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Subaru XT Turbo Forester

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Comments

  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    In a recent post I mentioned that my oil dipstick was coming up totally dry or showing very low oil levels on my brand new F-XT even when I knew (and later confirmed by draining) there was 4.2 qts of oil in the engine. I asked my dealer about this over the phone and asked on this forum - the responses I got were all along the lines of it must be "user error" and I must have read the dipstick incorrectly.

    Well, today while visiting my dealer, we discussed this and it looks like it's not user error but a user MANUAL error. The owners manual states engine oil capacity for the 2.5L (doesn't specify turbo or not) Forester as 4.2 Qts. I fill the engine with 4.2 qts. But apparently, the turbos take a bit more - along the lines of 5 Qts. I could not get a technician to give me an ACTUAL capacity but they said to fill it up to 5 Qts. Well, THAT'S why my dipstick shows low oil! For heaven's sake! I will notify SOA, I'm shocked there hasn't already been a TSB on the owners manual about this!

    Patti, do you have any clue what the actual engine oil capacity is for the '04 F-XT and if there is an upcoming owners manual update on this?

    Also, what is the potential damage to my engine for having driven it for the last 1000 miles with only 4 and not 5 quarts of oil? From break-in to 2000 it's been running a quart short I guess. I suspect that risk is minimal... but still!!! :-\

    ... and YES, I've changed the oil TWICE in the car's first 2000 miles! ;-) Call me paranoid! -elissa
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    I think Patti monitors mostly the Problems and Solution posts, not the XT Turbo posts.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe they're not counting the capacity of the oil filter. Advice here is to pre-fill that before reinstalling it. That way filtration begins right away.

    That would account for part of the discrepancy, at least.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Right, juice.

    I'm borrowing this from another forum which I cannot link. If you were to email SoA, you'd receive a response like this:

    "Thank you for taking the time to contact us. We do apologize for this inconvenience. We appreciate that you brought this to our attention. The correct capacity for the engine oil for the 2004 Forester XT is 5 quarts when replacing the engine oil and filter.

    The 4.2 quart capacity noted in your owner's manual is for the 2004 Forester non-turbo models when just filling up the engine oil and not replacing the filter. The capacity of the non-turbo models when replacing the filter is 4.8 quarts.

    We have advised our Publications Department that this information needs to be added to future Forester owner's manuals.

    Thanks for the opportunity to be of assistance. If you need any future assistance, please feel free to contact us."
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    elissa - we had a discussion on this several months ago - I'm surprised, and disappointed they haven't fixed it in the manual, or at least included an addendum on a separate piece of paper. Ford used to do that quite well - they'd send out a big sticker that actually covered the entire old page. Then again Ford's had lots of practice correcting their manuals :<).

    Also, when I asked the SOA folks they gave me a tolerance of +/- 1 quart. Although I can't imagine ever over filling by a quart on purpose. This actually works out better for folks that have their oil changed at the dealer - the dealers service departments think everything runs on 5 quarts.

    Re: priming the oil filter - its kind of a religious issue. I personally do it because it definitely reduces the time it takes to get the lube going in the engine - just watch the oil idiot light and see how much quicker it goes out. On a vertically oriented filter, I can't think of a reason not to do it. A couple of the turbo sites I checked recommended it as well. Some even go the extreme of using a pre-priming oil system that gets the oil pressure up before the engine starts to crank. Even I'm not that OCD.

    BTW - last round trip to Maine - 700 miles in 3 days, avg = 24 mpg. Hoo Ray. I removed the roof racks and mpg went up 2 mpg on the highway - noise went down as well.

    HTH
    Larry
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Watch for a TSB coming soon...

    -juice
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    Larry, Juice, Dennis, Sam - thanks! All helpful info! I will try that priming thing, can't believe I never thought of it myself! :-) BTW - love the vertical filter - no oil dripping down my arm.

    It is odd what Larry says: the dealers service departments think everything runs on 5 quarts

    The technician today FIRST replied to the service manager that ALL 2.5L engines take 5 Qts. Then I produced the owners manual which states 4.2 capacity. To that they said "well, the turbos take closer to 5 qts"
  • troop2shostroop2shos Member Posts: 235
    A few years ago there was a 13 minute in-car video of an Elise taking on Vette on a road course - very entertaining & educational... :) The UK link I had (& just checked) is now being redirected to another site so search away, if interested.
  • troop2shostroop2shos Member Posts: 235
    Found it on opentracking - go to the track video link towards the bottom of the page.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Personally, if my dip stick wasn't showing close to full after I changed the oil, I'd continue to add oil until it did so, regardless of what the owner's manual said.

    -Frank P
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    Well, I get worried about filling the engine with too much oil and blowing valves out and the like. Besides, immediately after the oilc change it DOES show at full with 4.2 quarts in there. It's after turning it on and driving for a while that it drops down on the dipstick. Overfilling is probably not much of a risk in small amounts but I have visions of a "Jiffy Lube Disaster" when I think of over filling. Haven't you ever heard the Jiffy Lube stories - ones where they drained the tranny and filled the engine with 4 qts of oil, thus blowing the engine up with 8qts total? Hell, larger engines (2.0 and up) can easily consume a half or whole quart of oil between oil changes anyway so I'd rather be down a quart which is almost normal than over by a quart which could put too much strain on the parts. All a matter of opinion I guess but I have to go now and check that level now that she's back from the dealer and I don't know if they topped me off ;-) -elissa
  • troop2shostroop2shos Member Posts: 235
    Overfilling the crankcase can result in foaming the oil caused by aeration from the crankshaft. This could lead to a loss of oil pressure & overheating due to the lack of flow / oil starvation.
  • miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    the answer is almost 5 Quarts, hopefully your Dealer is using the correct Oil Filter too? If it looks White, it isn't Right©
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    elissa - as miamixt said - the oil filter for the XT is actually black and on the ones I've used actually has the word "Engine" stamped across the bottom.

    If the dealer is using / sold you a white filter it will fit, but is technically not the correct filter for the car.

    HTH

    Larry
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    Can you please give me the link to the 7 passenger "spy shot" you referred to, I couldn't find it earlier.

    John
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    Larry/Scott - I got no problems with my oil FILTER. :-) It's the Oil CAPACITY I'm all curious about. And I'm the little gal that puts the filter on, not no "mechanic"! :-) So I know it's the right one. Small, black, and clearly the "engine" oil filter... Oddly 'dummy proof' :-)

    Bill - thanks for the further detail on why it's bad to overfill.

    John - I don't know what spy shot you are talking about but maybe you mean the 360 degree views of the cabins that subaru shows on subaru.com?
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    elissa - I had the dealer do the 1k change on mine. They used the wrong filter. When we first started this thread last year there was some questions about what was the correct p/n, as some of the dealerships were selling / installing the wrong filters. I had already purchased a case from my dealers parts dept, and they were the correct ones. Why the service department put on the wrong one was a topic of discussion (here and at the dealership) when I noticed it a couple of days later.

    Larry
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    my bad, I found the author to the "spy shot" and guess what, it isn't you. There is apparantly a 2006 Subaru 7 passenger photo over on "thecarconnection" with a .com site. I didn't look hard but I didnt' run into it either.

    John
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    Larry,
    That's amazing! In a really bad way! Do you have any clue as to what the consequences are (if any are even worth noting) of using the wrong filter? As the wrong filter is bigger, I imagine that filter's function of removing bits and pieces remained intact but that perhaps the increased size resulted in lower oil pressure? Do you think there is any long term wear and tear on the engine as a result? It's stories like that that make me thankful I do a lot of my own maintenance. Not that I can't screw it up too but at least I figure I'm more anal than the average mechanic. I'm giving the brakes on my husbands' Dakota a go at it this weekend so wish me luck we're still alive come Monday. ;-)
    Elissa
  • miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    the small stuff like Oil changes should be done by the Dealer, so the Dealer knows you and will help you when the big things go wrong. Subaru is becoming an expert in Denial of Warranty Claims, and that is mostly because of the kids with the WRX and STI modifications and abuse. Who will do your annual safety Check, how do you prove you did the correct work on your Car? Spend the $12.95 for an Oil Change and meet and establish a relationship with your factory Mechanic, he's waiting for you! $12.95 is a starter price though, you will notice the price going up as the XT grows older!
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Elissa, my dealer screwed up on my first (3500 mile) oil change, and put the wrong filter in. I drove with it until the next oil change at 7500 miles. No problems whatsoever. I wouldn't worry about it.
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    miamixt - I agree with you on the importance of knowing and trusting your dealership but I'm really lucky. And meticulously organized. And a hell raiser. I have a nice little binder with all reciepts and notes for all work I do and all work done elsewhere. My dealer performed $6K worth of warranty work on my '01 Forester that I purchased elsewhere and never took in for paid service. They are wonderful. I bought my new XT at the same dealer 'cuz of their service dept and am on first name basis with all the folks their who take care of me. Trust me, they know me ;-) Besides, maybe oil changes in Miami are $12 but here in CA they are $51! Thanks but no thanks. I'd rather get the peak under the car and know how my exhaust, boots, etc are all doing. But your point is well taken. -elissa
  • deadeye5deadeye5 Member Posts: 93
    Had an oil chg at a NW Fl. dealer as I was having a Shock replaced. (Usually do the oil chg myself)--but, the mech. came out with the white
    (wrong filter)I told him the turbo takes a black, smaller filter.He was a little upset--BUT, I had the correct one put on by looking over their shoulder...

                             Observant Deadeye
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Miami - check your owners manual - 1st oil change at 3750 miles, then 7500, then 15000, and then every 7500 miles after that. Since I use synthetic, I don't plan on changing the oil more often than the factory recommended schedule.
  • miamixtmiamixt Member Posts: 600
    first I'm the one who claimed my Daytime running Lights were the Fog lights so consider the source!

    "Your Subaru Vehicle requires an initial engine Oil & Filter change at 3,000 Miles, or 3 Months, whichever comes first"! (Page 40)
    I only had 1000 Miles on my XT at the 3 Month mark. In my Area the Climate from Hell, the Severe Service Schedule is also in effect, double the Service Intervals for repeated short distance driving, extensive idling, driving in dusty conditions, driving in areas using salt or other corrosive materials, or in very cold weather, more than 50% driving in heavy city traffic during hot weather above 90 Degrees F, driving in mountainous areas, or towing a Trailer. I have yet to live in an area that doesn't qualify for this!
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    Just quickly checking back in here. Haven't found a house yet in the Bay area - the market is $crazy$ and there are only few homes on the market. So it will be a while before I know when I will have money for new wheels.

    Did anyone notice that the subaru media site posted the new prices for all 2005 models? Good news is that the new XT will be available with the premium package (incl. leather and moonroof) also for the manual transmission version.

    "The popular turbocharged Forester 2.5 XT returns with the addition of the engine immobilizer ignition key also found on the 2005 model year WRX STi. The 2.5 XT comes standard with five-speed manual transmission at an MSRP of $25,595 and with optional four-speed automatic transmission at an MSRP of $26,395. Also offered is the 2.5 XT with Premium Package that carries an MSRP of $27,295 for the five-speed manual and $28,095 for the automatic. The Premium Package includes black leather trimmed-upholstery and a power moonroof."
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    Stop! I miss my moonroof! I sold my '01 F-S w/ PP that had a moon roof and replaced it with the '04 F-XT no moon roof :-( I thought I wouldn't miss it. I do. :,(
  • bobshere1bobshere1 Member Posts: 59
    I bought a dozen correct black filters online for a bit more than $5 each and I do my own (dyno) oil ~ every 3k. I just drain and add 5qt. Simple. Easy. Cheap.

       The dipstick for FXT is the hardest to read I've ever seen. It was suggested to me that it is easier if you read it after a longish period (other cars you can read it right after you stop).

       I try to stay away from dealers, except for the "big stuff".

            Bob

    PS: My preliminary assessment of the mpg gain from removing MY roof rack/bike mounts/basket are that the gains will have been (disappointment) minimal. As mentioned, the reduction of wind noise, especially with the moonroof open, is very substantial. I'll keep it off except for "trips".
  • zmanzman Member Posts: 200
    Does the '05 F-XT have ETC (electronic throttle control)? I know it's on the F-X (and I suppose the F-XS); I'm curious what effect it might have on the performance of the vehicle.

    Zman
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    The '04 F-XT has ETC but supposedly they changed the mapping/programming for '05.

    DaveM
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    Darn, I just read someone's post (yours?) a few days ago siting that they gained maybe as much as 2 MPG by removing the roof racks. So I took 'em off myself, wondering what a pain it will be now to install my bike rack later... But I noticed no reduction in wind noise. Waiting to see if there's a difference in MPG... Up until taking the roof racks off I was getting 20.5 - 21.5 on my normal commute which is 50% hilly coastal terrain at 45-50 MPH and 30% highway and 20% city.
  • ezshift5ezshift5 Member Posts: 858
    a) the '05 FX avail w/manual AND Leathor (intentional spelling error: sound more sensual IMHO)
    b) rumor of better EPA fuel efficiency rating.

    Altho' SF Bay Area leading the league in home pricing, my neighbor just put his mirror image on the block at .46 mil. I paid $90k for mine.

    Still saving my Naval Reserve skins for a '05 F......best, ez...
  • pon1pon1 Member Posts: 196
    Anyone driven both yet in MT? I have driven the FXT in auto and manual, and also the 05 H6. FXT wins so far, gotta love that 2.5T.

    Would anyone chose the FXT over the OBXT for reasons other than price?

    In Canada the OB XT is only avail in LTD and is $5-7K more than the FXT....so I think I will end up with an 05 FXT...but what about the US market where the FXT and the OBXT are closer in price.

    Maybe the FXT will pick up a few mpg for 05 somehow, the OBXT (and Leg GT) beats it with more hp (allegedly)

    JP
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    JP - I haven't driven any of the '05 yet BUT to answer your question about why an FXT over an OBXT, here are my reasons:

    1) Cargo area hight: my dog kennel won't squeeze into the OB but clears the FXT no problem.

    2) Cargo area length: (maybe they changed this in 2005 but...) I cannot sleep comfortably in the OB's. The way the seat folds down prevents a long, flat, stretched out comfortable night's sleep in the OB. I get the best nights' sleep on the road in my Forester. Strangely enough, this is a deal-braker for me. ;-)

    3) Vehicle length: the OB is much longer than the forester and barely fits in our garage. While the FXT fits in and allows me access to my tool box, work bench, washer-dryer, etc.

    4) Vehicle image: A station wagon!? Ok, I'm not single anymore, but I'm still having station wagon image issues. Maybe after I have a few kids I'll be able to alter my self-perception enough to buy a true station wagon. But for now, I prefer to kid myself into thinking that my Forester is an SUV, and I'm a rough and tumble kinda girl to be driving one. :-)

    5) Price: $5-7K (Canadian Dollars, I presume), while only about $3K USD is still a price difference that some would consider substantial enough.
  • subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    The primary reasons we went with the FXT were the more-usable shape of the cargo area, including hauling a big dog, and the overall roominess of the seating configuration esp.in the rear seats.I was also very happy to get the financing incentives on the last of the 04's .

    I dont know how much difference it will make in mpg or HVN, but I found a #30Torx bit for my rechargable power screwdiver and it takes less than 1 minute to remove the crossbars.

    On my very first full tank of gas, hauling four folks, a week's worth of beach gear and 4 bikes on a hitch-mounted carrier, averaging 70 mph with the AC running on an 87 degree day, gaining elevation the whole way...22 mpg.

    Im getting a roofrack cargo box to put on top so the dog has more room in back on trips...Im thinking a Thule Cascade 1500 since I dont ski. Anybody have any other recommended boxes?

    mark
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    I saw a 1.5 mpg improvement on my 1st tank of gas after I removed my crossbars but that was 100% hwy doing 75 mph. So Elissa, given your driving patterns, I doubt you'll notice much difference.

    As to choosing the FXT over the OBXT, as others have pointed out, the FXT offers more utility for carrying tall/bulky items, you can at least pretend that it's an SUV, the cabin feels bigger (greenhouse effect), and its compact dimensions make it more fun to drive. Although I haven't driven the OBXT yet, its backseat accommodations should be slightly more generous for adult passengers, it can carry longer items, the interior will be a little more upscale, and the hwy ride quieter.

    -Frank P
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    That was me. The racks were off and the average speed was 80. At that I was one of the slower vehicles on the road.

    Larry
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    I had the plastic film installed before I took delivery of the car. It's done a great job of saving the nose of the car from stones, bugs, salt, etc. But - it definitely looks like its going to have about a 3 or 4 year life expectancy. There's some stuff that got so heavily embedded into the material that it won't come out. They warrant the material for 3 years, but I believe that only covers application failures.

    Anyway, just for the yucks I bought the hood deflector especially made for the XT. Installation took about an hour and that was with drilling two holes into the underside of the hood. I'm hoping this will help direct some of the stones over the windshield.

    The next thing I'd like to do is put something in the hood scope to protect the intercooler fins. I'm ingesting enough stuff down the scoop that the fins are really taking a beating.

    Anyone have an idea of what, if anything I could use that would protect the fins without degrading the efficiency of the intercooler?

    TIA

    Larry
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Larry,

    I've seen posts by owners at NASIOC that put up a mesh wire on the hood scoop.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    MT with the PP, plus better mpg maybe, now I have no excuses for me not to want one. Except I'm house poor!

    Bad timing...

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    You had to drill holes? I didn't do any drilling when I installed the OEM XT deflector. The self tapping plastic nut things that snapped into the 4 holes on the underside of the hood where a bit stubborn to start the self tapping screws in, but patience pays ;-)

    I bought a small roll (3' x 30' IIRC) of black colored aluminum screen from Menards. Cut the section I needed and slid it into place over the intercooler. You could call it a Cicada catcher if you live in an area where they are more than many.

    -Brian
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    Uhm... no drilling on that XT hood deflector installation. Just the self taping screws into the pre-drilled screws that the rubber gasket pops out of. Wow, sorry you went through that trouble. :-( The instruction DID suck big time, but no little picture of drill that I could decipher. -elissa
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Yep, those buggers were interesting, eh? Instead of drilling, I took the self tapping screws and those pesky snap-in plastic nuts and preassembled them before installing it into the hood. A pliers and a screw driver allowed me to get those plastic nuts prepped, took a little time, but it worked.

    -Brian
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    I should have explained - the deflector I received is made for two different hoods, the early VIN's had 6 holes, 2 on each side of the center and 1 at each end. Later VIN's went to 4 holes, 1 on each side of the center and 1 at each end.

    So - since I had the screws and nuts anyway, I figured 6 fasteners were better than 4 and drilled the 2 extra holes.

    Sorry for the confusion. Now on to the intake screen.

    Larry
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    Without the roof racks I'm learning just how much noise is making it past the seal. I had the glass opened the other day and was cleaning the tracks. They were covered in dirt/dust which tells me that theres's plenty of stuff filtering through the seal. I doubt that since its not actually leaking water the dealer will do anything about it. Has anyone tried anything on the seals that might swell them a little bit to enhance the sealing action?

    TIA

    Larry
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let me reemphasize how poor the instructions are for Subaru accessories, and I probably have about 20 of them installed in my Forester. Just horrible.

    The IKEA instructions are better!

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Yep, I have one of the later VIN's as my hood had the 2 center holes and the 2 outer end holes. I was skeptical at first, but even with the 4 holes it is very secure and snug. In fact, I don't think I'll be taking it off much, if at all, like the one on my Outback. That one was easy to remove and reinstall for washing and/or waxing.

    -Brian
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    Are you not worried about body integrity and/or rusting from the drill holes? Or maybe you primed or painted the inside of the holes? -elissa
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    elissa - Its aluminum. Rust shoudln't be an issue. But yes, I primed the drilled edges of the holes anyway. Once OCD, always OCD. That and it took all of 5 seconds.

    Larry
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You make us proud! ;-)

    -juice
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