BMW X3

glenberk · January 2004

Lakshman:

I got my production # just as soon as my dealer entered the order into the BMW order computer. That should happen almost immediately after you place a deposit. Certainly should happen within 48 hours. The production # is all you need to sign onto the bmw website.

FYI: the vehicle's VIN # gets issued about 2 to 3 weeks before the vehicle's build week. My X3 2.5i is getting built by 1st week February. The VIN # was issued this past Monday.

ulep · January 2004

got my x3 $1600 off msrp. i didnt get the carpet as standard but my sales person gave it to me for free. it was suppose to be $100.
    i got the production # 4 weeks after i ordered the car. i had to call my dealer to give it to me. guess they forgot.
    My x3 is awaiting trasport since jan 24. can anybody with their past experience tell me how long until i get the car. they say that it will take 3-4 weeks. is that true..
    one other question is if i want to get a nav sys but didnt put it on my order, how much more will it cost me to get it done at the dealerership. it is even possible to get it done?

nyccarguy · January 2004

"Many people say a car is just meant for getting you from point A to point B. I say it is the point."

Jesse James

glenberk · January 2004

Ulep: Go ahead and ask your dealer. Tell us what they say. Back in early December I wanted to switch my order and add the Navigation system. Due to no fault of mine, that vehicle got a VIN # and couldn't be modified to add the Navigation system. The dealer response: let's order you a different vehicle, but it will have an early Feb. build date instead of early January as with the first order. I assume that the dealer would have suggested they add the Nav. to that first ordered car if they could. They never even brought it up. So, I'm thinking the answer to your question is no.

mark_lp · January 2004

Has anybody seen the official sheet for dealer prep questions? It usually has key set-up requests, DRL options etc...

saugatak · January 2004

"Like I told Saugatak before we straightened him out, the more time you spend making negative comments, the more I see that as a positive."

LOL, let me guess, you're in marketing. You should get into politics you're so good at spinning negatives into postiives.

Please check your Kool-Aid before swallowing. And please don't tell me this is a luxury car. Try sitting in a 7-series or an X5, those are BMWs luxury cars (i don't know what to call the Bangled 5-series).

tponchak, this is a brand new car that was eagerly anticipated. yet before it's officially supposed to go on sale on 2/1/04, it's already possible to get $1,500 off MSRP. i believe bmwbob when he says that unsold X3s are sitting on the lots because EVERYONE i know who has previously owned a BMW thinks this car is way too pricey for what it offers.

tponchak, after you have had the experience of owning as many BMWs as bmwbob, i'd bet that you'd have the same opinion as bmwbob's (although maybe you wouldn't feel it's a girley car).

you should also read blueguydotcom's analysis of how the x-drive sucks power out of the engine. i also felt it but was unable to figure out why the car would go dead on me. there are people on this board whose experience and analysis are so right on (and so much better than yours) that you should really listen to what they say.

the market has already given this car a thumbs down. you can argue with me and spout all the ridiculous spin you want, but it's clear that my initial assessment that BMW way overpriced this vehicle was right on.

it would not surprise me to see $2.5k off by june.

kdshapiro · January 2004

"the market has already given this car a thumbs down"

That is absolutely incorrect. It is true to say there are divided opinions. While I only took the X3 out on two drives, a third is coming up. I did not feel any lose in power and it rode like it was on rails on ice and snow.

The market has not said anything about the car. Sales will tell.

saugatak · January 2004

every X3 made will be sold, the quesiton is, at what price?

if you start seeing massive discounts on the X3, that's the indication that the market thinks this vehicle doesn't deliver enough value for MSRP.

it's already happened before the official start of sales on 2/1/04, so i don't see any possible interpretation other than that the market has given this one a thumbs down.

saugatak · January 2004

"I said outhandle not outperform because basically the x3 is 500 lbs heavier I don't expect it to blow by the TL or g35 but when you throw it on the curvy roads the x3 will make you forget that it is an SUV. When on a test drive I suggest you guys try to do some turning instead of just driving straight otherwise why bother with a bmw, just get a lexus"

um.. OK where do i start. first, take a physics course and learn about mass, speed and momentum. second, join tponchak in dodger stadium and learn how to really drive.

third, the slower you go, the easier it is to handle the car. the X3 is heavier than and has a weaker engine than both the G35 and TL. given how slow you were going in the X3 as compared to the speeds that can be achieved in the G35 and TL, i'm sure you FELT like you the handling was better, but whether the X3 actually outhandled the G35 and TL is still open to question.

in any case, if you feel that the X3 outhandled the g35 and TL, then that's fine and you're entitled to your opinion.

my opinion is that you're off your rocker if you think a 4,000 pound SUV can outhandle the G35 which is about 700 pounds lighter, much closer to the ground and has nearly 50-50 weight balance.

bmwbob27 · January 2004

saugatak:
I picked up my 325 wagon this evening and was talking to the general manager and sales manager. I noticed that the silver X-3 was sold. They stated that they "got all the money" on this one. (Even a blind hop finds an accorn once in awhile)So they caught a fish!!! The manager also said that he would take $2500 off MSRP on any of the other 5 X-3's in stock right now. He also said that he's thinking of putting 4 of them in the loaner vehicle fleet just to get them on the road for exposure. So,you are correct. You won't have to wait until June. Go for it now!!

bmwbob27 · January 2004

scotth6:
I hate to pee on your parade scott. But,if you think that your getting black carpet you are misinformed. No matter what color interior you order it will arrive with GRAY carpet. X-3's do not offer any other color carpet except GRAY!!! You might consider talking to your salesperson. Oh, please inform us when you find out. Thanks

kkl3 · January 2004

Weight balance on the X3 is 49.9/50.1 for the manual and 50.4/49.6 for the automatic.

Saugatak, why do you feel you have to insult people? Can't we have friendly discussion (even with differing opinions) without putting others down?

saugatak · January 2004

i don't think it's at $2.5k off in the east coast yet. snow around here has been so bad for the past 3 years that most people i know in the new car market are looking for AWD or 4WD, and i think that factor will keep prices up compared to SF.

besides, i don't need a new car until may of this year. i'll see how far prices have gone down on X3 then, and compare it to the G35 with the new interior and TL and make my pick then. the serious discounting and bargaining will occur when BMW starts giving dealer kickbacks to move these cars and that's when i'll jump into the market.

bmwbob27 · January 2004

We all remember the first X-3 that each dealer received in November. They were all Blue 3.0s with gray leather. Then a week later each dealer received a Black 3.0 with sand beige leather. The both have the same MSRP sticker on the widow that reads as follows:
base $36,300
metallic paint 475
premium package 2550
Steptronic trans. 1275
privacy glass 350
destination charge 695
total $41,645

The 6 recent arrivals for sale have the MSRP as follows:
base $36,300
metal ic paint 475
premium package 3300
Steptronic trans. 1275
privacy glass 350
destination charge 695
total $42,395

OK, do you notice anything???
BMW has the "BALLS" to RAISE the price of the premium package by $750!!! I double checked and the premium package is identical in equipment. Just an increase in price with nothing added.
Thought you all would like to know. They are having selling the X-3 and they must have thought that if it costs more, it's got to be better!!!
Now isn't that special. Go figure??

saugatak · January 2004

"Saugatak, why do you feel you have to insult people? Can't we have friendly discussion (even with differing opinions) without putting others down?"

With all due respect kkl3, if you take the time to read the posts, you'll find that the insulting goes both ways. Maybe it's easier to remember my trash talk b/c I have a way with words

With respect to the X3's handling abilities and weight balance, I agree that it handles well and I'm well aware that the X3 has close to 50-50 weight balance as do all other BMWs. However, it's still an SUV and is higher, longer and heavier than a comparable performance sedan.

With respect to your earlier post regarding HP and acceleration on a BMW, it's difficult to compare different vehicles' acceleration based on HP. For example, BMW enthusiasts will compare the 330 to the TL and say, despite the TL's 270HP, the 330 can keep up even though it only has 225 HP.

This is true, but discounts the fact that:

1) the TL is a bigger, heavier vehicle which slows acceleration ; and

2) the TL engine is actually smaller than the BMW 330 (3.2L vs 3.3L) and thus has smaller displacement and less low end torque.

Given the variance in car weight and engine size and thus displacement and low end torque, I find HP to be a pretty good benchmark and given a vehicle's size, I have an idea of how much horses are needed to power a car that size. The bigger and heavier the car and the smaller the engine will slow you off the line, but once you're already moving, the car with the extra HP will move faster.

Since I very rarely accelerate hard from a stop (hard on the engine and burns gas) and most of my hard acceleration is when I'm already moving (want to pass someone), I focus more on HP that stat is most useful to my driving style.

tidester · January 2004

The insults stop now.

tidester, host

lakshman · January 2004

I got the production # but when I go to the owners circle it says the color is Alpine white while I ordered jet black. I checked with dealer, he says they swapped my vehicle with another so that they can get mine sooner.

Did any of you have similar experience?

Guys, please take it easy.

kdshapiro · January 2004

If you are using MSRP as a predictor of market success go right ahead. Remember the G35, it sold at sticker for 3 minutes and then people were getting thousands off. Nobody in this range buys at MSRP, I won't and I didn't. If you buy an exotic car you may pay MSRP. But when dealers stick to MSRP I walk.

kyfdx · January 2004

The 330i has a 3.0 liter engine, not 3.3.

I think most of you are missing the point regarding the pricing of the X3. BMW has never been able to compete on price when compared to the Japanese luxury nameplates. The typical 325i has an MSRP of $35K-36K. BMW makes the X3 for people who want a BMW and an SUV. Look at the price of a 325xi and add about $1000-1500 and there is your pricing of the X3. They aren't building it to compete on price with the MDX,
RX330 or anything else like that. They are building it to capture the 3-series buyer who wants a small SUV rather than a sedan.

It usually comes down to whether you want a BMW or you don't. The X3 is no different than other BMWs. It usually comes out behind on a strictly monetary value basis. It seems to me they priced exactly where they had to, taking into account the pricing of the rest of their model lineup.

regards,
kyfdx

kdshapiro · January 2004

"The X3 is no different than other BMWs. It usually comes out behind on a strictly monetary value basis."

To me the RX, MDX and the like also loses on value. The fact they sell a lot of vehicles, like BMW doesn't make it the value of the century.

To me Hyundai is the leader in value mobiles. It thinks it's funny the thought on the comparo board, is if you want to make it to a million dollars buy an XT better value, than the BMW.

It's easy to see through this nonsense. If you want to make it to a million dollars you buy the cheapest thing you can affort, which will be tens of thousands less than the Subaru. To make it to a million, run don't walk away from Subaru and into the hands of your capable Hyundai dealer. Now there is value and real money saved toward your first million.

Of course, you may have your million already or be well taken care of. Then run don't walk into the hands of your waiting BMW dealer.

mamgt · January 2004

Some of the statements of the X3 selling for huge discounts and dealers not being able to move product are either hugely exaggerated or simply not true based on discussions I have had with a couple of dealers in the North East. I get this sense that some on this board are not really interested in the X3 and, for whatever reason, would like to see it fail. As others have said, we have been rehashing some of the same stuff for some time now and, although it made for some interesting reading at first, it's frankly becoming tiresome. I log onto this board to hear experiences from people who are either genuinely interested in the X3 or have bought one. Those who just want to trash it, please move on! I have a feeling others feel the same way.

kyfdx · January 2004

BMW really didn't make the X3 to compete with those other cars. Especially on price. It seems a strange comparison.. An X3 with a G35 or a TL.

Getting back to that horsepower thing. I'd check the car mags... I doubt that the TL is more than a tenth faster to 60 than the 330i. But, then again, those two don't really compete on price either, as the MSRPs are about $8k apart, comparably equipped.

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · January 2004

If the only people that frequented the board were people that bought one, or were thinking about buying one, then the board would die quickly. If a post irritates me, I try to ignore it. It takes all kinds, if you know what I mean. Plus, this would be a pretty one-sided discussion if it only involved owners...

regards,
kyfdx

mamgt · January 2004

Point well taken. I do enjoy a lively discussion as long as I feel it's coming from a genuine place. That's all.

saugatak · January 2004

kyfdx: that's right the 330 has a 3 liter engine. my bad. on pricing, let's see how the market reacts. IMO that's the best and most objective determination of price.

magmt: regarding sales, it really depends on what area of the country you're in. in the NY/NJ area, it's possible to get up to $1500 off MSRP. In other areas, it might be more, it might be less. Also, you have to take what dealers say with a grain of salt. They always say they're moving the product at MSRP. They're not going to open up negotiations by saying "We can't move these things, please make us an offer." The only way to really see if these cars are moving is to stop by the lot on a regular basis. If you see the same 5 cars after a month, it ain't moving.

kdshapiro · January 2004

"If you see the same 5 cars after a month, it ain't moving. "

Right on saugatak. However, I pass by my BMW dealer quite regularly and see a lot of the same cars month after month. Usually it's because they are part of the loaner fleet.

scotth6 · January 2004

BMWBOB is right my carpet is gray but the doors,
dash and trim are black and the carpet is dark so I am happy. You can try and burst my bubble and all the other people who have ordered one but I have a feeling you are only trying to get reinforcement for your bad decision. I really don't care if the X3 isn't moving off lots, I drove it , I liked it and it has all the features I want and the same for most of the people on this board. I own an X5 and I've owned a 325i, 328ci, 330cic, and 2 M3's and I don't want a 325 wagon or an X5 I want an X3. We don't bash your 325 wagon and we don't bash your X5 which I could easily do having owned them. You got what you want and we got what we want, your opinion is you like the X5, my opinion is I like the X3 and I have 45,000 on my X5 so I know the X5 well.

lakshman · January 2004

From what I have heard/read X3 is not selling as BMW expected it to but remember BMW's expectation was pretty high. They expected it to be selling in record number for a new entry.

When people think of BMW they do not think of an suv and when they think of SUV they cannot think of BMW. So, I understand the criticism about x3 but these people will have to look at the sales of x5. I guess that when X3s are on the road the sales will pick up.

Now, to my question... I have a confirmed production date of Feb. 8th (happens to be my b'day). When can I expect the delivery? I live in NJ.

glenberk · January 2004

I had a similar experience. Dealers get allocated a certain number of vehicles. Each vehicle allocated already has a preasigned production #, and preassigned paint color and options. Once the dealer gets a deposit, they can alter the color and options for a particular production #. The changes in color usually take 48 hours to show up on the website document after the dealer has made the change on their order computer. If you don't see it by then, have the salesperson double check their order computer information. They key is this: the paint and options can be changed for a certain production # only up until the time that a vehicle identification number (VIN) is assigned to that vehicle. In my case, the VIN was assigned about 2 weeks before its production date.

mamgt · January 2004

"They're not going to open up negotiations by saying "We can't move these things, please make us an offer."

You mean...it is unlikely they would offer $2500 off MSRP right off the bat?

lakshman · January 2004

When you log in to bmw owners circle. Do you see all your options as ordered?
I see none. I also sent a priority mail using the website.

ulep · January 2004

i dont see the options that i ordered in the bmw circle too. mabye its just like that.
they said that my build date was jan 26 but when i checked my order tracking. it was already awaiting transport by jan 24. and i think it will be 3 weeks after that before i get my x3.

ulep · January 2004

as the saying goes... you cant teach an old horse new tricks.

scotth6 · January 2004

My X3 was built over 10 days ago and is sitting at the port on the other side of the pond. I was told I won't see it for at least 3-4 weeks.

kernick · January 2004

someone posted: BMW has the "BALLS" to RAISE the price of the premium package by $750!!! I double checked and the premium package is identical in equipment. Just an increase in price with nothing added.

me: Well if you look back about a year, notice what the Euro : $ ratio was. The dollar has lost about a 1/3 of its value since then! So if BMW planned the price last year at $31K, they would now have to charge $41K to get the same number of Euros. Now since its made in Europe and probably mostly European sourced parts, BMW and any foreign manufacturer are taking serious hits in profit if they maintain the same price here.

gardencar · January 2004

...and that seems to offend some people. I noticed that some posters immediately jump down some one's throat if the person happens to think differently. Some people even resort to insulting each other. Okay, it's funny for the first couple of times, and then it just gets ridiculously repetitive. You start to wonder, don't these people have a life? My suggestion for the FEW posters who like taking pot shots at each other is this, "After the first couple of rounds of insults, be considerate and thereafter, E-mail your insults at each other."
This way, the rest of us who are seriously researching the vehicle or considering it, don't have to sift through all the rehashed garbage. So please, if you are going to bash someone's opinion and insult them or their tastes, be brave enough to include your e-mail address in your user profile.

gardencar · January 2004

Great explanation, made much sense. But do you think that international companies like BMW might hold on to their dollars or reinvest until the exchange rate becomes more favorable?

kernick · February 2004

I imagine they can't let the money sit idle. First they need to pay for the parts and labor they just used, and all the other overhead - insurance, admin, engr, R&D. Since the U.S. is a significant part of their business that would be a lot of $ laying around. BMW would then have to borrow money, and it's cheaper to use cash than borrow.
2nd: there's no guarantee the $ will come back anytime soon. What if it kept devaluing, they'd lose even more Euros.

The foreign manufacturers probably have been biting-the-bullet, hoping this devaluation of the $ is temporary. They want to maintain market share and keep the dealers going. If this current conversion rate holds for a while, I predict you'll see some fairly big price increases on imported models.
I guess with the X5 being made in the U.S., that may mean the 2 could get very close in price.

freddydijon · February 2004

I've been reading this board the past week and it gave me a lot of insight into buying the X3 and helped with the negotiations. When I first started looking last week, the dealer was giving me about $500 off MSRP. When I mentioned people in the NY/NJ area were getting approx $1,500 off, he went up to $1,250 and gave me an extra $500 towards my trade. I'll find out tomorrow how long it will take. Can't wait.

BTW - there was an article in the NY Times a few weeks ago about how BMW and other high end European car makers are hedging against further decrease in the value of the dollar. Apparently they have a whole department that just hedges different currencies. Some companies have completely hedged through I think 2007, while others have partial hedges for fewer years. I forgot what BMW did, but they definately have some hedge in place.

kdshapiro · February 2004

"I forgot what BMW did, but they definately have some hedge in place. "

I'm sure every company that is global has some type of currency risk mitigation effort in place. What that effort is, would depend on the business and where they are located.

gardencar · February 2004

I think kernick may have hit the nail on the head! One of the bigger reasons why I hesitated buying the X3, is because the X3 3.0 was so close in price to the X5 3.0, and I couldn't for the life of me, figure out why! The X5 outshone the X3 as far as quality of materials, plastics, leather, and specially the wood. The X5 definitely had the more expensive look and feel. But when comparing the prices, either the X5 seemed underpriced or the X3 seemed overpriced. Either way you looked at it, it seemed as if the X5 was the better bargain. In fact, this has been the subject of many a gripe from X3 posters.

Don't know why I didn't see the obvious before. BMW has no choice but to keep the X3 prices higher to keep their margin of profit, well, profitable. As kernick stated, the dollar has lost nearly a third of its value in relation to the euro. Since the X3 is made in Germany, prices need to be higher to make up for the fall of the dollar. The X5 on the other hand, is made in the US, so profits from European sales have risen at the same time, meaning X5 prices should remain the same or even fall. However, X5 prices have risen for '04.

I'm wondering if BMW feels X3 sales will be cannibalized by X5 sales if it kept X5 prices the same or lower than last year? I've heard of domestic and Japanese brands lowering the prices of new year model cars, but never heard of high end European makes doing the same.

kdshapiro · February 2004

gardencar - they are not similiar. The X3 starts at about $30K and can go to about $45/$46. The X5 starts at about $40K and goes to about $70K.

There is an overlap range, but in that overlap range the options are different. Although a fully optioned out X3 3L at $46 has more equipment than an X5 3L for $40K.

BMWs pricing always has a lot of overlap. Example, ZHP vs. E60 525. Every manufacturer has the same issue in pricing, eg Ford and their line-up of SUVs. What ultimately fits you depends on your needs, wants and budget.

"Japanese brands lowering the prices of new year model cars, "

I'm not sure that will ever happen. They will raise the price, include a feature or two as standard. Heck, I wish I could follow that strategy. Raise my prices to my clients, but throw in a freebie or two. Guarantees a better income stream even though something else is included.

gardencar · February 2004

Thanks for the very clear explanation. I may be wrong, but I think it's the fact that there is even an overlap that is a source of consternation for some people. Anyway, I know that this doesn't bother most of those who have already ordered their cars. As long as reliability is better than the first year X5's were, this car should be a scream to own and drive! Peace out and enjoy the Superbowl.

ashleyandersin · February 2004

I am thinking of buying a BMW X-3 2.5 and I am located in Los Angeles. I thought I had a good offer but after reading the boards here I am not so certain. Are dealers really offering $2500 off MSRP? My offer is listed below and I would appreciate any feedback.

If you know of a good price at a particular deal in CA, e-mail me - same user name on A O L .

Thank for you E-mail & Here is the Internet Deal.

Sticker Price on the X3 you requested: $35,520
Internet Price: $34,495
Res Value 15K 57% of sticker price & 12K 59%.
Money Factor: 2.4 This is the Best Rate BMW has.
Drive Off : $1414.99 (Lic Fees $274 + $525 Lease Fee + 1st payment)
Monthly Payment 12k $509.45 + Tax =$551.45
Both 3 YEAR 15K$527.45 + Tax =$570.99

lakshman · February 2004

I have a production date of 2/8/04 and was assigned along with the the production number. I understand that it takes 3-4 weeks from that to delivery.

I would like to find out when does the status change from On Order in the Owners circle to Scheduled for production. Any inputs are appreciated.

I hate to pay for the rental and I wish I get my x3 early!

ulep · February 2004

my x3 has been awaiting transport for almost a week and a half now. so i called my dealer. he said that it was suppose to be en route by this week and it will be delivered to our house by the end of feb to early march.
i have to ask the dealer if they could add some options themselselve to my car.

mark_lp · February 2004

The way I understand BMW's verbage, en route means its on the ocean or on the last leg of its journey to final port before dealer. Your car has left the factory but it would still be "awaiting transport". Any others feel free to correct me.

BTW, has anyone seen the dealer programming sheet yet?

lakshman · February 2004

What is a dealer programming sheet?

After my x3 arrives, I am going to be adding the alarm system and the carpets if they do not give it for free.

Regarding the carpets, the sales person said that they only have the non-rubber without the bmw name on it for the x3. Is it true? If they are going to give me what I get on walmart, I'd rather buy it directly. Also, is it too late to ask for free carpet as we already decided on the price.

ulep · February 2004

got my free carpet after the price was decided.

my dealer is willing to deliver the x3 to my house. how does the paper work go? and how can they program the keys and seats? can anybody share their experience with this sitation?

mamgt · February 2004

ulep: Unless I lived far away from my dealer, don't think I would want them driving my car any more than they have to besides test driving it.

lakshman: The carpet I'm getting is also non-rubber. Can't remember if it has the BMW logo or not. I also negotiated carpet after deciding on price. You can renegotiate everything until you give them the final balance. Either they'll just say no or you can consider walking away from the sale (if your deposit isn't too big). Most salespeople will give a little if you just mention you're an unhappy customer after talking to some other folks.

BMW X3

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