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Cadillac STS/STS-V: What's New for 2007?
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Comments
The new RWD STS is a sports sedan. With V6 a nicely equipped STS can be had for under $45000. A base Deville with minimal options to make it into a respectable Cadillac, runs nearly $50,000. For that you do get a V8.
What gives?
The salesman I talked with about the STS also stated that the 8 gets better gas mileage than the 6. I can believe that, as the wife's Eldo with the Northstar engine has gotten 30 m.p.g on our longer road trips pushing 70 mph. My 6 cylinder Chrysler 300M only gets 26-27 in the same kind of driving.
The V6 has a 3.42:1 axle ratio standard with no optional ratio, while the V8 comes standard with the 2.73:1 gears. The 2.73:1 axle is very similar to the 3.11:1 "axle" ratio for the FWD Cadillacs with the "base" northstar V8. The FWD base engine is EPA rated about 2 MPG better than the "high output" northstar's, which have 3.71:1 gearing.
Or meybe they could just Supercharge the LS2 or LS6.... can anyone say 500 across the board!
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article- - _id=8720&page_number=8
Another question that I have is about the mileage rating. I've noticed that the highway mileage of the V-6 is 2 mpg less than that of the V-8. Why is that.
Final question: do both engines require premium fuel? Thanks........
"If the vehicle is left running it will automatically shut off
after 10 minutes unless a time extension has been
done."
- Ray
Thinking I'd not want it to run even that long un-attended . . .
You can read about the mileage issues in earlier posts of this thread. The V-6 uses a short 3.42 axle ratio which forces the engine to rev higher in the range thereby increasing fuel consumption. This was done to give the base STS Cadillac appropiate thrust despite the weight of the car. The standard V-8 STS uses a tall ratio of 2.73 which lets the Northstar turn slow. Combined with the extra thrust of the V-8, it can move the car with less effort. AWD uses a 3.23 axle and the Peformance Package uses the same 3.42 as the V-6. I'm assuming the 3.42 teamed with the N-star will get worse mileage than the V-6.
V-6 needs regular while Northstar needs premium because of 10.5 compression. Northstar will take regular but produce less HP and won't be as efficient. Hope this helps
Also - according to GMVIS, 1SF V8 = 3.23.
- Ray
Still waiting to see postings of "real world" 2005 STS V8 fuel mileage . . .
The Vette is coming with 500 Horses on the Z06 model, being released around the same time as the STS V and XLR V...
The Premium Luxury Performance package RPO code 1SG has 3.42s (GU6)
The Luxury Performance package RPO code 1SF has 3.23s (GU5)
The Luxury package RPO code 1SE has 2.73s (GU2)
How will the vehicles with 3.23s or 3.42s obtain the same or close to fuel economy of the models with 2.73s?
Wish I could order a loaded car with the 1SG package with the 2.73s.
As discussed above, I share this concern / skepticism.
My guess is that 2.73 cars could obtain something close to the EPA highway fuel economy - but the 3.23 and 3.42 cars could not.
Just my 0.02 gallons worth . .
- Ray
Interested to see if any owners post actual results . .
The AWD V8 is rated 22 highway. The SRX is rated 20 AWD, 21 RWD. The V6 is better but the SRX's V6 axle ratios are not the same as the V8's. The V8 should use more fuel than the V6, which is rated 24 highway.
In the real world, it will depend on how you drive the car. My SLS gets around 28-29 MPG on the highway when I limit my cruising speed to about 70 MPH on the interstates and the speed limit (usually 65) otherwise. I suspect cruising 75-80 would drop the mileage down to something nearer 25 MPG.
STS. Does anyone know how the sales are going ?
It would be interesting to find out if all the
hype will match sales......
From the manual:
"If the vehicle is left running it will automatically shut off
after 10 minutes unless a time extension has been
done."
- Ray
Thinking I'd not want it to run even that long un-attended . . .
I was told at the San Diego Auto show that it will not leave without the Fob.. so if some thief gets in, you can lock him in and let the cops come for their dude
...
I do not know whether its true or the sales guy was just pitching to impress us
It seems that it's a pretty popular car.
I'm looking @ the 6 cyl, Lux Perf Pkg....
MSRP of $49,950 or thereabouts. Got one dealer to price it at 200 over invoice, at 46,500.....
I've never leased a car before, and am considering doing so this time around. Where's the negotiation price in the lease, or do work to get the total purchase price down, that will ultimately trickle down to the residual.....
thank you!
I thought I remembered a situation similar to the STS V8 w/multiple final drive ratios and different EPA HWY ratings.
I was near my local Pontiac dealer on Sunday, so stopped in for a few minutes.
The Grand Prix GTP has the exact same mechanical drivetrain with or without the Competition Group Option Package (WS6). S/C V6 4-speed automatic.
The only drivetrain difference is a final drive ratio of 3.29 vs. 2.93 without the CompG. And very little additional equipment that would potentially add weight.
The EPA HWY number is lowered by 1. (28 to 27 / CompG)
This is approx. a 12% final drive change.
The difference between the 1SE (and I believe the 26 MPG rating here may be reasonable) and the 1SG is approx. 25%. 1SE to 1SF (I have driven both of these) is approx. 18%.
I don’t see how it is possible for the V8 STS with that difference in final drive ratio (plus additional equipment = additional weight) can still achieve 26 MPG.
So – are 1SF and 1SG stickers still showing Hwy = 26??????
- Ray
Still confused . . .
The additional 100 + HP added to the motor would not have been cheap. Adding the supercharger was accompanied by intercoolers and various internal changes, such as reduced bore and compression ratio.
The upgrade to the 6-speed automatic – again, not cheap. (But may prevent a Gas Guzzler Tax - as the AWD V8 faces???)
The Sport Buckets with adjustable bolstering are likely more expensive.
The larger wheel and tire package clearly is more expensive.
The Brembos are quite expensive. (As aftermarket, I have seen $4K+ for 4 wheel upgrade ‘kits’ – plus installation . . .)
The suspension ‘tweaks’ require developing (and stocking) another set of part numbers.
All this adds up.
I would personally prefer to be able purchase a 1SF or 1SG STS and / or a STS-V withOUT the Nav system, for instance, as it is just not worth $2K + / - for my use.
But that seems v. unlikely.
Setting that issue aside, and presuming that the STS 1SG is indeed ‘worth’ almost $63K, I see the STS-V (based on specs – and having driven 2 ‘lesser’ STS-s) as worth $75K - ish.
But then, I am not quite in the target market for this version – today.
- Ray
Not likely to be able to ‘swing’ $75K for a vehicle – today . . .
Before I saw the actual pricing of the STS and the Option Groups, I'd have agreed with you.
Caddy now however seems to be committed to some sort of "premium pricing" strategy.
I do not believe that they have earned it - yet.
But that may just be me . . .
We'll see.
- Ray
Thinking that at $70K less typical US luxury nameplate negotiations could = a reasonable price for the STS-v . . .
Hence the discussion here, I presume.
OTOH, production is scheduled for several months from now - and final pricing will not likely be set / published for a while . . .
Many things that affect pricing could change.
- Ray
Glad that, at any price, Caddy is producing such a cool vehicle . .
Would you click ont the "Feedback" link at the top of the page and report this with all the details you can think of? That would be very helpful, thanks!
The Jag S-Type R includes some rather expensive items over the “regular” S-Type 4.2 – Active Suspension and Brembo brakes.
Here is my analysis:
Jag S-Type R MSRP = $58,995 (including dest.)
Jag S-Type 4.2 – MSRP = $51,330
Plus Sport Package,
Heated Seats
and Xenons (each standard on S-Type R) + dest. =
MSRP = $54,370
Thus the supercharged motor PLUS the CATS adaptive suspension PLUS the big Brembo brakes cost an additional $4,625 - installed (so to speak). (My understanding is that neither CATS nor the Brembos are available on the “regular” 4.2.)
So – assuming that the brakes and the CATS would only retail for $1,000 each (HA!) the supercharged 4.2 costs (at MSRP) $2,625 more. . .
[In fact, I believe that given the development and manufacturing costs of such a suspension – in limited numbers – and the costs of a set of Brembo brakes - this really indicates that they are almost GIVING AWAY the upgrade to the supercharged motor.]
The S-Type R MSRP was reduced over $4K for 2005 – with no ‘de-contenting’.
The STS-v clearly also includes other (some quite expensive) things besides the supercharged motor. And Caddy has apparently chosen not to market it as a stand-alone option. Much as the S/C motor is not available as a stand-alone option on the S-Type Jag.
If I could arrange my finances to afford one . . .
- Ray
Not in this market, today – or likely this year. . .