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Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's OK, maybe just one step behind. Not terrible, though.

    -juice
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    and Ford needs it to be...
  • fbcjrfbcjr Member Posts: 19
    Ok, I've looked at all the wonderful pictures that have been posted, and I still don't see the problem. I can see the differences in the doors and greenhouse between the Fusion/Milan and the Zephyr just as easily as I can see the differences in the Acura triplet. ANT said that the Zephyr shared only the roof and that is indeed what it looks like to me. I guess appearance is always subjective . . . .

    Regarding the interior quality, I haven't yet sat in any of the Ford cars, but I think the "cheap" looking air vents in the Zephyr are the same ones used in the current generation F-150. If that is the case, they do not feel cheap at all. The vents in my 2004 F-150 were the most satisfying to use of any vehicle I've ever owned. I currently own a 2005, $30,000+ Honda Odyssey with air vents that don't feel anywhere near as satisfying as the air vents on my 2004 F-150. Indeed, the Honda Odyssey's interior is poster child for bad dash design: huge panel gaps, minimally adjustable (and cheap feeling) vents, un-ergonomic HVAC buttons, etc. I know the Odyssey is not a sedan, but it stands proxy in this case for the Accord, because I highly doubt the Accord has significantly better materials (if they are different at all). There are many things I love about my Honda van, but the interior isn't one of them.
  • maverickmaverick Member Posts: 11
    I just read on one of the message boards that Ford was going to drop the Freestyle in it's current form after the 07 run. Can someone explain why the Ford has made no effort to bring diesels into the US market? I am aware of the emission standards, since I work in the heavy truck industry.

    I would like to see the 2.7 in the Freestyle and Fusion, it's either that or I'm going to convert my LS using European components.
  • nedc2nedc2 Member Posts: 192
    "Can someone explain why the Ford has made no effort to bring diesels into the US market?"

    Several reasons:

    1. Supply constraints in Europe where the demand is very high.

    2. Lack of suitable low sulfur fuel in the US.

    3. Emission regs. in certain key US markets, e.g. California, and parts of the East Coast which make those states off limit for diesel sales with currently available technology and fuels.

    4. The price premium that a diesel powertrain exacts.

    5. Uncertainty about demand, future emissions regulations, fuel prices, etc.

    And I'm sure there are still more reasons.

    That said, I certainly hope Ford sees fit to bring out a diesel option in the Future, especially for the new D3 (Volov P2) based Lincolns that are in the works, as well as for their SUVs and Crossovers,
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    There's a "Diesel team"currently in place in Ford N.A. to study the possibility of diesel powered vehicles in some of the Ford brands. Mainly it's about who is willing to pay for it, don't be surprised if it LEAPS towards you.... I hear those engines PURR.... And definately they are engines that last for LIFE....
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Someone is being very catty with us!
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    Sorry, but the Honda interior you show is inferior to the Zephyr interior, and I have sat in the Honda and seen the Zephyr up close. The Zephyr interior is not cheap, nor is that of the Fusion. The Honda, Toyota, Nissan cars all have their own style, and I think that people will really welcome something different.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    A new Cougar - based on the Mazda 6 / F/M/Z platform, or based on the Mustang platform? I hope they bring back the 1-2-3 rear turn signals and other classic Cougar features.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    "it LEAPS towards you.... I hear those engines PURR.... And definately they are engines that last for LIFE.... "

    So it to be Jaguar! And it will have nine lives!
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    He means in Accord/Acura dash is more flowing and less angular than in Fusion/Milan/Zephyr. And also Accord has integrated control panel (ICP). But 96 Taurus was the first with ICP. Ford invented ICP. My’02 Sable has one. Cannot say it is particularly convenient, many times it is hard to figure out right button. But looks good.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    We will just have to agree to disagree on that.

    I have NEVER read a review that stated the Accord had cheap interior materials.

    The Accord, up until this new Sonata, was the BENCHMARK for just about everything in this class.

    Refinement, interior materials, quality etc.

    The Accord has a great interior IMO, its the EXTERIOR that's FUGLY.

    But we'll see how it all pans out in the end...
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Refinement in an Accord?

    Pardon me while I guffaw! Every time I even think of buying an Accord, I make the mistake of driving one. The noise level is so high I wouldn't even THINK of buying one. If that's refinement, I will take a hushed Ford any day.

    I wonder if the Fusion will be a relatively quiet vehicle? I KNOW the Zephyr will be.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Recently I was a passenger in a friends 2004 Accord, and I found numerous issues with the vehicle (then again, in all vehicles it's my job to do so). Something that I definately dissagree with it's the Accords "Quietness". It's just AS quiet as a Mustang at 70MPH (considering I was in one right before the Accord) and used a sound-o-meter to measure it's decibles, which concluded I was correct. The engine a bit buzzy at higher RPM, but that's typical and expected from Honda 4 cylinders.

    My friend also has an issue with the lightbulb in the radio's panel of not lighting up. It's $800 just to replace the bulb. So my friend counts on the harsh FL sun, hitting it in the right angle, for him to see what station he is in.

    It also didn't help any that he doesn't seem to control the pedal at one particular angle, and your neck is snapping front/back because he nudges the gas, but still noisy in the higherway particularly on any road surface that's not perfectly smoothed.

    Now one thing is testing the vehicle for particular reasons, but very different riding as a passenger, where I was left thinking "And people like this thing and deem it high quality". But perceptions are different of course.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Your friend's 2004 Accord has greater than 36,000 miles on it such that the lightbulb can't be repaired under the B2B warranty? Wow, what does he/she do?

    Personally, I have no issue with the noise level of my ex's Accord EX 5M, and would buy it over any Ford (save the Mustang GT) thats available. Do I think its high quality, absolutely, much higher quality than the top line Milan I sat in at the rolling showroom event.

    ~alpha
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    After 9/11, he's afraid of flying, therefore his business requires him to travel around the southeast....therefore he'll drive instead. So he's out of warranty at 43K last time.

    I average 27-30K yearly in all my business drives around FL. Luckily it's a business expense so 12-17MPG and a $3200 a year gas bill isn't a worry, and some other times I'll be asked to take other vehicles to test out, so it hels a lil'bit...
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    I hate it for your "friend" ANT14.

    But according to most sources, the ACCORD is the behchmark of this class.

    The new Sonata is its biggest threat right now, it seems.

    But up until the Sonata's release, the ACCORD has been the benchmark from most aspects, and that includes overall refinement.

    Can't say I've seen that for a Ford lately, and from what I have experienced with the Fusion at the Autoshow, Honda doesn't have to worry much as far as interior quality is concerned.

    It was good for a FORD, but definately NOT class leading..and in this class of cars, it has to be....take the new Sonata for example.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    For refinement, most would agree it is the Toyota Camry and NOT the Accord which is class leading. And I bought my Ford (Five Hundred) on 13 October 2004 and have 34,800 miles on it...so I don't see why the mileage on that Accord is so astounding.

    I have had no issues with my Five Hundred, and figure the Fusion/Milan/Zephyr should exhibit similar quality.
  • frasierdogfrasierdog Member Posts: 128
    Quietness:

    In the case of Honda, you have to look under the carpet to see the problem. If you lift up the carpet on a Accord you will find little sound deadening material. This is typical of Honda cheapness.

    Measuring cabin noise on a smooth road is only one measurement. One should also measure the noise on a rough road. Can the suspension and chassis mute the noise of a bad road? In the case of the 2006 Sonata and the 2005 Accord, neither do well over a rough road. But owners will tell you their car is quiet. But compared to what, a 1983 Civic?

    I do not think a 2005 Mustang at 70 mph is a good benchmark of quietness.

    Let's use a 2005 Town Car over a brick road at 50 mph as the benchmark. And yes, I have nice old brick road for the comparison.

    I don't want to hear any whinny about using a Town Car for comparison. Nothing in the midsize class could be used for a benchmark for quietness. You want to use better than for the benchmark.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    But according to most sources, the ACCORD is the behchmark of this class.

    Most of my readings give that nod to VWs when it comes to interiors.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Let's use a 2005 Town Car over a brick road at 50 mph as the benchmark. And yes, I have nice old brick road for the comparison.

    Didn't Lincoln do that in their ads back in the 70's and early 80's?
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    ...Especially in this current generation...it is the BEST seller in the class though.

    When it comes to OVERALL refinement, the ACCORD has beat them all (except the new Sonata of course) And in that case the Accord is the usual winner in this class of cars.

    Its won COUNTLESS awards...more awards than any other car in this class.

    It's been on Car and Driver's Ten Best...

    Has won an Edmunds.com 2003 Family Car comparison (not the recent one, the Sonata won it.)

    It's won a Motortrend comparison test

    And I think it won one for Road and Track.

    Its also HIGHLY ranked in CR (Camry and Passat are ahead of it though)

    As a matter of fact, up until this recent Edmunds.com comparison, the Accord has RARELY not placed first in comparison tests.

    I remember reading a Car and Driver comparo back in 2002 when the PREVIOUS generation Accord beat the current gen Camry...

    But overall, when it comes to this class, it has ALWAYS been the Accord as the Benchmark.

    Why oh why do you think Hyundai copied the rear styling (as ugly as it is) and the Sonata handles, rides and has an overall feel similar to the Accord but at a lower price...

    When it comes to cars in this class, its the Accord, NOT the Camry that everyone usually aims for.

    The Camry MIGHT be the better seller, but the Accord is the car that wins all the awards most of the time.

    As a matter of fact, in Edmunds own comparo, didn't the Altima even beat the Camry?

    In Motortrend's comparo, the MALIBU (LOL) beat the Camry, along with the new Galant, but the Accord won the comparison test.

    But oh well...

    When does the new Fusion hit dealers anyway? August, September?
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    The ONLY award that matters is profit...profit that comes from sales. And Toyota sells more Camrys than Honda does Accords. The public has made ITS judgment as to whether to buy a Camry or an Accord. More chose Camry. Awards can and often are purchased. Even sales can be purchased (employee discount, anyone?)...

    The award that matters is a SALE to a retail customer.

    We will see how the Fusion/Milan/Zephry sell. Jobs depend on it. Not just in the factories and suppliers but also in the executive suite. Virtually no-one's job depends on whether or not some buff book gave a car a virtually meaningless award.

    I remind you, the AMC Pacer was Car of the Year for one of those magazines. A lot of good it did AMC....
  • tomm99tomm99 Member Posts: 10
    I am no automotive engineer, but I do own a Honda and I do rent a lot of different cars for work, and therefore have the opportunity to compare vehicles. Hertz rents Accords and the ones I've rented seem to have similar problems as mine.

    I can say this about Honda, the quality is not, repeat not, world class, and the interiors are not great. The Accord does not even show up on the JDPower reports anymore in the top quality or dependability rankings. I've noticed that the new Ford 500, Mustang and new F-150 did show up in the top in 2005 quality rankings, even though they are all new designs.

    My own particular Honda (only 18 months old) has numerous fit and finish issues inside, including the following:

    1 - A/C vents that have loosened up and won't stay in place
    2 - a discolored passenger airbag cover, that does not match the rest of the dash
    3 - some kind of insulation or something dropping down inbetween the dash and the instuments
    4 - cheap sounding doors when you shut them
    5 - misaligned trim pieces
    6- rattle in dash

    and more, and trying to get the Honda dealer to address the issues is like pulling teeth. Oh, and the ergonimincs of the Accord is terrible.

    I 've rented many Focuses and find them to be a lot more engaging and rewarding to drive than my Honda, the steering and suspension are awesome, the braking is secure and it actually has a lot of head and leg room, at least in the front seat. I'm hoping the Fusion is like the Focus only bigger. The driving dynamics of the Focus just can't be beat IMO.

    Anyway, the Fusion to me seems like a lot better value to me than the Accord and thats why I'm considering trading in. I also think it looks much much better than the Accord and the interior is a lot fresher and cleaner design, more European and more sophisticated looking than the Honda IMO.
  • tomm99tomm99 Member Posts: 10
    Which 6 speed auto transmission is in the Fusion?

    Also, have any other vehicles used the particular variable valve i-VCT 3.0L engine that is going into the Fusion/Zephyr etc. The feedback I've read online from people who've attended the Fusion driving event, this i-VCT engine/tranny combo is pretty sweet.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    It's the 6 speed from Aisin, a Toyota supplier...It will eventually be replaced by the GM/Ford joint venture unit now being developed.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Honda probably makes more off the Accord than Toyota does off the Camry for these reasons..

    A) The Accord is sold LESS to the fleet dealers
    B) The Camry has more rebates and dealer incentives..Accord only has dealer incentives.

    And futhermore, who cares about sales???

    The Ford Explorer is the best selling SUV in its class, but its not the best overall RATED SUV.

    Your logic is flawed.

    And awards do matter to, if they didn't cars would never improve. Your thinking is probably why GM and Ford has stayed the way they have all along.

    Sales don't mean PROFIT...if they did GM and Ford wouldn't be in the mess they are in now.

    The Discount programs are MOVING inventory, not helping bring in profit.

    Who cares if you sell the most and aren't making a dime off of them.

    I'd rather be a smaller player with a good selling product than a big player who has to practically give cars away.

    And you can remind me of the AMC Pacer all you want, it still can't hold a candle to the success of ANY Accord or ANY generation.

    And the Fusion is going to have a hard enough time trying to do it.

    Espeically when SAB, ABS and other safety options are OPTIONAL.
  • tomm99tomm99 Member Posts: 10
    maxamillion1...with all due respect do you think you can take your opinions to a board that is more appropriate to whatever argument it is you are trying to make?. I'm trying to learn something about the Fusion here, not be overwhealmed with one person's opinion about something irrelevant to the subject of this particular board. Thank you.
  • tomm99tomm99 Member Posts: 10
    Does anyone know about the wheel choices for the V6 model? Are these wheels below standard or optional on the V6?

    image
  • fbcjrfbcjr Member Posts: 19
    Maxamillion, You talked about Zephyr being overpriced compared to the TL a while back, noting that a TL could be had "loaded" for less. I checked it out today. Acura's website says the TL 5-speed auto with nav startes at $35,100. For the same price (or thereabouts), the Zephyr comes with a 6-speed auto and nav, and includes options unavailable on the TL: air-conditioned seats, 14 speaker TXH sound (8 speakers on the TL), etc. So, at the end of the day, it does appear that the Zephyr gives you more for less (other than the horsepower issue, which, in my mind, isn't terribly important in a front-wheel drive car anyway due to the torque steer).
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    maxamillion1...with all due respect do you think you can take your opinions to a board that is more appropriate to whatever argument it is you are trying to make?. I'm trying to learn something about the Fusion here, not be overwhealmed with one person's opinion about something irrelevant to the subject of this particular board. Thank you.

    Ditto on that, enough already...I'm tired of reading about accords and camrys here. If I wanted to read about them, I'd go to those boards.
  • tomm99tomm99 Member Posts: 10
    I found this link from another site, it has lots of detailed info on the Fusion.

    Detailed Fusion information
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    In Edmunds.com 2003/2004 Midsize V6 comparison test, the Camry SE V6 placed 3rd, the Altima 3.5SE 4th.

    Im not a big fan of MT comparos (this months SUV crossover comparison is a truly bizarre collection of 4 vehicles, for example), I thought the one with the Galant GTS, Malibu LT, Accord EX V6 and Camry XLE V6 was strangely matched-they chose the lux Camry and the sport Galant, then knocked the Camry for having the most features at a higher price.

    ~alpha
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Geez, for someone who is interested only in discussion on the Fusion, you sure did spend a lot of time talking about Accords....

    ~alpha
  • alman08alman08 Member Posts: 282
    hi, for those who have seen the Fusion in person, how did you like it comparing to the Five Hundred? I know the Five Hundred is a bigger car, but they both look very nicely styled to me. Thank you very much.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    If you didn't like what I had to say I am very sorry.

    My point all along has been that the Fusion has to compete head to head with the Accord and Camry in this class to be a truly succesful product for Ford.

    The LAST thing Ford needs in another Ford Taurus (fleet queen)

    And as far as Wheels.

    From what I have seen from the Ford Fleet Catalog, those rims on that particular Fusion are the 17 inchers that are standard on the SEL and SELV6 Fusions.

    The SE and S get different rims and wheel covers.

    And as far as the Zephyr is concerned...

    It still won't matter to consumers that the Zephyr has heated/cooled seats, and a THX audio system..Because if it MSRPs for around the same price as the TL, G35, etc. Folks are still going to more than likely choose it over the Lincoln (especially the younger buyers) because it lacks power, it doesn't have the Lexus, Acura, Infiniti name (yes Lincoln's have lost their prestige) and it probably won't have the resale value of those cars either.

    But we all know the Zephyr will get its share of rebates...
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    in the first place?
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    S model wheel covers:
    image

    SE model alloy wheels:

    image

    SEL model alloy wheels: (As shown on the Silver Fusion above)
    image
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,295
    tomm99...
    thanks for posting that great picture. i find it interesting for a ford car that the fuel filler is on the left side. too bad it doesn't have the push button entry.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • tomm99tomm99 Member Posts: 10
    According to the dealer I spoke with, you can add the keyless entry as a dealer installed accessory. It is not flushed mounted like the factory install, but looks similar otherwise.

    In fact I just Googled it, here is what it looks like, it retails for $129.

    image

    Never lock your keys in the car again with Ford's Keyless Entry Pad. You can now unlock your doors without your keys or without your remote using Ford's Keyless Entry Pad. Keyless entry pad transmits a radio signal the same as your factory remote to unlock your vehicle's doors. You can even program your own secret code to unlock your vehicle. Keyless pad adheres to vehicle and is removable without damaging vehicle. The pad can be attached anywhere on your vehicle. For this product to work, your vehicle must be equipped with factory installed remotes.
  • tomm99tomm99 Member Posts: 10
    image

    image

    image:)
  • tomm99tomm99 Member Posts: 10
    If you didn't like what I had to say I am very sorry.

    It's not that I do or don't like what you have to say (I honestly have a difficult time trying to follow what it is you're trying to say) my point is it seems your posts belong someplace else, the Zephyr board? The AMC Pacer board? The If it Aint A Honda I don't Like it Board?

    Thanks for the pics of the wheels, I'm glad to here the 17s are standard on the SEL.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    I wasn't the one who brought up the AMC Pacer...
    And as far as Honda, I actually drive an Altima :P

    But anyway.

    Nice pic of the two fusions together...Can't say I care for the Nascar pic.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    With our new VW it is already pretty much impossible to lock your keys in the car. If you just hit the lock button, it will not stay locked when you close it. You have to use the remote to lock it and have it stay locked. I don't know if new Fords do their's this way, but I think they should.

    Aside from being able to get back in if you lock your keys inside, can't see much use to the keypad thing when you have the remote keyless entry.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Most Fords also will not let you lock your keys in the car---if they are in the ignition. No car I know of refuses to lock if said keys are contained in a purse or cubby inside the car.

    Also...I didn't think the pad would be all that useful either. Neither did Ford product planners when they removed it from a car a few years back to save costs. They heard from the customers---loud and clear. It's back. And I love mine. Don't really know how I did without it, or that I would want to again...
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    No car I know of refuses to lock if said keys are contained in a purse or cubby inside the car.

    VW and Audi will not let you do that, without really trying. I just tested it. The way it works is when you press the lock button on the driver's door with the driver's door open it locks all doors except the driver's door. The lock button only locks the driver's door if it is closed. This, to me, is a better solution than that keypad.

    It seems that with VW the only way you could lock your keys in would be if you left them in the car and someone hit the lock button on the passenger side door after you had already closed the driver's door.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    That sounds like a feature that would drive me NUTS.

    How do you lock the car? You have to use the remote or the key? You can't just close the door?

    Thanks, but no thanks.

    I can even lock the doors on the new Fusion, Zephyr or Milan by hitting the bottom two buttons of the keypad (or the right most, if horizontal) at the same time. Presto.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I was one of the one's who yelled real loud, "Get the entry pads back on"..

    For me personally, it's helpful when i go to the beach, park, scuba diving, or gym, I just leave everything in the car under a carseat, glovebox, under the carpet, etc. and not have to worry about the keys falling, or being misplaced.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Simple...you press the button on the remote as you are walking away, of course. I would generally lock the car that way in any case, that is what I usually do on our Windstar.

    Closing the door and then pressing two buttons on a keypad does not seem like an improvement over just clicking the button on a remote that you already have in your hand...but whatever.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    You can do it by pushing the buttons on the keypad or by merely closing the door, having already pressed the lock button before closing it. Should the keys be inside, it is a simple matter to still get in (and no, no call to Onstar is needed!)

    Enough of all this, when should we see Fusions on the Ford dealer's lot?
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