Chevrolet Cobalt

m1miata · May 2005

Low profile tires are more likely to have damaged rims, and tires. The ride is rougher, the cost of tires is higher, and you would gain less in performance as compared to GM putting a more sophisticated suspension. As for looks, large wagon wheels on cars have that ricer car, or SUV image to me. I have 14" mags with Dunlop A2 185/60 tires and it is just fine for daily driving and back road runs. You can easily more than double the yellow signs on turns, and in many a case, unless you know what is up ahead, you can get into trouble fast. On the straights it does not matter on tire size. NASCAR uses tires that flex and they are 15". Don't see them as not gripping. What I do is to add some extra air to the tires, if it is going to be mainly all twisties on a run. Some tires have a stiffer sidewall, so you can have a higher profile while maintaining more safety for the rims. Good tires, like Yoko EVS100 or Toyo Ts1 will make a difference. When you get really wide tires you can get the tramline effect. If you need a Cobalt for the track, it may make perfect sense. It also takes more power for larger wheel sizes. Why not just buy a used Camaro SS? Good gas mileage, more power than the Cobalt SS. Actually more HP than the Mustang GT. With a normal size for a smaller car, such as 15" or 16" you can get light weight wheels and save lots of pounds compared to steelies. Less unsprung weight the best. And you can afford to buy new tires more often. The Tire Rack has some neat deals, IMHO. Were they putting electric steering only in the base models and not the SS? Does anyone really want electric assist steering or throttle-by-wire in cars? Come to think of it, I did see some very large wheels on car at the National Auto Museum in Reno and other auto shows. Not sure about the flexing on wooden spokes :surprise: I think the hot car may be the Mazda3. That is once it is no longer hot inside. Seems they have an issue with weak air conditioning. Once that is solved, or they care to do so, the car I bet will win over the Cobalt in cornering fun. This will be one interesting road test shoot out when the Cobalt and Mazda3, with other cars, go head to head. Mazda3 needs a coupe version of that sedan. Hats off to Chevy for including a coupe.
Loren

m1miata · May 2005

Hey Meade, that Mazda3 is pretty neat. Do you hear any whine noise from the electric steering? Is the air OK? Is that a stick? Did you try out a Cobalt before buying the Mazda3? If so, how did it compare? Yeap, I guess some day I will have those 17" wheels. Not on a '96 Miata though. I don't think Cobalt included that telescopic steering wheel, which is something I could use with my short arms. My Miata is a second car, mainly for sporting around a couple times a week. I seem to use my other car more. Someday I would like to have a daily driver for going to the store and for play. The Mazda3 or a Cobalt if they perk up the style a bit, may be a good choice. I would miss the Miata club runs though. Think they would notice the 3 was not an MX-5? Bet they would

I like the RWD so will be considering a Mustang as well. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how Cobalt compares to Mazda3 and other cars. Buying a Cobalt used would be the way to go. Buy low - lose less!
Loren :shades:

pat · May 2005

I'm sure that you meant no offense, but since the ricer terms arose from an ethnic slur we ask that they not be used in our Forums - thanks.

m1miata · May 2005

OK, I should have said then, you don't want car to look over done for an small car, and trying to be something it is not - having too much over-the-top look to it. Sorry if someone took some of read of what this California term means. Japan is fine, people are fine as a whole, cars are fine. Sorry to offend anyone. Reference was to car look, and nothing to do with people, or origin of the make. Will use over-the-top styling now as the terminology.

Did you know that the Corolla still sells for $14K with a stick? Has anyone driven the new Corolla and the Cobalt the same day for a comparison? Or the Civic? And did they end up buying a Cobalt? It looks like Hyundai is coming in under the radar with increase numbers of sales. They look alot like Japan makes, so many people have yet to notice that they are out there in ever increasing numbers. Right now it looks like the advantage of Cobalt is in the HP dept, but with so many other cars going head to head, perhaps GM should look to some other advantages as selling points, maybe free maintenance for four years, complete upgrade package in the car for say $15K, or something else not coming to mind at the moment, just to differentiate their car from the rest. I am afraid it will be lost amongst all the rest. Going RWD would be a possibility, if the cost was not so high, and in snow country, I know you guys and gals would need the traction control and other stuff for the RWD. Anyway, at some point, if not in the Cobalt size, they should be moving to cars with RWD. I think 2008 is the date for Monte Carlo RWD, but I am not sure on that one. Still think a smaller one, like maybe Malibu size in RWD, with an inline 6 would be cool and if sold for say under $21 may compete with BMW on the low end. Just a dream? I just don't think the course GM is taking will work. They must upscale and make really different looking and performing cars to survive. Let Korea and Japan fight it out on the low end cars.... but wait, it looks like Japan may be moving more towards mid to top line, and hybrids. How much of Daweo does GM own? Maybe it should be the low end badge like the Aveo as a GM Daweo and RWD mid-sized cars as GM Holden. Will there always be a Chevy and Cadillac - perhaps so. The Pontiac and Buick lines? If they downsized to four to six models, other than Cadillacs, and called them GM's without the badging of Chevy,Pontiac or Buicks would that hurt sales??? Brand loyalty with GM, some say so!
Loren

poncho167 · May 2005

I have no need for 17" wheels, but 16" wheels would make sense for a better ride. Why wouldn't a Cobalt owner want larger tires like every other car on the market. Years ago they made fun of the 13" tires, then the 14", now auto writers say the 15" tires are too small and lame.

You are correct m1miata, going to too big with tires will only make the ride rough and potentially cause a bent rim.

m1miata · May 2005

While my Dad's car is a Camry, and could use a larger wheel, the current 14" does the job just fine. With Toyo Ultra 800 tires, you do not hear the tires at all. Very smooth ride. Yes, 15" or even 16" may be better. I had 13" wheels on an Opel Manta Rallye, and they had one heck of a time back when, balancing those wheels. I wish it did have 15" wheels. The Celica still comes with 15" wheels and it will out handle most cars on the road. Cobalt will look just fine and drive just fine with 15" wheels, and I guess 16" if it makes those doing reviews and the rest of the herd happy. The 17" and 18" will just slow the car down, add cost for tires replacement, and if in a low enough profile make the seem like it has no shocks. For marketing, yes, they should have 18" to 20" wheels and those huge bass woofers and such. Yeah, it sells, so go ahead and do it. - Loren

poncho167 · May 2005

I too had an Opel Manta years ago. Mine was a 1974 model, light green, with an automatic transmission. I bought it from a friend for either $100 or $200, I can't remember, and used it for my winter beater back in the 1980's. The car got reasonable mileage for a one with over 100,000 miles. That 1900 cc engine was one of the biggest of it's time along with the BMW 2002. The automatic was the worse part. I ended up giving it away.

aveman · May 2005

I guess I think the wheel choices Chevy is going with is mostly pretty good. The 15" inch wheels offered on the LS model are the perfect size for my needs.I don't know about Cobalt for 2006, but the HHR will offer a sport suspension option on some models. That option will come with 17" wheels. While I sort of wish that option was available with 16"" inch wheels, the standard suspension is probaly better for my needs.I do not need the power of the SS model, but the upgrades to the VVt engine do make it tempting.The move to larger wheels is pretty much industry wide for sportier cars.I wonder what the insurance penalty will be for the 2.4 engine. I do hope to see an upgraded 2.2l soon , to improve fuel milage figures.
Then I hope to see a diesel option for Cobalt.. To me these steps will be needed to shoot the Cobalt to the top of the sales charts.I am not sure what the barriers to diesel for USA are but it would good for GM not to be slow to break the barrier.If I had the cash now, would I buy an LS Cobalt.. I probably would.When I can afford a new car,, in about a year, Ihope the Cobalt is still at the top of the list.

m1miata · May 2005

Cobalt, once into or beyond the base price of say a Mustang or even the soon to be gone Celica, really make sense? I still don't understand someone wanting a Cobalt SS, which will be a souped up economy car, when they could be in something up the next tier. If they want light weight and quick handling, it has to be Celica. For looks and overall package, including a V6, the Mustang with a stick seems pretty good. Well, that said, if the gas is now flowing into the tanks better. Ah yes, the new car blues have befallen some new Stang owners. My bet is that Cobalt will have some quirks along the way too. And then there is the Acura which starts around the price of the Cobalt SS. Just thinking it is trying to move into too high a territory and will be fly out of bounds.
Loren

kurtamaxxguy · May 2005

at a Chevy clinic I attended, the reason for huge wheels ("17 - 18") on Cobalt and Malibu was purely marketing, which strongly believed the huge rims gave the cars the urban "bling-bling" look that supposedly everyone wants.

meanwhile the engineers were stating smaller (16") wheels and upgraded tires would make the cars perform much better.

I guess it depends on whether you are buying the car for show or go?

And for that matter, how important should exterior styling be, given that we are __inside__ the cars most of the time while driving them?

poncho167 · May 2005

Whether it is a Cobalt SS, Neon, Civic, Ion, etc., they all cost about the same in their sport configuration. These cars are for the tuner minded who like the compact size, weight, and style.

A lot of people who buy and build imports, and even the new American pocket rocket cars, don't particularily care for Camero's and Mustangs. The import tuner is known to put $10-20,000 into their 4-cylinder engine for an edge on the other drivers.

The Celica was ok, but it didn't sell very well. I think the Cobalt and other coupes looks better than the Celica. I may be wrong by not looking, but I think the Cobalt SS, Ion, Neon, can also out perform the Celica in handling, excelleration, etc.

ndsax707 · May 2005

Bingo. The Cobalt SS is at the top of it's class in handling. Those 18" wheels must really be hurting its performance...

Motor Trend Feb 2005

"The Cobalt SS is the fastest regular production front-drive car through the slalom we've tested in three years, rocking through the cones even faster than the new Corvette Z51. The SS out cornered the VW R32 on the skidpad, outgunned the Mini Cooper S 0-to-60 mph, and outstopped the Subaru Impereza WRX 60-to-0 mph."

The Celica GTS is $22,500, has 180 hp and 130 lb-ft of torque. The Cobalt SS costs about the same, has 205 hp and 200 lb-ft of torque, and has superior handling. It's a no-brainer.

More about wheel sizes...
Loren claimed NASCAR uses tires that flex and they are 15". Don't see them as not gripping. NASCAR and every other major racing body limits wheel and tire sizes to promote competition and increase safety, not to maximize performance. NASCAR's limit is 15". LeMans Prototypes have an 18" limit. Look at the following list and tell me again why your 14" Miata wheels perform better than 17" wheels would. I'm not talking about practicality, just performance.

Car - Tire size front / rear

Ford GT - 18/19
Dodge Viper - 18/19
Carrera GT - 19/20
SLR McLaren - 19/19
Corvette - 18/19
Enzo - 19/19

m1miata · May 2005

First of all, while slalom and later G tests are good indicators of handling, it is not the end all. Have you seen a road test, or track test between the Cobalt SS, Acura RSX and Celica GT? I would not buy the Celica GT-S but would instead go for the GT. Less HP, but almost the same torque. Unless drag racing or on the track, GT will have adequate torque to sport the back roads. A Celica GT will hold resale value better, as it is not a modified economy coupe and is a Japan make. The Mustang V6 has 205 HP without all the supercharger stuff going on. Cost the same or less than the Cobalt SS. I did not say that NASCARs could not handle better with larger tires, say on a road course. I did say they are not flying off the track just because the tires are less in size. If you want to pretend your car is a LeMans racer, fine, pay the extra money for the tires. My Miata, with 14" wheels will take all the turns on tight twisty roads at around double speed if ya want to, so how much faster do you need to go? Porsche 944 came with 16" wheels, and I bet ya it out handles the Cobalt. Corvettes use to come with 16" wheels. Heck a lot of performance cars came with 15" wheels. A Celica still has 15" wheels. As for the max on Miata, I think it is 16" size before the car slows down and performance suffer, for the first gen. cars, and 17" are OK on the second gen. cars. The suspension is pretty tight on those race cars. I doubt it will be the same on a Cobalt, so will it really be doing better at handling the unsprung weight - nahhh. I assume it out later G tests the VW due to the high profile of the VW compared to the Cobalt. The modern day tires have really helped the scores for later G tests. That said, there is a lot of bumps in the roads, and power shifting going on, and a whole lot of other elements once actually driving the car on the road. Good that it does well in the later G. Hope it does well on the road too. I am sure it will perform well. GM has made cars that did well on the road. CobaltSS may be just perfect, in its class. That said, where's the value? If you want a street car racer, why not buy a used Camaro SS which still more power than the current Mustang GT, or a used Corvette ( they have big tires, now-a-days ). Now a Corvette is Americas sports car. The Corvette and Mustang are also RWD. Mustang RWD and under $20K. And that is Americas Pony car.
Loren

ndsax707 · May 2005

Loren,

I think this really comes down to us having different automotive philosophies. I think you're older, wiser, more experienced, and attracted to cars with above-average abilities and modest but attractive styling. I'm younger, smarter, and better-looking. No, I'm kidding. I'm attracted to cars that are at the top of their class in performance, and sporty and aggressive in appearance.

I am still learning about different cars and trying to experience them all for myself. I love driving and I love pushing the car and myself to the edge. Faster is never fast enough. I'll sacrifice practicality and convenience for performance any day as long as it's within reason. Firmer ride, bent rims, more expensive tires? Screw it, give me the 18"ers any day. I like how they look and I like how they drive. I believe you that your 14" Dunlops give you everything you need out of your Miata. For me that wouldn't be enough. The ultimate car for me has always been the Corvette. But until I can afford to keep one as my weekend car, I'll be interested in getting as much performance as I can out of my sporty daily driver. You're content to let good enough alone, but I'm always looking for more.
.

m1miata · May 2005

Yes, from experience, which means some years of owning cars, I see the Cobalt as going down the same path as previous modified small cars of recent years. You pay more for the added soup to the point where you could have purchased the next car up. And yes, the most fun Cobalt will be the SS model and it will do a quick zero to a speeding ticket. Actually, if performance for the dollar is the deal of the day, the Camaro SS was and is still the hot ticket, I would think. The 5.7 liter 310HP is more than a match for a 4 cylinder anything! Just saying that when you get into top pay for the little car, you never get the return on cash paid... or should I say in recent years, a good return. Now a Nova or Plymouth Duster 340 would pay out big time if bought back in the 60's or 70's, but I don't see this FWD and super charged 4 cylinder cars as having the same lust to them looking years ahead. I could be wrong on that. Never say never. The Cobalt could catch on as some sort of new cult street racer. If I was paying that much for FWD cars, I would be looking more for Acura RSX quality. For visual bang for buck, there are plenty, like the Stang. As for better performance from the 18" over a 16" on a Cobalt, I bet ya it is all for show. I think the term is that they look sick, which I now understand means something good and not that the car has sudden gone ill. Let's see bad is good, and sick is healthy.... ahhhh, I can't keep up with reverse speak. If one is looking for cornering capabilities, you can look to the Miata. FWD cars, at the limit may not give ya what you want. But then again, I think that on the street, one has limits as to chances to be taken, and becoming yet another national statistic 1144 at an early age is not something to look forward to. If young people do buy this car to take it to the limit, the insurance company will find that limit very fast. Faster than a speeding ticket, is the premium to be paid on insurance after a few cars are wrapped around trees. Don't know what the top end speed of the Cobalt SS is, but would not want to see a wreck in one over 100 MPH without a full roll cage. For $20k, you can also buy a used Corvette. Serious power and handling, and of course buyer beware as it is a beast. And you can race the Cobalt on the track after they are finished playing with the cones. - Loren

poncho167 · May 2005

There is a big difference between a loaded car and stepping up to the next level of car. For me if I was to buy a loaded Aveo or Cobalt I would not want to step up to the next level because that level is a base model car. For instance if I had a loaded $14,500 Aveo, why wouldn't I just jump into a Cobalt? Because I wouldn't want a base Cobalt. I would want the loaded $19,500 Cobalt. But if I am interested in a $19,500 Cobalt, I may as well jump into a base Malibu. But again I wouldn't want a base Malibu, I would want one that has all the features. Where do I go from hear? I am not going to a Park Avenue Ultra now..

exalteddragon1 · May 2005

And the automakers know that, its why they do this whole pricing strategy in the first place.

Does anyoneknoe if they will replace the 2.0L S/C with a S/C version of the 2.4L? They showed a version in Germany that does 250hp!

m1miata · May 2005

I see that " poncho167 " likes the fully loaded cars in each line. I am sure the dealership and GM love you. They would hate to see me come on in, as I am just the opposite, as in cheap. You are a better consumer, no doubt. I find some options annoying, as well as, expensive and un-needed. Yeah, there are some cool things which would be nice to have though. If they would make electric windows with power always on, I may even enjoy those. As it is now, I have two cars without power windows, and love it. No fishing around to find a key to roll up windows, or a passenger dying in the heat. You always get your money back on air conditioning, and auto transmission, so I guess that makes sense, though most come standard anyway. I would try a stick first to see how good it is for that make, then decide on stick vs. auto. Sunroofs take up headroom, can squeek or leak, and I don't see them as anything all that great. Get a targa top or drop top if sun and wind is your thing. I have a Miata, which is good for top down on good weather days, but I got the convertible since the car is made that way. Ya know, it seems to be the last 4 cylinder RWD sports car now. Gone is the 240sx, rest its soul. I read the review on the Cobalt SS, and it is as I thought it would be, a good car, but not an RSX. Cobalt in regular flavor is what I would buy, unless the SS could be found for half price in three years time, and owned by an older driver.
Loren

mdaffron · May 2005

While I know this is not a comparison discussion, a few questions were asked, so I will answer them quickly and let you guys move on ...

(1) I did not drive a Cobalt before purchasing my Mazda3. We had a horrible experience with a 1995 Cavalier (four head gaskets in 52,000 miles) and have sworn off GM products -- for now. By contrast, this is my sixth new Mazda vehicle since 1991, and I have been a very pleased customer.

(2) My 2005 Mazda3 is a five-speed hatchback/wagon/whatever they're calling it this week. I moved up from a 2000 Protege sedan and I love the flexibility and sportiness of this car, not to mention the horsepower increase from 125 to 160. I would not buy an automatic car.

(3) My Mazda3 is almost two months old and has a little over 2,000 miles on it. We've already had a few days above 90 and my air conditioning works fine -- whatever problem there was appears to have been limited to early 1994 models (most of the people complaining about it over on the Mazda3 discussions purchased their Mazda3s in October through December 2003). And I'm a big guy (280 pounds) and it takes quite a bit to cool down my big ol' bod, especially since I'm normally commuting 19 miles each way in a business suit.

(4) It's Velocity Red. :shades:

Enjoy your Cobalts; I'll see you at the next traffic light!

Meade

m1miata · May 2005

Some people have reported a whine sound from the electric assist steering on Mazda3 cars. I see GM is moving to electric steering as well -- any strange sound coming out of Cobalts? What's so good about all this electric stuff? First throttle-by-wire, which some have problems with and now the steering assist by electronics. I just want good feel like I get from my Miata. Steering always good, no noise, no artificial feel there at all. I take it throttle-by-wire is not on the Cobalt, or am I wrong. Looks like Cobalt will be a good little car for those getting one. I think that the Mazda3 inside and outside looks more interesting. Not saying that Cobalt looks bad. Just think that a little more character, and attitude needs to be added to the style. Some personality. As for Mazda3, it is the sedan and not the hatchback I am talking about. There are some in the 3 series a bit over-the-top in fashion. Velocity Red, you say? Ah yes, speeding while stopped. I owned a Stealth in Firestorm Red, and you could see it for miles. Have fun in your Mazda3 and for those in Cobalts, have lots of fun too!
:shades:
Loren

poncho167 · May 2005

Chevy has used the electric power steering on a few cars for at least 2-years starting with the Malibu I believe. Manufactures are starting to go electric because there is less drag on the engine from a drive belt, and electric power steering has no drive belt on a power steering pump. So that should be good for a couple of free horsepower.

I have always preferred a stick shift as well. I know on the older automatic transmissions, you could count on losing between 20-30 hp just by having that luxury.

bporter1 · May 2005

Has anyone seen the report from the NHTSA about the Cobalt Side Impact Crash Tests? I have and I am very disappointed that the Cobalt did poorly in the test. The car was not tested with side impact airbags, but it still should have done better for a new design.I know the Cobalt did pretty well in the IIHS side impact test with side airbags. Anyway,the Cobalt was high on my list, but if I end up buying a small car it will be a Corolla.

dontshopthewal · May 2005

Safety is important, but the tests aren't 100% real-world. For instance, my grandmother was hit by a Dodge Ram 4x4 traveling at 55mph in her 1999 Malibu (no side airbags) on the passenger side. On the passenger side of the car was my 86 year-old great-aunt. The crash did not harm either my grandmother or great-aunt, except for the aches and pains they received. It could have just been grace from Heaven, but I feel that they were pretty safe in that car which undoubtedly would not have tested very well.

I would take the IIHS tests more seriously than NHTSA although both are reliable.
Its good that you are taking safety seriously though.

tiger10 · May 2005

the corolla got good ratings in side impact crash test ratings compared to the poor ratings all the others got in the class. corolla is the best compact car out there and i know it because i own one. :shades:

poncho167 · May 2005

The Cobalt and import Corolla are the best for their class according to the crash tests. The Cobalt and the Corolla also feared the same without the side impact bags. So the question is this, support a new upscale compact car that is rated really well all-around, or chose to purchase another good car made by another country.

jlecc2288 · May 2005

2005 Cobalt Sedan purchased new in March. 2300 miles. AC doesn't work (compressor doesn' kick in) when the car is hot. First time the dealer said it was a loose wire. Second time he said a recall fix corrected it. I'm about to go back for a third time and the car is less than three months old. Anyone else have this problem?

bporter1 · May 2005

That is a really good question. My mother owns a 2004 Corolla, and she loves it.
I have driven the Corolla, and it is a very good car. I have not driven the Cobalt, but have looked at them, and sat inside them. I think that GM finally did their homework and brought out a car that is very competitive. I have a GM card so the incentive to buy GM is still there.

Dontshopthewal: I realize that the crash tests are not real world figures, and each crash is different, but man can GM get it right on all fronts for once?

m1miata · June 2005

Now we're talking! New base price for the Cobalt starting at $12,470.63 Not bad for the little coupe. I am thinking of up sizing my cars going forward, but I do like smaller for gas mileage and scooting around town. This looks like a pretty good deal. Was also looking at the price of Monte Carlos starting at $17,952.80. The G6 is now $18,497.38 for the V6 4dr. Looks like it has the newer 3.5 V6 compared to 3.4 and 3.8 in the Monte Carlo, which changes next year. Could very well be wrong, but it looks like some of the prices are better than the previous rebates + this n' that to the net-net. Some look impressive. Those that paid more just a few days ago, I am sure will not be so happy.
Loren

johnclineii · June 2005

I can guarantee that some customers will be FURIOUS they can't get the huge rebates GM has accustomed them to along with these far more realistic prices. I wonder what effect, if any, this new pricing scheme will have on financing.

poncho167 · June 2005

If this is part of the new GM pricing strategy, is it only temporary? I heard that the public will be able to receive the same deal as a GM employee. I know that the put your neighbor in a new GM program (given by the employees) gives 18% off the list price.

Yes, there probably will be people who will get angry because of the lack of the rebate. They just need to be educated much like those who shop at Saturn and Car Max, who pay list price for a car, with no dickering.

m1miata · June 2005

I would think that those that bought a couple days ago at a higher price may not be too happy now. Once you lower a price to a certain level, how will you go back. Like showing your hand in poker, is it now?
Loren

hammen2 · June 2005

Actually, since they went to lower GMS prices, rebates were lowered (if not eliminated entirely), and things like special APR offers or lease deals were reduced or eliminated, this may not be the screaming deal it sounds like. Many folks who just bought cars are finding the differences in the tens or hundreds - certainly not thousands of $$$.

--Robert

scott1256 · June 2005

were good again - 23,649 units sold.

I think the crash safety ratings have boosted the Cobalt's standing. It has moved (along with the Corolla) to the top of the list for a lot of buyers.

m1miata · June 2005

I would never lease a car. I suppose some are getting a break on their taxes, so I makes sense. I am not in that position to need a tax break. As for buying on time, I no longer have a desire to make banks or GMAC financing any richer. I prefer to save money. What I can afford to buy, I buy. A borrower, nor a lender be

Ben, knows. I do like the idea of a lower price on these GM cars. A few prices still seem a bit high, but most look really good. Now, do they have the cars I want? Wish more had stick shifts, but I guess most Americans are shiftless. :surprise:
Loren

poncho167 · June 2005

Americans sure don't like to shift, but I do. My last three vehicles have been manuel shift. I like having control of the car and would have a hard-time adjusting to an automatic. In fact I have had to lower my future car pick expectations based on if they have a stick shift or not. It was hard selling the 1967 GTO convertible 4-speed last summer after losing storage space.

Americans account for some 5% of new car sales with stick shift, while in Europe I believe it's over 50%.

sean3 · June 2005

Looked at a Cobalt LT coupe today, must say this looks like the best GM has ever done at a serious competition. Any coments are welcome
Dashboard Looks like it was lifted from a Toyota, very quality looking peice

Simple side mouldings, modern pull style exterior door handles.

Flush rear and windshield moldings, (ever notice other GM's, they stick out and look cheap)

My only reservations are minor as I look at details.

The Old style whip antenna looks cheap, intergrate it into the rear window, it amazes me the technical advances auto makers have made but still stick an ugly 1950's antenna on the finished product/

The base engine has no Variable valve technology.

Will the round taillamps look good a few years from now? (coupe)

I think the coupe looks best from the side, the front has a late 80's econo look, But all in all I'm liking the looks a bit more than the outgoing civic.

They had the employee price posted which was 2,000 off msrp, seems like you can get this deal even without the employee price. Looks like the interior is where GM FINALLY honed in on, maybe the seats less so, but the dash looks as good as anything coming from hontoy..the parking brake looks a little akward, and the post mounted locks look a little funny,

What color do you think looks the best in the coupe,

especially in the area of the rear lamp surroundings? I am considering this little monster strongly, any opinions Thanks Sean

m1miata · June 2005

I would not worry about the round tail lights not looking good years from now, since they have been like that on Corvettes for decades -- everyone loves the Vette! I would worry about the arm rests wearing out and getting dirty looking. The front looks boring. Overall it looks pretty nice. For those wanting something that will stand out more, there is the Monte Carlo starting at under $18K right now. At 180HP and 32 MPG freeway, it is still sort of an economy car. Sure beats the Mustang V6 automatic gas mileage. Looked at one today - not bad. Should be RWD, but what the heck. Look at Mustang sales - what was GM thinking :confuse: Just think if the Cobalt, G6 and Monte had RWD, 5 speed options as a stick and 5 sp. auto. It would be selling faster for sure. A V8 Monte Carlo - please. The V6 3400 and 3800 are OK by me, but for added sale, they need the V8 back. How about a 3.5 for the Cobalt? As for colors, red and that new metalic orange is cool. The darker blues look good. Not sure I like white and silver on this car. What do others think?
Loren

sean3 · June 2005

The Monte is to wanna-be for my taste, yes the 3800 Is one of GM's best powerplants which should be standard in this coupe, with the V8 on SS.FWD, nah,

I am thinking the Cobalt will take on the Bargain basement cavalier image soon? what do you think?
___why did GM carry over the cheap drivetrain from the cavalier on the new cobalt, No clean slate?
___They should have deleted or relocated the trunk lock cylinder
___is this the same engine that ate head gaskets for lunch?
___Is this ecotech engine nearly refined as Toyotas small 4cyl?

I'm not really a brand loyalist, in my 20's, and have owned Nissan,Honda,Mitsu,Olds,Buick,Geo,Chevy,Chrysler and consistently the Japanese brands have always aged better in my case, even having twice the miles of some of there US plates,
I must say the drivetrain in the 3.8L GM's i've owned have been dead reliable, its just everything else that was just so-so. I want to beleive that GM is starting to see the light, but it seems to late, They are a bohemeth of a company, with fixed expenses retirement-healthcare killing them, along with the cry baby union, It's hard to see them remain competitive, Toyota is knippin at the Generals heels, But hey GM agreed to those Fat pension/healthcare plans so...GM got to Big and comfortable and stayed there.....for years..so its hard to feel bad for them..I hope they can turn it around, they used to own 1/2 the NA market share!! now they will be lucky to take 20% by the time Toyota gets there slice sad for a company thats been around forever, threatened by a once offshore company that everybody lauged at, I used to favor and somewhat defend foreign nameplates, But now I feel like GM is the little guy trying to get there cut to stay afloat, i never in a million years thought GM could ever wimper to another carmaker on home soil...Lazy and unimaginative for to long..GM needs to kick it into gear, and fast..There products sit on the same platform and drivetrains for way to long, Give us a mass market must have, they don't..A Camry of GM's
and perhaps a Nice alternative to the Sienna. Odyssey, they do very well in there segment.
I read that Chrysler started the Minivan research and development thing back in early 1977 and they were the first and they sold like
crazy, I guess all the good ideas are already taken, But GM gave us the Wondefull dustbuster/anteater looking Silohuette,Transport as an answer to Chrysler's successfull established Van thing..They always seem late to the game, Heck chrysler group always seems like the outa the box thinkers..They go after the gotta have it factor,but have there solid core products already making good profits..so they kinda take a chance..and they were at the brink of bankruptcy a couple times....Times have sure changed for the big 3..I think the Cobalt is much refined to the Neon, but the Neon is on its way out, soon to be replaced. so who knows. IMHO. Thanks Sean

johnclineii · June 2005

Well, let's see, sean3:

*GM used to have nearly 60 percent of the US market! They were widely suspected of keeping AMC afloat for antitrust reasons.

*It was FORD who developed the minivan, but didn't have the guts to market it. When Lee Iacocca was fired at Ford, he went to Chrysler where he encouraged them to improve on Ford's ideas and get the vehicle out. Renault was also instrumental in all this, and Lee ended up getting Chrysler to acquire AMC from Renault.

*Whip antennas? Most manufacturers are going back to them. There are way too many complaints about reception from the in glass antennas, and the whip antennas are less expensive to boot. Power ones result in many, many warranty claims. Even the new Ford Five Hundred has a whip antenna.

*Meanwhile, you want them to delete the trunk key? Another cost saver most companies are now doing that GM didn't do here? Can they win for losing?

*Head gaskets? In the mid-Nineties, as asbestos was removed from gaskets, nearly every company had engines eating gaskets for lunch. I, myself, had a 3800 from GM eat one on a 95 Olds LSS. GM's response? Nothing. Still, I bought two more of those engines from them in the next five years...the cars were the ones that I wanted most at the time, given my needs and budget. Now, GM offers nothing I want, and I own a Ford. I'd have liked to have seen the Bonneville kept up to date and priced reasonably, but neither happened.

*Yeah, Chrysler has been so innovative that IT is the one that survives only because of a Government bail out and incredible rebate program (Buy a car, get a check!) and it is the one now owned and ran by....Daimler of Germany.

The Cobalt is a fine car. Would that other GM cars were designed as well.
I agree with you as to engines, but I doubt the average potential buyer of a Cobalt cares, though.

aveman · June 2005

does anyone know the aerodynamic drag coefficent of the cobalt coupe verses the sedan. Any comments would be appreciated. I am trying to decide which model is best for me. The coupe already seems to have a weight advantage of about 200 pounds. I am curious if the coupe also has an aero advantage.I liked the view out of the sedan. If the sight lines out of the coupe are acceptable I may go that way.

poncho167 · June 2005

I don't believe that all cars should be rear-wheel-drive, but the Monte Carlo should be one of them. Later this year the Monte gets a 303 HP V8, but remains front-wheel-drive. Rear-wheel-drive comes for 2007-08 year when it's restyled.

What do you mean by cheap drivetrain? I am sure that the cost of the engine and transmission are no different than what another combination would cost. The 2.2 L eco-tech hasn't been around too long. The Cavalier and a couple others have used it in recent years. It cost tens of milllions of dollars to come out with a new engine, and the eco-tech series engines are considered by experts to possibly be the tops in thier catagory, even with the tried-and-true Toyota engine which is just a derivative off an earlier model engine.

I believe the engine with the head gasket problems was the 2.3 L Quad-4. Otherwise those engines were pretty descent, and did pretty well in racing.

I don't know about the bargain basement image when you have upscale features like leather, with steering wheel cruise control, music volume adjustment, optional Pioneer stereo with MP3, XM satellite radio, OnStar roadside assistance, etc.

The Aveo is supposed to fill the bargain economy buyers needs, which it has a strong foot-hold in right now.

Chrysler may have been the first U.S. automaker to market a mini-van, but VW was the first to the market in a mini-van, VW Bus.

stan6201 · June 2005

I was under the impression that the Cobalt with AT had remote start capability. I do not know where the impression came from but it was something I read (somewhere). I now have a Cobalt with AT and no remote start. Does anyone have any information that would help clear my confusion. BTW love the coupe with 1sb sort package and all audio options.

stan6201 · June 2005

The sport package come with the awful wing on the trunk that I will remove. What can I use to cap (plug) the holes left in the trunk? :confuse:

chrisducati · June 2005

a body shop is your best bet. Fill and paint the lid. Should be just a few hundred bucks...worth it.

My general opinion on the Cobalt is that it is a good looking car with only a few detail problems. I like the interior. I dislike the tail lights on the coupe.Or the Impala or Vette for that matter. The sedan needs more rear leg room. An Aveo has as much as the Cobalt. In my area I have yet to see one stickered for anything close to the base price. I would have to order one. 20G for a Cobalt is crazy....IMO.

m1miata · June 2005

Wings are a good idea, if you are driving over 120 MPH, you may experience some tail end lift on your Cobalt.... OK , back to reality... If you do not want the wing, is there not an option to delete wing? The style, or lack there of, on the Cobalt is like a Toyota, non-offensive, yet somehow boring. Good little car, should be priced around $13,000 to $15,000 range, give or take a few bucks. Too many other great options at higher prices. You can buy a Mazda6 for say $16,999 on sale, so why pay that for a Cobalt. No contest there. And by all means, get ride of that plastic ball on the stick shift. If that not the cheapest looking thing. And GM, let me tell ya, that arm rest is going to wear out quickly and turn dark from dirt. What were they thinking. And yeah, they did that on Mazda and Altima too - crazy.
:shades:
Loren

poncho167 · June 2005

I don't care for that spoiler myself but I am sure it's going over real well in California. You may have got the dealer to exchange for the smaller one, but I am not sure what kind of plug you could use, maybe ask the dealer?

As for the remote start, as far as I know it's only available on the Malibu, Monte Carlo.

stan6201 · June 2005

I think I found the answer to the remote start. The HHR will have it and it was probably talked about pre-production for the Cobalt (just like the 2.4l). After the HHR comes out I will see if I can get the option retrofitted on the Cobalt. Here in CA even the trash trucks have spoilers. :shades:

poncho167 · June 2005

The Cobalt with automatic comes with traction control, nice.

I saw an Orange coupe this morning.

The 4-speed automatic is an old, smooth, proven transmission. I would have thought that they would have a 5-speed auto (as with the Malibu), but not yet. I guess if you don't have the capacity to build all the transmissions needed, its best to stick with an old reliable model until the new ones are thoroughly tested.

The shifter in the base Cobalt is kindof basic, bland. I could get used to it, its no big deal. I believe the sport package option gives you a different shifter like in the SS model.

I don't see or care about the difference in plastics. For the most part it is all the same and just something for someone to nick-pick about. My 1992 Chevy pickup trucks plastic is fine. I never gave it a second thought, nor do I rub my hands or face against the plastic before and after I drive my vehicle.

micweb · June 2005

You said:

The 4-speed automatic is an old, smooth, proven transmission. I would have thought that they would have a 5-speed auto (as with the Malibu),

To the best of my knowledge, the Malibu has the venerable 4 speed too. What is odd is that last year they briefly had a 5 speed automatic tranny on the Saturn Ion, but then discontinued it (and the optional CVT) in favor of the 4 speed.

I test drove the 5 speed Saturn at that time and wasn't impressed with it. It didn't seem to add anything to the car versus the Neon with a 4 speed that we eventually got. I expected more from the extra speed; maybe it was the gearing set up. On a 2005 Honda CR-V we have, the 5 speed automatic is very neat (although it is slushy shifting from 1-2).

I test drove the 6 speed in the new Jetta. It is also very good.

I also recently test drove a 4 speed Cobalt, it was good, a little crisper shifting than my former Neon. I also rented a Focus with a 4 speed auto, and it was worse than the Neon and Cobalt.

To me the best thing about 5 and 6 speed automatics, is the ability to throw a downshift on the freeway without having to put up with the motor racing excessively. Ordinarily there is too much gap between 4 and 3 on a four speed automatic.

What is ironic is that, apart from long term reliability, most of these autos should feel about the same. They can be programmed to upshift, downshift under different throttle loads and drive conditions. The "doggy" 2002 Neon automatic was transformed by reprogramming into the excellent post-2003 tranny; it was like night and day. I wait for the day when speed shops sell gear to let you reflash your own automatic to match your driving preferences.

poncho167 · June 2005

I guess I wasn't to clear, the Malibu and the others also do not have a 5-speed auto. It's funny how so many people will pass on a car based solely on it having the latest transmission or not. Most would never know the difference.

Saturns CVT (made by another company) transmission was dropped after too many problems. The CVT is still a controversial transmission by other manufactures as well, and I wouldn't be caught with one. It will take a special technician to service this type of transmission, and at what expense?

I wish you good luck with your Neons automatic being that Chrysler has had a lot of problems their automatics not lasting long.

Chevrolet Cobalt

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