Chevy Uplander/Pontiac Montana SV6/Saturn Relay/Buick Terraza

vanman1 · December 2004

GM makes the best auto transmissions so it's a major component you generally don't worry about with a GM. I think Chrysler makes good vans but we liked the look of our Montnana better and because it was a little more narrow, it fit in our garage better. For some wider is better maybe but the Montana fit us better than anything on the market.

sundevil99 · January 2005

We've had our Uplander now for a week and a half. Based on all the negative posts above, maybe my expectations were low, but we absolutely love our new Chevy Uplander.

-Styling-

In my opinion, I think GM scored a hit with the truck-like nose. There are thousands of guys like me who aren't extremely excited about moving into the mini-van era of our lives. The Uplander eases the sting for me.

As for the comment above about 'just buy an SUV', try a difference of $500+ per year in insurance between a minivan and SUV. I'll take my $500 annual insurance savings by purchasing a minivan, thank you very much.

I appreciate that GM tried something different on the exterior. In my opinion, the Honda/Toyota/Dodge make up the vanilla side of the minivan market as far a styling goes.

-Interior Room/Seating-

There was a complaint above about the narrowness of the 2nd row bucket seats. If I was going to be hauling around Grandma and Grandpa Jones all the time, I would be buying a Chrysler T&C, not a middle/low end family hauler. My 5 and 3 year old move around fine and sit comfortably in all locations. Perfect for the young family.

Also, I'm not sure what 'dtownfb' was test driving, but my third row bench does fold down flat and the second row seats do tip forward. If you are hauling around enough stuff enough of the time to make a completely flat floor without any seats a necessity, it might be a good idea to purchase a pick-up truck as your second vehicle.

-Overall-

First impressions thus far are great. No complaints in the first week or so.

The engine has thus far been powerful enough for me although I haven't pulled any hills in it yet.

The DVD is great. We've used it sparingly as I don't want to spoil the kids, but sometimes the silence from my 4 & 2 year olds is GOLDEN.

The wife and I like the big wheels and the 'up-high' feeling when driving. It's amazing what a couple of inches in height can do to your driving experience.

More later.

dtownfb · January 2005

You are right that Chrysler has had a history of transmission problems. But each manufacturer has had issues with the transmission in theri minivans in one regard or another. If yo uahve a a few hours to kill, go through each of the forums of the different minivans. You will see that there are complaints about the transmissions in each. Also the electronic doors seem to be a problem area for everyone.

I agree with you about the DC seats although they are better than the base bucket seats of the GM. I have a friend who has a 2002 GC. I looked at their vehicle very closely on Thursday after seeing the 2005 GC. The seats in the 2002 are much more substanstial, more padding and taller backs. I'm sure they modifed the 2005 seats so they fit into the underfloor compartment. The other complaint I had about he base bucket seats were how low to the ground they sit. I'm 6'4" and have a long way to the ground. I sort of fell out of the seat.

I would not discount the second row seat comfort. In my case, my inlaws (both brother and sister and mother and father) do travel with us from time to time, so the second row comfort is important. More importantly, I think a minivan should be as flexible as possible with seating and interior space. If not, you may as well buy a SUV or station wagon.

dtownfb · January 2005

That surprising that the insurance cost went down. My insurance went up when I purchased my minivan. It may have had to do with the vehicle i switched, a 7 year old Explorer with 145k on the clock.

As far as styling, to each his/her own. Personally, I'll sacrifice my macho image and drive a minivan and get the extra interior space, gas savings, comfort and safety from a minivan. But if they looks attracted you to the vehicle, then great for you. Personally, I liked the Terraza and Uplander exterior styling. LIke I said, it's vanilla but I like vanilla ice cream. The back third of the Relay looked like an afterthought.

Interior seating: Yes the third row folds flat but it fold flat going forward as opposed going backwards into a well. You don't have that deep well in the back like the rest of the competition. That is critical space lost in the rear. Plus when the seat is folded flat, it is creates a ledge over top of the floor. So your space from floor to roof is reduced, further reducing the available cargo space that the competition all have. Also, the lift in height is increased as you have to lift an extra couple of inches to load something in the back. Hopefully I explained that clearly. If i had both vehicles in front of me, I could explain it better.

Even though I only have two kids (5 and 2), we do a good bit of driving to visit my family in NJ. So we do haul things like Christmas presents, vacations, shopping, yard sales (that inlaw thing again), etc. Again, this is what people expect to be able to do with a minivan. Move people and move stuff. That's why flexibility is important. If I need to haul 4x8, stone, etc., my father-in-law has a beautiful F-150 I can use.

The DVD player is one of the features I love and hope other follow suit by making it standard. I doubt it but who knows. I have one in my van and love it. We go on a number of trips a year and you are right, silence is golden.

Enjoy your van. It fits your needs and that is the important thing. I'm intersted in how this vehicle fares.

dtownfb · January 2005

Samnoe: The Terraza is definitely targeted as an upscale minivan. The two at the dealership only had leather, all power doors, leather wrapped steering, passenger power seats, etc. It seem to have standard what the other GM had as optional. The dash didn't seem to fit that luxury image. It wasn't bad but it didn't say luxury either. I thought the dash for the Relay fit the image of the car better. The materials thy used was much better then I expected. it may have been I expected more from the Buick because that is GM upscale market. Of course my sister-in-law thought the Relay was cheesy.

samnoe · January 2005

"The DVD player is one of the features I love and hope other follow suit by making it standard. I doubt it but who knows..."

No, please! Don't make it standard! I and thousand others around DO NOT need DVD players in our van..

Oh, and please, it is standard? I would rather pay $1000 less and not having it "STANDARD"...

jchan2 · January 2005

making the DVD player a no cost option?

dtownfb · January 2005

Good answer!

vanman1 · January 2005

I never wanted a DVD system and still would not as I prefer my kids play Gameboy or Leapad or read a book. That said, I guess it would be ok for long trips.

I have seen several of the new GM vans and I have to admit the look is growing on me.

The insurance issue is huge. Our 2004 Montana van is fully insured at the same price as our 5 year old Intrigue. A Trailblazer or Explorer would have been $600 more per year plus increased gas costs. I suspect people will buy these vans just fine in spite of the fact they may not be the very best on the market.

danno · January 2005

The Uplander DVD allows hookup of a game console such as Gamecube, X-Box etc. and uses IR headphones.

tamu2002 · January 2005

Well, for some folks this might be important, but all these fancy electronics won't sway my decision one way or another. I'm looking for a highly functional MINIVAN that's safe, comfortable, affordable, and a good value. I could care less about DVD players. How many times does one really NEED it anyways? I'd rather have my wife sit in the back and play with them. or sing silly songs together

danno · January 2005

I agree and that's why I bought the Uplander. But that doesn't mean there can't be a little fun in one's life with a few extra options.....

vanman1 · January 2005

Xbox in our house.

;-)

dtownfb · January 2005

Do you mind if we ask your wife if you need it? lol I have a DVD player in my van simply because my wife insisted on it.

Has there been any information on crash tests for the vans? The reason I ask is the previous GM vans did not fare as well as the competition in side impact crash. And with side airbags not available (not sure why they do not hqve these), safety now becomes a question for these vans if changes were not made in the structure to improve crash tests. Of course i understand that there are tests and there are real world experiences but that is a big ommission on the safety front.

tamu2002 · January 2005

I'm pretty sure my wife would trade the DVD for a $1K reduction in price any day. We're both practical and cheap

When I test drove the van, the sales person said the Uplander got a 5 star crash test rating. But I never verified it.

gmhellman · January 2005

I just checked the NHTSA web site and the only crash test ratings for 2005 Chevrolet Minivans was the 05 Venture. It received 4 stars on frontal head on for pass/driver, 5 star driver side impact and 4 star for the passenger side impact. The Uplander was listed as TBT (To Be Tested). Your dealer either has pre-released ratings or was confused about the ratings. I hope that it does well, my wife and I are planning to purchae one when the rebates kick in in the fall of 05

montanafan · January 2005

With the previous generation almost identical ratings with the 2004 Toyota Sienna on the government crash tests (TTI of 50/59 vs 56/54), things can only be better for the new generation with its strengthing of the body lower metal back to the rear wheels. It should meet GM's goal of 4 5-Star ratings. And of course there is the IIHS and HLDI rating of "substantially better then average" rating on real world losses. Add that with standard safety features like the standard DVD, optional stability control, and OnStar which no one else even offers. And it looks pretty good for the new generation on the safety front.

vanman1 · January 2005

Part of the reason for the bigger nose was to get the 5 star frontal rating. I am sure GM will get it.

sundevil99 · January 2005

I only caught the end of the commercial for the Uplander, but it looks as if Chevy is finally advertising in the Phoenix market.

Has anybody else seen any Uplander advertising?

danno · January 2005

I have seen the one with the guy looking for the cricket in the Uplander. I have the exact same color and model - LT.

Cool.

new2vans · January 2005

I've had my Uplander now for about 3 weeks and I love it. I've read posts on here about how this van will not appeal to those that drive SUV's so GM should essentially stop wasting their time trying to market it as such. I previously owned a Tahoe and with a toddler and preschooler, I relish the fact that I can now push a button on my key fob and the door slides open allowing my kids to help themselves into the van while I put away groceries. I love the mobility within the vehicle. We have second row captains chairs and my preschooler can move to the 3rd row with ease (if I had teenagers or adults I had to transport, I probably wouldn't have considered a minivan). I like the better gas mileage and feeling comfortable parking in narrower spots in a parking lot. I agree with an earlier post that the exterior styling kinda eased the transition from an SUV to a minivan. My Chevy dealer had 3 to choose from and so far I've not seen any other Uplander/Terraza/SV6 in town (yet), so that is kind of a neat feeling. I think that choosing a vehicle can be very subjective and you should match your needs and wants to whatever the van has to offer. I've never owned a minivan so after test driving some, I went with the Uplander for what it offered (o.k. so the great GM rebates I had didn't hurt, either, hehe) We don't use the DVD every time we jump in the van but it's nice to have since we take road trips often. I had to chuckle when I read the post from tamu2002 about not wanting a DVD player because he'd rather have his wife sit in the back and play with the kids. Ugggh, I wonder if he's tried sitting in the back seat for hours trying to amuse a toddler and preschooler (no disrespect, heheh). Even though it's early on, so far I love it.

danno · January 2005

Hey new2vans. Great summary. Couldn't agree more...especially the part about entertaining the kids in the back. ; )

sundevil99 · January 2005

new2van,

Congrats on your purchase. We've had ours for about two weeks now. I too feel pretty cool to be the first one on the block with the Uplander.

tamu2002 · January 2005

Hey no offense here new2. It's a tough job keeping kids entertained back there in a fun and educational way. Fortunately my wife is very good at that

Glad your family are liking the van. Isn't that what it's all about? I wish you guys many happy miles ahead.

cla1 · January 2005

I've been looking at the Terraza CXL and Town & Country Limited. Some clear advantages to the T&C: side curtain bags, stow & go seating, auto climate control,nav system, tire pressure monitor, and I think the guage cluster looks nicer. But the Terraza seats are better, bigger wheels, stabilitrak, standard dvd, load leveling. You can get load leveling in the T&C but only with trailer prep and none of the instock models have them. Chrysler finally went with the auto lights but only on the higher end ones. So if we can get the Buick cheaper, we'll probably get it if we can find one (they seem in very short supply). The width is really a non-issue but of course we've had a Venture and currently an 01 Silo. The back seat (3rd row) is much nicer on the GM, more leg room. The roof rack is a joke, no cross bars.

samnoe · January 2005

I know it's a matter of taste, but IMO the gauge cluster of the new GM vans beats the Chrysler and Dodge vans hands down. But the Chrysler Limited do have the cream light-blue background which is quiet nice. But the rest of the controls of the DC vans (Audio/Climate and the rest) are very plain and not tasty. I think that even the Ford Freestars dash looks better than DC vans.

Again, Just my opinion.

cla1 · January 2005

We decided to get the Buick, probably about 2000 to 2500 cheaper than we could get the T&C for. The T&C did have the navigation system, but otherwise a wash I think. The Buick dealer sold it for $500 over invoice, then with the 2500 off, it seemed like a decent deal, 29,192 with every option except trailer prep.

vanman1 · January 2005

Congrats!!

The non-permenant crossbar thing is all good. We have the GM clamp ons and they work better and we take them off when not in use as it cuts wind noise a lot.

bnichols · January 2005

If you read review, http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=16- 653 , this guy makes you think the GM is light years behind the all mighty Sienna in both price and refinement. I had the opportunity to drive both, and while the Sienna felt a bit quicker, I found the ride much more comfortable in the Uplander not to mention the interior does not put you too sleep like Toyota. The captains chairs in the Uplander are hard to beat, much better than Toyota. By the way, you can get a loaded out Uplander /DVD with 4 head sets/dual power doors/remote starter/dual power leather front seats w heat/6 disc CD changer with XM radio that is MP3 capable/ 8 speakers with controls on the steering wheel/4 wheel anti lock disc brakes/ traction control with stabilitrak/ trailer tow package "trans oil cooler and wiring harness"/ back up waring device for around a MSRP of 33,200. Guarantee you can buy one these for around invoice, 29000 give or take a few hundred. Now subtract your rebates and incentives and have a van for around 27-28 grand loaded with leather/DVD/tow package and so on. Try to find a Toyota with all these options I listed above, try about 35 grand ++++ and dealerships too proud come much off of MSRP. Toyota is also above giving rebates on their vans. Bottom line: Just comparing MSRP price is no way to compare a vehicles. Once you load out these two vans and then look at what they sell for, the GM is a much better deal by about 7 thousand dollars. Drive both vans loaded out as I did. The Toyota may get you to the next light quicker, but the Uplander/Montana SVS will do it just as well for a lot less.

bnichols · January 2005

How much do you have to pay for the cross bars and where did you get them? I was worried they were not available and was wondering if GM would overlook such an important item.

Thanks

dan165 · January 2005

Crossbars are available from the GM accessories catalog. Some vehicles have them included as an option, some do not.

vanman1 · January 2005

The crossbars came with our van as an option. They were on it (locked of course) when we bought it. I like them because they sit up higher than built on ones and when they come off the wind noise is very minimal. We use them for skis mostly in the winter. They aren't very expensive and if you buy a van I'm sure they can be added on the financing or lease.

new2vans · January 2005

I think your post was right on. Sometimes I think people just run out and buy an Odyssey or Sienna soley on "hype". Hey, I agree they are nice vehicles, but I thought I was the customer here.....I don't want to feel like I'm required to lower my needs and wants to meet the needs of the manufacturer or dealer as far as pricing and availability.

My Uplander is loaded to the gills...I think I have every option available, including the trailering package, heheheh. But like I said, there were only 3 to choose from on my dealer's lot and although it probably has more than we need, it was closer to what I wanted than the other 2. And after our rebates, we got it for around $27,400 so the extra options were even sweeter. There were some features on the T&C I really liked but I knew I wouldn't be able to get it at near the price of what I could get my Uplander for. I wasn't too crazy about the exterior look either. And I like the free year of Onstar and 3 months of XM radio in the Uplander.

Oh, and thanks for the posts on the crossbars....good information to know

dtownfb · January 2005

Actually the reviewer did meniton other shortcomings such as engine, safety (lack of side air bags), interior flexibility (Terraza). So price and refinement were not the only thing she based her review on.

Al;so Sienna and Odyssey far exceed the GM vans on interior space which for some people is much much more important then a masculine nose esp. in a minivan.

vanman1 · January 2005

The amount of space in the Uplander far exceeds what most people need. I doubt there are many people who buy something else because of that.

guod · January 2005

Does anyone know for sure if the "base" dvd unit has the IR emitter for wireless headphones. I would be suprised if they had two different DVD units. If so anyone know where to get some cheap compatible headphones.

dtownfb · January 2005

About 5 years ago I would have agreed with you vanman1 but with two kids and the need to bring half the house with you when you travel has changed my mind forever. IF you are an empty nester, i think you are absolutely correct. Then I would go with the Terraza. That smell of leather is addictive.

Please don't get me wrong, my main complaint about the GM van is not the quality (except the base seats in the Relay) of materials, engine performance, or even styling (to each his own). It's the fact that most people buy minivans for the interior space, flexible seating (ask Chrysler why they spent so much money on the Stow n Go...lost sales to Honda and Toyota) and safety (lack of side air bags). Minivans are the most efficient use of space on four wheels. And they are more fuel efficient than a comparable SUV. IF you don't like minvans and many peope don't like the styling of minivans, then get a SUV. There are dozens on them on the market in all sizes and shapes. But if you are going to compete against GC, Freestar, Kia, etc. you have to match them in the key areas and interior space is one of them esp. considering there is no price break by going with the Uplander or Relay. I think GM has them beat as far as features but the space issue will keep popping up. I could be wrong. But I also don't see them flying off the lots and they already have rebates on them and I have yet to see a commercial for this van.

Enjoy your van! They do ride nice and have tons of nice features in them. You should enjoy them for long time.

spartanmann · January 2005

The newly styled carry-over GM vans obviously don't stack up to the compeition in features, room or refinement. That's why you can buy a brand new one at invoice and get a whopping rebate as well. But they are still very adequate vehicles for most people. So there is nothing wrong with saving a lot of $$ if you don't mind their shortcomings. The only down side will be resale value and again only if you plan to trade within 3-4 years. The only loser I see in this is the GM stockholders - as GM introduces yet another uncompetitive, heavily incentivised product. Hard to see how this will improve the bottom line at GM.

vanman1 · January 2005

We have 2 kids and have no space issues in our Montana, even when we go camping or to our cottage with tons of stuff. Maybe you do, but I know lots of people with smaller GM, DCX and Mazda vans that do just fine. Sure there are people who need the maximum amount they can get but for most that extra few cubic feet of space isn't a big issue.

vanman1 · January 2005

No doubt these vans are not top of the heap but I don't think GM spent a lot of money on development either. They are largely the same as the old vans with a good interior, a 3.5L V6 upgrade and a few mechanical mods. I have an 04 Montana and we love the thing, it has a very refined ride. I think sales will jump a little but as to what level of incentives are needed is anyone's guess. So far there are very few.

cla1 · January 2005

There seems to be some negativity about the GM vans that I don't think is deserved. The review mentioned above was openly negative even before getting in the vehicle just by looking at the spec's. Versatility depends, I guess, on if you have a family with young kids, how often you really need 8 seating vs. 7. We never need 8 as we're either three couples, or with our grandchildren. Third row seat room is important and the GM is good there. All of our vans since 98 have been 4 captain chairs and the GM is as good as any. Yes, the T&C, the Ody and Sienna have slightly more room behind the third seat because of the seat well. But we take the divider out, and find that we have very good room in the GM with 3-4 adults and 2-3 grandkids. The auto load leveling in GM is nice, On-Star is very nice, and up until a year ago or so, the GM drive train was quite a bit superior to all the others. So we're happy with the GM but recognize that "ratings" will put the Ody, Sienna, and T & C ahead of it mainly because of curtain bags, stow in the floor seating, etc. But I don't want to pay 5-6k more for that in the Japanese ones, and 3-4k more in Chrysler. It's interesting to me that GM had side airbags standard in 98, and no one made much fuss about it when others didn't even offer it as an option. I wish they had put them in for 05, but the Stabilitrak is there along with some other nice stuff, so we're happy. Besides most Toyota and Honda dealers act like they're doing you a favor by accepting list price, and I don't think their products are that much better. JMHO

danno · January 2005

Just had a local glass shop install 3M film on the headlights and turn signal lights. I do a lot of highway driving and it should keep the sand blasting away from the headlights. The film will pit but is replacable. About $60 complete. Love the light throw of the new headlight design. I get flashed by other cars when on low beam. Lightyears ahead of my old Venture. I used to be able to drive around with highbeams on and not get flashed - with Silverstars.

rowedog · January 2005

My wife and I are interested in the new Uplander and we are headed into town to look at one tomorrow, but I have to say that my main obstacle to owning a GM is my very real fear of American-vehicle mechanical problems. We currently own a used Lexus and a used Mazda, neither of which has been perfect mechanically, but it seems to be well-documented that GM's consistently rank poorly in mechanical follow-ups. My mother's Trailblazer has been in the shop 3 times in 6 months for mechanical repairs already. I like the styling, and from what I read, I'll probably like the bigger, stronger ride style of the Uplander, but I'm very nervous. Any comments about this?

cla1 · January 2005

I don't worry much about it as I think they're all quite reliable. GM has had the infamous intake manifold gasket leak on their 3.1 & 3.4 v-6's. I think that's been taken care of but... Honda has had its transmission issue, I think fixed, and Chrysler has had a long history of transmission prob's but I think that's behind them. Our first Venture(98) had some electrical door problems (just needed to be reset occasionally). Two of our sons have Honda vans and have had sliding door problems (hard to open) but generally all have been trouble free.

uplandish · January 2005

Don't worry Rowedog. I owned a Subaru from 1987-2004 when I purchased a Chevy Impala. Now we just bought an Uplander. Prior to that I swore I would never by American again after having had bad experiences in the past. The Impala has been great! No complaints at all. We love our Uplander. Definitely not a "van feel". It's got a really heavy feel to it, more like and SUV and power galore. Enjoy your test drive!

jchan2 · January 2005

Not all Japanese cars are trouble free. I needed a new transmission in my 02 Odyssey back in November. I'm happy that Honda paid for the brand new transmission; I just paid for the labor. (about $600)They gave me a rental car too.

vanman1 · January 2005

Trailblazers did have some issues but the GM vans and most other models have been very good mechanically. GM actually ranks better than you thing (check jdpower.com), Issues with our Montana have been a cracked wiper fluid tank lid and a rattle in the door. Everything else has been perfect.

rowedog · January 2005

Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the input. My wife and I drove to town only to find that the large Chevy dealer only had ONE Uplander on the lot and that was someone else's waiting to be delivered, so I couldn't drive it...lol. We did get a good view though, and I like it mostly. Here are my concerns though: When I sat in the driver seat, I couldn't straighten out completely (I'm 6'3"). Does anyone else have an issue with this....is this something I'll find on a lot of vans? Also, the vehicle we viewed had two captain seats in the second row which seemed quite small, but the dealer explained we could actually get a bench-type seat with three independently controlled seats. Does anyone have this style, and is it better? Thanks.

spartanmann · January 2005

The term "American Made" is a misnomer. What you are referring to is "Domestically Designed". The Odyssey is built in Alabama, the Quest in Mississippi and the Sienna in Indiana. On the other had the "American" Ford Freestar is built in Canada as are many of the Chrysler and GM vehicles.

In the past what has separated the manufacturers on quality is not inital assembly quality, but longer term reliability of components.

"Domestically Designed" vehicles have lagged significantly in quality to the Japanese over the years, but have closed the gap somewhat. However, that gap will never close completely until the Big 3 learn to treat their parts suppliers as partners instead of whipping boys.

tamu2002 · January 2005

You shouldn't have paid for labor either. You'd think the factory warranty should cover both parts&labor.

Chevy Uplander/Pontiac Montana SV6/Saturn Relay/Buick Terraza

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