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I previously ruled out GM (no side curtain or side impact air bags) the Quest (poor initial quality in 2004 model and one had to get leather seats to get the front side airbags), DC (no front side air bags available, and power sliding doors needed for side curtains).
I had 3 main requirements: 1) rear AC, 2) bucket seats (not a bench seat) in the 2nd row, and 3) side curtain and front side air bags. This left only Ford, Toyota, and Honda.
The base model CE from Toyota did not offer the air bag options, So the next model up (LE), with an option package had an MSRP 27K ... likely could be had for 25K. Honda's 2005 base model (LX) had all 3 features, and MSRP of 25.5K, likely could be had for 23K. Ford offered the Freestar SES (had to add side curtain and rear bucket seats options) at MSRP of 30.5K. After test driving a left over 2004 Ford (built in Jan 2004) that had 20 miles on it, I was told I could have it for the mid 18's as I walked away. I suspect it could be had for 17.5K. This price includes 7K in rebates (6K + 1K FMC).
We drove the Ford 15 miles. It drove OK and my Wife was interested (though she was hesitant about buying another Ford). The engine was loud and rough (I swear there was a loose part on it in the parking lot). There was a piece of trim loose on the bottom of the steering column. Otherwise the big drawback of the Ford is how low the 3rd row seat sits. It reminds me of a jump seat or rumble seat (in other words, something that was meant to be used twice a year).
Then we were off to the Honda dealer, and we both thought it was a big step up from the Ford, both in terms of power, handling, and styling. At this point we ruled out Toyota ($2K more) but I talked my wife into driving the Mercury (twin of the Ford) next since I had seen ads that the mid trim level Monterey could be had for $20K (MSRP $34K). The base model (MSRP 30K) did not offer the airbags. We drove a Mercury that had leather and power everything and heated seats. But it did not ride and drive as well or as quietly as the base model Honda.
I never tried to get a final price on the Mercury but I told the manager that I was looking at under 20K. I had been to the same dealer 3 months earlier and they still had the same seven 2004 Monterey's on the lot!
We ended up buying the 2005 Honda base model (LX). Sure there is no power doors/seats and no leather, but the rear seat is "full size" and also had 60/40 split Vs no split for the Ford. The engine has 255 HP vs 200 for the Ford, and better gas mileage too. The design of the interior on the Honda is a notch above the Ford. It is clear that Ford designed the Freestar on a budget (old engine, only a partial interior re-design).
Who should buy the Ford? If you have small children (none over the age of 7 when you buy it) then the Ford could be the price leader. There is no reason you can't get a leftover 2004 Ford for $15K or $16K (S or SE model) or 17.5K (SES). But no teenager or adult could ride in the back for more than 15 minutes (knees in the chin). The Freestar line is priced 5K too high (MSRP wise) and even then it is still over priced.
Who should buy the Mercury? I suspect no one. At the higher price, the Toyota and Honda out class it, and Mercury is no longer known for minivans. I predict Mercury will drop the minivan before Ford does, simply due to being a low volume model in an already low volume name plate.
Good luck to all!
Very informative post. Can you enlighten me on how you arrived at these prices. They're lower than invoice-minus-rebates. BTW, can one do better than invoice-minus-rebates on the 05's? I know there's the hold back, but how does the dealership make money if they gave you that?
The 17.5K for the SES was my estimate of what I could get the SES for that was offered to me at "mid 18's" while I was standing in the parking lot. I did not try to get the best price since I was not planning to buy. The S and SE pricing are estimates of what these lower trim models should sell for (in my opinion) given the SES pricing. In retrospect, the pricing on each 2004 trim model would depend on how many were leftover in your area, and your negotiating strategy.
I have no info on 2005 pricing. I think very few are being built given the glut of 2004s.
In visits to 4 dealers I never saw a 2004 that was built later than March 2004 ... did they shut down the factory for 5 months? And every 2005 I saw was built in Sept 2004.
We had started looking at 2002-2003 Grand Caravans, but needed the quad seating. When we found one, the dealer wouldn't go below $17K. So, a 2004 Freestar for just over $1K more, seemed like a decent deal. The Freestar is not without it faults, but for the price we can overlook them. Now, if I was buying a 2005, the price difference between the competition isn't that large. In that case, we would probably be driving a Grand Caravan or Odessey.
I just wanted to say that we recently picked up a very stale 2004 Mercury Monterey (base) for $18.5k - 11.5k off MSRP. I am very happy with the vehicle, really like the new Mercury grille (Montego/Monterey et al.). Vehicle is very powerful, comfortable and exactly what we needed. Considered a used (2 year old) Dodge or 4 year old Honda (didn't want to get much above what we paid for the Merc.), but liked the visibility out of the Ford/Mercury product better than the D.C. twins. A little annoyed that the fuel economy is so low (traded in a VW Bug TDI diesel that got over 40MPG, so this will be a change in more ways than one). Anyway, I think the differences between the varoius minivans are real, but way overblown...especially considering the price I was willing to pay.
Thanks for your time,
Eric S.
Van had right at 14K miles on it and was able to get it for a little over $16K along with right at TMV value for my trade. Also upgraded man. warranty to 6 yr/75K PremCare for just under $1300.
They still had a leftover 2004 new SES that we looked seriously at for $17.5K (after incentives) but we liked the 4.2L engine, rear audio system (along with steering wheel controls), automatic lights, and center console on the SEL.
Had another deal working for a used '04 SEL for just about the same bottom line at another dealer (they had offered a little more for the trade to go with a little more on cost) although this one was "certified" and they had offered the same warr. upgrade at $1000 inst of $1200. This van had 24K miles on it and felt certified was not worth giving up 10K miles, esp. since I was upgrading warranty anyway.
We chose the Freestar because we really liked the fold away third seat, roominess,and the fact that the second row captain's chair fold completely out of the way to get to the third row (and can be driven while folded). I also liked that we were upgrading to a Ford warranty instead of some 3rd party vendor that may or may not be there tomorrow (first time I have ever extended a warranty - don't know if it was a good idea or not).
Had looked seriously at '04 used "certified" Mazda MPVs that were comparable in cost, but just don't compare in room. Other vans we looked at (Ody and Sienna) you had to get a much older van to get in to the same price range. Didn't like the Venture because it seems to fall apart at 60K and we like to keep cars longer than that (although we really liked the 8 pass seating) and the used D/C/P vans we did not like because of the stationary third seat that really cuts down on cargo capacity even folded down (who wants to take that beast out when you have to go to HD?)
Hopefully, we made a good decision, although it sounds like the consensus is a little mixed from reading the boards before and after my purchase.
Was this in the sales cubicle? The one with the phone permanently turned "on" so that the sales staff can listen in from the manager's office?
Hey, it's been known to happen :-)
Congrats on the Freestar!
Steve, Host
When I have gotten up to do this before, some salesmen look at you crosseyed and suggest the wife come over to the desk - not here!
Ford is giving up on minivans in the U.S., but the situation is different in Europe. Although the current Galaxy was developed together with Volkswagen AG, its replacement is being prepared in-house."
Ford Unveils European Minivan Prototype (Inside Line)
Steve, Host
Unfortuantely, some U.S. consumer's have a perceive biased against minivans, so next generation of Ford minivans will be more about "Utility vehicle" than using the minivan wording... Sort of how the station wagon Freestyle, is penned "Crossover".
Then came the Freestar. Car and Driver ranked as fifth out of five in their comparison test, and in the edmunds comparison test, the Freestar "finished dead last without any hope of finishing higher". The reasons given were a steep price, a lack of feature content, an underpowered engine and poor build quality.
Are these things true? Does anyone who owns a Freestar agree with these things? Is the build quality really that bad, or is this all being exaggerated?
There are very big discounts available right now on this vehicle ,making it WAY less expensive then all the rest.
However, the rear seats in the '98 is much superior to the new Freestar - since the Freestar offers the 3rd row seats which folds flat in the floor, and the seat is too low for adults, and so is the second row seats.
Except for these few things, the Freestar is much better in every way than the '98 model. Fit & finish, quality of materials, and quality of powertrain, sound system, NVH and more.
The best answer for your question is very simple: Take a test drive.
Ford installed an AM/FM/6 disc Cd player that operates stereo speakers, but they only installed front speakers in the front doors. Older vehicles have back speakers for the stereo sound, and ability to turn off back/front speakers.
People in the way back seat can not hear AM/FM/ 6 Disc changer with the 2005 Freestar.
This van only gets 20 MPG highway.
1997 Winstar got 25 MPG.
Not sure about mileage, but since curb weight increased very much since 1997, and so hp and torque, I guess it's normal.
Also, reverse sensing system will be available on ALL models, not just on the higher-end ones; tire pressure monitor will also be standard om all trims; and some more minor changes.
http://www.fordaxz.com/2006%20Ford%20Freestar.htm
i have a 98 windstar with trans trouble
thanks
I know it's been a while since this post, but I was wondering if you could let me know how much you paid for the Odyssey LX? I'd appreciate it. We're getting very close to puchasing a van, and are gathering pricing information on various brands.
We'd like to keep this discussion about the Freestar (features, driving experiences, etc.).
Thanks!
vdotmatrix@gmail.com
Thanks,
JAL