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Chevy Uplander/Pontiac Montana SV6/Saturn Relay/Buick Terraza

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Comments

  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    Estimated Element sales per Honda were 50,000 for 2003. They sold 67,000, or 34% more. 2004 Sales thru June are down 13% from last year, or about 30,000. And Honda has been somewhat disappointed in the age of the buyers, high percentage 40+.
  • apriloliapriloli Member Posts: 1
    I am so disappointed. I am a huge Saturn Fan and haven't owned anything but a Saturn since the early days - my first car was a brand new Saturn (a what? a Saturn ---- the good ole' days). And I now have 2 small children and was so excited to hear they were making a minivan. I can GUARANTEE I will not buy this one.

    Why you ask??

    No dent resistant doors. The #1 reason to buy a Saturn --- NO RUST. #2 reason, no haggle. But I personally will not buy one after this. I'll probably get another VUE when the time comes.

    Big disappointment Saturn. For the first time with this company, I feel let down!

    :(
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    and I dont think that rust is any longer an issue. I see plenty of Gen 3 Camrys from 1992 that are in great condition, no rust. I think that right around that time, thats when things started to change for all makes. Can anyone think of a particluar model (besides Ford/Mazda's 6 issue) that has a pronounced rust problem?

    apriloli, if GM can keep you in any Saturn, be it the Rebate or the VUE, trust me, they'll take it. So while you may be disappointed, and understandbily so because this new mini wont meet your specs, GM wont, because you're still buying their product.

    ~alpha
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    67k sales is very high, IMO, for a company's secondary small SUV. Think about it. It's their #2 priority on that platform.

    Combine it with CR-V sales and they probably beat the Escape/Tribute.

    I'm sure the steel is galvanized, maybe even double-galvanize (both sides). But you'll still get dings.

    -juice
  • vanman1vanman1 Member Posts: 1,397
    Rust is not a big issue for most cars (except maybe Korean ones) these days. My dad has a 10 year old Lesabre and it's only got one tiny spot of rust on it and he never washes or waxes the thing.

    Element sales are indeed falling off. The Honda die hards bought in but the thing is weird looking and there are lots of better small SUV choices including CRV.

    Saturn van is kind of strange. GM has never giving the division a badge engineered product. Probably was not a good idea for a different kind of company..
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    The Element and Scion are made to snag new customers. Once they get older, get a good job and a real haircut they'll tire of driving an ugly box and move up to - most likely a Honda or Toyota car or SUV. These products show how serious Toyota and Honda are about competing for customers for the long term. GM was trying to do the same thing with the Aztek - but it attracted a low percentage of new GM buyers.
  • vanman1vanman1 Member Posts: 1,397
    I'd agree with you if young people were buying Elements but they aren't. It missed the average target by about 10+ years. The 4 or 5 of them I have seen were all driven by 40 or 50 something year olds much like the Aztek.
  • lynnwlynnw Member Posts: 119
    I currently own a Buick Regal GS and am very happy with the ride and quality of the vehicle (well, for the most part) I was really excited to hear that Buick will introduce the Terraza soon and was even happier to be able to see "real" pictures of it. Seems to me they are really making an effort to capture serious luxury and quality along with convenience. I need to move on to a minivan since I now have 2 children to transport with me and I noticed that the RES seems to be controlled from the actual roof mount. Someone tell me that I am wrong, because it seems silly to me that one would not be able to operate this system from the dash. I cant wait to see this in person and check everything out, but I am beginning to think I may be disappointed especially with the new Odyssey coming out at the same time. I think I may be leaning toward Honda since the Buick may not live up to all the expected features and I dont even know what the mileage will be like. With my current Regal I only get 17 mpg which is not good, but it is supercharged so that is probably why. I just think I would expect at least 18 mpg on a van, but they have not release that info yet. Anyone want to throw this subject around with me and help me sort some stuff out?!
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    The Buick seems to be the best looking of the bunch. I saw it at the auto show last winter and it was really upscale looking in a deep red colour.

    Mileage should be similar to the current van's 19/27 rating. I don't see that as bad for a van.
  • spartanmannspartanmann Member Posts: 197
    Check out any recent Old Silhouette. The Buick will be a slight improvement but basically the same vehicle.
  • lynnwlynnw Member Posts: 119
    Thanks for the info. I was never crazy about the silhouette's looks but the photos of the Terraza look hot. My hopes are that I am impressed by it. The interior sure looks classy and refined, and I love the exterior SUV style. I have seen some spy shots of the new Odyssey and from what I have heard they will offer I am just afraid that there wont be any competition from Buick. The 19 mpg sounds good though.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    "GM was the first manufacturer to offer an integrated, factory-installed video entertainment system in vans and one of the first to offer a DVD system. With the new CSVs, leadership in in-vehicle entertainment - a very important area of customer consideration in vans - increases with a standard DVD player with flip-down, 7-inch (178-mm) screen and integrated controls on all models. The system accommodates CD, MP3 and DVD formats, has a parental mute override function and is equipped with inputs to allow items such as video games and video recorders to be played on the screen."

    This should help sales. I guess GM has watched the Freestar and figured out that these four vans may be in trouble.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    Wow, impressive.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    side airbags and curtain over the DVD any day. IMO it'd make more sense for GM to spend the money to make all the safety features standard. Yesterday I saw on the news that Alaska is prosecuting a driver who presumably caused a fatal accident while fiddling with the DVD player. I've never had a DVD in my cars so don't know how useful it is. But seems to me it'll just give my daughter another opportunity to nag for more TV.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    "Optional side-impact air bags (head and thorax)"

    Hummm?
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    That's not side-curtains...they only protect the front passengers and not everyone else.
  • vanman1vanman1 Member Posts: 1,397
    "it is angled somewhat toward the window to help provide protection for front- and rear-seat outboard passengers".

    Not curtains, but better than nothing.

    Standard DVD systems, 4 wheel discs with ABS and available remote start. Some good stuff on these vans. Still happy with our 04 Montana though.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think the DVD player is a big seller. You usually only see them on $30k plus models of competitors.

    If GM can get vans out with street prices under $25k, that'll help sales.

    Mileage will be another selling point. The 3500 in the Malibu is very fuel efficient. It might even improve from the 19/27 ratings of the current vans.

    So there are your two sellings points - DVD and gas mileage.

    -juice
  • cwebcweb Member Posts: 1
    what is the msrp on the terraza
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    GM recently announced the pricing on the Pontiac G6 which starts production in very late August or early September. Since the new vans start in late September, the price announcements can't be far away.

    I would guess a pricing theory simular to the one Chrysler tried. Base MSRPs closer to the current transaction prices. And Chevrolet low, Pontiac slightly higher, and Buick higher with higher content.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    How popular does everyone think the available factory remote start option will be? It will be intergrated into the key fob, and if like the Malibu, should have at least a 197ft range. And lets say it has the same $150 MSRP that the other GM cars have for it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I bet it'll be popular in the snow belt. You can warm it up before you get in.

    -juice
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    Remote start is a popular option on the Malibu up here so it should be on the vans also. That said, in hot states, it should sell well also. Think of a nice cool van ready to go in the 100F heat. Kids will love it.

    What will sell this vehicle:

    Remote start, standard DVD system, gas mileage, cool options like phat noise and a decent price point. This is what GM should focus marketing on. Buick vans should be loaded up standard because there is no other way to get a premium out of a badge engineered Terazza.
  • gmhellmangmhellman Member Posts: 121
    Pontiac just released the prices for the new G6 and they were surprisingly low. I hope this is a sign that Pontiac is going to have reasonable pricing for their new minivan. I agree with dan165 in that the standard option list will have to be somewhat lengthy to compete. My wife really wants one of these with the AWD. I can't wait to see one. The local dealership just got their build list for the new vans and the production started last week. Hopefully the prices will be released soon.
  • montanafanmontanafan Member Posts: 945
    At least the Montana SV6 starts production aroubf Sept 27th. So I would expect prices to be out after labor day.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Odyssey is about to be replaced so you now see deep discounts on the outgoing model. I saw an LX for $22k, and an EX with the DVD player for $25k.

    GM's street prices had better beat those, because resale has been comparatively poor vs. the Odyssey.

    Of course those prices are temporary, when the new Ody comes out they'll jump back up a coupe of grand at least.

    -juice
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    Terazza is definitely the best looking of the bunch.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    This might be old news but a nice Saturn saleswoman gave me a Relay brochure.

    The storage pockets in the back of all four seats look neat. In the pic they're storing headphones for the DVD, and they look wireless.

    The one pictured had the two trays between the seats, too. DVD and a first aid kit in the overhead track.

    I can also see seperate temp knobs for driver and passenger, and vents all over the roof for the 2nd and 3rd rows. 3rd row middle belt is built-in to the seat, which IMO is nice.

    Ultrasonic rear parking aid is listed as an option, as are AWD and StabiliTrak (I wonder if you can get both, combined). Remote start listed as an option.

    MP3 player standard, nice. DVD optional, XM also.

    May be nothing new but thought I'd share.

    They didn't have pricing info yet, but the funny thing is she insisted it was not a minivan but an SUV. I should have said I wanted a minivan and then walked. ;-)

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oh, no EPA mileage figures yet. I've been trying to get those.

    The new Ody with cylinder deactivation may take the fuel economy crown, or the GM vans will, let's see.

    -juice
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The Sienna still tops the list for now at 230 hp and 242 foot pounds, while still managing 19/27......

    ~alpha
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    GM vans are tops in Canada according to the government agency that keeps track of it all. What ever the case, the new vans could be better with the more efficient 3.5L.

    MP3 standard is nice. I wish all companies would do that. My PC is full of MP3s and I can't use them in the car (yet).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think the new Ody with cylinder deactivation will get 20/28 with a little more HP (I forget exactly how much).

    I realize the GM vans give up some HP but torque is still adequate and they may get better EPA numbers than the yoda.

    -juice
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    The Malibu V6 mileage beats the Camry and Accord.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Precisely. Guess it'll depend on gearing and weight.

    -juice
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Price is one place where GM can effectively steer some sales away from the imports. If I can drive out the door with a Montana SV6 or Relay for around $27,500, have it nearly loaded, then it might be a good bargain. Factor in incentives, and it'll be a GREAT DEAL!!!!!!! (I'll wait for the incentives. Meanwhile, Ford can just give Freestars away)
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    "They talk about cell phones being a distraction!"

    Cell phones ARE a distraction when the DRIVER uses it. PhatNoise can play music for everyone (just like a radio, which is safe) or it can play videos for the REAR passengers.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Look at the dismal gas mileage the Edmund's Sienna has delivered: 16.6 MPG for the 12,224 miles at last report. The overall gas mileage is lower than the EPA 19 City and also lower than the Odyssey and Grand Caravan delivered when Edmunds tested them for a long term test. (Both the Ody and GC had lower EPA ratings than the Sienna.)
        EPA numbers are good indicators but most Kia Sedona owners report better gas mileage than the pathetic 15/20 EPA. The 2004 Sienna has not delivered EPA numbers in real world driving conducted by Edmunds.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    Base Ford Freestars are advertised in the Toronto area for $19500 CDN or about $14700 US. They are really giving them away which is sad for Ford as I think it's a decent van.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interesting results from Edmunds' tests. On paper the Kia seems like a guzzler. Maybe the EPA overcompensates for its heavy-ish weight?

    $14,700 for the Ford might actually mean resale would be comparable to the Honda/Toyota pair after 2 years. ;-)

    -juice
  • ronsmith38ronsmith38 Member Posts: 228
    This must be for the cargo model.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There's a no-haggle dealer locally, and what I generally find is that domestic vans fall in around $22-25k. So stripped ones aren't necessarily cheaper, but loaded ones generally are.

    At least from what I've seen.

    -juice
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    WOW. What a great deal on a so-so van.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You can't get a 2-3 years old used Ody or Sienna for that much.

    -juice
  • darnell89darnell89 Member Posts: 1
    Thank You That Doesn't Make Any Sense To Have Only One Saturn With Out The Dent Proof Doors.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I agree. If the rest of the model line has dent proof doors, then how come the Relay won't have them?
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    ...won't have the plastic body panels. Lutz hates 'em, as that's the purported reason why they can't get the panel gaps closer.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    From Edmunds.com Long Term Sienna test, which in my opinion, states pretty clearly that the Sienna is used almost exclusively for around town driving, a killer of MPG:

    "Outside of a few road trips, most of our driving time has been spent inside the city limits. This includes numerous trips to the grocery store, toy store and local shopping malls, outings which have provided ample opportunities to load and unload kids, groceries and the occasional Toys 'R Us haul."

    http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/toyota/sienna/100257809/roadtesta- rticle.html?articleId=100603&editorialpage=page003&tid=ed- munds.h..wkedmunds.longterm.3.*

    From Edmunds.com Minvan comparison (which shows the Sienna in a mix of city/hwy, and in comparison to other minivans):
    "However, the Sienna does offer the best EPA fuel economy estimates at 19 city/27 highway, and over the course of a week the Toyota was consistently delivering at least 23 mpg in combined city and highway driving and often topping out at 24 mpg. Compare this to the Ford Freestar that typically offered no better than 18 mpg."

    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/101676/page007- .html

    (That one was driven in the real world, too).

    ~alpha
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Facts: 2004 Sienna has NOT delivered gas mileage as high as either the 1999 Odyssey EX or the 2001 Grand Caravan ES when each was driven by Edmunds employees in a long term test. Just go back and read the Edmunds results for the Sienna, Odyssey and Grand Caravan for the facts.
  • dan165dan165 Member Posts: 653
    The $19500 CDN (US $14700) cash price Freestar has 4 wheel discs/ABS, CD stereo, 4.2L V6, A/C, keyless entry ect. I think the only glaring thing missing for most would be cruise control. It's a steal of a deal and you get a full warranty also. Chevy is now advertising a Value Van for cash price of $20200 CDN but it's a short wheel base and has no ABS.
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