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Meade
Muffy, I was referring to the 1995 refresh where they slapped a new body on an already outdated platform and decided that it would be sufficient for another 10 years. I do realize that the Balt is a new platform.
While it was a best selling car, it was only that because they priced it so cheaply. They didn't make any money on those cars. They just decided to let it wallow because Chevy is the utilitarian line and they needed to be in the entry level game.
How many people that bought Cavs when they were in college came back when it was time to move up? How many Civic buyers moved up into Accords?
Chevy's strategy with the Cav was extremely short sighted and damaging to the nameplate. Why do you think that the response to the Cobalt has been so indifferent in the marketplace?
The Cav was and is a good little car. The response to the Cobalt is because Chevy didn't try to do the engine right like they are doing for the Cobalt. By that I mean, look at what they will offer for the Cobalt SS. Shame they didn't do that for the Z24.
He used Honda as a comparative ... asking how many Civic buyers come back and buy Accords when it's time to move up.
In other words, Honda has a good record of keeping first-time buyers. Not so with the Cavalier and Chevy.
P.S. My wife and I took Chevy's promises to heart back in 1995 and bought a new Cavalier, expecting a cheap car that would get us through a few lean years. Well, Chevy broke its promise. The car's head gasket blew at 28,000 miles, and Chevy covered the $700 job saying there was an extended warranty campaign (i.e. manufacturing blunder) on the head gasket. When the new head gasket went 8,000 miles later, and then the NEXT new one blew 6,000 miles after the second one, Chevy refused to cover them. After spending more than $1,400 for head gaskets in only 14,000 miles (hmmm, $10 a mile for head gaskets), and finding the THIRD one now leaking, we cut our losses on that unreliable car (with a whopping 52,000 miles on it) and bought my wife a Mazda Protege5, which currently has 48,000 completely trouble-free miles on it. Thanks to Chevy's poor engine design (it was the HEAD, not the GASKET) and refusing to stand behind its own product even when it had a known defect, we will never buy another GM product. Way to hold on to first-time customers, GM!
Buy a Cobalt and enjoy!
So, he said he'd sell me a base coupe, auto tranny, ABS, Side airbags, after trade in for my worthless Olds= $10k.
What I deal! I'm having a hard time resisting. Only thing is it drives no better than my current GM car. Do I want another GM car? For that price?
Now GM and F could just go into bankruptcy, then let the tax payers pay the benefits owed works, but something tells me the taxpayers won't be smiling. There are sooooo many issues, where would one start. There is customer care, quality control, lack of NEW product, health care, high wages paid to even those not working... it goes on to infinity, or the sad end. The CEO of GM and F have lots of tough decisions to make, and not so many missteps are allowable at this stage of the game. Where is Lee Iaccoa? Give him a call as ask him of a possible protege. Would love to see a return to grandeur of the big three, as long as it is a well earned one. Let's lead !
Loren
So, he said he'd sell me a base coupe, auto tranny, ABS, Side airbags, after trade in for my worthless Olds= $10k.
What I deal! I'm having a hard time resisting. Only thing is it drives no better than my current GM car. Do I want another GM car? For that price? " --end quote --
Well, such-a-deal! Be sure they don't try adding anything to bump the price at the final sale time, like warranty, undercoats and crap. Looks pretty good! As for handling, the crazy Achieva I had would sometimes go into light steering while on the freeway. Yeap, sort of reverse of what assist should do. My Olds 98 Regency had much-much better handling than the Achieva. The Cobalt should handle better, and you can look through better tire options ( wheels too ) at the Tire Rack. I am using Dunlop A2 on the Miata and Toyo Spectrums on the Corolla, but would rather have Toyo Ultra 800 on her. Not that the lesser Toyo is a bad tire. Anyway, good deal on the base car. I got mag wheels for $75 made in Germany, so upgrades are cheap enough. Have fun with the new car.
My Achieve '92, bought in '93, was traded in on a Corolla '98, which has been very inexpensive to own. No way could they match the $10K deal though.
Loren
;-)
Thanks.
Change the car to rear wheel drive, and go with double wishbone suspension,
for $22K, and it may be a pretty good value play. Looks like th Cobalt SS at
say $22K less the usual $2,500 or so off, offers some road fun for those with
the need for speed, and wanting FWD for the snow country. Not sure it will do
well against the V6 Stang though here in California. It will be a good test indeed
between Ford and Chevy to see which has the most problems on a new car.
Would in no way want to bet on that one. Both will have a few problem areas,
but what is most important is what areas of the car need attention, and if any
are major design flaws. Cobalt, as far as I know, does not have the fueling problems
like the Mustangs, so that is a good thing.
Loren
http://www.j-body.org/faq/20/
When you are young, it's all fun!
:shades: Loren
One thing that I did really like: I saw a black sedan cobalt with chrome accents like the back of the side view mirrors, door handels, and trim.
That was a nice addition which makes the sedan look much more interesting. Haven't seen a coupe yet but from what I've seen in the pics it looks great (minus that horrific wing).
:shades: Loren
The Fusion doesn't match - smaller than Accord, Malibu, Camry.
The Five Hundred doesn't match - much larger than Accord, Malibu, Camry - even Impala.
So right now Ford is a little out of sync with its sizing. The Fusion is closer in size to the new Jetta.
Personally I think that's fine, it gives shoppers real choices. But if you are looking for a Camry/Accord alternative, you have to downsize to a Fusion or upsize to a Five Hundred.
Loren
The Cobalt is quite a fine VW Golf/Jetta clone, by the way, and doesn't feel any more cramped than a Civic. I just wish they'd done some forward thinking and aimed at the NEW Jetta instead of the old one in terms on dimensions - after all, the weight of the Cobalt, due to its solid body, is up there with the new Jetta. Ironically, it weighs almost the same as the Malibu! In its current sizing, the Cobalt is a woman's/college male (pre-girth expansion) car, too small for families (except single mom's). The trunk is its major failing, the opening is much smaller than on the Cavalier, I think you could fit a wheelie (hard sided airplane carry on) or soft sided bags through there, but watch out for anything bigger - it would fit in the trunk, but you won't be able to get it in there!
The Cobalt's big plus is, it is ideal for a second car, commuter; stay at home spouse takes the larger, lower gas mileage car, commuting spouse takes the Cobalt. Compared to the next best car (actually better, except for the lousy side impact crashes), the Focus, the Cobalt has a much stronger engine. Also, Chevy has a better track record than Ford on initial run "bugs". The Focus was a disaster at introduction! Despite the bigger, stronger engine, the Cobalt is rated with essentially the same mileage as the Focus. I would choose the Cobalt over the Focus or similar cars based on the safety alone.
I'd put the categories like this:
1. Cobalt/Civic/Neon/old Jetta - similar size, Cobalt heavier due to more solid construction. Cobalt passes the new, very demanding www.IIHS.org side impact test.
2. Focus, new Jetta. Focus fails the side impact test, new Jetta passes.
3. Fusion/Mazda6 (virtually identical). The Mazda6 fails the new side impact test - it was tested without side curtain airbags and Mazda did not offer to pay for a test with side curtain airbags (the IIHS will only test with side airbags if the manufacturer pays for it, unless side airbags are standard). Presumably Mazda did not pay for a retest, because they are probably retooling to reinforce the body for 2006, like Honda did between the 2004 failed CR-V and the 2005 CR-V with standard side curtain airbags which passed - but only after the body had been beefed up. I think it is fairly safe to assume the 2006 Fusion will incorporate a beefed up cage around the doors, but we can't be certain until testing.
4. Accord/Camry/Malibu. The Malibu feels cheap to me in comparison to the fit and finish on the Cobalt. It is really plane jane compared to its competitors.
5. Five Hundred. Haven't drive it or sat in one, but it is pretty big.
Loren
Check out www.iihs.org for the tested weights of the 3 Cobalts used: All were about 2820 pounds. This makes sense as the Cobalt is built on the same platform as the Saturn ION, which weighs around 2770 pounds. If you believe the Chevy website, this would mean the Cobalt weighs as much as the Malibu!
I rented the new Cobalt from Alamo and I have to say I could not believe this was a Chevy. Among the most impressive things to me were; 1)the leg room is enormous! (seems best in class to me, I am 6'1"), 2)the Kia Spectra/VW Golf seat-height adjustment handle, 3)NVH, this car is quiet! I can't believe that there are no rattles are vibrations that make there way into the cabin like on most other GM cars. The NVH is really up to Hyundai/Kia and Toyota Standards in this car, 4)The Driver Information Center on a $15000 car??, I couldn't believe that either. I am not sure that there are any other $14-$15K cars with this option and 5)The GREAT Ecotec 4 Cylinder Engine carried over from the Cavalier. This engine may not provide the superior MPG of the Corolla and Civic, but on my rental (that I drove pretty fast/hard) I achieved 29MPG and that is nearly as good as the 31MPG I achieved with my 1.8L Toyota VVTi Engine in my Prizm, but with seemingly much more power.
The other car I was considering with the Cobalt were the new Kia Spectra. First thing I should say is that both are very refined in terms of NVH. The Spectra has a better warranty (even though Chevy just upped the powertrain to 5YR/60,000) but was so much more maintenance intensive. It had a timing belt that needed to be changed every 60K ($400 job) versus the Cobalt's timing chain that never needs to be replaced. Also the Cobalt has long-life fluids that have extended change times that the Spectra did not have. The last deciding factor was the engines. With the Cobalt's 2.2L Ecotec, I get a much quicker car with the same MPG as a Spectras 2.0L, a WIN-WIN for me.
I looked at another class-leader, the Mazda 3, but in my opinion the design was not as conservative as the Cobalt's (I prefer conservative long-lasting good looks to trendy fad looks) and the price was more. I know the 3 is a tick faster, but I liked the Cobalt's legroom and Driver Information Center quite a bit. I think conservative styling is the right way for Chevy to have gone with the Cobalt as conservative styling is what works for the last generation compact class leaders, the Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla.
Bottom line, if you are looking in the compact class, you have to put aside the past with the "less than stellar" Cavalier/Sunfire Twins and give GM another chance. This time there shouldn't be the "recall" issues of the past as the engine/trans are proven carryovers from the Cavalier. I also hope that GM stops with the ridiculous $4000-$5000 rebates as this car doesn't need them to compete in the class and those rebates may make for sales, but they also anger current GM Owners as it kills their resale values and at $14K starting price this car is pretty fairly priced right out of the box versus the overpriced Cavalier.
This Chevy Cobalt and even the Pontiac G6 (and other recent vehicles from Buick, Cadillac) are "Genesis" Cars for GM and if they continue down this path, I think GM Brands will be the "must-have" brands of the future like today with Nissan and Toyota. Remember, at one time people laughed at those "funny Japanese Cars" with the funny names and look at Toyota, Honda and Nissan now. I look for the Cobalt to start winning comparos in Motor Trend and Car and Driver soon and if you are in the market for a high-quality premium compact car the Cobalt may be right for you too. I love mine!
Loren
Just thought some would want to know...
Loren
It appears to be Chevrolet's current answer to the import sport coupes, sedans. Saturn was the import fighter, but competition, and slow model introduction hurt them in the last few years. I think the Cobalt is priced for what it is, and competes well with imports in its premium compact car catagory. It is built on a solid chassis foundation shared with the Malibu, Saab, and Opel.
As good as the Cobalt is, I still haven't decided if I want to go Cobalt or not. I like a variety of cars-CTS, Grand Prix, Malibu, Impala, Lacrosse, and probably the bargain of the auto industry, the Chevy Aveo. With the Aveo, I would have a lot of money left over, but the Cobalt would be a nice upgrade from that.
If you're in the market for a small small car, wait for the new Accent/Rio that will debut in the Fall, which, Im sure, will blow the Aveo away.
~alpha
1) Is the electronic-assisted steering still fairly tight feeling if you have to swerve quickly to avoid debris on the highway? In other words, how's the tolerance in the steering mechanism?
2) How is the shoulder/elbow room for the driver and front passenger when speaking in terms of the average-sized male?
3) How smoothly does the transmission shift through all of the gears?
I've been thinking about taking one out for a test drive soon.
Ron M.
I also disagree about the refinement comment. The Aveo is very refined, accept for its motor which from what I understand has only received a recent fuel injection upgrade. 103 hp is plenty for this size car. They are as quick, or quicker than its competition, and fairly economical with a close to 30 mpg over-all average. In the Aveo forums there are people getting between 35-40 mpg on the highway.
Motorweek road test picked the Aveo over the Toyota Echo, the Focus, and the KIA.
And unless you __really__ enjoy new model teething problems, you might want give the Cobalt a year to sort itself out. By then you will have more engine and option choices.
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Pretty good.
Chevrolet car sales as a whole are up 7.6% for 2005 year to date (January thru April).