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Synthetic Oil Alternative
I was thinking of getting on the bandwagon and using synthetic oil for my vehicles after reading all the articles, but then I came to my senses after experience and some research was done. With a 13 year old Integra , a 5 yr old Sienna and a new 03 Avalon, I'm not convinced any of my vehicles will get synthetic oil put into it now -or- in the future.
For any engine 5 years and older I recommend through experience, to use a name brand-name oil and simply add a can of "BG MOA" oil additive. (ask you dealer on the next oil change..cars love this MOA). This product added on every oil change will have the equivalent benefits for the internal engine working... Most people change their oil every 3K-5K anyway so why spend the extra money when a can of MOA costs around $8. You will get the high temperature protection that you get with synthetic. You can purchase this at your local car dealer's servcie center (at oil change time) or at a local gas station(if you're a do-it-yourselfer) People say that the 'engine runs smoother', and 'I get better gas mileage' when switching to synthetic. My own experience, over many years, in using BG MOA in the engine along with using premium fuel (& not the 85/87 octane molatov cocktail stuff)is the same 'engine runs smoother' and 'I get better gas mileage. Same quotes as for the synthetic users so why go to it. Try this alternative.
Note, older engines will leak as soon as you put synthetic oil into them after being on regular oil. A can or 2 of BG MOA may even save that old engine.
I may even start using BG MOA on my new Avalon to really give it a treat. Don't forget also to once a year to use BG 44K in you fuel system. I welcome your questions.
For any engine 5 years and older I recommend through experience, to use a name brand-name oil and simply add a can of "BG MOA" oil additive. (ask you dealer on the next oil change..cars love this MOA). This product added on every oil change will have the equivalent benefits for the internal engine working... Most people change their oil every 3K-5K anyway so why spend the extra money when a can of MOA costs around $8. You will get the high temperature protection that you get with synthetic. You can purchase this at your local car dealer's servcie center (at oil change time) or at a local gas station(if you're a do-it-yourselfer) People say that the 'engine runs smoother', and 'I get better gas mileage' when switching to synthetic. My own experience, over many years, in using BG MOA in the engine along with using premium fuel (& not the 85/87 octane molatov cocktail stuff)is the same 'engine runs smoother' and 'I get better gas mileage. Same quotes as for the synthetic users so why go to it. Try this alternative.
Note, older engines will leak as soon as you put synthetic oil into them after being on regular oil. A can or 2 of BG MOA may even save that old engine.
I may even start using BG MOA on my new Avalon to really give it a treat. Don't forget also to once a year to use BG 44K in you fuel system. I welcome your questions.
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Comments
Interesting story you have. However you need not have change to a synthetic so soon, 80 miles into the XLS. Its a wash either way based on what I have heard. You need to first do the break-in period on your car, as mfgs recommend. Mechanics ech this statement, I would not even recommend using MOA in the first 500 miles. You said you did 2 months research...well I have 10 years experience in vehicles from 1977 to 2003 that synthetic is no better than regular brand-name oil with a can of BG MOA...same great benefits as you elude to ...
The reason for MOA is to have the same benefits as if you were to use synthetic oil but at less money. Remember why synthetic was invented ... so the oil companies can get more $$$ & for those folks that do not do frequent oil changes. So what 'fleetwood' is saying is that if petro oil has good lubricants there is not need to add MOA.
To conclude then, for a 'premium oil change' give your engine a can MOA --or-- if you want to spend the extra money, and support Mobil1 stock, use that synthetic oil. I saw what 4 cans of MOA did for a old engine(even my old 77 Olds 98) ...restored it similar to what 'fleetwood' is referring to if you put a 'Red Line polyol' into the engine. MOA & Mobil 1 is readily available.
For example, I recently drove over 6500 miles on Mobil One before changing it. After sending in a sample for analysis it was determined that the additives package in the oil was almost gone. There was no sense in going further than 6500 miles so in the future I will change it a little sooner. So it doesn't matter if someone says, "sure, you can go 10,000 miles, no problem". That advice does not apply to you, your car, or your needs, only their's.
Hope this helps. Good luck.
What happens to the pour point and flash point once you upset the chemical balance of your oil? Does it become more volatile? What about the basic resistance to aeration? Additives are murder on this one aspect of fluid reaction.
Blindly adding additives to oil is a bad thing. If for some reason you feel that you NEED to add additives to your oil then you are simply using the wrong oil.
If you think that synthetic oil was invented to simply add more money to the pockets of the oil manufacturer then why do you think the snake oil industry was started? BG, the company that produces MOA, also sells a line of synthetic oils that they tout as having a 15,000 mile drain interval. It's funny how these companies talk about having such a wonderful product but they have to market additives also. I question Valvolines actions in this matter too.
For the extra $8 per oil change...I can make up the difference using synthetic oil from the start.
BG 44K is the best fuel system cleaner out there.
I may consider synthetic at the my first oil change service but not earlier.
Undoubtably BG's 44K is the best fuel system cleaner out there. Do you have any experince with Chevron's Techron product and if so, does it even compare to BG's 44K.
Ever since I tried the BG 44K, it cured my pinging problem (by removing the carbon deposits in the combustion chamber). It's rather expensive, at $20 a can. But it's something you can use once a year.
hydrocracked petroleum engine.
"hydrocracked" in the search engine on the side.
It will come up with the result you need
You may of voided your warranty , dog-gone-it, by switching at the 80 mile mark. People please don't switch so soon. Read your owner's manual , ask at the dealership. Nothing will happen people if you wait 'til your first oil change (3K or 5K) if you really need to switch to synthetic. Your new Toyota will run fine for years to come and needs to break-in in the beginning for Christ's sake. Syn Oil is too good to put into it right away. Maybe one day Toyota will catch-up and use synthetic, out of the factory, but until that time the Avalon needs to run on new Toyota Oil for at last the first 1000 miles and not be replaced / tappered with by introducing syn.oil any sooner. END OF DISCUSSION.
What was all that childishness about??
Now, it's over!
- My whites are whiter and my colors don't fade.
- My glasses don't streak
- Women notice me at stop lights
- I lost 36 pounds
- My hair is more shiney
and it took 3" off my waist size, LOL
BTW, I think this article has the information about different ways of producing "synthetic" oils.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article- _id=3631
Here's what happened, according to a detailed account published in the trade magazine Lubricants World. Late in 1997, Castrol changed the formula of its Syntec "full synthetic motor oil," eliminating the polyalphaolefin (PAO) base stock (that's the "synthetic" part, which makes up about 70 percent by volume of what's in the bottle) and replacing it with a "hydroisomerized" petroleum base stock.
So maybe that is the hydrowhatchamawhoozits he meant?
TB
It's similar to how oil companies extract the last bit of gasoline in crude oil.
the left over by-products are stuff like motor oil, diesel, & kerosene
Basically in a similar process the heavy motor oil is put in a pressurized hydrogen-rich environment. The pressurized environment raises the heat of the oil and is exposed to a catalyst which "purifies" the oil, leaving a "purer" conventional base stock, which has better properties than the "contaminated" base stock. Some studies have shown that the hydrocracked oil has properties similar (not quite meeting) to of a PAO (synthetic) base stock.
Even though Mobil 1 is used from the factory, it is likely that it is not the same stuff that you buy at the auto parts stores, as the various manufacturers specify certain characteristics which Exxon-Mobil uses a special additive package than the ones on a store shelf.
I wasn't dogging you, by the way, just joining in on the fun and foolishness.
Soapbox mode - "On"
I'm happy when someone tries a product, likes it, and sticks with it. That's good. That's so much better than changing types of oil, bar soap, hairspray, whatever, more frequently than changing underwear - too much change for no reason, and while change is good, it's nice to have a few stable things in our lives. For instance, I still use the same Trac II razor my folks gave me when I was 15 - through high school, ten years in the military and then some - I'm 39 now.
At the same time, when people adopt an attitude that "What I use is the best and you're an idiot if you don't use the same thing I do", they become morons.
It's ridiculous to think that just because I use a Trac II, my son can't use his high-zoot (and $27 for a pack of refills!) Mach 3 razor. He likes it, go figure.
I see that a lot on these boards. There are very few people with actual engineering or mechanical qualifications or experience, yet so many will call people stupid because we don't follow them into the horizon. Why should we?
They don't (most of the time) have a clue as to what they're talking about. They read an article, talked to some guy at work about it, so now they're an expert. Go figure.
I'll use whatever oil I want in my car, based on my research and experience. And I have a lot of experience and have done lots of research. I'm not, however, going to come in here and basically call people stupid (like a few in this topic have) because you or they don't use "my brand".
Soapbox mode - "off"
I'm off to harrass the Hyundai and Kia guys about resale value.
oil and its permutations is a rather contentious subject, and these boards are no different from other forums in that regard. enjoy the arguments, and drive on.
Fleetwood and I have both forgotten more about automobiles than you'll ever know. Call me names, will ya'?
How did you italicized and bold the text in the above post? I created the document in Word then cut and paste it here, but unfortunately without success; because the formatting is lost in the process.
Please share your secrets with us less savvy computer guys.
Thanks
Read and learn, grasshopper.
Since I cannot actually use the < and the > I will replace them with [ and ]
So for bold [b]Text you want bold[/b]
And for Italics [i]Text you want italics[/i]
But remember, don't use square brackets, but greater-than and less-than characters.
TB
"Zuelmyster and their pea-brain"
Again, I've forgotten more about cars than you'll ever know.
Actually you are the one with the attitude. Oh, I'm so looking up at you that you've forgotten more that I'll ever know. Did someone hit you over the head that you have forgotten so much.
Do you have anything smart to say, ...if so can you say something smart & offer an experience in this thread on synthetics. I challenge you. You say you have so much experience, wow, but like you said you've forgotten it. It's tough to offer any viable input if you have none.
What's your purpose in this discussion thread...I just read through it and you've offered zero input. You probably just like to enter 1 sentence entries that say that you've forgotten more than others will ever know. If you've forgotten so much then exit stage left. Oh, actually good luck to you, maybe one day you'll remember a little scrap of information that you can share with the readers.
1st What is the difference between Mobil1 and Castrol Full Synthetic sold at Toyota dealerships ?
2nd My wife and I purchased three weeks ago new 2003 Toyota Land Cruiser, we got now about 1300 miles on it but at 5000 miles it goes to the dealer for a lube job. I would like to use the Castrol Full Synthetic but I am not familiar with this brand except a few years ago Castrol was putting parafin in their oils is that still the practice ?
I would like to hear from all you guys and your expertise.
Thanks ahead of time.
Lou
There are alot of statements that you make that are misleading and not totally correct.
when it comes to the final discovery that in fact fully synthetic oil (I prefer Mobil One) as the oil to BEGIN an engines life no matter what brand is the RIGHT thing to do. I feel my having done this and proven it's viability with the last 5 cars and exceeding a quarter million miles with each car proof enough for me and may that have followed my advice.
5 cars? That many?
Ok, I have dealt with hundreds of vehicles, some going into the 400,000 mile range on standard off the shelf Chevron oil.
I'll be glad to let you all know as time goes on how wonderful my new Avalon XLS runs as it so called "breaks in" LOL.
Understand that there are many other variables to a good break-in other than the oil. Preference has been for standard (organic) oil for breakin, as it allows the rings to initially wear to your driving or common use.
It already runs as smooth as a babys butt, and you can't tell it's even on at idle. It runs like a raped ape and still get's 31mpg so far at 80mph on the open freeway to date.
Funny, what state has an 80 mph speed limit?
And how exactly does a raped ape run? As far as I know, even a fast ape is comparably slow.
I have NO doubt that by then it will have proven that using the Mobil One from the start has born out some wonderful advantages.
It won't prove anything, other than the fact that it works for you.
By the way I now have 1100 miles on it and the oil is still that brand new very light almost transparent honey color....can you say CLEAN?
Or maybe it isn't doing its job??
Part of the job of oil is to clean the contaminates out of the engine. If it doesn't suspend it in the oil, then it isn't picking it up and carrying it to the filter or pan.
Personally, I get a little concerned if there are high miles on any oil and it shows no sign of use.
Now, you can go on about how me or anyone else knows nothing all you want.
For those who comment about how race cars use certain oils, that isn't a very good comparison, as those engines see high pressures and rpms.
Unless you are running your engine at those rpms, which if you are I hope not on the streets my family drives, then there really isn't any comparison. If you want to spend the money on synthetic and additives, then there is nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with running synthetic, but I agree on the breakin part.
To chastise or bad-mouth folks for using organic oil is wrong, plain and simple, not to mention the fact that your language needs a little cleanup.
Motor oils for passenger cars have additive packs suited for 3K+ between oil changes.
I'd say in some respectes, a motor oil used for racing has an easier life, as it probably isn't heated and cooled repeatedly or subject to short trip driving, etc.
Heck, many top fuel funny cars tear down the engines after each run, so what do they do but go about 1 mile between oil changes, maybe?
Nope, using what the racers use really isn't important to me, and probably isn't a great idea for your street driven car.
TB
IMO Mobil 1 for an over the counter synthetic oil is the only way to go. You can go better but for most people the shipping etc. is not worth the hassle.
As to the racing oils, they do not have the same additive packages for normal street use and would probably result in more wear then a conventional brand's regular oil. Stay away from racing oil unless you are going to be changing it very frequently
-For break-ins use standard oil...I could not agree more.
-Synthetic is not the be-all and a end-all
- I like your example on the 400,000 mile using Chevron oil. This is reality. I said it before and I'll say it again...use synthetic if you want to give money to the oil companies.
Right now the new LC is running as "smooth as a baby's butt " which whatever oil comes from the factory.
I will ask the dealer to continue using the same oil every time the LC goes for a lube job every 5k miles.
Thanks again .
Lou
Take Valvoline VR-1 10/30 for example with over 2 thousand PPM of calcium " detergent " and around 300 parts per million of Magnesium " detergent/dispersent " and low sulphated ash formulated to boot. The problem with some of these dino race oils is they are not available in the correct viscosity for some applications.
Now most of the blended Tri-Synthetics are a different story. Most are available from 20wt on up.Not all race oils are suitable for street use but the majority are. These are for the most part overkill but not engine life threatening.