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Chevy Uplander/Pontiac Montana SV6/Saturn Relay/Buick Terraza

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Comments

  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    It would be interesting if both Nissan and Toyota started importing Alphards and Elgrands in small numbers.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    I agree. I think some people would actually buy them! - that is...for space
  • momstruck1momstruck1 Member Posts: 206
    still waiting for the honda to release anything on the 05 oddsey . i had a venture in 2000-2002 and had a love /hate relationship with it. now in a GM trailblazer and can't wait to get back into a mini-van. i am a little disappointed with the "new" line of GM vans no fold and go 3rd row seat. I love that feature. just saying that the uplander is really not as nice looking as the toyota either. if anyone is looking for a van now i suggest you all wait as every van is being re-designed in the 05 year. except toyota which is now on the list as #1 for me.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    conversion companies would have some variety in their midsize van portfolio. As I understand, the only non-fullsize van that can be customized through a conversion company would be the Chevrolet Astro/GMC Safari.
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    Does the Astro/Safari make money for GM on such low volume? I don't think anyone knows. Many times vehicles continue to be made because of UAW agreements to keep certain plants open. The Camaro/Firebird - another long in the tooth model with much higher sales volume was recently scrapped, obviously not because it was profitable. I don't think the key to GM's future success is to make obsolete low volume products that don't have direct competition.
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    I think so that companies making vehicles with no competition makes a lot of money from it. Ford would make a lot of money if they should continue with the Aerostar, which was quiet reliable (at least more reliable than Astro/Safari).

    Ford, for example, make now a nice profit on every Crown Victoria or Grand Marquis b/c no competitor of that.
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    The money made on the Crown Vics is from police sales where no one else makes a police version of a rear wheel drive sedan. Otherwise it would be scrapped as well. The consumer version has plenty of competition from Buick and Chrysler.

    Bring back the Aerostar? Seeing some of the other decisions Ford has made recently, it wouldn't be that surprising.
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    Ford makes money on the Crown Vic because it recouped its development costs a long time ago.
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    There seems to be a misconception that because a model has been selling for a long time, it must be profitable because its development costs are "paid for". The fact is that development costs are paid for on every vehicle before it enters production. What you are actually referring to is the money GM and Ford "save" by avoiding huge new development costs on a replacement product. A vehicle can lose money and still be sold because there is no money to develop a replacement. The vehicle is still produced because the cost of discontinuing it may be even higher when factoring in UAW committments and plant closings.

    Looking at the profitablity and stock price performance of Ford and GM over the past 20 years, it would be hard to argue that their longer average product cycles gave them an advantage over the competition.

    Finally - development costs continue every year on even older vehicles as upgrades are offered, new emissions standards must be met, and parts from the latest low-bid suppliers must be integrated.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    person that wants to tow something yet does not want a brand new SUV

    Yep, the Astro will serve both of those customers well. :o)

    The rest probably sell to fleets. Still, someone needs to fill the niche.

    -juice
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I'm sure Avis buys a lot of Astros every year.
  • jeffshadowjeffshadow Member Posts: 13
    I just joined the Edmunds.com community and have read ALL the messages about the new GM vans and simply wish to state my intention: Buying a 2005 Buick Terraza and changing it into an 2005 Oldsmobile Silhouette-already have the GM emblems ready to go. The bodies are so similar anyway-grilles and fog lights are the major differences.
    GM wants to take Olds away from me-I'll just make my own! Pop out the tri-shield from the steering pad, replace the buick logos from the 17-inch wheels and install the magnificent new rocket badge from the 2002 Bravada in the center of a new billet, waterfall grille. GM is the only brand I will ever buy, just have to keep the Oldsmobile brand going. . .
  • bretaabretaa Member Posts: 130
    Jeffshadow,

         That's the funniest thing I've read in a while. Then you can release your own GM style press release saying how this, "SUV reinvents Oldsmobile with its own brand of modern go-anywhere versatility and unique styling and trim options." And the really sad thing is... You could probably do exactly what GM did for its other brands for a fraction of the cost and effort! Please, please promise to post the results of your "conversion" to the board.

    - Bret
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It will baffle dealers if you try to make a warranty claim, though. ;-)

    -juice
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    How sad Olds was scrapped and Saturn continues. GM does act in strange ways.

    Pricing is out on the 2005 DC vans. 27K sticker on the midlevel model with lots of equipment and the stow and go seating for both rows. Leather, DVD, NAV system and overhead rail system are extra if you want to buy a more expensive van.

    Looks like DC is abandoning the high sticker/high rebate game and pricing directly against Toyota and Honda.

    I predict GM stays with the high sticker/incentive game.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    would be funny. Be sure to post a picture when the conversion is finished. (and issue a press release saying how the all new Oldsmobile Silhouette totally redefines the Oldsmobile brand with a rough n tumble image, seating for 7, performance, quality, and innovation)
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    If DC is abandoning the high rebate game, how long do you think Toyota will stay it it? Do you think they will stay with it until the catch Ford sales world wide? And at $27K they are they are not pricing against Toyota, they are going for the market just below Toyota.
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    I'm not aware of Toyota offering any rebates on the Sienna. Although irrelevant to this discussion, Toyota recently passed Ford for #2 in worldwide sales, something that has been predicted for some time.

    I think if you compare the Honda Odyssey EX, and Sienna LE with average equipment packages to the DC O5 vans you'll find them to be very close in price. The same for Nissan. The 04 DC vans and the Freestar sticker for much more but also have the big rebates that get them back to where they would be if they priced directly against the competition.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    My post was in general terms. In January Toyota's average incentive was $2,900 vs Industry average of $3,700. Toyota announced in mid-February that they just missed catching Ford in 2003 on the recount when measured on equal terms. And a JD Power survey of average van transaction prices had the Toyota tops at $29,000. Gotta love the Detroit News on line. More fun then reading the Boston Globe.

    And did you see how well the money is working, Toyota is up 19+% in sales of 2004 over 2003.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    You don't see Toyota slapping $3,000 cash on Camrys daily, do you? Whereas you see Chrysler and Ford slapping $4,000+ daily on Sebrings, Tauruses, etc. So, watching Toyota offer $1,000 cash already means a lot, and that gets the buyers in with the title to the old Camry sitting in the garage.
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    I'm comparing apples to apples. Sticker prices of comparably equipped vans. The average transaction price relates to how much the dealer comes down from sticker and which trim level buyers want. Toyota deals less off of the sticker and their XLE luxury model is very popular.

    As for the $2900 average incentive for Toyota. Who's getting it? I don't see anywhere near the same rebates and low interest financing as Ford/GM/DC offer. Are they referring to special lease packages?
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    lately Toyota has been offering $1000 cash on Camry LEs and $800 cash on all Corollas along with $1500 on all Tacomas and special lease rates on Tundras. (except double cab)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They must include dealer incentives as in ad subsidies.

    -juice
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Toyota has a regional sales-distribution orientation, and rebates and financing offers are different in different regions, so your last post may or may not be the case for the rest of us.

    For example, in my area-Greater NY- the current offer on Corollas is $1000 Cash Back on CE models only. No special financing or lease deals either. Toyota is doing some really whacky things with rebates and financing for March- in fact, for Central Atlantic Toyota, all advertised rebates have been dropped. I'm guessing that dealers will be willing to price competitively based only on sales based factory to dealer incentives.

    ~alpha
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    is that Toyota only offers incentives on the most popular or stripped down models. (Camry LE, Corolla CE)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    May be volume discounts?

    -juice
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    This is off topic, I know, but recently I saw a Volkswagen Jetta GL drive out from a gas station and on the back there was an Enterprise sticker. What does this mean? VW finally sells to fleets? I saw another Jetta at the back of a rental lot close to the mall.
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    When the vans are put on the Lambda platform ~MY 2009, Pontiac will not have one. This is final. They, along with Buick and Saturn, will get a Lambda crossover SUV in 2007-2008. The crossovers will be built in Delta Township, and the vans will be built at Doraville.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I assume the Buick version must be the next generation Rendezvous.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    That was so off-topic that it belongs in the Jetta discussion :)

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  • jeffshadowjeffshadow Member Posts: 13
    All the Oldsmobile emblems are in; we are utilizing the larger ones from the 1998 Olds Silhouette. We will select the maroon/red color on the Terraza and go from there. As far as warranty claims go, the VIN will take care of that detail. If you have seen the new DC vans you have got to agree that they have the smallest 2nd and 3rd row seats. If I am going to have "captain's chairs" I don't want to sit in steerage class seats! I don't need seats that fold totally flat if I have to compromise comfort and style. Of course, more later . . .
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I sat in the DC vans' 2nd row and found it reasonably comfy. Better than the last generation Venture, IMO, but not as comfy as the new Quest's 2nd row.

    -juice
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    what are the changes you will make to the Terraza to make it an Oldsmobile besides slapping on a different badge? Different wheels?
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    Yep, it is the Rendezvous.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I guess I guessed right for once!
  • jeffshadowjeffshadow Member Posts: 13
    jchan2-see post # 1086. GM has very minor cosmetic differences on their upcoming 2005 GM minivans - and there are several 17" wheels available from aftermarket suppliers. Plus the personalized license plate we select will leave no doubt as to the conversion!
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    good luck on the conversion. You might want to talk to the newspaper about it and say you have the all new redesigned and unique Oldsmobile Silhouette.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    In Canada right now you can lease a GM van for 1% for 48 months and get $4750 cash back from GM. A buddy of mine just leased a Venture, what a steal of a deal. Seems like minivans are a giveaway these days with sales falling. Everyone except maybeToyota seems to be giving them away.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    If you want a Venture, now's the time to buy one. (I think there's like $4000 cash on the Chrysler Town & Country)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The local dealer has some Siennas down to just $200 over invoice. Ironically the loaded up models have much higher margins so people must want those more.

    -juice
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    must be gone already if they're being offered at $200 over invoice. Were the models stripped down CE models? Or were they the popular LE/XLE models?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Really?! Thats not what carsdirect.com is showing for my zip, and very impressive given that the Sienna remains on the Wall Street Journal's monthly "Hot Off the Lot" list of vehicles with lowest days in inventory (at 15 days). Actually, of the top 10, 7 were Toyota products, 2 were Honda products, and 1 was GM (the interesting Cadillac XLR).

    GM seems to be doing a lot of promo events lately. There's been a contest for the Buick Rainier for 4 months, that ends on Monday, and theres a contest to win a LaCrosse. I wonder if there will be a similar promo for the Terazza/Rebate/SV6/Uplander?

    ~alpha
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    probably. Maybe they're going to give away 20 minivans- five of each of the versions. (Uplander, Relay, Montana SV6, Terraza)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I was referring to LE models. Check out fitzmall.com if you're shopping around, they have several brands and sell at no-haggle prices.

    -juice
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    Here in the States you'll find major incentives on most of GM, Ford and DC product lines. The vans have some of the highest rebates, but percentage wise, $4000 off of a Chevy Cavalier or Ford Ranger is staggering.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, they offset any discounts with 5-6 price increases per year. The MSRPs are just adsurd.

    Put that rebate on a price from when those car designs were launched and then you've got something.

    -juice
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    that's low for a Sienna LE.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    I've definitely noticed the MSRP price creep. Manufacturers are all getting a bit silly with it. I've never seen a time where prices on so many vehicles go up so many times within a year. Clearly it's all turned into a big game. Raise prices and incentives and the deal looks better right!? Even Saturn seems to be doing it a little which is sad. I guess they have no choice.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    to increase sales AND profit, you have to increase the MSRP and then throw a huge $3000 discount on it to make it look cheaper.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Grand Caravan SE today, base MSRP: $24,975

    Back in 2002: $21,785

    So basically they've hiked the price up by more than $3 grand in just 2 model years, just so they could offer a bigger rebate.

    Here's an idea, make the MSRP $125,000 and offer a $100,000 rebate, the price is still about the same. See what I mean?

    GM vans are up, but not by that much. About a grand higher in the last 2 years.

    -juice
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