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Maintenance & Repair Costs

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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Looks like $475 + 2 hours labor plus cost to fill the system (refrigerant + labor).

    So yeah, we are getting close to $700 here. But I'm concerned they aren't putting in a new receiver/dryer.

    did your compressor SEIZE or just got noisy?
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    Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter from a large financial newspaper would like to speak to consumers who are holding onto their cars or deferring purchasing a car because of economic downturn. Please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information no later than Friday, January 30, 2009.
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    CarGuy333CarGuy333 Member Posts: 1
    Hello, I have a 1998 Infiniti QX4 3.3 liter engine. I took my SUV into the shop to have the timing belt changed. They had to disconnect an A/C line that was in the way of the timing belt cover. When they were done they said they did an evac/recharge. The day it came back there were green drips under the compressor, which got progressively worse, and now (couple weeks later) the A/C is not blowing cold. I took a look at the A/C line that they disconnected when the SUV came back and I didn’t see any green leaks at the connections. All the drips were coming from underneath the compressor (looked pretty bad/lots of drips). Do you think they could have caused this or do you think it’s just a coincidence? The A/C was working fine for over a year until the day they just touched the car. About a year ago the evap core, condensor, drier, and Xvalve were changed. It was flushed and they did a evac/recharge. But now after the timing belt change, the compressor is leaking where it never was before. Do you think they could have over charged the A/C which caused the compressor seals to leak? Or do you think leaving the system open for a few days caused this? These guys do not specialise in A/C work like the shop that did the A/C work a year ago. Thanks in advance for all your help; I really do appreciate your time.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That sounds more likely to be a coolant leak, not an AC compressor problem, but hard to say not being there. I'd get the car up on a lift and see what's what. I"m trying to think what's "green" that could come out of a compressor? Not enough experience with AC to say for certain but it doesn't sound right.
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    obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    I've seen dyes used for leak detection to be a fluorescent green almost similar to coolant.
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    euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    The repair shop R & R'd the EGR sensor/valve recently, but the OBD II says it is a bad one. The parts supplier will replace the bad one, but the labor to redo is on me. Should not the part manufacturer be responsible for the labor expense of replacing one of their faulty parts?
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    burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    First off, usually no. Supplier warranties usually only cover the part they supply. Secondly, just because OBD II says the part is bad doesn't mean it is. OBD II is only reporting that the sensor has detected a problem with that part, which could be caused by something external to it.
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    euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Makes sense to me. Thank you.

    I thought the OBD II was more definite than that because the mechanic cleaned the EGR passages when he installed the EGR Pressure Sensor.
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    euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Hi Burdawg: You may be right, but I'm optimistic & this is what I sent.

    CSK Auto, Inc.
    Corporate Headquarters
    645 East Missouri Avenue
    Suite 400
    Phoenix, Arizona 85012

    Attn: Warranty Claim Dept.

    Yesterday, my mechanic had to replace one of your EGR POS. Sensors on warrantee.

    I was charged and paid him $75.27 for his labor and am now petitioning you to reimburse that expense to me caused by your faulty part.

    Please send your check in the amount of $75.27 to me as follows:

    Encl: Repair Order #8599 &
    Visa payment copy
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    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    A LOT of the after market part houses give warrantees on most of the major parts they sell, new and rebuilt parts. These usually are in the time period of 90 days to 1 year. For a few dollars more, many of these can be extended to a 'lifetime' warrantee.

    I have NEVER seen one of these warrantees cover the labor of installation.
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    burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    Ditto.
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    jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Dealer's typically warranty parts and labor for 12 mo or 12,000 miles. Also if you use a AAA approved auto repair facility, they may cover labor (I don't believe that this has anything to do with whether or not you are a AAA member):

    http://www.autoclubgroup.com/wisconsin/autos/approved_repair.asp

    Repairs, including parts and labor, are covered by a nationwide warranty of 12 months or 12,000 miles, whichever comes first (unless otherwise noted on the repair order).

    edit: I see that is a link for WI AAA, you can start here to see if this program is the same elsewhere:

    http://www.aaa.com/AAA_Travel/AutoRepair/automobile_repair.htm
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    lhylhy Member Posts: 48
    Can anyone recommend websites that provide comparisons of which model and make of cars are more or less expensive to repair?

    I am looking for websites that give repair cost information on imports like Honda, Toyota, Acura, Nissan, or Hyundai.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You can do that right here at Edmunds!

    True Cost To Own
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    burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    Yes, but the original question was " Should not the part manufacturer be responsible for the labor expense of replacing one of their faulty parts?"
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    lhylhy Member Posts: 48
    Are there any other good sites that offer this information?

    Edmunds only covers used cars to 2003.

    I am looking at buying a used car from the 1990s, most likely.
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    Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter is looking to talk to consumers who are either fixing his/her car or having a mechanic fix up their vehicle instead of purchasing a new one. Please send your email address and phone number to ctalati@edmunds.com by Wednesday, February 25, 2009.
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    jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Yes, but the original question was " Should not the part manufacturer be responsible for the labor expense of replacing one of their faulty parts?"

    I see, but if the installer is giving me a parts and labor warranty, then that would be an issue between the installer and the part manufacturer.
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    euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    The technician, installer, mechanic has this happen too often for him to get involved.

    Had I used the local Ford dealer, the labor for R & R the faulty part would have been covered as guaranteed by the factory.

    In the future, I will go to the dealer.
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    burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    Perhaps, but the installer could be giving you good faith coverage on the labor to win your business now & in the future, even though the chance of remittance from the supplier or manufacturer is not guaranteed.
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    euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Agree, but when we discussed the labor cost of replacing the faulty part, he said it happens too often for him to get involved in "good faith customer retention" work.

    Currently, business is so plentyful, he won't notice missing me. The jobless % in this area is 14+ % so we'll see.
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    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    Going to a dealer will increase the price to more than cover their occasional coverage of labor on a warrented part.
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    euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Agree. You usually get what you pay for and with the dealer you have the warranty insurance not honored by the independent tech.
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    carguy89carguy89 Member Posts: 7
    Hi: I have a few questions regarding driving a car from 120,000km’s(75,000 miles) to 240,000km’s(150,000miles):

    1) When is it likely to need front end work (Tie-rod ends, ball joints, etc)?

    2) The emission system again, how long should the oxygen sensor’s last, and the catalytic converter last?

    3) Based on your experiences would a budget of say $175.00 per month put aside get one through from 120,000 to 240,000+, or would more funds be required? Thanks for everyone’s help much appreciated
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    jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I've found that I can generally keep an older car going for 8-15 cents per mile and/or $500-1500 per year. This covers both repairs and maintenance. So I would say setting aside $175 per month should be more than enough, in most cases.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'd agree with that, too. I've kept even rather expensive-to-fix cars going at $175 a month. In fact the worst car I ever owned cost me about that.

    As for front end work, usually suspension starts to weaken or deteriorate at around 80,000 miles, although this is so gradual that many people never notice it until they replace the worn parts, and then they marvel at the difference.
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    5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    I ran up to Tucson yesterday to order a half shaft for our Toyota Avalon.
    It has a torn boot. I didn't even bother to get a dealer quote.

    First I Went to Fletcher Auto - a chain. $125 to replace boot
    with no CV joint clean and repack. $600+ to replace half shaft. WOW! Another
    estimate was 200 for boot and repack (but the counter guy wasn't sure about the repack). Who knows, maybe they used a zipper type where you don't even have to tear everything apart.

    I asked around, then found garage who would do the rebuilt half shaft with a 1 yr guarantee for 200. I was going to go with him, but then. there was a retired body
    guy that does painting on the side, and he refered me to another guy near his shop.
    $75 bucks labor for a 2 hour job, and I furnish the part. He said Autozone has a
    lifetime guarantee on half shaft, which is only 70 bucks, but had to pay in advance
    as it was a special order. Sure pays to shop around, and it ain't rocket science.
    $150 I can handle. There are options. You just have to find them.

    I did all brakes with rotors and ceramic pads for under $300 too. A dealer charged someone else $1300. This is posted in another forum. Avalon, 04 and prior, I think. You can search 55396 to find the discussion.
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    5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "On Tuesday the dealer replaced the rotors and brake pads on all 4 wheels of my 2000XLS at a draw dropping price of $1,018 (after a 10% discount)."

    I just saw your post as I was searching for what someone recommended for aftermarket rotors that were superior to OEM. I just bought an aftermarket rear bearing/hub assembly for our 03 AV. $85 with a 2 year warranty. $300+ at the dealer? Taiwan, but who cares? Labor, about 1 hour @ $48/hr. OK, I took it to a local junk yard. Mechanic builds and races stock cars and seems top rate. New rotors would be $20-30. Pads are almost gone. $20 for OEM. $40 for ceramic.

    I just talked to NAPA and they quoted me $45 per rotor. They didn't have drilled. Then I spoke to my mechanic at the junk yard. He quoted me $22 for grooved rotors. Quess what? He got em from NAPA. He must have not marked them up from his cost. Now that's treating the customer right. So, we are doing a rear hub and bearing assembly, turning the rear rotors, new grooved front rotors, and new ceramic pads all around. Not sure what the total will be.

    Well, I picked up the Avalon from the junk yard. Brakes have a really nice feel with the ceramic pads that Todd recommended. Very quick with a solid performance feel. This may lessen a bit as they break in, but I hope not much. I like it. We will break them in gently until the surfaces wear in to each other.

    With the previously installed KYB GR2 HD struts ($209/set new on ebay plus installation and alignment) and Energy Poly sway bar bushings, this has become quite a sporty feeling car to drive. I agree with ABFisch, very BMW like. This is now a very enjoyable car to drive, and I don't even have the rear bushings installed yet. I couldn't believe the difference the front bushings alone made. I highly recommend them. At about 30 bucks, you can't beat the improvement. If your struts are weak, this should firm things up a bit too. I did ours before the struts, ant it was very noticeable. My wife was thrilled with the difference. Now that says alot.

    A rear wheel bearing started to go on the trip home from Arizona 2 years ago, but didn't seem to get any louder, so made another trip last year fully loaded. Still no change, but I thought I had better not push my luck. Good thing probably, as it takes considerable effort to rotate the old one. More of a lube problem than anything. I can usually lube a bearing and free it up, but this one isn't responding well, so I assume it's the outer bearing that I can't get to. I'll let it sit a day or 2 to see if oil gets down to it.

    Anyway, I bought a new bearing/hub assembly online for $82, and Todd installed it. I probably could have - only 4 bolts, but didn't want to this time. At 68k, the pads were quite thin, so we replaced them with ceramic. and turned the rear rotors as Todd said they rarely warp. In retrospect, I would have gone new, as the cost was only slightly more. Should be fine though, as only needed to clean them up because they weren't warped. Fronts were warped and pulsating, so we replaced them with grooved aftermarket rotors. Bearing/hub labor was only $33.80. I won't dirty my hands for that. Turning the rear rotors and all other labor came to $78. $20 for 'shop supplies' seemed excessive, but no complaints at this price.

    So, my out the door total including tax was $283.18, plus the hub/bearing that I supplied. Helluva deal.

    My theory is that when coming to a stop and holding the brakes on causes the heat to remain under the pads while the rest of the rotor cools, possibly causing the warpage. So, we try to brake early and more lightly, then stop about 10-12 feet back at an intersection. The rotors don't get so hot with easy braking, but then we also let the car creep ahead so that the rotors cool more evenly. It's my wife's car, and while she says she practices this, I notice that she sometimes, um, forgets.
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    obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    When you state that the rotors were replaced with grooved rotors, do you mean slotted? When I think of a grooved rotor I think of a rotor that has grooves caused by a worn pad.

    image
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    5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    "do you mean slotted?"

    These were shorter, wider, and curved. I'm guessing they were cast in, then remained after machining.
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    luciepluciep Member Posts: 3
    The Mini Cooper dealer installed new breaks & discs on my 2005 Mini Cooper last fall – 54,000 km. Original problem was I had vibration in the front left side when braking; they looked at the breaks and said they were finished and changed them with new ones (front & back).

    I now have 58,000 km and the problem started again; they say it is because I do not do lots of mileage and it is normal. This car is not my 1st one and it does not seem “normal” to me. I read on some sites that it is a known problem with Mini breaks (rotor does not wear evenly). Is there a solution?
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Ask the dealer to explain to you with a straight face and not bursting out laughing how brake rotors warp by NOT driving the car. So their position is that Minis will normally go through brake rotors every 4000 km?

    You have to demand that they warranty their work as they are supposed to.
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    vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    Well, if they over-torque the wheel bolts really badly and induce warpage that way, the rotors would pulsate in short order, driven or not.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Good point---that's an "explanation" for rotor warp in 2400 miles but not the one the dealer is likely to give.

    I suppose you could take the MINI racing, get the rotors red hot and then drive through a puddle of ice and slush---that would do it.
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    vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    Of course the dealer would never admit to doing anything wrong, now would they? It is easier to blame the customer.

    No, torque sticks are not a good substitute for a proper torque wrench. And no, using a torque wrench after tightening the lug nuts with an air wrench set to 650 lb-ft is not correct either. A work order that says "No air tools for tightening" and "customer waiting" may induce some dealerships to do the right thing, sometimes.

    I think that if the lug nuts are properly torqued, and if the rotor has been seated properly on the hub after cleaning any corrosion (like they are supposed to be done) then it will take a lot of red hot racing and driving through icy puddles to warp them. :)
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    5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    The factory rotors on some brands are prone to warpage. Is the Mini? It may be worthwhile to check aftermarket rotors, but don't let the dealer off the hook. I put aftermarket on our Avalon. So far, so good.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Sure some cars are under-engineered, but "prone" to warpage is not the same as warpage in 2400 miles, seems to me. I never heard of warpage on the MINI at any rate...it's a very light car and it has fairly beefy rotors. This makes little sense to me that warpage would plague a car of this specification----unless the dealer is putting on Mickey Mouse rotors, I don't know.
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    luciepluciep Member Posts: 3
    Thank you for all your input.
    I was at the dealer yesterday, they did a road test & confirmed the vibration due to a break issue.
    After checking the breaks they noticed the front discs were "defective"; they changed both front discs and verified the rear ones (also new ones installed last November) which were OK.
    They mentioned the pads were correct therefore only the discs were changed.
    No charge for parts & labor because new breaks were under guarantee and because of the factory defect.
    I am happy with the result, thank you for you reply.
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    jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    They're brakes not breaks
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well good this is the proper solution.
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    luciepluciep Member Posts: 3
    Since English is my second language; I am always happy when people correct my mistakes.
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    mrcuda713mrcuda713 Member Posts: 1
    how do you ajust the bands on a automatic trans in a 69 cuda 318 motor
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    euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    18 Feb 09

    CSK Auto, Inc.
    Corporate Headquarters
    645 East Missouri Avenue
    Suite 400
    Phoenix, Arizona 85012

    Attn: Warranty Claim Dept.

    Yesterday, my mechanic had to replace one of your EGR POS. Sensors on warrantee.

    I was charged and paid him $75.27 for his labor and am now petitioning you to reimburse that expense to me caused by your faulty part.

    Please send your check in the amount of $75.27 to me as follows:
    Encl: Repair Order #8599 & VISA payment copy

    Euphonium

    Reply from CKK Auto 16 March 09

    “We have a process available to our customers that request reimbursement for expenses incurred because of an alleged defective product. Simply take the alleged defective sensor, a copy of the receipts for your expenses and the proof of purchase to your local Checker Auto Parts store. Once there, ask the manager in charge to complete a “Customer Reimbursement Request” form and provide the manager with the copies of your receipts.

    You must have all items listed above in order to proceed with your claim. Once the claim is opened, the manufacturer will investigate your claim and we will notify you of the outcome in writing.
    My Reply

    6 April 9

    Senior Claim Administrator
    CSK Auto
    645 East Missouri Avenue, Suite 400
    Phoenix, AZ 85012-1373

    Claim Reimbursement Request #182148

    Dear Mr.

    Your first response itemized what you required be done to establish the claim. I followed your advice as close as I could,
    but it does not meet your approval.

    You letter of the 31 March 9 states: “At the time the EGR Valve was returned no mention was made to our employees that you wished to be reimbursed for expenses you may have incurred.”

    Where in the stores do you have posted your rules for returning defective parts?

    Had your part not been defective, it would not have been replaced. That it was replaced evidences that it was defective. I proved to you already with my letter of 18 Feb 9 that included the Repair Order # 8599 & copy of the Visa payment.

    The rules you cite for returning your defective parts are defective.
    What I did was what any reasonable and good faith customer would do.

    Unknown to me, my mechanic returned the defective part to “Pro Shop” and that is when it should have been tagged by store Manager Steve (?) so as to be tracked into your system. Your letter admits losing track of the defective part and that is not a customers fault.

    CSK Auto purchased the defective part and sold it to my mechanic for a profit, (markup). That profit you took from my mechanic is the profit that includes your responsibility to warrantee the part.

    As my mechanic is not in business of enforcing warranties of your products, he returned your faulty part so as to obtain a replacement.
    In that process, that particular EGR sensor was lost at your local store when it was returned to the store’s source.

    The Repair Order 8599 issued to you in my first letter, 18 Feb 9, that notes “replaced faulty EGR POS. Sensor on warrantee” is really sufficient evidence of your part being defective.

    Considering the above, I expect your check in the amount of $75.27 ASAP.

    Yours truly,

    “Euphonium”

    CSK Reply:
    The Customer Reimbursement Request that you filed with Schuck’s Auto Supply Store on March 23 regarding an EGR Valve has been approved for payment in the amount of $40 gift card.

    Before we can send you a check and gift card the enclosed Release of Liability must be signed by you and returned to CSK. When the signed Release of Liability is received at our office payment and gift card will be promptly sent to the address listed above.

    CSK Auto, Inc.
    Phoenix, AZ 85009

    The above applies to CHECKER Auto Parts: SCHUCKS Auto Supply: KRAGEN Auto Parts: and MURRAY’S

    PRO SHOP appears to be the Schuck’s department selling to repair shops.

    All of the above would not have taken place had the car been repaired by the local dealer who warrants his manufacturers parts.

    That the independent repairer profits by marking up the part he obtains does not seem to cause him to be responsible for the labor cost.

    This post is offered in the spirit of making others aware of CSK’s warranty program.
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    jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    That the independent repairer profits by marking up the part he obtains does not seem to cause him to be responsible for the labor cost.

    Or, seemingly, even resposible for knowing about the policy of the store where he bought the part so that he could be sure that the proper proceedures were followed so that his customer gets reimbursed.

    I ran into this same sort of thing where I independently discovered that my new tires came with a 12 month road hazard waranty from the manufacturer.
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    Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    A tv reporter is hoping to talk with victims of automotive repair scams and ripoffs in the greater Seattle area. If you have a story to share, please email jfallon@edmunds.com no later than May 15, 2009 and be sure to note your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience.
    Thanks,
    Jeannine Fallon
    Corporate Communications
    Edmunds.com

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

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    euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    I don't know if the reporter considers SW WA in the greater Seattle area or not, but you can refer him to post 558 which relates how Schucks Auto Supply operates.
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    tina1976tina1976 Member Posts: 18
    Has anyone in the DC-MD-VA area purchased a VIP club membership from Sheehy? This membership costs $745 and includes lifetime oil changes, lifetime tire inspection and rotation, 50% off annual detailing, seasonal inspections, lifetime car washes w/ service, 5% off parts/accessories/service, service loaners for all maintenance services. How does this sound? Is it worth it when purchasing a new car?
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    kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    How long do you keep your cars for, how many miles do you typically drive per year, and how good care do you take of the vehicles, and how convenient is this dealership to you to get basic maintenance done?

    I do all basic maintenance myself, and therefore this would be a very bad pre-payment deal from my perspective.

    If you drive on average 12K miles per year, and you keep your vehicle typically 3 years, and you do an oil change at 5K miles with tire rotations at 10K, and you pay $30 for an oil change and $25 for a tire rotation.......then in 3 years you would have spent on your own $285.

    Whats the value of a car wash at service intervals? To me, nothing.

    Whats the value of a loaner for maintenance services? To me, nothing. All of the above maintenance services should take less than 30-60 minutes. I'd be waiting for the vehicle, not driving off and coming back later in the day.

    What parts do you anticipate using in 36K miles, that are not covered by warranty, where you would get 5% discount? Tires?....nope, you'd buy them somewhere else where they are more reasonably priced. Brake pads, maybe. Battery after 4 or 5 years?....nope, you'd have that done somewhere else where it's more reasonably priced.

    Plus, there is risk in a pre-payment up front that would make that prepayment worthless. The car could be in an accident and totaled, you could sell the vehicle and replace it with something else, the dealership could go out of business, etc, etc.

    Is the dealership is extremely close to you and convenient, as compared all of the other maintenance shop? For me, there are probably 50+ general maintenance shops closer than the local dealership. It's no where near as convenient.

    Only you can make an evaluation whether it's a good deal or not for your personal situation. I suspect most would conclude it isn't.
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    tina1976tina1976 Member Posts: 18
    Thanks kiawah-- you raise some good points. The one good thing about the membership is that it can be used at any of their locations/dealership (Ford, Honda, Acura, etc.) and at least 2 of those are close to me. However, this is a small thing compared to all of the other things you are saying.

    I really think the dealer is trying to arm wrestle me into buying either this membership or their extended car warranty just because they feel they are giving me a great deal on my trade-in, but in reality, they are giving me $475 below the "fair" blue book value. They originally quoted me $1975 below blue book and I got them to come up $1500, but it's still off by the $475. And what's with the "fair" anyway. On Kelly's site, my car would be considered "good" condition. The dealer claimed that they always pay at the most "fair" value because there is always some reconditioning to be done to bring it up to good condition. Does this sound right? They claim there isn't much they can do with my car besides giving it to a wholesaler. The car is an 05 Honda Pilot EX with a little over 76K miles. The other thing that doesn't sound right to me is that they are being hard about the accessory package, which includes mudguards, wheel locks and trim. They are trying to say that all of this stuff already comes on the car, so it's not really optional except for the trim which can be removed. I really think they are trying to get over by getting me to pay for the accessory package, the vip membership, or the extended warranty jus because they came up $1500 on my trade-in. Advice anyone.....
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    5539655396 Member Posts: 529
    VIP club membership from Sheehy. This membership costs $745 and includes lifetime oil changes, lifetime tire inspection and rotation, 50% off annual detailing, seasonal inspections, lifetime car washes w/ service, 5% off parts/accessories/service, service loaners for all maintenance services.

    Lifetime oil changes, - You can get them anywhere for about 20 bucks. Calculate it over the period you expect to own the car.

    Lifetime tire inspection and rotation - Check with a tire dealer for that brand of tire. May be free anyway.

    50% off annual detailing - Something you can do yourself. Most new paints retain their luster if you keep them clean. Now, if it included free car washes......

    Seasonal inspections - A great way to sell you services.

    Lifetime car washes w/ service - A great way to get you in for service. You have to buy something to get it.

    5% off parts/accessories/service - Whoopee ding.

    Service loaners for all maintenance services - Don't some dealers do this for free?

    OK, so maybe I'm a skeptic, but I would rather put the money in a savings account in case I did need it. If I didn't, well, it was earning interest, and it's still mine.
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