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Subaru XT Turbo Forester

19192949697131

Comments

  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    That's a bizzare turn of events. Glad everything worked out!

    You'll be the first person here with an 05 FXT!

    Congrats!

    Ken
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    How bizarre! At least it's looking promising. So, delivery tomorrow or Thursday? Remember to be *easy* on 'er for the first 1k miles ;-)

    -Brian
  • pon1pon1 Member Posts: 196
    Interesting thread over at legacysti.com comparing the FXT and GT - dyno results, 0-60, quarter miles, etc. No conclusive evidence yet (different dynos were used) but seems the power/torque figures are very close (so much for 210/235 vs 250/250). Also seems the low gearing on the MT FXT will likely keep it as the 2nd place stock Subie at the dragstrip (behind the STi). Of course the GT (and WRX) will leave a stock Forester in the twisties, but the thought that a pumped up mini SUV can outdrag Subaru's own new sports sedan from the lights, and has been given basically the same power amd torque to play with makes me smile, and happy with my choice. I think a few Leg owners are or will be a little bitter that they weren't given a small performance boost over the FXT, just to put it in it's place.

    JP
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I expect it will be more like Saturday or Monday. There are a couple of options that must be installed by the dealer first.

    I will be very careful about break-in, believe me.

    Ed
  • grove4grove4 Member Posts: 95
    I have both cars,the wife drives the xt.The Legacy sure does feel faster than the XT but who cares.The Legacy is so much more car than the xt in everyway you could compare that I cant believe that I paid even close to the same for both.Maybe I could see your point if the XT cost about 6k less with similar accelleration but with prices so close who cares that the XT nips at the Legacies heels or vice versa.After driving both I would put my money on the legacy but who knows.
  • pon1pon1 Member Posts: 196
    I guess I asked for that, not currently owning either and only having driven the FXT (on several extended test drives).

    Are both of your cars MT? Your comparisons are very interesting, though I'm not cross shopping the Legacy (looked at the OBXT, but too expensive here).

    Agree, the differences in performance are academic in the real world, I just though it was funny that Subaru under-reported the hp and torque figs for the FXT, but then gave it the same "250 hp" engine and geared it to outdrag their flagship sporting models (STi aside).

    In Canada, the jump to the base GT from the base FXT is $1500, but you also get a moonroof and a better stereo in the Forester. I also like the Forester size better

    JP
  • grove4grove4 Member Posts: 95
    I think the XT is pretty quick to maybe 30mph but after that the legacy starts to make up ground.This is only a seat of the pants feel.One place the xt seems not to impressive is maybe about a 70mph roll on.Before I bought the GT I had a 2003 ACCORD 240hp V6 and that car really made the xt look bad on the highway no doubt about it.Must be the super low gearing in the xt that works against it in certain situations.The legacy seems to pull alot harder once underway.I never lined the two up at a dragstrip or anything like that b/c I really dont like beating my cars but hey,we all love are cars here.Oh yea,I paid 28k for the xt back in june of 2003 and about 2 months ago I paid 27.5k for a 5sp GT limited.Admittantly I did get the GT at a great price but still the refinement is on another level.I raised that issue of refinement and price of the xt a few pages back and I still feel that way.One thing I did find out though was that most people wont get the deal I did on the GT.And to the xt's defense I saw one at the subaru dealer yesterday for 26k loaded.And I still am not quite sure about the outback being able to sell at the price they are asking for the top of the line model considering the competition at that price range also.My dealer said no deals until maybe 2005.Maybe this crash test fiasco will change that time frame a little.
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    So, delivery tomorrow or Thursday?

    Quick update: The car is ready but for the spoiler. Not sure if the dealer gets that and paints it themselves (nervous about that) or if they order them already painted. A small chance for Saturday delivery but most likely it'll be Tuesday or Wednesday.

    My wife had her Honda dealer paint and install the spoiler on her '91 Accord before delivery and it looked fine - better actually than the OEM paint, now that I think about it.

    I suppose I could drive by and look at it for a while...

    Ed
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    I suppose I could drive by and look at it for a while.

    That would be torture! :-) Just ask the dealer if they paint it.

    [edit] from subaruparts.com:
    2004 > Forester > Appearance
    Rear Spoiler
     
    Color matched rear deck spoiler. Adds the sporty touch to the Forester. Kit includes hardware and recomended instructions for installation.

    -Dennis
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Certainly, the gearing will have an effect on turbo spool, but I was wondering is anybody knew whether or not the GT and FXT have up-pipe cats? It wouldn't surprise me if Subaru put one in from the LEV ratings standpoint. Would be a quick fix to improve lag if either one had one.
  • grove4grove4 Member Posts: 95
    I will not promise but I think the GT does not have a up pipe cat but the XT does according to what I read.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Was in NC today on business and saw a crystal gray FXT MT PP today in the parking lot. It even had the spoiler. It was so good looking I had to fight back a twinge of envy :-)

    Re Ed's spoiler, I interpret "Color matched" to mean that it comes painted from the factory.

    -Frank
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    That's good to know, Frank. Mine will be the first gray Forester of any trim level I see. I have seen a single gray WRX (not STi) on the road.

    I hope you're right about the prepainted spoiler. I have seen work from this dealer's body shop and it looks good; still I'd prefer something from the factory spray booth, already cured and ready for a fresh coat of wax.

    I got a phone call from a good college friend from Atlanta (Marietta, specifically) a few days ago, and I got really nostalgic for the days when I lived in Athens and Decatur.

    Ed
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Had a very hairy experience in my GS4 a few days ago - drove over a huge truck tire at full highway speed. Didn't see it from behind some van - changed lanes right into it. Lucky for me, the only damage was a torn off plastic rear engine undercover - $105 to replace. Definitely a testament to "don't drive at night when tired as hell"...

    I wonder if I were in my FXT instead, if the higher clearance would let the truck tire just slide underneath without damaging anything.

    Unrelated subject - any thoughts on ceramic brake pads for the Forester? Just had all four brakes on my GS4 done with ceramics. So far, I am very impressed, and considering doing the same when the FXT needs brakes. There is absolutely no fade, they stop very well, and there's minimal brake dust - much less than from metallics. Don't know about longevity - the original metallics lasted 40K miles.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Today is exactly one year and 13,257 miles since I picked up my 04 FXT MT.

    My observations after one year of ownership:

    Pros:
    - Very good / smooth engine power.
    - Excellent transmission.
    - Well matched gearing - the low first gear eliminates the need for low range when driving off road, and the engine is responsive in other gears as well.
    - Excellent steering feel - not too loose, not too tight.
    - Very good brakes, the brake assist is a very nice feature.
    - Very reliable, no mechanical problems except one Hill-Holder adjustment.
    - Hill Holder comes in handy on big hills.
    - Comfortable seats.
    - Excellent utility and cargo capacity.
    - Lots of handy storage bins everywhere.
    - Good stock radio.
    - Nice ergonomic placement of controls.
    - Great seat heaters.
    - Useful mirror and wiper heaters.
    - Great traction in the snow and rain.
    - Excellent visibility all around.
    - Nice compact exterior dimensions, very easy to maneuver and park in tight spots.
    - Very good headlights / foglights.
    - Decent stock tires, so far showing no visible wear.
    - So far, not a single sqeak or rattle.

    Cons:
    - Seatbelts - horrible! WAAAAAY too tight and lock up very often, to the point of being dangerous. I have an ongoing case with SOA on this.
    - Climate control - can't keep the temp even close to the desired setting. I was able to figure out a fix for this myself.
    - Noise - this car is NOISY on the highway / rough road surface.
    - Gauges are almost invisible during the day with sunglasses on - need to get rid of the silly red needles!
    - The stock battery is very cheap and does not handle cold weather starts very well.
    - An INTEGRATED Turbo gauge and trip computer should be standard on this model for the price.

    Nitpicks / Improvement Opportunities:
    - Gas mileage is only average for the class. Mine has been in the 21-22 range in a mix of driving. Lowest 19.8, highest 24.8.
    - No AUX input on the radio. No XM option. I find the weather band completely useless.
    - Electronic throttle is too sensitive and non-linear.
    - The clutch could be made lighter - becomes tiresome in traffic.
    - The big air brake (scoop) on the hood takes away from appearance and gas mileage. Intercooler should be mounted low in front of the radiator.
    - Steering ratio is too slow, need less turns lock to lock.
    - Armrests on the doors are starting to show some wear.
    - A NAV system would be a great option to have.

    Summary:
    Definitely more Pros than Cons, but the few Cons do make for a frustrating driving experience. Overall, a good car that could become a GREAT one with only minor improvements / revisions.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    over in the "Subaru Crew: Suggestions for Subaru" thread.

    Bob
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Oh great... I've racked up the same number of miles as you in just over 7 months and am heading out tomorrow on a 1200-mile trip! At this rate I'll have close to 30k miles by the time my FXT is a year old ;-(

    I finally figured out today why some people complain about the gauges sometimes being almost invisible when wearing sunglasses. After picking up my Forester from routine maintenance, I started down the road and noticed that I could hardly see the gauges and it took me a sec to figure out that the mech had turned the headlights off. For safety purposes, I leave my lights on all the time and therefore the instrument cluster is lit during the day, thus making the gauges easy to read. I do agree though that you shouldn't have to do that just to see the gauges during the daytime.

    -Frank
  • subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    Sam, thanks for the long-term update.....a great benefit for potential buyers.
       So far (KIW***) at 5K, I have struggled with the unreadable radio faceplate when wearing sunglasses but HAL has been compliant, the seatbelt retractors havent been a problem and the interior in the PP is more than quiet enough for a SUV...and my other car is an Audi A6, so I know quiet! The upgraded audio in the PP seems to have a non-linear equalization as you increase volume, but, again, I'm used to the Bose system in the Audi...you get what you pay for.

    Mark
  • boomerbubbaboomerbubba Member Posts: 40
    Hi. Newbie here, considering an XT purchase. It would be configured with manual transmission.

    I love to drive, and the prospect of turbo performance is enticing. I also would plan to keep the car for a long time, and I wonder what the turbo would do to projected engine wear and maintenance.

    Any thoughts?
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    I don't think the maintenance cost on an XT is any different than a non-turbo Forester. My dealer's maintenance price schedule has nothing special in it for the XT over the other models. I've had my car for a year, an no mechanical problems so far. Mine is a stick shift.

    Since I have the Subaru credit card and use SubaruBucks, the maintenance so far has cost me Zero.
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    I don't know about long term viability and engine wear related to having a turbo... I would assume that add'l heat produced by the turbo would be the concern - heat causes cylinders to warp and produces extra engine wear. Although my guess is that the intercooler and hood scoop alleviate any heat buildup...

    BUT I will say that the turbo will cost me about $165 more every 60K miles when it's time to change the spark plugs. I could change the plugs on my normally aspirated Forester but cannot get at the plugs for the Turbo. The additional cost of Platinum plugs is a wash since Platinums last longer than copper or whatever else. The gas costs me more too - about $300 more per year for me in CA than a normally aspirated Forester engine (taking mileage and premium gas costs into consideration).

    So that will add up to about $1,400 more every five years in gas and maintenance for ME personally. I decided before I bought the XT that the extra $0.75 per day was worth it! :-) I still agree.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    The 2.2L turbo engine in the mid nineties Subarus was/is very well regarded for its longevity. My neighbours '94 Legacy turbo is still running smooth at 150k miles - almost all short distance inner city driving with lots of cold starts (and I mean 5 months of below freezing and temps into the -20's) .
    Remember that this is the same engine as the STi, but the turbo pressure and tuning are set to be much less demanding. I have no concerns w.r.t. the longevity of my WRX turbo, and that is tuned more to the limit than the toned down FXT.
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I just got back from picking up my '05 XT. Non-PP, 4EAT, Crystal Gray Metallic. PDI went well - no problems except a bit of residue on the liftgate and one of the doors from the plastic used to cover the car during transport - easily removed.

    More to follow as I get seat time.

    Ed
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Re Ed's spoiler, I interpret "Color matched" to mean that it comes painted from the factory.

    Yes, Frank is correct; it was prepainted.

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Congrats, Ed! I officially now have the slowest, oldest Forester in the country! LOL

    Road noise worse than a CR-V? I doubt that. While the 4.44 final drive is short, the 5 speed CR-V has a 4.77 final drive, so it revs even higher at any given speed, and IMO insulation isn't as good as the Forester.

    The automatic CR-V is geared taller, so it might be more quiet. But definitely not the 5 speed CR-V.

    C&D's Forester XS was 3 decibels quieter than the CR-V at 70mph. I'm not sure if the XT is louder than the XS, but my guess is if it is, it's not by that much. The turbo actually mellows the engine a bit.

    Russia is getting the 2.5T? Color me surprised, I owe you a beer if you ever come to Washington. It's cool that other markets are getting two turbo options, I'm jealous!

    Extended warranty? I got one, FWIW, and one nice bonus is the roadside assistance. 7 years of AAA would have cost me $497, that paid for half the entire warranty right there. Add in better resale and I might break even, and that's even before I make a single claim.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Congrats Ed. I know you've been looking forward to this for a long time. ENJOY!

    Bob
  • pon1pon1 Member Posts: 196
    Ed - congrats - expect to read the first 05 FXT road test soon. Also interested in whether you get better mileage than the 04, once broken in. Mine will be identical to yours apart from MT and the moonroof, only another month to go.....

    Turbos - standard on a lot of cars now, inc many VWs, Audi, Volvo and all diesels - no specific concerns on durability, esp when you consider Subaru's experience with turbocharging, the detuned STi in the FXT and our speed limits in relation to what this car can do. I'm going to keep my FXT till it dies of old age.

    Juice - bet the XT is quieter at any given road speed than the XS as it's not working as hard, the only extra "noise" is the turbo spooling up, if that bothers you, you shouldn't have bought this car in the first place.

    JP
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    congrats ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    And Mercedes just announced they will replace their superchargers with turbos...

    Is the XT overpriced? IMHO, no way.

    When you see that it can outrun a Porsche Cayenne S you might say the Porsche is overpriced.

    Is it priced high, though, for its class. That's because it offers more. You get more than what you pay for.

    A "loaded" CR-V is not loaded. You don't get fog lights, no roof rack cross bars, no protective cladding. 3/36 warranty is the shortest in the industry. No roadside assistance at all, not even for a year. No heated seats. No heated mirrors. No front wiper de-icer. No rear wiper de-icer. About half the torque, at least it feels that way. Tiny moonroof about 1/4 the size of Subaru's. Toy-like 15" rims with rather lame S-rated tires (I owned an identical set). 3 channel ABS, vs. Subaru's more sophisticated 4. No head protection from your air bags at all.

    So a CR-V EX is sort of stripped compared to an F-XT PP.

    Seriously, add up what you think the value of each of those things is, and what you end up with is...well, maybe the Acura RDX, which will be based on the CR-V, and might come with about half of those things, and of course a much higher price.

    Comparing the price of an XT from a year ago has no real meaning, you have to look at XT prices today. I've seen them dip to $21.8k, about what the CR-V EX runs, that wasn't a PP but give up the moonroof and that's about it, and you get those dozen features I mentioned for free.

    And before you jump and say Honda has better resale, I just looked and the KKB private party for a Good condition 60k miles '98 Forester L is $8600 or so, while a similar CR-V LX is $8020.

    So buy that bargain left over 2004 XT for $21,800, I'm sure you'll enjoy a grand or two more in resale value vs. a CR-V EX, and the turbo performance to boot.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Congrats Ed!

    So who's next off the fence!?

    Ken
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    News Flash: 5EAT w/ SportShift and VTD announced as a running production change on '05 Forester XT.

    j/k (ducks and runs)

    Congrats Ed!

    DaveM
  • parigiparigi Member Posts: 7
    Hi, crew. Just wanted to say thanks for all your insights and opinions. I hope that I can offer some help in the future now that I took delivery of a black 2004 XT. The beast has beaten my expectations so far, though I was driving a 1990 Civic that I got for free a year ago. I won't discuss what happened last night when a Cooper S pulled up next to me at the lights.
    --Parigi
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    careful about racing until you've broken the engine in ... and always make sure she's warmed up... which for my xt takes all of 4 minutes at 1500 rpm fast idle or slow roll.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Congrats Ed!! Your first assignment is to take a look at the endlink/lateral links and compare them to the '04.

    Your second assignment is to test HAL. How long does it take for the cabin temp. to regulate?

    -Dennis
  • boomerbubbaboomerbubba Member Posts: 40
    Well, answering my own question to some extent, I found this post

    miamixt Apr 30, 2004 4:04am

    in the archives of this forum, indicating that the Turbo carries a $250 one-time surcharge on Subaru's extended service contract.

    To me, that implies that the actuaries have calculated the net present value of the marginal, average projected maintenance attributable to the Turbo option over the course of 80-100K miles is no more than $250.

    That seems to be no more than a moderate risk.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Fence is slippery but I'm hanging on with my hands and feet!

    Extra cost for XT: $2000
    Extra gas per year for XT: $300
    Extra cost for warranty: $250

    Outrunning a 300C, GTO, 350Z, Porsche Cayenne S, and Honda S2000: priceless!

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Your first assignment is to take a look at the endlink/lateral links and compare them to the '04.

    Your second assignment is to test HAL. How long does it take for the cabin temp. to regulate?


    I drove the car home last night in a deluge, so I can't tackle assignment one. I can answer assignment two, however. The HAL climate control in full auto gradually brought the cabin temp down to the preset temp (approx. 71 F based on eyeballing - hard to say with all the gradations b/n 65 and 75) in about 10 minutes. I imagine it helped that the thunderstorm caused outside temps to drop from 87 F to 73 F during the same time span.

    Ed
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    In RTFM ('05 Forester, same manual for X, XS, LLB, XT) this morning I note that there is a full section in the manual describing how VDC operates. The diagram showing the gauges and displays for the XT also shows the location of a "VDC engaged" light ("if so equipped").

    Unless I'm missing something no current Forester model features VDC, so methinks this will be either a running change on the '05 XT or something to be had in '06 (grr...).

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, interesting find.

    I wonder, because they have not put VDC on any AWD besides VTD.

    Uh-oh, does that mean it'll get VTD as well? And a 5 speed auto with Sportshift, and 50 extra horses, and it'll run on tap water and spew gold coins from the exhaust. ;-)

    You can expect continuous improvement, but I think your '05 hit a sweet spot on price and performance, not to mention a small boost in efficiency. Don't worry, be happy!

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Agreed. My first Forester was Year 3 of a 5-year cycle. This one is also Year 3, but will its cycle be 5 years as well? Time will tell.

    Makes me think of "The New Kid," a new Old 97s song that's getting lots of airplay here. There will always be something new and improved down the line. Daddy just wanted a shot of fun with his practicality here and now. :-)

    Ed
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Ed, congrats! And good for you for RTFM! ;-)

    Interesting to see the mention of VDC. I wonder if the manual is used in markets other than the US.

    Like juice pointed out, in order for VDC to happen, they need to implement VTD first!

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Look at it this way, your average available HP is better the sooner you buy. ;-)

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    You just may have stumbled upon something with that VDC info. :)

    Bob
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    At the risk of stating the obvious on this one....has anyone tried turning off the headlights? Running with the lights on puts the radio in night vision mode, which is extremely dim. Turn the headlights off and...voila! Full bright. I mention it only because my father called to complain that he had a bad radio that was too dim during the day, and why had he let me talk him into Subaru. I told him to go turn off the dang headlights and get back to me. He returned to the phone and sheepishly reported the radio looked fine now. Because the car has DRL's, he never noticed that he had left the lights on all the time.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just wait until he accidentally triggers the parking lamps.

    The switch is at the top of the steering column.

    -juice
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    lol, that one got me a while back - talk about a head scratcher.

    Don't forget the Subie chat tonight - link is on the left.

    Steve, Host
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    I love this site:
    http://www.car-videos.com/performance/speed.asp?Speed1=0&Spee- d2=60

    Shows the F-XT beating out the
    Ford Mustang Mach1, Nissan 350Z, Porsche Boxter, Chevy Camaro z28, 2002 WRX, etc etc etc... and only 0.3 seconds behind the Evo. :-)

    Elissa
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think that parking light got us all. It happens the first time you clean the interior, you trip the switch, and then can't get the lights off!

    Wow, my jaw almost dropped but Fitz now has an XT for $21,264! Mama-mia, I wish I was shopping right now.

    Funny thing is I finally found no-haggle prices posted for Honda, Brownscar.com has a CR-V EX for $21.5k, though it's an auto and those come with a moonroof. Still, you give up a lot more than you gain and it costs more.

    If you are bargain hunting grab an '04 quick before they all disappear.

    Saw an '04 WRX wagon for $19,660, thought it was a typo! First time I've seen any WRX dip below $20 grand.

    '04 XT with auto and PP for $23,274.

    Like I said, if you're bargain hunting go *now*.

    -juice
This discussion has been closed.