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Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

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Comments

  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    But not submitting vehicle with those was probably single largest PR misstep made by Ford in the last model year.

    I may be wrong, but i thought the institute purchases there own vehicles for testing purposes. However if the manufacturer request a retest they can provide the vehicle at their expense.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    There was a discussion here some time ago (or was that another forum - I don't remember). IIHS will test a base model for free and allow an optioned model to be tested for a fee. Toyota and GM did that in previous years (previous Camry, G6, Malibu) and you can see ratings for models with and without side impact airbags. Ford either skimped on it or "forgot" the possibility. Either way huge mistake.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    That issue was discussed to death here. The Fusion results came out March 5...so those discussions were, I assume, on the days following that.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    survive without side airbags? what are the chances you will get a benefit? it makes me wonder how some some people get out of bed in the morning. maybe they sleep on the floor. ;)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Hopefully there is a real small chance that you or someone you know will benefit from side airbags. They are like an insurance policy. You hope you don't have to use it. But it can be real handy if you do need it.

    We all lived without the Internet for a long time too. But we all seem to use it a lot now. ;)
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    what are the chances you will get a benefit?

    You can say that about a lot of things...

    What are the chances you will get a benefit from seat belts, front air bags? What are the chances you will get a benefit from the general overall greater safety of modern cars vs. those of 50 years ago?

    For a few hundred bucks, I'll take the increased protection of side air bags.

    Oh and btw...

    In crashes with another passenger vehicle, 51 percent of driver deaths in recent model cars during 2000-01 occurred in side impacts, up from 31 percent in 1980-81. During the same time, the proportion of deaths in frontal impacts declined from 61 percent to 43 percent.

    from: http://www.iihs.org/ratings/side_test_info.html
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    This safety thing has gone nowhere. We all know the Fusion/Milan is not 5 star safety rated. Ford is I'm sure embarrased by this and is going to do something about it in the up and coming model years of the Fusion/Milan. Does this make it a death trap, no. Some want you to believe so however. But those who actually like the car and do thier research will see the Fusion/Milan are safe vehicles.
    The question is.. When Ford does correct the safety rating are we going to hear about in the media? Is it going to get as much recognition as not having a 5star safety rating.. I bet not..
  • misterpinchermisterpincher Member Posts: 4
    Any word on when the 2007 All Wheel Drive Fusion/Milan will arrive at dealer lots?
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    As I said before - Ford has a habit of milking models without providing any substantial R&D updates. Basically raise the cow and then cut the food supply, but milk and let the poor beast starve to death. Just look at Taurus, LS, entire Mercury line, etc. Crown Vic is about to die.

    I'm just afraid Fusion will share the fate of predecessors: good start with some problems, but nevertheless good, then mediocre life followed by slow and painful death. Current content is good enough to sustain the sales for a year - once novelty and enthusiast purchaseses wear off, if no substantial updates are provided, fleets will pick it up for another couple of years, after then it wil take 3 grand of cashback to move any of the inventory.

    I hope to be wrong.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    They're adding AWD plus a few interior features this year and will be adding a Hybrid and 3.5L next year.

    The 500 is getting a facelift and the 3.5L engine next year (after only 3 years).

    Don't forget they've spent the last 6 years building and launching 7 new cars on 3 new platforms (500/Montego/Freestyle, Fusion/Milan/Zephyr, Mustang) which takes a lot of resources. Now that the cars are launched and they have the basics right they can concentrate on upgrades.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    The 500 is getting a facelift and the 3.5L engine next year (after only 3 years).

    I thought the same thing but was corrected in another thread. It turns out that MY07 will be a short one for the FH/Montego, like three months or something like that, and the updated motor and design will not show up until MY08 sometime early next year. I would then assume that MY08 will be a long one for those two but none of the news links with the story really say if my assumption is true or not.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    When I said this year and next year I was referring to calendar years, not model years. So I agree.
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,162
    It's a little slow, IMHO. They should be careful not to get into "our figter of the Japanese competition from 3-5 years ago" mode - lets leave that niche to GM ;)

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    ...as there seemed to be an ongoing debate concerning Fusion/Milan safety, I created a new discussion strictly for that topic. Several posts were moved there. Please continue in link titleFord Fusion/Mercury Milan: Safety and Crash Ratings.
  • rnc5rnc5 Member Posts: 10
    OK, so we are not even to MY 2007 yet, but I was wondering about a few items I consider essential to a sedan in this class. AWD and an MP3 jack will be out in MY 2007 which is great.

    Does anyone know if the following are coming, and if so possibly when?
    - Electronic Stability Control, ESC
    - The 3.5 engine?
    - An automatic transmission with actual gears, i.e. first through 5th; not just drive & low?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    I really don't think AWD is essential to any sedan nor is a MP3 jack. As for the transmission it would be nice for it to have a manual with the option of an automatic.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    When I said this year and next year I was referring to calendar years, not model years. So I agree.

    Good enough. I just didn't want anyone else to get the wrong idea like I did at one point.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    For Fusion/Milan.. With all the improvments coming down the pipeline for these vehicles how can you say Ford is going to give up on the Fusion/Milan?? Makes absolutley no sense. Rumors all, rumors. AWD is going to be a hot seller in the Fusion. The 500/Montego has already proved people like and want an AWD sedan. Sales for the AWD 500/Montego far exceeded Fords expectations.

    As far as the staiblity control. I will try to find on the internet where I read this about stability control coming for the Fusion/Milan. Maybe not 2007 model year, but very soon after if I remember right..

    As far as the 3.5 goes, I don't tnink its really needed in the Fusion. I have found in 2 places on the net where the Fusion actually beats the Accord 0-60 by .3 seconds. Other mags only show a .6 second difference in 0-60 times. I would vote for a Fusiton GT with the 3.5, keep the 3.0 and the 2.3. Offer 3 choices in engines. The 3.5 is much needed in the 500/Montego/Freestyle ect..
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Fact is that you have to rev the heck out of it, etc. etc. to get those times! (Just kidding!) :P
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    ESC is coming, but no word on when. My guess is 2008 MY. I really don't think it's needed on a mid size FWD sedan but it would help the marketing when comparing it to other cars that offer it.

    The 3.5 will be available as soon as they have enough capacity to supply the Edge/MKX and 500/Montego/Freestyle. I expect it to at least be an option (perhaps a special edition) for the 2008 MY. And I agree about not really needing it for the FWD models - I get enough torque steer with 221 hp. I think it's more applicable to the AWD models.

    The shifter will probably be changed for 2008 also.

    In case the doom and gloom crowd hasn't noticed, sales were extremely strong last month and show no signs of slowing down, even with the documented shortcomings.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Doom and Gloom, the continuing saga...
    This can't be good JD Power news release
    Only Hyundai is smiling - well perhaps Toyota/Lexus too.
    -Loren
  • rnc5rnc5 Member Posts: 10
    Thanks for the updates. I live in the mountains out west and AWD, while not essential, is a huge help. From what I have read, ESC, does help reduce accidents. With 3 children in the family, wintery mountain roads, and other crazy drivers; all the safety helps.

    Going down mountain passes in the winter, being able to shift down into a lower gear and not hit the brakes all the time is also essential.

    Hopefully the MY 2008 Fusion will have what I think I need in a car. That will be about the time we are looking for a new car too.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    How anyone can measure anything meaningful about reliability in the first 90 days is beyond me. 5 yr reliability is much more important.

    I still haven't heard of any major problems (and only 1 or 2 minor problems) with the Fusion, Milan or Zephyr here or on any other forums or in the media. And trust me - if there were problems we'd be hearing about them somewhere.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    I am constantly monitoring the internet, chat rooms galore about any Fusion/Milan issues. I have not heard of any, none, nada, problems with this car. Will you hear about it from the media? Heck no! If it was found out that Ford or GM actually built great vehicles, (which they do) for a great price.. What then for Toyota/Honda??
    I bought 2 Fords over the last 10-12 years. I was told over and over again by the Honda/Toyota crowd they were junk and were going to fall apart. One went just over 100,000 with no issues, the other 70,000 with no issues.. Hmm....
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Kind of amazing huh? How Toyota with its issues with Camry, Avalon, Tundra all over the internet, known by the public, yet still wins awards... :confuse:
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "Fact is that you have to rev the heck out of it, etc. etc. to get those times! (Just kidding!)
    Good one.. sounds pretty familair obviously.. story I guess goes both ways?? :)
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    do you put pics in here/??
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Use the IMG button. You can only post a link to a picture hosted elsewhere - you can't directly upload them.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Well if they have a problem, they can enter it in the survey. It is data, and nothing more. I guess anyone can lie on a survey, or lie on the chat rooms. If we are talking statistics, the likelihood of a significant number of people lying on surveys compared to someone posting under assumed names, or simply posting because they have a problem, while those without problems do not posting, is quite a bit higher to the later being true.

    A 90 days does not make a lifetime with a car. So longer studies may prove say Honda or Toyota better. In the Ford line the most durable should be the Crown Vic. The Fusion will likely be OK. Will know more when the data flows in on that one, and in longer length surveys. Problem with Ford is overall scores look low. It is not good press! Lower crash tests are not good press. They need to impress with the total package. Offer a car, a safety and warranty package which is competitive with every car.
    -Loren
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I live in the mountains out west and AWD, while not essential, is a huge help. From what I have read, ESC, does help reduce accidents.

    While I agree with you...from what I understand about ESC and AWD, if I had to choose between the two and my primary criterion was safety, I'd choose ESC.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    JD Power consumer site now has the data on the Fusion. It looks very promising. The Five Hundred did well too. If the new cars continue to do well, Ford may climb the charts by new year.

    Will give the 2007 a test drive. Hope it has more standard equipment, like the side air bag and ESC though ESC is not as important to me. I assume they have anti-lock brakes. Standard aluminum wheels is a good thing.

    Anyway, the reliability looks pretty good in the Initial quality report.
    -Loren
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    from what I understand about ESC and AWD, if I had to choose between the two and my primary criterion was safety, I'd choose ESC.

    No way. ESC only comes into play if you take a corner way too hard or you hit a slick spot while turning. I know spirited drivers who own a Lincoln LS with Advance Trac (Lincoln's version of ESP) and have either never activated it or only activated it once in several years - and that's on a RWD V8 car that's much more likely to take a corner hard than a V6 FWD Fusion or Milan. A careful driver may never activate ESC. OTOH AWD can be used every day in snow or rain or sand or gravel.

    And even if you have an accident that ESC might have prevented, it's likely to be just a spinout. It makes more sense on a SUV with a high center of gravity that's much more likely to rollover instead of just spinning.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I know spirited drivers who own a Lincoln LS with Advance Trac (Lincoln's version of ESP) and have either never activated it or only activated it once in several years - and that's on a RWD V8 car that's much more likely to take a corner hard than a V6 FWD Fusion or Milan.

    I agree completely. I've been driving a Mazda6 V6 for 27 months now and take corners at speeds (when no other cars are around of course) that would give your grandpa a heart attack. Never have I even come close to losing control and I have to give all the credit to the fantastic chassis of the 6. Even in the winter with the pretty well worn OEM Michelin Pilots I don't lose control albeit at much lower speeds.

    I've already had AdvanceTrac save our 2006 Explorer from a wandering deer on a highway and I believe it is a necessity on that vehicle, but I feel it's a waste of money in a car like the Fusion or Mazda6. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from opting for it because it is a fairly inexpensive feature and if safety is your game then by all means buy it. However I wouldn't let the lack of it push me into a less desireable different make/model just because it does have it. Remember, some of the other cars in this class DO need it given their handling capabilities or lack thereof. ;)
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    One of the upgrades I would like to see on the future Fusions (and all Fords, for that matter) is a redesign of the radio. The LCD is really dated, and controls are tiny and poor marked. AUX (MP3) jack input is also a must today. And if I remember correctly, the power/volume knob is not lit at night.

    And talking about the dashboard controls, they may also improve the automatic temperature controls to be easier and not so complicated. And the hazard flasher button goes up on top of the radio, not on the bottom as it is now.

    Would also like illuminated controls for power windows, door locks, mirrors, ignition key ring, and glove box.

    They should also tighten the turning circle to be comparable to CamCord.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    You can upload pictures from your hard drive on to your CarSpace page and then put a link to your page here.

    imageimageDrive on over and see me!
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    My wife's ESC on her Jetta came on many times during the winter and helped her maintain control of her car. It comes on when needed...why would I want it on when not needed.

    There are many studies showing increased safety with ESC in cars as well as in trucks/SUVs. Is there any data to show improved safety from AWD vs. front wheel drive?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I agree completely. I've been driving a Mazda6 V6 for 27 months now...Even in the winter...I don't lose control albeit at much lower speeds

    Traction control is standard in the Mazda6 (including the 4 cyl). Don't know if they have always had this, though...does yours? Not that traction control is the same as ESC, but it is one componenet of it.

    BTW, if your experience shows that ESC is not really needed, it also shows why AWD is not really needed. I also have never had much problem getting around with front wheel drive...and I have never even had traction control. This is why I say I would choose ESC over AWD, given the choice. AWD is mainly to keep you going, I have never really had a problem in that regard.

    I'd also choose traction control over AWD as AWD just seems like costly overkill. I understand that some want AWD, for reasons other than safety, along with a super-powerful V-6 engine.

    Ford will not even let you get traction control unless you buy the V-6.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "JD Power consumer site now has the data on the Fusion. It looks very promising. The Five Hundred did well too. If the new cars continue to do well, Ford may climb the charts by new year."
    Yes, this data does look very promising for the Fusion/Milan/Zeph. However, I'll bet you won't see this in any media releases. Another indication the Fusion/Milan are proving to be reliable, well built vehicles are other internet chat sites. Some people already have up to 13,000 miles on their Fusions!??? How? They must drive all day long.. However they have no no issues with thier Fusions. I believe word will spread about the reliabitliy/value/handling/style/quality fit/finish of the Fusion across the internet and through word of mouth. ;)
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Traction control is standard in the Mazda6 (including the 4 cyl). Don't know if they have always had this, though...does yours?

    It wasn't standard at the time but I do have it as it came with the ABS package.

    What are you getting at with the traction control? It has a completely different function from ESC even though it's sensors are a part of the ESC system. Sure traction control helps me get going in snow but after that it's all up to me and the chassis when ESC is not present.

    BTW, if your experience shows that ESC is not really needed, it also shows why AWD is not really needed.

    I never said AWD is needed and I agree.

    AWD is mainly to keep you going, I have never really had a problem in that regard.

    Mainly yes. Solely no. If you're sliding around a bend a quick punch on the gas pedal will often get you going straight again when AWD is present. ESC does the opposite without lighting the brake lights which could be a danger if you think about it.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    My wife's ESC on her Jetta came on many times during the winter and helped her maintain control of her car.

    But the question is whether she would have wrecked without it. I doubt it unless she was driving too fast.

    I agree it's a safety net but I agree with baggs32 that not having it on a FWD sedan is not a deal breaker.

    And my AWD comments were more about AWD being more useful than ESC. While I think AWD can add safety as mentioned above, ESC would probably be better if you're only looking at safety.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    What are you getting at with the traction control?

    That this would help with winter driving as does ESC and Ford will not allow me to have it without buying a V-6.

    BTW, I'm going to be looking at a 2006 Mazda 6 in the next week. I think it is a nicer looking car than the Fusion, not sure how it compares in other ways yet as I have only driven a 2005.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    But the question is whether she would have wrecked without it. I doubt it unless she was driving too fast.

    Right, it was just a convenience. The primary reason we paid the extra $200 or so for this was the added safety...which I agree, chances are will never be needed. The winter driving thing was just an added bonus.

    Your comments apply to winter driving with AWD too, it is just a convenience to have AWD...and if you think you can not get through winter without it, you are likely driving too fast. I understand the performance value of it over front wheel drive for those who are going to go for the V-6.

    And my AWD comments were more about AWD being more useful than ESC. While I think AWD can add safety as mentioned above, ESC would probably be better if you're only looking at safety.

    I agree with that...I had premised my comments with...if your concern is safety and you had a hypothetical choice of only one or the other.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Also makes a difference on dry pavement or just pavement made wet by rain. I also believe there is a safety factor involved too. Ford is headed in the right direction when offering a choice to consumers at this level of vehicle. The Fusion/Milan will sell well with AWD, I have no doubt about it. :)
  • brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    I don't like AWD because of the added weight, friction, and complexity and the resulting reduction of fuel economy and acceleration. Having said that, however, I agree offering the choice on this level of vehicle is a smart move. I would consider it for my wife who often goes to work before the snow plows have cleaned our county road.

    As for safety, AWD might be helpful for a skillful driver. It can also give an less skilled driver a false sense of security. Here in Minneapolis the ditches are full of 4wd and AWD vehicles when it is snowy and icy. Drivers of these vechicles feel like Superman when they take off and discover awesome traction. They feel more like Mickey Mouse when they discover turning and stopping quickly on ice is a larger challenge and the benefit of AWD is much reduced or non-existant.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    check out my new toy @.. http://www.carspace.com/scape2..
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  • rnc5rnc5 Member Posts: 10
    AWD, ESC, ABS, Traction Control etc. are all helpful, or not, in the right situation with the proper driver, with the correct tires. Yes, I have seen many ditches during the Colorado winters with SUV's. We can talk about generalities and others all day. I am concerned about me and my family.

    AWD is huge for me. In fact AWD and ABS on our VW Passat saved me from more than one wreck due to the other drivers. Each time I was driving slowly for the conditions. After one incident in particular, I doubt I will ever go back to a 2 wheel drive car.

    When winter conditions come around I drive very conservatively in the ice, snow and even rain. AWD with ESC will give me an added measure of control and the general feeling of safety.

    2 less MPG for AWD over 20,000 miles a year is about $150.00 more a year. No big deal. If I lived in Arizona, I may have another opinion of what is best. For me, bring it all on with a good set of tires for the weather and a light right foot when weather turns bad
  • theman123theman123 Member Posts: 170
    check out my new toy .. http://www.carspace.com/scape2..
    Man, this car photographs well..

    Hey buddy, I get an error message when I click the link
    :)
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    That this would help with winter driving as does ESC and Ford will not allow me to have it without buying a V-6.

    I didn't notice that TC was only available with the V6 until now. That is really, really stupid IMO. Pretty much every other manufacturer, save for GM, offers TC with ABS because they are so closely related. I would think separating them adds complexity to the assembly line too. Thanks for pointing that out.

    BTW, I'm going to be looking at a 2006 Mazda 6 in the next week. I think it is a nicer looking car than the Fusion, not sure how it compares in other ways yet as I have only driven a 2005.

    I haven't driven a Fusion myself but those that have driven both usually say the same thing. The 6 is a bit smaller but handles a bit better while sacrificing some ride comfort.

    I don't find the ride in the 6 to be overly harsh but it ain't no Accord or Camry that's for sure. You basically have to want a sports car like experience to live with the 6. I did and I really do smile every time I get into it. Even if I'm getting in to go TO work. :P
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    I'll check this link out and find out why??? My carspace is still there, all pics are there too. I guess I will have to ask the host as to why the link gets an error. :confuse:
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    I think the extra periods in there were the issue. This should work and if it doesn't, let me know!

    http://www.carspace.com/scape2
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