Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

scape2 · September 2005

For years it has been bashed into our heads by reviewers/ car editors, car "experts" that anyting built by Ford/GM/Dodge is lower quality, lower reliability ect.. We have been brain washed into thinking anything with a Japanese lablel is far superior and in nowway can an American car ever match a Japanese engineered vehicle. I call it all garbage. In 1998 I sold my Japanese vehicle and bought an American vehicle. I lasted 105K no problems, bought another vehicle made by an American manufacturer.. It now has almost 60K miles.. one problem $120 to fix.. I don't buy it anylonger that Japanese=better.... I have friends that have had the same experience.. Word is spreading. I hope those people review vehicles are taking note.... :mad:

stickguy · September 2005

Well, I believe that everything (just about) made today is as good or better than the top stuff from 20 years ago. So, the functional advantage a Honda/Toyota etc. has over a Ford/Dodge is either non existant, or much smaller. I'm talking reliability here, not which car is nicer.

So, maybe a Camry is more reliable than a Ford, but the difference isn;t that great, and in practical terms, the Ford will be pretty darned good.

Maybe a Toyota isn't the best example, but certainly once you get away from Toyota (and maybe Honda), you can get good or bad from anyone.

Besides, the Fusion is kinda/sorta a Japanese car anyway (being on the Mazda 6 platform), so maybe it will be blessed???

Finally, if I'm buying new, I get what I like and want to drive every day, even if it isn't what is supposed to be the most reliable. Heck, that's what the warranty is for!

stickguy · September 2005

backy in the Hyundai thread almost had me convinced to look at a Sonata, so expect the earth to be shifting slightly on it's axis!

I probably would have too if they hadn't decided that the only way to get a stick shift is without and good options (like a moonroof or power seat).

The Fusion really has my interest peaked. One concern, however, is the mileage ratings, which are a bit lower I think than the Mazda. I hope they didn't gear the 5 speed real low so it is a buzz bomb onthe highway.

explorerx4 · September 2005

the new sonata has had a couple of recalls. sometimes epa is in the ballpark, sometimes, not. since the fusion is larger, maybe it is a similar ratio.

baggs32 · September 2005

backy in the Hyundai thread almost had me convinced to look at a Sonata, so expect the earth to be shifting slightly on it's axis!

I don't think we can afford that right now as my dad, a Ford loyalist for over 50 years, made that happen a couple of years ago when they replaced my mom's '91 Escort with a 2004 Hyundai Accent. He does still have the '96 Sable which is probably what prevented us all from falling into the sea. :surprise:

ateixeira · September 2005

I agree the gap has narrowed, now the difference between Lexus and Kia is just a small fraction, easily less than 1 problem per car. More like 0.1.

-juice

jeffyscott · September 2005

Looks like mpg is same for manual trans Edmunds has 23 mpg / 31 mpg for both the mazda 6 and the fusion. I think fusion mpg is better than the 6 with automatic the 6 is at 23 mpg / 28 mpg with auto, I thought fusion with auto had same mpg as the manual...but edmunds does not show the numbers.

gogophers1 · September 2005

I probably would have too if they hadn't decided that the only way to get a stick shift is without and good options (like a moonroof or power seat).

I can't agree more with you on this matter. IMO, the whole point of buying new is getting the exact car you want. I'm really picky on the option packaging too (cloth-stick-sunroof for me), so the new Fusion is totally up my alley (it doesn't hurt that it's easy on the eyes too). I actually looked at the Sonata and it's a pretty nice car. But for me, it required too many sacrifices on the options front. The whole color palette stinks (unless you're into one of 4 different shades of dark brown) and the only option you can get with the stick is floormats.

I've driven a Mazda 6 with the 2.3L 5spd manual and if memory serves, 5th gear was tall enough for quiet operation at freeway speeds and beyond. I suspect the Fusion gearing will be close. Now if Ford would only consider dropping a Euro-spec diesel in the engine bay...

allfiredup · September 2005

I'm the kind of person who takes a while making a decision to buy a car. I've been looking at the Mazda3 and Mazda6 for about six months now. Both are fantastic cars, but I actually like the 3 better than the 6 (4-cylinder, the V6 is out of my price range). I've also been anxiously awaiting the Honda Civic and after driving one a few days ago, I love it. I refuse to pay sticker for a car, though, so the Civic is out at least for a few months.

The other car on my short list is the Ford Fusion. An SE 5-speed with the SE Sport Package stickers for $18,945. I'm thinking $17,500 would be realistic in the next few months. I also applaud Ford for offering the black interior option on every exterior color. There are people like me who prefer a choice other than gray and beige!

stickguy · September 2005

Price seems reasonable. Especially if they actually make a decent number of 5 speeds, so the build up a stock of them.

I spec'ed out the same car. Add the safety stuff (ABS, side bags) and moonroof, and IIRC MSRP will be about 21K., invoice 19.5. Knock 1K off the top for a dealer discount (Hey, it is a Ford!), and the $500 + $500 FMC discount and matching DP, and you are at about 19K for a nicely equipped unit.

stickguy · September 2005

I'm getting tired of calling the dealer and hearing that they still ahven't shown up.. Anyone have any idea where the heck these things are?

My local dealer does show one in inventory (on the Web site, not on hand), so they must be getting close.

allfiredup · September 2005

I've heard second week of October. Every dealer in my area also shows ONE car in inventory on the Ford website. But there isn't one onsite yet. Just a few weeks, hopefully...

allfiredup · September 2005

What does everyone think about Ford making safety equipment like ABS and side airbags optional? It is obviously a move to keep the sticker price down, but I wonder how it will be in reality. Will almost every car they build come with these options? Or will it be like the Focus where only a handful of the cars on the lots have ABS?

It's a risky proposition for Ford in a crowded segment where the players like Camry and Mazda6 have standard ABS and the Accord and Sonata have ABS and side airbags standard.

I'm not a Ford marketing guy, but it would have made better sense to at least make these features standard on the SE and SEL. Then the S could still be advertised with a low price.

Any thoughts?

fordfaninbowie · September 2005

Well, if/when I buy, I plan on ordering the SEL V-6, auto, premium package, leather, and heated seats. No ABS or side airbags. I kinda like the idea of having the option of adding options to keep the price where you want it. I drove for years without ABS or ANY airbags (never wore a seat belt until it became law). If they were 'standard' features, that would mean the price would be more and I'd have to give up something I'd really want.

stickguy · September 2005

you can't please everybody it seems. For every person that complains they aren't standard, there's another that complains about paying for something they don't want.

It would make semse to make them standard on the top model, but then they may have lost a sale to mr. Bowie!

IMO, as long as they make them readliy available (and I think they will, FWIW), it won't be a problem to find what you want, given how many they will be making, and the relatively small number of options.

Probably you will see cars with no options, or all of them. Often, the hard thing is to find one in between, especially when you want (or won't take) a moonroof.

allfiredup · September 2005

Yeah, the in-between cars are often tough to find. I'm the kind of buyer who wants a manual transmission, upgraded stereo, moonroof but NOT leather. I currently have a Nissan Maxima and had to search for a few months to find the one equipped like I wanted.

akirby · September 2005

Unfortunately Ford can't control what the dealers order, so the inventory cars may indeed be ordered without the safety options just like the Focus. I had to order my son's Focus ZX3 because nobody had any in stock with side airbags, ABS and traction control. Same for used ones - they just don't have it.

However - you can always order one exactly the way you want it which is what I normally do.

cob · September 2005

Since I worked for the company that makes the shifter assembly and having seen the design and prototype process, I will say the D and L options were not well thought out by Ford. The shifter was designed to fit the transmission. Not since the days of the 2 speed GM Powerglides have I seen only 2 positions on an automatic. Every other Ford and Chrysler shifter we made had OD lockout buttons and all the GM shifters have OD D 3 2 1 etc. for selecting any gear you want. Keep in mind that in this computer controlled world the trans will automatically shift to second gear on a GM car even if the shifter is in the 1st gear position. The trans will not downshift back to 1st until the vehicle slows down below a programmed RPM limit. Some cars allowed you to pick 2nd gear to start of if you were on ice or snow to reduce wheel spin. This is a downfall on the Fusion but I agree if you want to control the trans you should buy the manual. If you really want to buy American get a Honda, Hundai, Nissan, Subaru or Toyota which are really made in the USA. The Fusion is made in Mexico in the Hermosillo plant. At least the shifter is made in the USA. If you really want a shock wait until your automatic shifter breaks and you need a new on from the dealership. The shifter only costs $30 to make, good luck buying one for under $100.

ANT14 · September 2005

". If you really want to buy American get a Honda, Hundai, Nissan, Subaru or Toyota which are really made in the USA"

And where do their profits go to ? Back to their home country.

Kirstie_H · September 2005

We're not going that route in this discussion, thangyuverrrymuch.

307web · September 2005

It is not about wanting to constantly control the transmission manually.
Having, at minimum, an overdrive lockout button helps make driving and riding smoother on hills since the transmission will not keep repeatedly shifting in and out of top gear if you lock out the top gear until you reach the top of the hill.
A manual transmission is not an acceptable solution if you don't want to shift gears yourself 99% of the time.

ateixeira · September 2005

Bingo, you can't please every one.

Camry outsells Accord using an a-la-carte menu of options, so Ford likely saw that and copied it for the most part.

-juice

allfiredup · September 2005

"However - you can always order one exactly the way you want it which is what I normally do."

Having owned only Japanese cars up this point, I forget that you can order a domestic. How long does that usually take and do you feel you get as good of a deal ordering as you would buying from stock? Maybe ordering a Fusion is in my future...

307web · September 2005

You often lose special incentives and rebates when you do factory orders, so it's usually cheaper to accept a few extra options on an in-stock car on a dealer lot than to special order.

hairong · September 2005

You often lose special incentives and rebates when you do factory orders, so it's usually cheaper to accept a few extra options on an in-stock car on a dealer lot than to special order.

Not true. You will get whatever incentive that's in effect when your ordered car comes in, not nothing. It's an added uncertainty, but with a volume seller like Fusion, the incentive will likely stay the same or even get better.

2ndly, if you want to bargain with the dealer (not using a purchase plan like Ford X-plan), most likely you can negociate away(or down) the dealer hold back if you order a car instead of buying one off his stock. But you need to show a strong commitment for what you order.

hairong · September 2005

Cob and 307web,

Fusion does have an OD lockout/cancel/whatever, it is the L position. Maybe you guys misunderstood this message in this very same thread:

tmp888, "Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan" #1893, 13 Sep 2005 9:01 pm

Re: Transmission is too cheap [307web] by tmp888 Sep 13, 2005 (9:01 pm)
Bookmark | Reply | E-mail Msg
Replying to: 307web (Sep 12, 2005 7:13 pm)
The reason to have only D, L and overdrive cancel switch is provide space for other thing like cup holder, etc. When you put in L, the trans will shift from 1-2-3 for 5 speed trans and from 1-2-3-4 for 6-speed trans (top 2 gears are prohibited when in L).

For both 5spd and 6spd auto in the fusion, the top two gears are ODs. 0.90/0.69 for 4th/5th in the 5spd, and 0.86/0.69 for 5th/6th in the 6spd. So if you down shift into L, you are cancelling ODs. Honda does the same thing in a number of their vehicles. My '03 Pilot won't let you shift into 4th gear (an OD in its 5spd auto) manually, you can only go from 5th to 3rd. Only thing missing in Fusion's setup is the ability to start the car in 2nd gear for slippery/snowy surface.

fitguy · September 2005

I browsed the Fusion brochure while at a Ford dealer this week (bought a '05 Explorer), I also own a Mazda 6S- I think Ford may really be on track with a winner in this car. I wasn't very impressed with the 500 when it debuted, by the Fusion has a great look and if it handles like the 6 it will draw buyers. After the mess Ford made out of the Taurus, it seems they may have finally learned a lesson. The dealer I was at said they were coming in next week and had a string of prospects waiting.

307web · September 2005

I understood that. The shift from 6th in D down to 4th in L may be too severe of a downshift for a mild grade where the care is "automatically" shifting back and forth between 6th and 5th several times a minute.
L is not he same as simply locking out the overdrive 6th.
Plus you have no way of holding a very low gear like 3rd or even 2nd on a severe grade so you don't don't smell brakes burning on a very long and steep incline.
If you drive only in Oklahoma and Florida and don't deal with mild, moderate and severe hills, then you won't run into these problems and the Fusion will be fine.

ANT14 · September 2005

"Their profits may go bank to their country, but they provide employment for thousands of Americans in this country."

Don't let the media lull you into thinking "Oh how sweet, they are providing jobs here". There's always more to the story. Only reason they are building here is to avoid certain taxes and penalty upon importing a vehicle. Just like trucks command a 25% "tax" when being imported into this country according to certain criteria, which is why Toyota is building a new truck plant in Texas. NOT because out of their generosity they felt they should provide jobs.

Also, Ford and GM are constantly donating money and improving the infrastructure of communities around their plants and organizations. It goes beyond employment, but what they have to offer the community as well, backed by donations. To date, Ford has committed over $6MIL (just upped from $2MIL initially) in Katrina survivor aide, more than any other manufacturer. And in a monthly rate, you will see donations from $10K-$500K each, made in local and state organizations/groups/sponderships.

So as I stated, there's more to it than just employment...

But instead of beating a dead horse, there's a more on-point forum in Edmunds that pertains to this issue where it has been discussed and settled already, as Kristi as mentioned.

"I forget that you can order a domestic. How long does that usually take and do you feel you get as good of a deal ordering as you would buying from stock?"

Sometimes the dealers (just to move the merchandise) will push even harder for something they have in their lot. OR something they see that's about to reach their lot a week or 2 in the future. Another bargaining tool they'll use is, they'll find a vehicle that closely matches your needs (lets say it has Curtain airbags, and your not interested in it, but saves them the hassle of ordering/shipping/trading, etc) then they'll let you have it without charging you for it.

allfiredup · September 2005

Is this the same 6-speed automatic as the Mazda6 s? If so, it's a great transmission. My best friend just bought a Mazda6 with it. What puzzles me is why the Mazda has the manual shift function and the Ford doesn't.

fsmmcsi · September 2005

The Malibu shifter also has two positions, but moving it to low just downshifts from 4 to 3, then the push button on the side allows you to shift up or down. I am sure that the Fusion / Milan / Zephyr will change once the new Ford & GM joint venture 6-speed automatic comes along.

307web · September 2005

Doesn't the upcoming new transmission only apply to V6 models?
Isn't the 4 cylinder Fusion's automatic a 5-speed instead of 6-speed? If so, what happens when you shift the 4 cylinder from D to L? Does it shift to 4th or drop 2 gears into 3rd?

todd11 · September 2005

Ant,

Do you happen to know what other vehicles use the six speed tranmission that is in the Fusion? I was wondering if the Passat as well some others might use it? I already know about the mazda 6 of course.

Will the Fusion have a radio delete/credit option?

garbob · September 2005

I test drove a S model today! It had no options, the four cylinder engine and the five speed stick. I believe the the sticker price was $17,795. The Tungsten Silver Metallic looks great with all the chrome in the grill. It had the Camel Cloth interior. The salesman let me take a long test drive on several diffferent types of roads. The 4 cylinder does a great job with this car. It handles very well, also. I will post more later but I have to say I was very impressed with this car!!!

ANT14 · September 2005

That version of the Aisin AW 6 speed is available on the 500/FS/Mazda6 as it's known. Although the 5 speed versions are available in many vehicles from a Camry to the Volvo S60. The 5 speed version isn't very reliable which some Camry and Volvo owner's might tell you...something about a defective solenoid which was dealt with on the 6 speed when it was developed.

Now on the Passat, Jetta, I believe maybe the Jetta is using the same transmission, I'm not sure. AisinAW is controlled, and a major supplier for Toyota. I wouldn't doubt it if it were the Jetta. Although, each of these vehicles have their own calibrations to them. If will shift differently depending upon the application.

gogophers1 · September 2005

I am so jealous. What dealer did you visit? How was the linkage/clutch? I can't wait to drive one of these things...

stickguy · September 2005

how were the front seats? Roomy? long enough seat cushion fo r thigh support?

Hopefully this means my local dealer will have them this week.

rcinmd · September 2005

Our local dealer had a Milan on the back lot Saturday, and I gave it a long walkaround. A very nice looking automobile. Nice taut lines, very well integrated. Brings the cat back to Mercury. The car looks like it wants to leap.
I'm a stick shift guy myself, and I'll take a spin in one of those when they show up, either the Fusion or Milan. I have the same engine in a Mazda Tribute. It's a bit overworked in that application, with the AWD. But in a Mazda 6 I rented with an automatic, it was as expected much more peppy. So I am betting in a manual trans Fusion / Milan, it will be a nice drive.
This was a loaded Milan, leather, moonroof, etc etc. Parked alongside a Hyundai Sonata LX, similarly equipped. The Milan was a few hundred dollars cheaper, and a vastly more exciting look.

307web · September 2005

Actually, if the Milan was loaded and a few hundred dollars cheaper, that means you compared a V6 Sonata to a 4 cylinder Milan.
Fully loaded Milan Premier V6 is $26K+ and fully loaded Sonata LX V6 is $24K+.

gogophers1 · September 2005

It'll be interesting to see how many Merc dealers stock the stick models. My guess is none. Fortunately, the drivetrain is identical to that in the Fusion, and from what I've been seeing on Ford's site, a number of dealers in my area (Minneapolis) now show sticks in their inventories. In fact, of the 4 Fusions shown in stock at Metropolitan Ford in Eden Prairie, 2 are manuals! I figure I'll drive a Fusion with the stick and then take a look at the Milan. I like 'em both in pictures, but I'm sure I'll prefer one over the other when I see them both in the flesh.

I'm heading over there after work Tuesday. If I like it, I'll probably order one in early '06 (if I can hold out that long) unless Chevy throws a fat rebate on the HHR between now and then.

rcinmd · September 2005

No, it was a V6 / automatic Milan Premier ( thought the badge had read Premium). As I said, I did not notice whether or not the Milan had traction control as does the Sonata, or whether that is even offered on the Milan. But otherwise, the cars were all but identically equipped.

garbob · September 2005

The linkage and clutch were very smooth. Short, precise throws on the shifter. A lot of fun to drive! The dealer was Champion Ford in Erie, Pa.

garbob · September 2005

The seats were very comfortable with plenty of thigh and lumbar support. This car arrived at the dealer on Friday. I live in Erie, Pa. By the way, the seats had manual height adjustment and the steering column adjusts up and down and in and out.

akirby · September 2005

Be aware that a lot of dealers are showing inventory but don't actually have the cars yet.

307web · September 2005

I'm sure they were not identically equipped since I priced them both out online and saw the price differences.
The Sonata has more than just traction control standard over the Milan.
They may have "looked" identical if the both had leather and moonroof, but there are lots of things optional on the Milan that aren't noticeable at first glance, like the side curtain airbags etc...
A Milan with the same equipment as a Sonata does not have a lower MSRP than the Sonata.

todd11 · September 2005

This show wich is on the Speed Channel will have a first look at the Ford Fusion.

stickguy · September 2005

stop at the dealer a few minutes ago. He said they had one over the weekend (a Ford demo car), but it went out on Saturday. He is expecting more this week.

Sounds like the typical deal where a truck full could show up at any time. Good thing I live within a mile of 1 dealer, and work about a mile from another, so it isn't too hard to keep an eye out!

allfiredup · September 2005

Just to settle the Milan/Sonata MSRP debate I priced both of them and compared specs. Identically equipped (except that the Milan doesn't have stability control available)-

Sonata LX - $24,895
Milan Premier V6 - $25,870

The Milan is just under $1000 more.

ateixeira · September 2005

True, but add another grand if you want to match the warranty.

-juice

green2go · September 2005

Anyone know when the 4-cylinder automatic models will be on dealer lots? What will the mpg be?

Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

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