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Hey, if these are the only 2 points you're in love with the Odyssey, than there is good news. All other large minivans (except for the GM's) do offer side curtain airbags for all 3 rows (and let me tell you a "secret": you will be equally protected whether the airbags are "standard" or "optional" equipped...), and all other vans will handle as great in snow, although the DC vans do not offer stability control. GM and Toyota will even give you AWD plus stability.
Here is what it says
System 3 -- DVD RSE
The following two kits (p/n 15136091 and 15136092) are released for the 2005-07:
- Buick Terraza
- Chevrolet Uplander
- Pontiac Montana SV6
- Saturn Relay
TIP: The remote control will work only in these GM vehicles. Channel 2 of the wireless headphones will work only in these vehicles (Channel allows you to listen to DVD and Channel 2 allows you to listen to RSA).
There are two DVD systems available:
- A base system U56 comes with a remote control kit only (no headphones available).
- An uplevel system U42 comes with a remote control kit and a headphone kit (fig. 3).
TIP: Headphone kit TX3 can be added to either system.
TIP: Batteries are not included.
15136091 (Hosiden) Headphones Only Package (DVD RSE)
part number quantity item
15185391 2 Headphone Assembly
(Dual Channel Wireless)
15136092 (Hosiden) Headphones Only Package (DVD RSE)
part number quantity item
15190411 1 Control Assembly - Video Player Remote
TIP: If a kit is misplaced or was not shipped with the vehicle, follow established procedures for misplaced/missing components. The service part numbers for the kits are the same as the OEM part numbers.
Hope this helps. Bill.
Or just skip the back and forth and tell them what your bottom line is and negotiate to get that number, and avoid getting bogged down in the details of the line items, invoice/MSRP numbers, ad fees, ADM, etc. ad nauseum.
Steve, Host
Budget drives everything for me. I will probably lease again, or in GMs case, use the SmartBuy opion. Their own web page makes the payments seem a lot lower using the smart buy option. Still, I will negotiate the best price possible for this vehicle.
The question is, after checking the costs using this website, which van offers the best value? The Uplander LT is $28,209 TMV, the Buick CX (optioned like the LT) is $28,797 TMV, the Saturn 3 (again, optioned the same way) is $28,855 TMV and the Pontiac 1SB is $26,856 TMV. Since the Pontiac is the cheapest by almost $2k is this model the best value? I don't have a local Saturn dealer and don't want a dealer now that isn't close. Pontiac local dealer is small and they don't usually carry the vans, but they can order me one, $100 over invoice is their policy. Chevy dealers are local, but have not been able to get an Uplander in stock yet, and the Buick dealer is also not local, but not far away.
I also have a $1500/$750 loyal rebate check to use, but it expires at the end of this month. Could I apply it now, if I ordered something for later?
Also the incentives are not substantial now($1k for all but the Saturn, which is $1,250). Would it pay to wait a few more months, or will that hardly make a difference?
And lastly, should I just wait and get somthing else like the Honda or Toyota come June? With the GM Smartbuy, I should be able to get a van in the $325-$350 range, I don't know if I could get a comparable van from them in the same range.
Any and all advice is welcome. I've learned a lot from this site.
One more thing, this van will be the primary vehicle for my wife, and she isn't all that picky. It only gets driven about 8-10k miles a year at most. I am also going to need another commuter car soon (thinking Honda Civic) so I need to keep both payments reasonable. Thanks!
irg : Strange that the Saturn isn't a bit cheaper given it's a fixed price? Also, are you sure you are comparing apples to apples with these vans in terms of options?
Pretty much, I am trying to compare the exact same models with the same features. Evne though they are all GM, they seem to package their vehicles diffrently, which makes it very confusing. I test drove a Uplander LT AWD last night. Nice van by the way. I need the AWD in the upstate NY region. Anyway, the only options this one had was the remote starting $175, and a 6 disc changer, somewhere like $500. The MSRP is $32,895. A similarly equipped Pontiac SV6 (need to include the convenience package, climate package and side airbags to be similar)is $30,930. Not a huge difference, but some.
Part of the reason I think is that both Pontiac and Buick offer the AWD versions in 2 models, for Potiac the 1SA or 1SB, same thing with Buick, whereas the Chevy and Sturn only offer the AWD in their top of the line version, LT for Chevy.
It just struck me as odd, that the Chevy which is supposed to be the budget version, is more $ than the Pontiac, which I always thought was the more sport version, hence somewhat more $. The Saturn and Chevy are pretty close in price, and the Buick the most, but not by a lot.
Problem for me, has been finding one to drive. If they are hard to get, chances of me getting the van near invoice price might be difficult, but the local Pontiac dealer always states that any vehicle is $100 over invoice. We'll see.
While I did like this van, if you don't need or want the AWD version, I think given the relatively little money available in incentives ($1000 now) there are better choices for about the same money. They do look quite sharp in person though. At least the Uplander I drove did.
My biggest complaint though, is that they really should have done the seats better. The fold down seats in the back and middle, aren't as slick as Honda, Toyota or the Caravan. And getting to the back seats seems awkward for adults, fine for kids.
I have a $1500 loyalty reward I want to use before the month is over (6 days) but I think I might be better off waiting just a couple more months before making this decision. Thoughts?
We have a FWD and it's fine on snow, better than I thought it would be. Still, AWD is always nice to have.
4 snows over AWD is my recommendation.
PS I live in Northern Ontario.
I did notice driving the Terraza, and the traction control would kick in now and then. Do you have Stabilitrak with yours? As I was driving this, my salesman confused that with the AWD system (Versatrak). I had to educate him, as they were too different systems. He seemed lost. Anyway, the Stabilitrak is standard on the Buick, I think it is an option on the Chevy LT. For the $400 or so, it seems worth it. But like you said, the biggest advantage is the snow tires.
So how do you like your Uplander LT? What options did you get? The Buick CXL seems to have few options, I think the heated seats and remote start are about it. Even leather is standard. Overall I liked the Buick better, just seems a little more upscale. Not that I need that. I will seldom get to drive it anyway!
Let me know your thoughts on the Uplander. Can I ask you what price you paid? The Buick dealer will selle me the Terraza for $100 over invoice. Or about $28XXX. Seems fair for a new vehicle like this.
How do I like it?
It's a van and it's purpose is to haul vast amounts of people and stuff in comfort - which the Uplander does very well. It's just hard for me to get emotional about this van.
I paid Canadian dollars and had a fleet discount thrown in - but invoice cost seems to be a good place to start.
Hope this helps.
Steve, Host
I too can't get too excited about a van purchase, unlike my kids who can't get me to order one fast enough. All they really care about is the dvd player.
Are the captains chairs in the LT much different than the ones in the LS? That might make it worth, I will have to wait and see one to compare.
I find top of the line trim level with Chev usually is a good choice as it gives the little extras that add value and comfort.
That petty much puts the "new" GM vans at the bottom of the minivan heap in my book. What makes that an even more damning statement is that these are the new kids on the block and one would expect their parent company to have done a better job of reading the market and responding to the competition.
This is a very disappointing effort from the crew at GM. Its not a simple fix either, like the engine or the transmission or the interior but rather the sum of all its deficient parts that makes this the worst van on the market.
I agree with other posters though, a 3.8, 3.9 or 3.6L optional engine would be very welcome. That said, I have NEVER found I had a lack of power in our 3.4L Montana.
I have driven a 2005 Ford Freestar with the 4.2L V6 on several occasions and found it to be a perfectly average vehicle. Its fit and finish, ride, driving position, ergonomics and vehicle dynamics are all acceptable. The second row seats, but especially the third row seats, are a little too low for adult males, but that is rarely a concern. The engine is a little rough on acceleration and the fuel economy kind of stinks. Other than that, its a decent van - just not up to Honda, Toyota or DC standards. But, given the price (with rebates), it may prove to be a good value especially since initial quality reports have been positive.
There was nothing - nothing - about the Buick that I would point to as being better than the Mercury. And, after reading the recent issue of Car and Driver I don't think a test drive would change my opinion.
Of course,this is my specific circumstance.
I think though, that the DC vans, especially the Grand Caravan SXT may offer the best overall value, better than the Honda and Toyota too. Those seats are impressive, and if GM did that at least with their back seats, they would win me. But they did nothing in this department, and that bothers me. But the overall interior feel/look is quite nice.
The bottom line will be price though, and I can see why going for the Uplander is a good van with the right incentives. I am going to keep looking for a while longer. irg
Every review I have read has stated the Fords/Merc drive more truck like than car/minivan. May not be that big a deal for some, but I will put that out there. AT least the GM drives nicely, and they all have very nice interiors now. And the Merc's gas mileage is one of the worst for the minivan market. Kia being the other.
Both GM and Ford have not made the full attempt at making the "ultimate" van that Honda Toyota and DC have put forth. But I don't think the GM is the worst on the market. I think Ford or Kia have that title all wrapped up to themselves.
Kia is junk, no question.
Honda and Toyota are likely about the best but you have to pay $$ dearly.
Chrysler is likely the best value but I am still a little wiery of those always shifting DCX transmissions.
I have yet to drive a new GM van but the dash is really nice and the auto start, standard DVD / OnStar and bigger wheels make it a viable alternative. Add in some incentives and it should be great. We love out 04 Montana so I can't imagine how the new vans couldn't be even better.
Adequate power is in the eye of the beholder. Some people can live with this level of performance, others want more. Why should GM settle for less when Honda and Toyota (and even Ford and Chrysler) offer more?
I understand that vans aren't supposed to win the pole at Daytona, but they shouldn't be rolling road slugs either.
Maybe 0.00001 percent of the time?
My experience with the 4.2 Ford in the Freestar was satisfactory. A mountain of torque at low rpm makes for a relaxed highway ride - even on hilly terrain. I wonder how much gear hunting goes on with the 3.5V6/four speed automatic in the 4500 pound GM vans?
Please don't think of me as a GM basher. My last two cars have been GM products (Chevrolet and Oldsmobile). I love the Malibu and Cobalt. I think they are top notch cars that offer tremendous value. Cadillac is producing some wonderful machines. The Canyon is pretty nice little truck. But these new vans are not very good - period.
By the way, my local Lincoln-Mercury dealer is offer 2005 Montys with the mid-level package (nicely equipped) for $22,000. That is a good value.
For me, max horsepower is of little use. We go pick up my daughter from day care, commute to work in rush hour traffice that crawls, go to the sprawl-mart shopping, etc. Even on road trips the 3.4 has good torque and excellent gearing that lets it loaf at 80 mph while getting 26-27 mpg. I don't know the top end speed but it easily goes 90, which given the intended use of the vehicle, is plenty fast. Heck, even in rush hour traffic with AC on we get 22-23 mpg.
Can I rule the stop light drags? No, but I'm not in high school anymore and I'm usually listening to the radio and comfortable in my leather bucket seat, so the van is different attitude - at least for us.
The H and T vans are nice, no doubt, but also expensive.
DD
Still, I really hope GM offers the new 3.9L as an option next year. Add in DOD and some air curtains and this van will be a much stronger contender.
I think the GM vans will sell well (seem to be already). The SUV look is a nice niche for anti-van people.
SV6 1638, Montana 461 / Uplander 3519, Venture 1070
Jan 03
Montana 1200 / Venture 2808
source http://www.gm.com/company/news_events/press_releases/
I see Saturn sold another 1283 and Buick 801. Add it all up and these vans sold 7241 units in January.