Cadillac STS/STS-V: What's New for 2007?

exalteddragon1 · April 2005

Its great that they make 100hp/liter. And they should advertise that! Anyway, I don't understand why they make something that off the gate is weaker than all of its competition. The audi has 450hp, and Mercedes has 465, and the bmw has 500!

This segment is all about bragging rights, the only thing they have is 100hp/liter.

Cadillac did the right thing by putting in a 400hp corvette engine in the cts-v, it came out 60hp ahead of the next best thing, the audi. Now GM has a 500hp V8 for the covette zo6, WHy not put htat in to the higer line Cadillacs? I don't think there is anything wrong with hot rod cadillacs having corvette motors!

Plus, at 500hp it would tie BMW for the top hp slpt and beat it in the torque curve! WHYGM! WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you culod use the money you saved by putting in the corvete motor by dveelopping the cadillac V12 and perhaps a special v8 or v12 for performance, like at least 5liters for v8 and 7 for v12.

GM is so close with these new cadillacs, dont mess up now!

blkcadillac · April 2005

The 440hp is good enough though I thought that the V would have atleast made 470 hp or so.

However look at BMWs V12 = 438 hp at 6000 rpm and 444 ft lbs of torque at 3950 rpm. How can the V10 (500hp) make more than the V12 over at BMW. Hell the ("The Mercedes has 465{that's 469 sir), and the bmw has 500!") HAS more hp the the (453 hp) ROLLS ROYCE PHANTOM!

1487 · April 2005

I'll tell you why, the new six speed cant handle more than 450hp so the LS7 engine will not work. It is really that simple. GM does not have an automatic than can handle more power than the SC Northstar is putting out. I dont think anyone in this segment cares about bragging rights. People who buy the STSV will buy it because its different. Obviously it will not outrun an M5 but I doubt the M5 is going to be a great everyday car. The E55 is already faster than the M5 will be because of its huge torque advantage. The way I look at it the STSV will offer than handling of the M5 with the civility of the E55. The M5 will probably go to 60 in about 4.4-4.5 and the STSV will probably be around 4.8-4.9secs. Not a huge difference. Remember, the M5 will have less than 400 lb-ft of torque.

exalteddragon1 · April 2005

The people who can plunk down 70+ K on a supercar probably want the best supercar, and in this crowd, its all about HP. Otherwise BMW would not waste there time making a V10 and mercedes would not make SPECIAL engines and blow them.

Because Cadillac is a new player, they needed to bow the competition out of the water. And I see your point about the tranny Here is a thought, why not put in the corvettes tranny untill they can make an auto to handle 500hp? Would that not be better?

Meybe not. Meybe ppl want the car to shift for itself in this class, even though it a performance machine. Another fix would be to bolster the existing 5 speed some more so it could handle 500hp.

Or better yet, GM could have waited untill they had al of the pieces right.

Its not a good sign that you are the slowest one right out of the gate. THe car does look awsome though. Hey, why did they not use the same wood trim here on the XLR-V, that would in there looks horrible. The STS-V wood is nice. Meybe they will have a package with it on the steering wheel too.

acenj · April 2005

Folks,

Any ideas on when the V6AWD will be available and pricing for a loaded one w/ Nav????

Aceman

rayainsw · April 2005

Given that as of last week, according to:
http://www.arifleet.com/production.html

"Cadillac STS

1SC/1SF/1SG Pkgs. are on hold
(MV3) AWD automatic 5-speed trans is on hold"

And there appear to have been severe constraints on AWD most of the model year - when it was NOT 'on hold'. Thus, I expect that the V6 AWD will be slow in appearing at your local dealer. Theoretically, it will be available for the 2006 model year. Whatever that actually means . . .

Pricing will likely be whatever you mean by 'loaded' now (build on Caddy's web site) plus the same premium commanded (?) for AWD on a 1SG. Unless Caddy has completely lost their minds and actually raise MSRPs for 2006.

- Ray
So very confused by so many things about the STS . . .

acenj · April 2005

Thanks for the info Ray. Being on a big time push to buy american sadly Caddy may have also lost a sale to infiniti, who seem to have flooded the market with V6AWD's to choose from at a less expensive price.

Its frustrating that there's a a american car otu there I want and its the one time that it's actually pricier than the competition.

UNREAL.

aceman

stsvcrazy · April 2005

Hey i'm new to this forum - But i've been recently looking for a sedan and Cadillac caught my attention during the Superbowl commercials. I really want a STS-V. I'm kinda confused. So i got some questions. When will it actually be availabe so that i can buy it? Now I've also got another question. I live in Michigan (lots of snow during winter) and my parents say I can only get a car that is all-wheel drive. My question to you - is all-wheel drive an option for the 2006 STS-V? I have been told by some people that the 2005 STS came with that option, but I haven't seen any signs of that option for the STS-V. Thank you

xkss · April 2005

The STS-V is only available with rwd.

The STS is available with awd. Get snow tires and have someone with snow experience teach you how to drive in the snow.

acenj · April 2005

Sorry if i asked this already but my head is spinning...
what's the 0-6 and 1/4 mile on both the engines?
anyone??

thx.

Aceman

sls002 · April 2005

Motor Trend did a V6 comparison including an STS. 0-60 was 6.8 seconds and the quarter mile was 15 seconds @92 MPH. The V8 with or without high performance axle gearing does 0-60 in 6 seconds and the quarter mile in 14.5 seconds @ 100 MPH or so. The high performance gears are only slightly faster, but fuel consumption is worse.

1487 · April 2005

How could Caddy build a car to blow the E55 and M5 out of the water? What you are asking for is impossible. You cannot blow a 469hp and 500hp car out of the water. If the STSv is the slowest car out of the bunch it is still better than anything being offered by Lexus, Jaguar, Acura or Infininit right now. They are not even playing n this league at this point in time. As I said before, I dont think the M5 is going to be a geat commuter car and many BMW fans are mad than the car will not have a true manual at launch. The true test of these cars would be on the track and I'm sure the STSv will hold it own there. It's hard to believe that people are complaining about 440 these days when there are only two sedans available ( or will be available) under $100K that have more power.

sls002 · April 2005

Yes, I think that the STS_v is designed for street use. The M5, while drivable on city streets, is not well suited for such use I think. I don't know if that is true, but that is my opinion. Until the STS_v is available for the magazines to test, it's overall performance is a guess. There is a limit to how much power a car can use. The 3 ton Bentley can utilize more power than a 2 ton car.

prophet · April 2005

After buying 5 STS's & SLS's over the last 10 years, I purchased a 2006 Infinity M35. Much more of a drivers car than any of the Seville's, and everything works!

carnaught · April 2005

prophet: Did you test drive and compare the Infiniti (note spelling, ( LOL) to the new STS? Why didn't you stay with a Caddy?

prophet · April 2005

Every STS/SLS I've owned had at least 2 electrical problems during the first year. My wife's Deville's were much better although they had their share as well. Nice cars but not worth the service hassle. The M35 Infiniti drives & runs like my BMW 530i without the cramped quarters.

pearl · April 2005

just a comment on some previous posts on this subject. "Back in the Day" you could buy almost any GM car at a base price and then add literally any option on the list, one by one. If you only wanted auto transmission, floor mats and power seats, you could do it. Today, most manufacturers, with Caddy being notable, make you take lots of stuff that you might not otherwise order just to get what you want. The result is $63+K if you want a STS AWD, for example. Why Cadillac does not see that they are shooting themselves in the foot with this approach is beyond me. Many of us waited with baited breath for the new STS, and were initially quite impressed. Then we found out about the options bundling and some chintzy bits on the interior and got turned off. In my humble opinion, Cadillac blew it on the STS. If they were looking in the 50-65K range on this car, they should have started by buying a few Audi's and ensuring that their interior was at least comparable. Then they should have ensured that people wanting certain key options did not have to "buy the farm" in order to get them. Caddy is not alone in this, but for a car as important as the STS, it is incredible that they set up sales to potentially turn away so many buyers.

carnaught · May 2005

Agreed. The bundling issue and the skyrocketing cost of the car in light of it is precisely why I didn't buy the STS.

jerrymcshane1 · May 2005

The STS is OVERPRICED to the "max." Plus, ONLY a current $1K rebate? Are you kidding me? They, Cadillac, are "eating" this car with over a 140 day supply inventory. Maybe somebody at Cadillac will "swallow" their giganic egos's and reprice this car via some REAL incentives.

bigmike5 · May 2005

Add to the above the fact that they will only accept $1K credit from using the GM card toward the purchase of an STS. I've got almost $3k in credit on the account but could only use $1K. That sucks too.

xkss · May 2005

The 184 hp BMW 525i is overpriced at $43,000.

The STS is the ONLY car in its class that is available with a limited-slip differential.

The new STS posted its best-ever sales last month.

3,541 STSs were sold.

erickpl · May 2005

has LSD's in their line, including their new GS.

bigmike5 · May 2005

Did I miss something in the brochure of the STS, or does this car not have a remote garage door opener in it. My wife's 00 Eldo did not have one as standard equipment, cost $105 for one to be installed, and I don't recall seeing one in the STS when I test drove it. Anyone got a definitive answer?

merckx · May 2005

That's typically what this option is called....It's extra on quite a few cars.

sls002 · May 2005

It is included in the luxury package on both V6 & V8's. I'm not sure if it is available otherwise.

jerrymcshane1 · May 2005

So did Mercedes, Infiniti, Lexus, BMW, etc., etc.. In other words, America is MORE spoiled, pampered, arrogant, self indulged, hypocritical, materialistic, etc., etc., now more than ever. NO middle class anymore. Either your rich or the "other." 50 million visits to lawyers offices in 04' in America. Why? M-O-N-E-Y. People adopting this "screw em' galore as long as I make out" mindset that now permeates America.

pearl · May 2005

I just checked out an STS 1SF (with Redline paint) and came up with a TMV of about six hundred bucks off MSRP (circa 59K). There is a current rebate of $1K to take it down to $58K. This seems insane. Is anyone out there paying anywhere near sticker for the STS, and if so, why? I think that the Edmunds TMV is not even close to accurate. Given the competition, the 140 day inventory, GM's problems, etc., it would seem that paying just over invoice would be more like it. Anyone have any thoughts on this one?

volvodan1 · May 2005

GM is trying to stay away from rebates on the Caddys. The STS has nothing to apologize for in regards to it's competition. It is one of the best. Why does it seem insane? If we were talking about the Deville, I would agree.

But this is one of the problems GM faces. Consumers think if there isn't $4,000 on the hood and buying at invoice that they are getting ripped off. They've been selling well for us. The STS is one of the best cars out there, but in the luxury market they are competing in, you can't just have a great car. You have to establish yourself. They are getting many new customers in, but the established Caddy customers have been hearing about the wonders of front wheel drive for 2-3 decades and are hesitant to switch back. Maybe that's good? Keep the traditional customer buying the Deville and the rest can choose from the newer models.

Caddy has been at the value end of the luxury spectrum for a while. Most people still "ooh and aah" over Caddys. But the people who actually buy the $50, $60, $70,000 cars have not for a long time.

Caddys cred is coming back. If they continue moving forward and don't sit on their hands for 5-7 years. They may be a few rungs higher in prestige by the end of the decade.

sls002 · May 2005

I don't know what the STS costs to build. However, at $60,000 I think it is very profitable. I don't think the STS is much more expensive to build than the CTS, although the bodies are somewhat different. The base STS V6 is priced at near $40,000, and the V8 is probably not any more expensive than the V6, so is there really $20,000 worth of extras in a 1SG model?

hondacbr1k · May 2005

I just went to look at an STS yesterday and there is a great lease promo..$399 month for 36 months $2139 down. That is not a bad price at all. I pay $399 for my 2004 Maxima and that car retails for about $28K. I rented an STS with a V6 in VA and I was very impressed. I'm getting one!

hondacbr1k · May 2005

I too think the M35 is an impressive car...but I actually have the same car. It's a 2004 Maxima SE. The cars are built on the same platform and have the same engine (except a few HP difference) but the Max is FWD and the M has a much nicer interior. I am getting the STS because I couldn't get past the fact that I would essentially be driving the same car if I got the M as the Maxima. I also think the STS looks more distinctive.

volvodan1 · May 2005

1. I would imagine the 3.6 is cheaper to build. The 3.6 is not only used in the STS, but also CTS, Lacrosse, G6, Rendezvous, etc. The STS version of the Northstar is only shared w/ XLR and SRX. The Deville version is vastly different because of FWD.

2. Is there $20,000 worth of extras? For that buyer I can see the value. Personally, the STS w/ luxury package would sticker for $43-$44,000 and gives you heated-memory seats and 6 CD changer among a few other things. That may be the best value in that price range. For $20,000 you get V8, DVD Nav, Magnaride, HID's, sunroof, Bose 5.1 surround sound, heated and ventilated front seats w/ heated rear seats, and 18" wheels. I'm sure I'm leaving a few things out. For many drivers it is worth it, but not all.

rayainsw · May 2005

"I would essentially be driving the same car if I got the M as the Maxima"
The M is built on an enlarged version of the G35 platform (RWD) - Maxima is FWD - and used to share a platform with the Infiniti I30 and later I35.
- Ray
Driven 'em all . .

sls002 · May 2005

1. Yes, a few hundred dollars more perhaps. The FWD 3.6 is probably also different from the RWD version.

2. Yes there are additional features. However, they may only cost a few thousand to put on the car, so the profit margin is perhaps more than 100%.

I, for one, am hoping for some RWD's from either Buick or Pontiac in a reasonable price range. I expect to drive my FWD Seville for a few more years, so GM does have time to develope RWD in the lower price ranges. I also expect the STS to revise its packaging in the future, although the 2006 model seems to remain more or less as is. The CTS has changed its packaging since 2003.

I see nothing wrong with Cadillac charging as much as possible for the STS, however, it is out of my price range unless there are incentives in excess of $10,000.

volvodan1 · May 2005

I'm not sure if the 3.6 RWD is that different from the FWD version. I would think they made sure it was compatible for both when designing it. The FWD Northstar was not intended for the RWD applications it is being used for now, so it had to be modified heavily.

The optional packages always give the manufacturer more profit. I don't think it is quite as much as most think, but they make money there. For $50,000 you can get the V6 loaded, so the Northstar is the big mark-up item there. But I think that's smart. 9 out of 10 of my customers who want the V8 would NEVER consider the V6. There is status in the V8 and they want the top of the line.

sls002 · May 2005

Well, the LaCrosse engine is rated at 240 hp, down from the CTS's 255; the torque is 225 lb-ft, down 10% from the CTS's 252 lb-ft; clearly there are differences. The northstars are available as crate engines, the FWD version is $5000, while the RWD VVT is near $4000. Certainly, one would expect the V6 to be somewhat cheaper to build, but I would say that the cost difference is near $1000 at most.

The magnetic ride is about $1500 on a Corvette...
HID headlights are $500....
Sunroofs are $1200...
The other odds and ends are worth something, but for $10000 more than the luxury package V8, I think that the premium luxury performance package probably only costs $5000 more to build.

volvodan1 · May 2005

There may be more differences between the FWD and RWD 3.6's. Maybe, maybe not. I would think that the power differences are more from differentiating the Caddy from the Buick. The SRX has 260 horses.

Like I said, the options are where a chunk of the mark-up are.

sls002 · May 2005

Cadillac's website currently states 255 hp for all of the 3.6L V6 engines, including the SRX. At the time that the 3.6 was going into production, there was some expectation of getting 260 hp out of it. However, that did not hold up.

The point that I have been making is that the STS appears to be priced at a high profit level, particularly the V8. There is nothing wrong with that, but in the long run I think they will lose sales.

volvodan1 · May 2005

You are right. Our initial training info had 260. It is 255.

The loaded V8 is probably selling for a proportionally higher profit. Maybe Caddy should have done what Lexus did and price them artificially low to establish (or in Caddys instance, reestablish themselves).

sls002 · May 2005

GM is currently not profitable. They need to make money where they can. However, I think that most of the car lines are priced a bit high. The LaCrosse, for example is quite expensive when you get the top of the line model - priced in the $30,000 to $35,000 range. That is really quite high. The STS is priced quite reasonably compared to the BMW 5-series. However, the 5-series is highly thought of. There are some other quite good cars that are cheaper. Some posters here are looking at and buying the Infinity M45.

volvodan1 · May 2005

The STS is actually priced pretty decently. The CTS may have been the first GM car to be priced right starting off and little rebates even 3-4 years later.

Yeah. I think they could turn a lot around by taking LaCrosse, Malibu, etc. and actually pricing them closer to transaction prices. They are supposed to do that but I have yet to see that. The HHR looks to be priced well. We'll see on Cobalt.

Imagine 4-cyl G6 starting at $15,995. LaCrosse at $19,995. Top of the line LaCrosse at around $30-31. That might catch peoples attention. Oh, Well!!!

rayainsw · May 2005

"Maybe Caddy should have done what Lexus did and price them artificially low to establish (or in Caddys instance, reestablish themselves). "

Without the "maybe", I agree 100%. They should have done (should do) exactly this.

Now I am only 1 (potential) customer. But my sense is that (today) GM needs sales. Caddy has a good product here. (Other GM divisions really are struggling  I think I saw Pontiac with 30+% off vs. last year-to-date as of the end of April.)

I will be very interested to see if Caddy offers larger rebates in the coming months - and if they address the (my) base price / MSRP issue and / or the option availability issues for 2006.

Well, again  they are issues for me. And (driving a 2003 Lincoln LS V8 Sport right now) I would have thought Id be on their radar as a potential STS conquest sale . . . Apparently not.

- Ray
Obviously not nearly as smart as the Marketing Geniuses at GM . .

sls002 · May 2005

The May issue of Automobile had a comparison including the V8 STS priced a nearly $67,000. They did not think it worth that, since the Mercedes E500 was a much nicer car at thousands less. The BMW 545 was also not thought much of, but was cheaper than the E500. They did like the Lexus GS430 better than the E500, and it was priced lower than the 545. However, the top rated car was the Audi A6, priced thousands less than the Lexus, and $10,000 less than the STS. I do not think that the STS is priced anywhere close to reasonable. However, Cadillac may have a reason for limiting sales of the perfomance models by pricing them way out of line.

pat · May 2005

A tv reporter is hoping to talk with someone who wants to purchase a Cadillac. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com with your daytime contact info by May 31, 2005.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com

easyrider300m · May 2005

just wait till interest rates go up another 2 or 3 percent. The automobile industry will be hurting as cars sit on the lots longer. I bet there may be many STS vehicles left on dealer lots when the 2006 comes out. Then you will see some steep rebates if you want to buy the 2005 model. If you plan on keeping it for at least 6 years, you won't get hurt as bad on depreciation than if you only will keep it for 3 years. Caddys and Lincoln tend to have a very high depreciation rate. You can probably pick up an STS for cheap money in 3 years when the leases are up. And if the economy goes south, some lease buyers may not be able to keep up their payments and their cars will be repossessed. A brand new model in high demand always sells at premium prices. Just wait 2 or 3 years and the deals will be out there.

I drive a 2000 300M that I purchased new in March 2000 and it has all the toys including nav and HID headlights. I paid $29,500 after adding in the add-ons that I purchased and installed after buying the car. Runs and still looks like new with close to 90k miles on the clock. I will keep it for at least one more year and then will probably consider buying the newly redesigned Avalon Limited as I consider it a much better value and it depreciates less compared to the STS. But I do like the STS more than any car out there right now. But to get all the toys I want with the v6 model, I would be looking at about $55k. I can get the Avalon for about $35k after discounts and it will be loaded to the max with HIDs, Nav, pushbutton door opening and starting, remote start, climate and radio controls on the steering wheel and a 280hp v6 engine with 5 speed manumatic tranny. And the Av gets 22 city, 31 hwy mpg yet still does the quarter mile in 14.9 seconds and 0 to 60 in 6.5 seconds according to Motor Trend. And you also get Toyota dependability.

If you have the bucks to blow and don't mind overpaying for a brand new model, go out and buy one. Life is short. The STS looks to be a fantastic driving car with all the creature comforts. I wouldn't mind buying one myself except that the price, although I feel I could afford it, is a bit high compared to the competition. But top of the line BMWs and Mercedes will set you back even more. Great car ---just a bit too high priced for my tastes.

bosshogg · May 2005

My Dear Gravolvodan,

Thank goodness that most people in this forum sound like they are "feelin" the New Cadillac STS, so I can keep my blasting to a minimum. The price point on the new STS is better than ever!!!! which is exactly what GM-Cadillac had intended to do with this all new designed flagship vehicle. I challenge you to get up... get off that computer of yours and actually take a dr-walk down to those local dealers that you are so quick to mention and actually price these vehicles....What you will find is the new STS is priced well below the competion the Lexus, Mercedes, Audi and the BMW I'm talkin about same class vehicles of course. I will even take it 1 step further, euippment to euippment and option for option the Cadillac STS is the best value in its class. Meaning gravolvo that you get more bang for yor buck. Please try and prove me wrong. I can save you some time though, Im staring at a current comparison guide as I speak. Now a word to my friends the ones that are considering the new STS. My advice to you is get one now! the prices will be going up for the 06 model yr. Remember when the 02 Escalade came out, (I remember I was selling them). MSRP was 52k and change. x^)

easyrider300m · May 2005

"Im starting at a current comparison guide as I speak."

not sure if you would consider it the same class of cars, but for bang for the buck I would like to get your opinion of the new Avalon. It has an all new body, new engine, and new interior. To me it appears more luxury than sport, but has some nice sporty touches like the wheels with 17 inch Michelins, the dual exhaust, buckets, wood trim, and loads of toys. It maxes out at about $37k list. The handling I am sure is not on par with the STS but it is adequate for normal type driving. It's a bit softer ride than the STS but it's liveable--much better than previous Avalons. And it has the Toyota reliability and lower depreciation. The reviews I have read have been very positive and they often compare it to the Lexus in features and ride quality. And you'll pay about 18k less than the STS for a comparably equipped vehicle.

I drove the STS recently at a show where you could drive all different brands and models of cars all in the same afternnoon on a course they set up. I was very much impressed with the ride, handling, and level of luxury and sportiness. But I have a hard time paying over $40k for a new car--not that I can't afford it, but I guess I'm practical. I also like the BMW 530i and would like to see a comparison done between the STS and the BMW. The Avalon is probably not in the same class as the STS but it's pretty nice for the price.

sls002 · May 2005

The car magazines have published a number of comparison tests with the STS and BMW's included. My comments above have been based on what I have read in various magazines regarding the STS's price level.

The Avalon is a lot of car for the money, but it is not a sports sedan.

1487 · May 2005

This car shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence as the STS. They appeal to differnt buyers and the STS looks much better. The Avalon is competition for Buick, not Cadillac. If you compare the Avalon to any V8 luxury car in the STS' class it will be a value at $37K fully loaded. It's silly to single out the STS for a comparison. Try comparing it to a $63K 545i and it look even cheaper. If you think the STS is a rip off consider a 225hp 530i (soon to be 255hp) for $44K with no options. That is ridiculous. BMW and MB continue to make their base model luxury models without equipment that should be standard. It's hard to believe you can pay over $40K for a car and not get a CD changer or leather standard.

bosshogg · May 2005

Gentlemen I'm Glad we are on the same page. As for the Toyota Avalon comparison, I'm in complete agreement with 1487 on this one. As nice as the Toy. may be.. its def. not in the same class as the STS......the CTS would be more in line to compare with that vehicle. And with that said, let me also say this American Luxury vehicles are back my friends!!!!, the days of saying "I wouldnt buy an American car" are coming to an end. It takes time to get rid of a bad stigma. But let it be known that I would put an STS, CTS, SRX, the new DTS and Escalade up against any import vehicle out there!!!!!!! bold statement? not really.... what would you like to compare: value, reliability, styling, engine performance guys its all there 100k mile tune ups, 150k coolant changes, 5 to 8k mile oil changes (depending on the driver and conditions) timing chains rather than belts did u know that every new Cadillac out right now runs on Reg unleaded gas not to mention: American cars always have rebates and Cadillac cars and trucks are holding there value more now than ever........ (shew) I mean I could go on and on. All you non-belivers out there do yourself a favor Dont sleep on GM vehicles and please dont even think about sleeping on Cadillac if your in the Lux. Performance Mrkt.

Boss X^)

Cadillac STS/STS-V: What's New for 2007?

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