance numbers you can go one way. But I don't know anybody who buys a car based on 0-60.
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    Many do... just look at those who buy the cars for street drag racing.

    -Paul
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    eric - I submit they are in the minority. I should never say never, as someone, somewhere is always the exception. I have to add in my world, people are fairly conversative and won't for example, cross shop an Excursion with an Sti. But I'm sure someone, somewhere will come up with the case of why these two vehicles should be compared side-by-side.
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    The thing about the VQ is I don't have to rev it to redline to get the acceleration I want. It has gobs of torque through the entire powerband that I seldom go over 4500 rpm. Either way my mileage is going about 80-90mph on the hwy. That is effortless in the fx and still pulls 21 mpg+.

    Overtime I guess along with the BMW fanatiscim comes subaru fanatiscism too. I will see you all on the VS thread.
  • lakshmanlakshman Member Posts: 47
    I am planning to order a x3 2.5L next week in NJ.
    The MSRP with options(moon roof & steptronic) comes to $33,620. When I last spoke to the salesman, he told he would only be able to take about 500$ off and the wait time is 2 months.

    It would be great if someone can tell how much are they are paying and what is the wait time.

    Thank you.
  • jjmanjjman Member Posts: 77
    sorry lakshman i think you are one of the few so you may have more info then the rest
  • vsromanvsroman Member Posts: 95
    interest in the 3.0, however, my dealer tells me that orders for the 2.5 far exceed the 3.0. I can't wait to here some feedback once folks start picking up their 2.5s.
  • jjmanjjman Member Posts: 77
    so far lakshman is one of the few interested in the 2.5 thats why his experience will help others though we can't help him. Personally I believe the 2.5 is too weak but then I have been driving nothing but 4cylinder cars so I thirst for a little power to brighten up my day. >:-|
  • vsromanvsroman Member Posts: 95
    I am surprised so many people are ordering the 2.5 w/o a test drive. I think many people are going to be :( about a 9.3 0-60. And it's not just 0-60, it's overall get up and go, whether passing on the highway, etc. I hope I am wrong about the 2.5's performance, because it's the 2.5 that is much more fairly priced. The 2.5 price compares directly with the FX35 price.

    If the better perfoming X3 3.0 was = in price to the FX35, I'd buy the X3. Since there is a 6K difference, I'm not so sure.
  • jjmanjjman Member Posts: 77
    just look at all those suvs that get 8.8-9.5 secs 0-60 times. Touareg, explorer, expedition, excursion, etc.... doesn't seem to matter to majority of the suv buyers. Most seem to just want the utility and the macho image.
  • saugataksaugatak Member Posts: 488
    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that there is not going to be too much 2.5 feedback for 2 reasons:

    1. car enthusiasts dominate these boards and none of those types are considering the 2.5 and

    2. who wants to post how they got passed by every toyota corolla on the freeway?
  • ulepulep Member Posts: 63
    I agree that the 2.5 might be a little too weak for the x3.it might take away the fun of driving an x3...but not all 4 cylinders are weak,i have one, and it's almost as fast as the m3..that's almost.
  • bmwbob27bmwbob27 Member Posts: 35
    If the X-3 is such a great vehicle and you all seem to be praising it.Then why are there 6 new X-3's on the dealer's lot waiting for immediate delivery. They have been there since Monday.
    3/3.0 Blue & 3/3.0 Black
  • jjmanjjman Member Posts: 77
    they are either waiting for delivery to customers or are just for test driving. Especially since the x3 isn't for sale until Feb
  • vsromanvsroman Member Posts: 95
    "If the X-3 is such a great vehicle and you all seem to be praising it"

    Stated after several posts criticizing the 2.5 engine, not to mention the many negative interior quality posts, etc.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    There are two interiors, one is my taste the other is not. There is nothing wrong with the wood trim interior, it has the same quality as my 3-series, which is perfectly acceptable for my tastes, IMO.

    The 3L engine is more than adequate, not sure about the 2.5. Dealer said a number of customers already ordered the X3 with delivery the end of February. They almost had one more...
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    you: Personally I believe the 2.5 is too weak but then I have been driving nothing but 4cylinder cars so I thirst for a little power to brighten up my day.

    me: my advice - buy a $30K 2.5 and take the $5K - $10K you save over the 3.0, and go buy a used performance car. Maybe you'll need to throw in a few more thousand. A 300ZX, Mazda RX-7, Camaro, Supra? A slightly more powerful SUV is not a substitute for a performance car. Buy the SUV for utility.
  • doneby2010doneby2010 Member Posts: 27
    I tend to agree with one of the earlier posts (Saugatak?) I thought the 3.0s responsiveness was very good but not spectacular, so at 4000 lbs the 2.5 engine will be too weak. The whole point of buying a BMW is the performance aspect of it.

    But as I said earlier, the dealers I've talked to have been selling many more 2.5s.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "The whole point of buying a BMW is the performance aspect of it."

    Performance is more than 0-60. I took the 3L on two test drives and found the performance to be exceedingly acceptable. It may not win every street race, but then again no vehicle will. For those who care about gas mileage I would believe it has the right balance between performance and mileage, at least for the 3L. The X3 3L is also not as spunky as my 3L. But then again the FX35 won't have the same numbers as the G35 due to the additional weight.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    IMO the only performance you should expect is excellent handling compared to other SUV's. It won't be as good as a car though. If you're expecting excellent handling performance you'll want a car.

    With either engine you will not have performance on this 4,000+ lb vehicle. You will get "adequate or normal" acceleration, compared with other traffic. If you want power-performance than you'll want 2 more cyclinders or some sort of blower, which isn't the current X3. Maybe an M-series in the future?

    The type of performance I'd like to know about if anyone has it is how X-Drive works. I'd like to know if the system can send power to an individual wheel, if there is only 1 with traction? Does the X3 use viscous differentials, or is it all electronic sensors?

    I also am buying a Seadoo jetski which weighs 800 lb + the trailer. Has anyone seen info. on the tow ratings - 2.5 manual? I guess I'd have to get a trailer hitch later?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "I'd like to know if the system can send power to an individual wheel, if there is only 1 with traction"

    It's not 4wd, but from the description on BMWs website up 50% torque can be sent to any one wheel. Means up to two wheels could power the vehicle.
  • emr2emr2 Member Posts: 5
    Funny you should mention the X-drive. We just came back from the dealer today and he mentioned how he couldn't believe that the X3 and X5 can put 100% power to a single wheel if the other 3 are slipping. Not sure if he was being truthful when you consider he also said that he only made 100 dollars from our deal. Hehe.

    We just signed for a X3 2.5L automatic with the following options:

    Titanium Metallic
    Cruise Control
    Black Leather
    Panoramic Roof
    Fog Lights
    Adaptive Xenon Head Lights

    The car is for my mother who is in her golden years, frugal but not a cheap skate by any means, lives in upstate New York, and quite active for a woman who's 60. She could care less about 0-60 specs. In other words current concerns about 2.5L vs. 3.0L are a non-issue for her light foot. Nor does she care for some of the luxuries she found in the RX330. The Pilot and Highlander didn't appeal to her tastes either.

    I'm not saying that this car is for grannies! But I do have a couple of comments. We made out well with pricing (~2100 off MSRP) all done over the Internet by me. We're looking at March delivery. I haven't test driven this car at all but she has on her own. I would've gone for a 3 series sedan myself but if the old lady's happy then so am I!
  • saugataksaugatak Member Posts: 488
    in an X3 2.5!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Part of BMWs appeal is to order it the way you want, as opposed to: "Is this car with or without Nav to go, SIR?"

    While it's true the BMW does not have every dang option of the competitors, I wouldn't want 'em any way. More electronic wizmos to break over time.

    While the 2.5 won't best all of the compeition, it still drives like a BMW, which to the people who get it, is an important point. It also is a very useful and functional layout inside. You'll have to let us know how she likes the vehicle.
  • emr2emr2 Member Posts: 5
    I think you got my mother's personality down pat. That is her. All of her friends have the bigger SAV's. I have no idea how these tiny old ladies are driving these monster vehicles.

    Possible electronics issue did concern her. My brother has a 2000 3 series with electronic problems from time to time (remote, door locks, etc). It just came out of warranty and I believe he's looking at the M3. Lucky dog.

    I have a funny feeling I'll be playing "Hoak" for a few days when she finally gets the vehicle. I'll be sure to "play" with it a bit. I think I'll leave Ms. Daisy at home though for that.

    I hope a few will post about the 2.5L driving experience soon. I'm very curious.
  • tps3tps3 Member Posts: 17
    KDShapiro, Xdrive *is* four wheel drive. I believe the torque is under normal conditions split front/rear but from left to right each wheel could be favored, so for example if the right front wheel is the only one with traction it would get 50%. Not 100%, but all of the power sent to the front wheels. Under normal circumstances all wheels will be powered.
  • ih8kdsih8kds Member Posts: 2
    "Part of BMWs appeal is to order it the way you want, as opposed to: "Is this car with or without Nav to go, SIR?""

    Another thinly veiled crack on Acura.

    "While it's true the BMW does not have every dang option of the competitors, I wouldn't want 'em any way. More electronic wizmos to break over time."

    Like perhaps I-Drive and X-Drive???

    "While the 2.5 won't best all of the compeition, it still drives like a BMW, which to the people who get it, is an important point. It also is a very useful and functional layout inside. You'll have to let us know how she likes the vehicle."

    Says the man with an automatic 3 series (I guess I don't get it).
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "xdrive *is* four wheel drive"

    Actually 4WD has the ability to lock the center diff and shift it into a low range locking all four wheels. In addition, a good 4WD will be able to direct almost 100% of power to one wheel. I do not believe xdrive an do either. While power can be delivered to all four wheels, it still is a sophisticated AWD system, not a 4WD system. There are actually plenty of internet sites that detail the difference in AWD and 4WD. The xdrive, like competitors systems, is designed to handle a range of engines sizes.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Like perhaps I-Drive and X-Drive???"

    The Germans and Americans have one thing in common over the Japanese, they let you build a car they way you like it. Yes, maybe providing pre-configured cars has a cost advantage to the Japanese, but it seems the Germans and Americans are not quite on board with the mostly all-or-nothing proposition in vehicle configurations.

    BTW Porsche has the customer experience of configurations down to a science. Of course you pay for the flexiblity.

    "Says the man with an automatic 3 series (I guess I don't get it). "

    You don't get what? Why anyone would want an automatic. I drove a manual for 12 years, and I don't see what difference it makes, what type of tranmission is on my car. Please tell me so we can carry on the conversation. I was very intested in the 6sp manual. Unfortunately that vehicle was tied up so I could only test the auto.
  • bmwbob27bmwbob27 Member Posts: 35
    jiman: i must inform you that your assumtion that the 6 X-3's are not for sale but awaiting ordered delivery. The San Francisco Bay Area BMW dealers all have at least 6 X-3's in stock and available for immediate dealivery since Monday. I alos, remember the statement from BMWUSA that deliveries would begin in February. Well, that is note true. Check the websites and you'll notice many X-3's for sale. Look at Fremont BMW. They have 7 for immediate delivery. I was at my BMW dealer(Sonnen)this afternoon purchasing an X-5 and a 325 wagon. There were many couples test driving the X-3 demo and some of the 6 X-3's in stock for sale. At the end of my dealings(5:30p.m.) there were no X-3' sold or orders taken. Still 6 available for delivery.
  • ulepulep Member Posts: 63
    http://www.townebmw.com/X3%20Pictures.html
  • doneby2010doneby2010 Member Posts: 27
    What options did you get with your X5 and what kind of discount did you get off MSRP? Have you compared that to a broker pricing? Just curious.
    Thanks.
  • tps3tps3 Member Posts: 17
    Totally agreed on your AWD/4WD clarification - my fault for using the wrong term. You had said

    "It's not 4wd, but from the description on BMWs website up 50% torque can be sent to any one wheel. Means up to two wheels could power the vehicle. "

    Which makes it sound like a two wheel drive system, which it's not. In normal conditions, four wheels power the vehicle.

    Regarding inventories in California... looking at a small sample of dealer websites that list inventories, it seems that CA is the only state with ready-for-sale cars. Is it possible that they made cars with CA emissions first in the production queue for some reason? I guess the other option is BMW is playing favorites...
  • doneby2010doneby2010 Member Posts: 27
    What options did you get with your X5 and what kind of discount did you get off MSRP? Have you compared that to a broker pricing? Just curious.
    Thanks.
  • saugataksaugatak Member Posts: 488
    ih8kds, does your screen name mean "I hate kids" or does it mean "I hate KD Shapiro" or does it mean something else? just curious.

    emr2, I think it's great your mom will be driving the X3. My mom drives a 745iL and she loves it, but frankly, all that horsepower is completely wasted on her. Hopefully, the X3 will make your mom feel young again and who knows, maybe she'll start taking you to school on the track?
  • bmwbob27bmwbob27 Member Posts: 35
    doneby2010:
    I am on a very good status with the dealership as I have delt with them for 8 vehicles since 2000.
    I sold them outright. A 2004 RX-330 and a 2003 Mini Cooper. Then I purchased both vehicles at $500 over invoice each.
    The X-5 is very basic: 3.0 auto,leatherette, premium sound. I've had all of the bells and whistles before. There is very little resale value for all of the options. The value is in the new X-drive. It handles without the sport package as good as the X-3 (my opinion) a little less on the H/Power, but not enough to make me want the X-3. Look at all of the standard equipment on the X-5 and you'll see the value there. I drove the X-3 4 times since November and yesterday I confirmed my original feelings. The X-3 is a "woman's" vehicle. Smaller seats, more confining on the interior with bad looking dashboard. I've posted before about my displeasure of the X-3.
    The manager wanted my RX 330 to demonstrate the difference between X-3 and the competitors. There were 2 couples that drove the RX and the X-3 yesterday. The women both wanted the RX because they didn't like the X-3's interior and lack of "creature features". In summation: The X-3 just isn't selling yet!! It's over priced compared to the other available vehicles. The X-5 is a steal compared to the X-3. Don't get me wrong, I am a true BMW fan but bought the RX330 after I sold my 2001 wagon for a great price in May 2003. I was waiting for the X-3 but fell into the trap of the Lexus RX 330. Now, that vehicle is a real "girley car". Way to plush and "Soft" for a man. Just as is the X-3.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "ih8kds, does your screen name mean "I hate kids" or does it mean "I hate KD Shapiro" or does it mean something else? just curious."

    LOL! Thanks for pointing that out saugatak. I'm honored someone would come up with a user name after me. :)
  • saugataksaugatak Member Posts: 488
    the bmw dealer i deal with can't keep X5's in stock. interesting that your dealer can't sell the X3. i'm sure he could move some if he budged off of MSRP.

    i don't understand what you mean by "girley cars" b/c you say both the RX330 and X3, which are polar opposites (one is all comfort while other is all handling) are both girley cars in your book but they're completely different.
  • mamgtmamgt Member Posts: 67
    "The X-3 is a "woman's" vehicle. Smaller seats, more confining on the interior with bad looking dashboard."

    I don't get it. Are all other smaller vehicles also "woman's vehicles" if they have a bad looking dash? I agree, the instrument cluster on the X3 could have a bit more back bone, but surely the rather stiff suspension of the X3 seems, if anything, geared to a sporty ride.

    I also test drove both the X5 3.0 and the X3 3.0 several times and found the 3X definitely more nimble due to the smaller size and lighter weight (600 lbs. less but same engine). Speaking of engine, during this whole debate of 3.0 vs. 2.5 did anyone living up North turn on the AC and pack in four additional passengers and try to accelerate going uphill with the steptronic? I think if you're planning on the step and using the AC alot, you'll be happy to have the extra power of the 3.0.
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