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I may be wrong, but i thought the institute purchases there own vehicles for testing purposes. However if the manufacturer request a retest they can provide the vehicle at their expense.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
We all lived without the Internet for a long time too. But we all seem to use it a lot now.
You can say that about a lot of things...
What are the chances you will get a benefit from seat belts, front air bags? What are the chances you will get a benefit from the general overall greater safety of modern cars vs. those of 50 years ago?
For a few hundred bucks, I'll take the increased protection of side air bags.
Oh and btw...
In crashes with another passenger vehicle, 51 percent of driver deaths in recent model cars during 2000-01 occurred in side impacts, up from 31 percent in 1980-81. During the same time, the proportion of deaths in frontal impacts declined from 61 percent to 43 percent.
from: http://www.iihs.org/ratings/side_test_info.html
The question is.. When Ford does correct the safety rating are we going to hear about in the media? Is it going to get as much recognition as not having a 5star safety rating.. I bet not..
I'm just afraid Fusion will share the fate of predecessors: good start with some problems, but nevertheless good, then mediocre life followed by slow and painful death. Current content is good enough to sustain the sales for a year - once novelty and enthusiast purchaseses wear off, if no substantial updates are provided, fleets will pick it up for another couple of years, after then it wil take 3 grand of cashback to move any of the inventory.
I hope to be wrong.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The 500 is getting a facelift and the 3.5L engine next year (after only 3 years).
Don't forget they've spent the last 6 years building and launching 7 new cars on 3 new platforms (500/Montego/Freestyle, Fusion/Milan/Zephyr, Mustang) which takes a lot of resources. Now that the cars are launched and they have the basics right they can concentrate on upgrades.
I thought the same thing but was corrected in another thread. It turns out that MY07 will be a short one for the FH/Montego, like three months or something like that, and the updated motor and design will not show up until MY08 sometime early next year. I would then assume that MY08 will be a long one for those two but none of the news links with the story really say if my assumption is true or not.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Does anyone know if the following are coming, and if so possibly when?
- Electronic Stability Control, ESC
- The 3.5 engine?
- An automatic transmission with actual gears, i.e. first through 5th; not just drive & low?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Good enough. I just didn't want anyone else to get the wrong idea like I did at one point.
As far as the staiblity control. I will try to find on the internet where I read this about stability control coming for the Fusion/Milan. Maybe not 2007 model year, but very soon after if I remember right..
As far as the 3.5 goes, I don't tnink its really needed in the Fusion. I have found in 2 places on the net where the Fusion actually beats the Accord 0-60 by .3 seconds. Other mags only show a .6 second difference in 0-60 times. I would vote for a Fusiton GT with the 3.5, keep the 3.0 and the 2.3. Offer 3 choices in engines. The 3.5 is much needed in the 500/Montego/Freestyle ect..
The 3.5 will be available as soon as they have enough capacity to supply the Edge/MKX and 500/Montego/Freestyle. I expect it to at least be an option (perhaps a special edition) for the 2008 MY. And I agree about not really needing it for the FWD models - I get enough torque steer with 221 hp. I think it's more applicable to the AWD models.
The shifter will probably be changed for 2008 also.
In case the doom and gloom crowd hasn't noticed, sales were extremely strong last month and show no signs of slowing down, even with the documented shortcomings.
This can't be good JD Power news release
Only Hyundai is smiling - well perhaps Toyota/Lexus too.
-Loren
Going down mountain passes in the winter, being able to shift down into a lower gear and not hit the brakes all the time is also essential.
Hopefully the MY 2008 Fusion will have what I think I need in a car. That will be about the time we are looking for a new car too.
I still haven't heard of any major problems (and only 1 or 2 minor problems) with the Fusion, Milan or Zephyr here or on any other forums or in the media. And trust me - if there were problems we'd be hearing about them somewhere.
I bought 2 Fords over the last 10-12 years. I was told over and over again by the Honda/Toyota crowd they were junk and were going to fall apart. One went just over 100,000 with no issues, the other 70,000 with no issues.. Hmm....
Good one.. sounds pretty familair obviously.. story I guess goes both ways??
A 90 days does not make a lifetime with a car. So longer studies may prove say Honda or Toyota better. In the Ford line the most durable should be the Crown Vic. The Fusion will likely be OK. Will know more when the data flows in on that one, and in longer length surveys. Problem with Ford is overall scores look low. It is not good press! Lower crash tests are not good press. They need to impress with the total package. Offer a car, a safety and warranty package which is competitive with every car.
-Loren
While I agree with you...from what I understand about ESC and AWD, if I had to choose between the two and my primary criterion was safety, I'd choose ESC.
Will give the 2007 a test drive. Hope it has more standard equipment, like the side air bag and ESC though ESC is not as important to me. I assume they have anti-lock brakes. Standard aluminum wheels is a good thing.
Anyway, the reliability looks pretty good in the Initial quality report.
-Loren
No way. ESC only comes into play if you take a corner way too hard or you hit a slick spot while turning. I know spirited drivers who own a Lincoln LS with Advance Trac (Lincoln's version of ESP) and have either never activated it or only activated it once in several years - and that's on a RWD V8 car that's much more likely to take a corner hard than a V6 FWD Fusion or Milan. A careful driver may never activate ESC. OTOH AWD can be used every day in snow or rain or sand or gravel.
And even if you have an accident that ESC might have prevented, it's likely to be just a spinout. It makes more sense on a SUV with a high center of gravity that's much more likely to rollover instead of just spinning.
I agree completely. I've been driving a Mazda6 V6 for 27 months now and take corners at speeds (when no other cars are around of course) that would give your grandpa a heart attack. Never have I even come close to losing control and I have to give all the credit to the fantastic chassis of the 6. Even in the winter with the pretty well worn OEM Michelin Pilots I don't lose control albeit at much lower speeds.
I've already had AdvanceTrac save our 2006 Explorer from a wandering deer on a highway and I believe it is a necessity on that vehicle, but I feel it's a waste of money in a car like the Fusion or Mazda6. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from opting for it because it is a fairly inexpensive feature and if safety is your game then by all means buy it. However I wouldn't let the lack of it push me into a less desireable different make/model just because it does have it. Remember, some of the other cars in this class DO need it given their handling capabilities or lack thereof.
And talking about the dashboard controls, they may also improve the automatic temperature controls to be easier and not so complicated. And the hazard flasher button goes up on top of the radio, not on the bottom as it is now.
Would also like illuminated controls for power windows, door locks, mirrors, ignition key ring, and glove box.
They should also tighten the turning circle to be comparable to CamCord.
Drive on over and see me!
There are many studies showing increased safety with ESC in cars as well as in trucks/SUVs. Is there any data to show improved safety from AWD vs. front wheel drive?
Traction control is standard in the Mazda6 (including the 4 cyl). Don't know if they have always had this, though...does yours? Not that traction control is the same as ESC, but it is one componenet of it.
BTW, if your experience shows that ESC is not really needed, it also shows why AWD is not really needed. I also have never had much problem getting around with front wheel drive...and I have never even had traction control. This is why I say I would choose ESC over AWD, given the choice. AWD is mainly to keep you going, I have never really had a problem in that regard.
I'd also choose traction control over AWD as AWD just seems like costly overkill. I understand that some want AWD, for reasons other than safety, along with a super-powerful V-6 engine.
Ford will not even let you get traction control unless you buy the V-6.
Yes, this data does look very promising for the Fusion/Milan/Zeph. However, I'll bet you won't see this in any media releases. Another indication the Fusion/Milan are proving to be reliable, well built vehicles are other internet chat sites. Some people already have up to 13,000 miles on their Fusions!??? How? They must drive all day long.. However they have no no issues with thier Fusions. I believe word will spread about the reliabitliy/value/handling/style/quality fit/finish of the Fusion across the internet and through word of mouth.
It wasn't standard at the time but I do have it as it came with the ABS package.
What are you getting at with the traction control? It has a completely different function from ESC even though it's sensors are a part of the ESC system. Sure traction control helps me get going in snow but after that it's all up to me and the chassis when ESC is not present.
BTW, if your experience shows that ESC is not really needed, it also shows why AWD is not really needed.
I never said AWD is needed and I agree.
AWD is mainly to keep you going, I have never really had a problem in that regard.
Mainly yes. Solely no. If you're sliding around a bend a quick punch on the gas pedal will often get you going straight again when AWD is present. ESC does the opposite without lighting the brake lights which could be a danger if you think about it.
But the question is whether she would have wrecked without it. I doubt it unless she was driving too fast.
I agree it's a safety net but I agree with baggs32 that not having it on a FWD sedan is not a deal breaker.
And my AWD comments were more about AWD being more useful than ESC. While I think AWD can add safety as mentioned above, ESC would probably be better if you're only looking at safety.
That this would help with winter driving as does ESC and Ford will not allow me to have it without buying a V-6.
BTW, I'm going to be looking at a 2006 Mazda 6 in the next week. I think it is a nicer looking car than the Fusion, not sure how it compares in other ways yet as I have only driven a 2005.
Right, it was just a convenience. The primary reason we paid the extra $200 or so for this was the added safety...which I agree, chances are will never be needed. The winter driving thing was just an added bonus.
Your comments apply to winter driving with AWD too, it is just a convenience to have AWD...and if you think you can not get through winter without it, you are likely driving too fast. I understand the performance value of it over front wheel drive for those who are going to go for the V-6.
And my AWD comments were more about AWD being more useful than ESC. While I think AWD can add safety as mentioned above, ESC would probably be better if you're only looking at safety.
I agree with that...I had premised my comments with...if your concern is safety and you had a hypothetical choice of only one or the other.
As for safety, AWD might be helpful for a skillful driver. It can also give an less skilled driver a false sense of security. Here in Minneapolis the ditches are full of 4wd and AWD vehicles when it is snowy and icy. Drivers of these vechicles feel like Superman when they take off and discover awesome traction. They feel more like Mickey Mouse when they discover turning and stopping quickly on ice is a larger challenge and the benefit of AWD is much reduced or non-existant.
Man, this car photographs well.. :shades:
AWD is huge for me. In fact AWD and ABS on our VW Passat saved me from more than one wreck due to the other drivers. Each time I was driving slowly for the conditions. After one incident in particular, I doubt I will ever go back to a 2 wheel drive car.
When winter conditions come around I drive very conservatively in the ice, snow and even rain. AWD with ESC will give me an added measure of control and the general feeling of safety.
2 less MPG for AWD over 20,000 miles a year is about $150.00 more a year. No big deal. If I lived in Arizona, I may have another opinion of what is best. For me, bring it all on with a good set of tires for the weather and a light right foot when weather turns bad
Man, this car photographs well..
Hey buddy, I get an error message when I click the link
I didn't notice that TC was only available with the V6 until now. That is really, really stupid IMO. Pretty much every other manufacturer, save for GM, offers TC with ABS because they are so closely related. I would think separating them adds complexity to the assembly line too. Thanks for pointing that out.
BTW, I'm going to be looking at a 2006 Mazda 6 in the next week. I think it is a nicer looking car than the Fusion, not sure how it compares in other ways yet as I have only driven a 2005.
I haven't driven a Fusion myself but those that have driven both usually say the same thing. The 6 is a bit smaller but handles a bit better while sacrificing some ride comfort.
I don't find the ride in the 6 to be overly harsh but it ain't no Accord or Camry that's for sure. You basically have to want a sports car like experience to live with the 6. I did and I really do smile every time I get into it. Even if I'm getting in to go TO work. :P
http://www.carspace.com/scape2