Chevy Uplander/Pontiac Montana SV6/Saturn Relay/Buick Terraza

irg · February 2005

I just went into my Chevy dealer again, and now the incentive is up to $1500 on the Uplander (and I guess all of the GM vans). My dealer can't get any more delivered to their dealership yet. The saleslady I spoke with (more knowledgeable than any of the guys I've met) said that the first batch of vans weren't deemed to be of high enough quality, and were given to reps only. The cause she said, was something to do with the floor carpeting which wasn't laid down as smooth as it should have been. Not a big deal in her words. But it does show I guess, that rather than sell a product that isn't 100%, fix it right, and then sell it to the customer. Maybe GM is finally learning.

I am also interested in buying a small truck (or midsize, as most of the small trucks have grown in size) and I very much like the Colorado for it size, pretty good power (for my needs) and decent gas mileage - which for me is more important than how fast it can go at a stoplight. $2k incentive for that right now.

Now if I can get my customer loyalty cash back, I might buy both.

Anyone know with the Smart Buy option, how you can get around paying the entire amount of taxes, like with a lease (where you pay only the tax on the actual number of lease payments, and not the cost of the entire vehicle)? That is one of my biggest issues at the moment. Two new vehicles generate a lot of tax in NYS at 8.25%. I could roll it into the payment, but then the payment is bigger, which I don't like either.

vanman1 · February 2005

We bought our car from a female sales rep and she was great. I think women try harder as they are competing in a predominantly male business. I prefer the female reps. if I can find them.

I heard some of the new vans got called back but there seems to be lots of supply around here anyway. I'm sure GM is cranking them out fast so supply will be coming soon. Did she say when more might come?

Nice review in the local Globe and Mail paper this morning. They tested the short wheel base Uplander and loved it.

irg · February 2005

I didn't know there was going to be a short wheel base Uplander. For my needs, I can't see the point. But for others or for delivery needs, I can understand.

The sales lady did not indicate when more vans were coming. I live in a fairly small community in upstate NY, and so far, I have seen not one on road. I have test driven the only two vans here, the Uplander AWD and a Buick CXL. I am going to test drive the Grand Caravan SXT this weekend. If the cost and/or monthly payments are similar, it will be hard to pick the GM over the DC. The DC just has more thoughful features on it, but driving it will also be a determining factor.

vanman1 · February 2005

Short wheel base is only available here in Canada.

My biggest complaint with the Chrysler vans is the transmission which shifts too much, especially when going up and down hills with the cruise on. It literally drove me crazy. Otherwise it's a solid choice. Good luck.

wheelz4 · February 2005

Here's the review link:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20- 050203/WHUPLANDER03/TPEntertainment/?query=uplander

Decent review, although with a few errors.

(Short wheelbase version is Canada-only, BTW)

cnew21 · February 2005

My husband and I saw this in the mall earlier this week. Looked decent enough and $4K less than Honda.

Do the 2nd row windows roll down like in the new Odyssey or just vent out?

Thanks.

irg · February 2005

I don't think the 2nd row does either. The third row windows are power vented out, that's it. I think this is a mixed bag. While it would be nice to have the 2nd row roll down, with little kids like I have, I kinda like that they don't. Anyway, it seems like in the summer you keep windows up and turn on the AC, and in winter, you rarely want to roll down the windows either. A sunroof would have been a nice option, one the GM doesn't offer on any of its models.

The Honda, Toyota and Mazda vans have 2nd row opening windows like a car. For me, this feature isn't much of tie breaker in any way.

cnew21 · February 2005

Thanks for the reply. I didn't think they did but I wanted to check. That's kind of a bummer. My kids are 6 and 2 and I like the idea of them being able to see out of the window.

I too wish this had a sunroof. It seems like they take up a lot of space with the DVD player and the rails. I would much rather have the sunroof.

vanman1 · February 2005

I don't understand why people want roll down back windows. With little kids, I can't imagine. Even in our car, it's rare that the back windows are ever open. The rear power vent windows are much preferable.

irg · February 2005

Ha, all my kids (3 and 5 and one due in July) care about is the dvd player! I don't know about you, but I am somewhat leery about driving with the windows open. One or both of my kids is apt to throw something out when driving lol. And with the sunroof, although it would be nice, seems like one more thing to go wrong, and they add extra weight/cost. The feature I wish the Uplander had most was the rear seat folding into the floor, not just folding over. At least it is a split design, unlike Ford or Nissan. And the Uplander is also being discounted $1500 right now. You should be able to get a fairly loaded LT model with the discount for around $26,200 plus tax. Pretty hard to find the Honda or Toyota with the same features for the $.

Biggest problem I have had is finding the new GM vans. Very few in my area yet. I guess the longer I wait, the more the discounts will be. I like that!

wasdiesel · February 2005

Have had my Terraza CXL for 3 weeks with about 3000km, and have noticed the following things:

1. Upon driving through a tunnel the headlights and instrument lights never turned on automatically, even though we noticed other vehicles with the same technology having their lights come on. Probably some adjustment.

2. If you manually turn on the headlights, the dash lights come on, but the dial indicators(pointers) will not unless the ambient light is low enough for automatic lighting.

3. The voltage indications in the DIC have shown between 12.1 and 15.1 volts when driving even at over 100km/hr.

4. When driving the headlights and dash lights constantly go up and down in brightness. Not enough to cause problems with truckers but enough to become irritating.

5. The CXL came with the trailer pack, and we ordered a Class II hitch from the parts department. But when we went to have it installed it does not fit due to the placement of the exhaust pipe and muffler. We purchased a Class III 'REESE' 44099 which fits perfectly.

6. If you want to have an electronic brake controller installed, no one seems to have the wiring diagram for accessing the brake switch cold side. When I discover, I will let you all know

vanman1 · February 2005

Other than the apparent lighting issues, how do you like the van?

irg · February 2005

I would have #4 addressed by the dealer. Sounds like the alternator/battery current is not stable. In any event with a new van like this, I would want it to be flawless.

just4fun2 · February 2005

No. 4, I believe that this has been mentioned before here. There is a TSB out and GM is working on a fix for this problem. Check back a couple of pages and I believe you will find other people who purchased these new vans are having the same problem.

cnew21 · February 2005

My husband totally agrees. He was asking me for examples of when I have the back windows down in our car!!

cnew21 · February 2005

I'm guessing that my kids would only care about the DVD player as well. It's me (mom) who wants the sunroof. I'm only 27 and have owned two cars. I have my wants too!! lol

We are going to check out the Uplander tomorrow. I received an internet quote of $28,199.70 for an LT w/ Conv. & Security Packages and includes destination. The discount through my husband's job is for $27,761.63.

We'll see. I agree with you about finding those features in the Honda or Toyota for the $. I'm definitely heading in this direction. Of course I'm still pondering an Explorer so who knows...

irg · February 2005

I know, the SUV vs. the minivan image. I have an Explorer now, and it is not an image thing for me. Albeit it is older, but I can hardly wait to get rid of it. The 4x4 is nice though when we have large amounts of snow here. But the van is so much more practical for families. I drove a new Explorer for work recently, and it was fairly decent, but the "utility" part of it pales in comparison to a van. The one feature I like of the vans, is the power opening doors, which will be very convenient for my wife, especially when we have the 3rd kid.

I'm trying to decide now, on my car, and a small truck would be handy, like the Ford Explorer Sport Track or the Chevy Colorado 4 door. Not sure whether I can swing 2 new vehicles or not.

But the van's also cost less to insure, something else to consider, and they get better gas mileage. Probably safer too. Get the leather seats if you want to splurge on yourself.

vanman1 · February 2005

Insurance is real cheap on Montana vans. Compared to a Trailblazer, it was about 35-40% less for us.

infinia1 · February 2005

can anyone tell me the difference between the 2 middle seat options of the uplander? the chevrolet website has one listed as "modular" seats and the other as "captain" chairs. they look the same to me in the pictures. what i'm looking for is if there are seats available like the ones in my 02 venture; they are 2 seats side-by-side with the one on the passenger side having a built-in child seat, with walk-thru space to the rear on the passenger side.

are the DRLs (in) the actual headlights or the parking/signal lights like on my 02 venture? thanks.

tjhsmith · February 2005

The captains chairs have arm rests and are a little larger than the modular seats. One of the two second row modular chairs includes a built-in child seat. The are three slots available for configuring the two modular chairs. They can both be on the outsides with a pass-through in the middle (or the middle can hold an optional removable "toy bin" storage cube). Or the chairs can be side-by-side -- one in the middle position and one on the outside near either rear door. The modular seats also fold flatter than the captains chairs. If you get the captains chairs, you can't get the storage cube, but get a fold-down tray like the one between the two front seats. I have the modular seats with the storage cube option.

samnoe · February 2005

Did anyone here read the review this month in Consumer Reports? They rated the new Ody at the top, following by the Sienna, Dodge Grand Caravan, and bottom of the list is the Saturn Relay, which have many "lows": ride; noise; agility; interior flexibility; squeaks and rattles; headlights, and blind spot. The ONLY good thing they found is the optional AWD. They even put it below the Ford Freestar!

They rated the new Buick LaCrosse very good, though.

vanman1 · February 2005

No surprise on Consumer Reports. They look at everything from a very practical and safety standpoint and I'm sure if a van has no stuff and hide seats it automatically goes to the back of the pack. Further the lack of side curtain option would be a major mark against the Relay.

Basically the more boring and safe a car is, the better the CR rating.

tjhsmith · February 2005

Yeah, I read the CR review of the Relay. I thought their judgement was too harsh and don't agree with some of their conclusions. It may not be best in class, but it's still a great vehicle.

I took delivery of my Chevy Uplander LS about two weeks ago and love it. I did my homework -- read every review of the new GM vans and others and test drove the Ody, Sienna, T&C, Uplander and Terazza.

The general concensus among all the many reviews seems to be that the GM vans are good, but not best in class. After test driving them I guess I agree somewhat, but I still like the GM vans better overall.

Equipped the way I wanted, the actual price paid for the Uplander was thousands less than the Ody and Sienna, plus, again, I just liked it better.

I liked overall ride and handling of the GM vans better than all but the Honda. The GM vans were quieter than all but the Toyota. No squeaks, no rattles, fit and finish is flawless -- the best I've seen from GM. I liked the Uplander's styling inside and out way better than the others.

I must admit the engines/drivetrains of the Honda/Toyota/Nissan are superior, but the GM 3.5 is more than adequate in this application.

Fold into the floor seats and airbags aimed at every body part of every passenger are nice features, but I find the Uplander practical and safe enough without them -- and it has some nifty features of its own standard DVD and great interior storage options.

The research and test drives convinced me that that the GM vans were great vehicles, even though they lacked a few refinements of some competitors. In the end, I just bought what I liked.

infinia1 · February 2005

tjhsmith...i have just returned from my dealer after looking over an uplander ls; but i did not drive it. it had the "modular" seats. the only difference i saw between the seats was that the modulars don't have arm rests. i checked for the floor slots that you said would allow the modular seats to be placed side-by-side. they were not present.

i've answered my own questions about the DRLs. the lower light on the bumper is the DRL and the signal light. also i noticed the when the wipers are in intermittent mode, the lie flat, at the base, as if they were off. this is in contrast to the venture where the left wiper would stay up when on intermittent.

the interior is a huge improvement!

CHEVROLET...WHY can't i get an ls with stabilitrak???!!! i don't want an lt, which has leather and captain chairs.

maybe i'll want a year for bigger rebates and a possible 3900. i'll drive it soon though.

tjhsmith · February 2005

I don't know why the van you looked at didn't have the slots to allow you to move one of the seats to the middle. My Uplander LS does. The middle slots are presently taken up by the optional "toy bin," but I can remove the bin and move one of the seats over into the middle slots if I want to. There are three sets of identical floor slots in the second row of my van and I can move the seats and/or storage bin into any of them.

Waiting for bigger rebates is probably a good idea. I didn't have that luxury. I needed something right away. Including GM loyalty, my rebates totaled $2500. Not too bad, but not so good compared to the $5000 rebate I got on our 03 Rendezvous.

dan165 · February 2005

Looking at the Uplander, it's interior is almost as nice as the Terazza. I guess if you want the added refinement or you like the look, go for the Terazza, but I think the Uplander is a great value with a nice interior.

cla1 · February 2005

I was surprised at the negativity of CR; they must have gotten a lemon. We've had our Terraza CXL about 3 weeks, it is the quietest vehicle we've had ever--certainly no sqeaks, rattles, etc that CR noted. I know the Buick has IRS and more insulation, but I was surprised at their report. I agree with above that the Honda and Sienna lead the pack, but as noted above, the GM's are pretty nice. The 4-5k I saved makes up for it, and I actually now like both the looks outside and the view from inside; it's nice to see more of the hood than I was accustomed to in the Silo (01) and the Venture (98) that we had. Overall we're very pleased.

motorcity57 · February 2005

Diesel,

What kind of towing do you use the Terraza for? Do you find the horsepower adequate? I am contemplating a new Terraza, but I'm a bit concerned because I have twin jet-skis (about 2500lbs. including trailer) that I occasionally tow. I know it's rated to tow 3500lbs., but how well does it really perform?

Also, is the Reese 44099's crossbar visible under the back bumper?

Thanks in advance.

wasdiesel · February 2005

I am towing a PACE CargoSport 5x10 trailer. It weighs about 1100lbs empty, and I probably have 700 or 800 lbs of 'stuff' inside. What the Terazza CXL does is require increased rpms to maintain cruising at 110k (67mph). Thus increased fuel consumption.

The Reese 44099 shows about 2/3 below the bumper if you look directly from the rear at its height (has to allow for the 2x2 socket for the drawbar.

I have resolved the trailer wiring and my Tekonsha Prodigy is working flawlessly. (It is a 'white' wire in the harness above the brake pedal (about 20 wires in the bundle.

irg · February 2005

I too read the CR article, and admit I was surprised at their reactions. I thought the Uplander and Terraza drove quite nicely, but I haven't driven the Toyota or Honda. I need to do that I guess to compare apples to apples. I was not that impressed with the Dodge. The interior is very dull.

Question, how are the seats in the LS, specifically the middle row? I have 2 kids, soon 3. In the middle row, one will be an infant, so that seat will be rear facing. The other child is 3 1/2 so forward facing, and soon only a booster seat. My oldest child 5 will be in a booster seat a little while longer I think, and she will get the back seat to herself. Are the middle seats in the LS better for kids than the LT? I like the LT model overall, and when I add up the sport suspension for both, the convenience package for both, etc. the prices are much different.

What options did you get on the LS? I have yet to see an LS, my dealer only has one awd LT, and it was fine, but I want an LS to compare it to. How much did you pay for it if I can be so bold? I am waiting on another GM loyalty coupon since the last one expired before I could use it. At least the rebate is now $1500, but like you, I will need to purchase soon, regardless of whether the rebates keep growing.

tjhsmith · February 2005

irg -- Options on my LS were: "Easy order pkg" which includes power passenger side rear door, power driver seat, aluminum wheels and roof rails; "Cargo convenience center" which includes various storage bins; and "remote starter." If I were ordering the vehicle instead of buying what they had on the lot, I would have liked to get the option package that includes the rear parking assist and second power door. I have no use for the remote starter. I prefer leather seats, but the custom cloth seats on my LS are pretty nice. DVD, Onstar and a great audio system are standard.

Sticker price on the van was $28,920. Dealer gave me $2100 discount, plus at the time there was a $1000 rebate on the vehicle and I also had a $1500 GM loyalty, so my final price was $24320.

I'm not sure how to answer your question about the second row seats. It's a minivan, so I'm sure they'll accommodate any kid or type of car seat. I have two girls age 7 and 4. The van has the modular seats and both girls seem very comfortable in them. (I sat in them to try them out, but they're a little narrow with no arm rests and I would prefer the third row if I ever had to sit in the back.) The 4-year-old can sit in the built-in child seat, but she's right on the edge of being to big for it.

I will admit the Uplander is not the "best" van on the market, but it's a great vehicle and the one I liked best. It was the styling of this van -- inside and out -- that ultimately made me like it better than all the others.

motorcity57 · February 2005

Regarding the middle row seats, you may want to consider ease of access to the third row. The LT seats (captains chairs) do not flip/tumble forward so it's a bit more difficult getting into the third row. In addition, the captains chairs are wider, so the aisle between the two seats is quite narrow. On the other hand, the captains chairs are much more comfortable, especially for the long trips. My kids are older (teens) so I'm looking at the Terraza with the captains chairs. With younger ones I could see the LS-style seats being more practical.

infinia1 · February 2005

i "built my own" van, on each division's website, to compare. the uplander lt, montana sv6 1sb, and terraza cx, all with stabiltrak (includes traction control), fwd, remote starter, aluminum wheels, trailer package, sport suspension, and a few other options to make all 3 comparable, are all within $30,300 msrp, +/- $500.

my thinking says the chevrolet should be less, not equal to the pontiac and buick. i think all 3 are overpriced compared to the competition (for what you get anyways).

i've decided to wait for high rebates that seem inevitable, in order for this purchase to be a better value than it currently seems. just look at what happened with the freestar rebates (not that i would buy a ford). the new kia sedona seems to trump the gm vans in all areas (5 speed auto, fold flat rear seat, higher hp v6, etc), but i just can't see myself buying a kia, plus there's no local dealer. WAKE UP GM!

sundevil99 · February 2005

We've had our LS Uplander for a little more than a month. We absolutely love it. It has the LS Easy Order Package for options.

Seating

I have a 3 & 5 year old. The middle row seating is fine for them. Yes, the seats do look a little narrow and they don't have armrests, but my kids don't complain. I think their fine for adults on short trips. The narrowness of the seats allows for very easy access to the third row.

Price

I emailed several dealers and got a pretty good price. He gave me $300 under invoice, the $1500 rebate, and another $1000 in 'GM Certificates' for a total of $2800 under invoice. I also used $1000 of my GM Mastercard earnings. So, before tax/title/license, I paid about $22,400. Out the door, I paid just over $25k.

Good luck.

kermode · February 2005

Ordered a montana sv6 van now need to find items like running boards etc. GM does not have a wide selection of items available, splash guards etc. Has any body found running boards for sale etc. Appreciate any help.

vanman1 · February 2005

The Buick is basically the Chevy with all the options. You do get some better sound reducing materials and a better suspension, but that's about it. The 3.9L or 3.6L should be offered on the Buick to truly make it a premium van, I have said that from the get go.

If I was buying today though, I would get a Chevy with a few options. I don't need a loaded up vehicle.

infinia1 · February 2005

i realize they are the same van. however, as you somewhat stated, the buick offers independent rear suspension and a quiter ride which the chevrolet does not, for essentially the same price.

i've decided to keep driving my 02 venture ls for now; 42k with no problems. maybe next year the 3.9 or 3.6 will be offered, along with bigger rebates. for the models i'm interested in, these vans do not offer value at their current prices compared to the competition.

dirkwork · February 2005

The 3.5 is the same engine (just more displacement added) as what they have been making for years, the 3.4 pushrod. Its compact and fuel efficient, and has a lot of torque, but just FYI, its not really a favorable comparison to Honda and Toyota or even Nissan and Dodge for that matter in terms of high tech and power output/smoothness.

I have a 3.4 and its OK but a new van could use a new motor, like one of the ones they have developed. The VUE uses a Honda, perhaps the Saturn should use the Honda? That would be nice.

DD

sfg · February 2005

I just wanted to share my findings over the last two months of looking for a replacement for our van.

I have an 01 Olds Sil Premiere. It has 98K miles and we were looking to replace. Here are the vans we have driven

Honda - We fully expected to buy this van. We were looking at the step below the touring. We walked out 30 minutes later. The seats were not very comfortable and the passenger seat on ALL trim levels is a 4 way manual. How cheesy. the one we drove had a good amount of engine noise. I also thought the steering wheel was small. We did like the engine accel and handling and the storage.

Buick - We drove a CX but would buy a CXL if that is our choice. Accel was good no great, handling was very good. Exceptionally quiet. - Downer no nav system yet. Also a fully loaded CXL can be had for 29300 at the moment (After GM points) the same fomr H and N is 35K

Toy - Drove an XLE today. I must say we were very dissappointed. The transmission kept hunting, the handling was mushy, the van was blown about very easily by teh stiff wind (We drobe our van and teh Nissan on the same path to make sure)and it was expensive as hell. XLE - No DVD 35000

Nissan - We liked this van a lot. The pod is a little funcky but the thing drove very nicley. I loved the handling. We didn't like that the captains chairs do not slide back at all in the second row so third row seating is a little tight, Also no split in the third row. Still this one is a finalist. Fully loaded (with NAV and all ) can be had for 35300

I have found that auto reviewers feel H and T can do no worong, but although good vehicles, I cannot say they are by any means perfect. I think teh GM vans provie a lot of value. I do with they had the curtain air bags however.

Well we are driving the Nissan again tomorrow with the kids. The Buicks are hard to find around here. I may just hold onto mine longer and wait for the Buicks to become more plentiful and the rebate to increase.

jnt · February 2005

I was pleasantly surprise on the nice interiors of GM new minivans. They are huge improvement over the previous generation.

JT

irg · February 2005

Good overall assessment. I keep coming back to the GM vans too, regardless of what CR and others say. If GM had done just two things, a slightly better engine with a 5 speed automatic, and a fold away back row seat instead of the fold over thing they have, it would be near the top in my book. I think the interiors are very nice, in both the Chevy and Buick form. Much nicer than the DC vans. Nissa van styling is subjective, and I think it will look dated sooner than later. But if you only keep a vehicle for 3-4 years like I do, then it isn't a big issue. I just wish Nissa made the back seat a split desin, like most of the others. FOr me, (3 kids) this missing feature gets it crossed of my list. Ditto for Ford.

The Chevy is almost as nice as the Buick, and with the LT (or LS) ordered with the Sport Suspension, should handle as good as the Buick. I didn't think it was any louder than the Buick, but hard to tell with one test drive. If prices are close, I would go with Buick CXL, otherwise the Chevy is a pretty value overall.

I just wish there were more on the lots. Almost nothing where I live. I kinda wonder why GM is so slow to get these models out? Future discounts will definitely make these models more attractive, but I need to make a decision relatively soon, so the better discounts may be after I buy. But I don't forsee much on Honda, Toyota, or Nissan either. Only Ford and DC seem to have large discounts, and neither of these vans are very desireable to me.

irg · February 2005

I'm not sure about this, but is the Sport Suspension package on the Uplander (for both LS and LT models, fwd) the same as what is on the Buick? The Buick did not seem much quieter to me than the Chevy, or maybe it is the Chevy is also pretty quiet.

I do think GM is well advised to put more engine in their vans. The 3.5 is ok, but it is not the equal of the 3 Japanese. the 3.9 would be a good substitue, or at least an option. Should be standard on the Buick CXL model. If they can put the 3.9 and a 5.3 in a Chevy Monte Carlo (2006) they can put it in these vans.

I disagree with your overall value though - these vans, even brand new, will sell close to invoice, and offer rebates of $1500 already. Real world prices are different than the MSRP. You will pay close to sticker for the Honda, and forget about rebates for both them and Toyota. And with all of the features that are standard on these vans, to get the same on the Toyota, Honda or Nissan, their prices will be significantly more.

If you lease/smart buy like I will, the prices are more competitive than the Japanese brands (I've been comparing). If you buy outright, and keep your vehicle for 3-5 years, the depreciation for the GM vans will be substantially more, and then the Japanese vans offer more value.

So not all situations are the same. A basic Sienna like the CE is a real good value if all you want is basic transportation. But when you add on some or a lot of the extras the other models offer, it isn't such a good value.

irg · February 2005

Well yesterday I drove the Sienna. I have to reply to the other poster #1829 who didn't like it, that the transmission hunted around, blown around by wind, etc. After reading your post, and then driving one myself, I almost think you must be a Buick salesman! Seriously, this van was much nicer than I expected. The engine/trans were superior to the GMs in every way. I felt like I was driving a nice car, not a van. The GM is nice, but you know you're driving a van.

I drove the LE Sienna, with package #6. The dealer's price was $27,6xx. Right around the Edmunds TMV. Plus Toyota is offering good lease deals now on the CE and LE. What I like most of the Sienna, is the LE 8 passenger. Both my wife and I see a lot of advantages to this version. FOr others, it isn't a big deal. I loved the rear fold away seat too, much better design than the GM.

The only downside is that this van has a few less features, only 1 power sliding door, no Onstar, but it does offer better safety features like side airbags (included in this package) and I bet the GM will not be able to match Toyota's overall safety record, let alone reliability and resale.

So I am in a conundrum, I liked the GM vans, but it is obvious to me now, that the Sienna is a better van period, and that with the 8th seat and nearly same selling price, this should be the van I choose. If I can figure out how to unload two vehicles, and buy two new ones in the next month or so, I will probably go for the Sienna. I will probably be even more confused if I drive the Odyssey! If the incentives on the GM vans get better, they will continue to offer good overall value, but with the price of these two vans pretty similar, the Toyota seems like the better value now.

One other thing, the gM does offer the dvd standard, but I can add a similar unit from BB for about $400, so that isn't the deal breaker. Both vans have features/options I like, but overall I am swayed towards the Toyota now.

tamu2002 · February 2005

We checked out the Uplander this past weekend. I already drove it a while ago, but wanted my wife to check it out since she'd be the one driving it. I was surprised to be greeted with the same van I test drove a few months ago, only in a worse condition. The carpet was mudy, the sunglass holder on the roof rail already came loose on one side.

After driving it, my wife felt the van

--handled quite well but the engine was a bit underpowered;

--The seats were very comfortable, but she felt the horizontal spokes on the steering wheel were too thick and wide to hold on to for the size of her hands (Has any of you ladies or anyone else' wife had this issue?);

--Another sticking point was the lack of the deep storage well behind the 3rd row, and the 3rd row seat not folding into the floor. I sat on the 3rd row seat and felt the head room was really tight and the width was really only good enough for 2 people, but again you can probably say that about a lot of the vans out there.

In the end my wife kept coming back to saying she liked the Grand Caravan better, which we had the chance to drive for 2 weeks last year. The caravan is simply more functional, which is of utmost importance for our practical family. But I can still see us own a GM van IF the price is right. We're looking to buy in the summer. The current prices of the new GM vans are not going to cut it for us.

We checked out the Ford Freestar immediately afterwards, and appreciated even more the importance of the rear deep well. The head room of the 3rd row on the Ford was a lot better too due to its low seat height.

infinia1 · February 2005

i finally took the wife and 3 kids to drive the uplander on friday. it was an ls with trailer package, sport suspension, ls easy order package, convenience package, and xm radio. it lacked the storage and organizer package that we would want though. the sound system is much better than our venture. the wife and i were more impressed than i anticipated.

we didn't think that we wanted xm on our future van, but after driving this one, we both agreed we want it now. this van had the modular seats, which weren't too bad. we didn't see a problem with the split second row chairs either, like i thought we would. previously, i had thought we would prefer the setup of out venture seats, a 2 person bench type.

we also liked that you can see the hood while driving versus the venture. the wife said it didn't feel any faster or more powerful than out 02 venture. she thought it felt more like an suv, which i guess is what gm is hoping for. we both agreed the interior is a major improvement. the controls have a much better feel than those of our venture. we also both liked that it has a tachometer, since ventures didn't come with them for some odd reason. it felt tight and drove very well.

ok ok, now i'm "starting" to see "some" value in these vans. however, for the price, i still think they should have a 5 speed transmission, a 3900 v6, curtain airbags, and a "fold-flatter" rear seat. BUT, why is it that an uplander lt is priced within $500 of a terraza cx, both equipped similarly? i would still get the chevrolet, for only the reason that the buick dealer offers terrible service.

it's impossible to build the exact uplander we want. for example, we prefer an ls, but to get stabilitrak, we have to get an lt. an lt forces us to get second row captain's chairs, which lack the built-in child seat we want. it's very frustrating!

irg: the suspensions of the uplander differ from that of the terraza in that the terraza has a rear independent suspension and the uplander does not, in fwd form. in essence then, i believe, the buick comes standard with the sport (touring) suspension.

we will wait for bigger rebates/improvements. but as of now, we will stick with chevrolet despite the few short-commings.

irg · February 2005

I thought the Uplander was overall good, but not great, when compared to the Sienna, which I just drove this past weekend. I originally thought I couldn't afford the Toyota; the reality is that it may actually be cheaper, for one reason is that I lease, and Toyota is still in the leasing business in NYS, whereas GM is not due to lawsuits. So I pay over $1k less in taxes alone. And even if I got the Chevy at invoice, it is very close in price to the Sienna I was looking at. Not exactly apples to apples, but close enough. The Chevy has onstar, the Sienna doesn't, but the SIenna has full side airbags, the GM doesn't. The GM has buil in dvd, which is not on the option list I am looking at for the Sienna. Big deal, I will add an aftermarket unit for a few hundred.

The difference though was the handling and overall perfomance of the Sienna was superior, hands down. Same thing that CR found. If you buy these vans, the Sienna will also be worth more later on.

I'm having problems locating the van I want, and 8 passeneger LE with package #6. Dealer can't locate one, so I may have to order it. They didn't seem to thrilled with that, but I want what I want, and am not settling this time. The Uplander is so hard to find, I am not sure when I would be able to get one.

I think I will also look at the Odyssey today, do my due diligence with all of the vans, except for Ford and Nissan which I have excluded because their back seats aren't a 60/40 design. Right now, the Sienna is offering really good lease specials, not sure if the Honda compete. I see more on my dealer lot than the Sienna though. Details forthcoming.

montanafan · February 2005

"....and I bet the GM will not be able to match Toyota's overall safety record...."

In Insurance Instiute for Highway Safety (IIHS)-Highway Loss Data Institute (HLDI) "Injury. Collision & Theft Losses" annual reports, only once (going as far back as the 1995 models years) has a Toyota Van had a better injury rating then a GM van. The 1996-1998 model year study showed the Sienna with a 64 to the Venture's 66. In the last seven studies, ALL 3 of GM's FWD vans have been rated "substaintialy better then average" 71% of the time (100% for Oldsmobile and Pontiac), whereas Toyota has acheived the rating just 29% of the time.

irg · February 2005

I thought your comparison looked funny. So I checked out IIHS myself. Here is the link I used: http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summaries/vans_f- ront_c.htm

The Montana van got an overall POOR rating for almost every category. The Sienna? Best pick, and it scored the highest category - good - in every test.

I really don't care how these vans each scored 10 years ago, I care about the van I am going to be buy now. If safety were important (and it is to me) I would not be buying the Montana just based on the IIHS tests. Maybe the new van will do better - I don't think it has been tested yet. I hope it does.

But here is a quote on the Montana: "INJURY MEASURES: NECK, LEFT AND RIGHT LEGS POOR A very high neck extension moment occurred, indicating the likelihood of significant neck injury. Left and right lower tibia indices were high, indicating the likelihood of significant injury to both lower legs. The forces on the left lower leg were so high that the dummy's metal foot broke off from its leg at the ankle." Sounds like a real safe vehicle!

I'm not sure where your numbers come from, but mine are right from the link at the IIHS website. I'm comparing today's models, not a decade ago.

vanman1 · February 2005

dirkwork : The 3.5L is a heavily modified 3.4L. It's more refined and quieter, better in every way.

sfg : Our neighbor has a Nissan, it has design issues and lots of rattles. They do not like it.

irg : Chevy LT is almost as nice as the Buick, you are absolutely right.

montanafan · February 2005

I stand confussed and corrected. You implied that GM vans had a poor safety record compared to Toyota. I pointed out infomation on the IIHS site that shows over the years GM's van injury loss scores are almost always better then Toyotas. Now you explain do not care about the safety record, you only care about a single crash test.

I am sorry the infomation I posted wasn't what you were refering to, I can not read minds. Now that I know you do no care about the record, my infomation is inappropriate.

Chevy Uplander/Pontiac Montana SV6/Saturn Relay/Buick Terraza

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