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Comments
I would contact the local district rep. and talk it all over. Plead you case and let them know that what happens with this leasing experience will effect how you view the GM company. They may wish to keep a customer, and their friends by backing you 100%. I would not count on that however, from what I hear most of the car manufacturers don't really appear to care how the customer feels about the auto they own, or how it effects the way you convey the experience to others. Sure, when all is going well, they are your friend. When something happens which could cost the corporation a buck, look out, the friendship may be over. You are leasing a first year car made by GM. You must expect at least 3 or more things which they got wrong. My last GM was in 8 times or more to fix this and that. This should not be the case though with a car built after 2001.
I bought an American make car, which I plan to keep between 3 to 7 years, depending on how good it is and my needs at the time. This is the first American car since 1994, so we will see how it goes. If it proves to be good, as it has so far - fine! If the car or the company lets me down, this would be the last American car. So far my PT Cruiser has been flawless - a first for me and an American brand.
Loren
Toyota has a real bad reputation in covering repairs also. Their big oil sledge problem made them finally admit that they were at fault, not the consumer who they said didn't maintain the car.
It is going to get interesting...
How this will affect GM/Ford pricing (including Cobalt) remains to be seen.
Toyota has a real bad reputation in covering repairs also. Their big oil sledge problem made them finally admit that they were at fault, not the consumer who they said didn't maintain the car. "
--end quote--
You did not by any chance miss the current employee pricing scheme thing now did ya?
And the continuation of the same for an extra month. And the lowering of prices on next year models. All this adds up to poor resale later on. As for the Cobalt, Intellichoice.com rates the basic 4 dr. as average resale, and all the 2 dr. as worse than average. The above base models all rate worse than average, which is about right. It kinda makes sense in that the more basic, base models are pretty low priced to begin with and offer up a car with a pretty good engine for fuel efficiency and power.
As for Toyota, I have had no problems with the services offered from Toyota dealerships. That said, I did NOT have a major problem. Like I said before, they are all your friends until something major happens to the car. When the worse happens, is when you will find out just how far a company and a dealership is on your side. Keep in mind now, Toyota never had an oil sledge problem, but rather an oil sludge problem. Just to keep the records straight Oil sledge problems happen mainly during NASCAR events - just kidding!
Who really does have the worst record for covering repairs on autos? Is there an accurate way to gauge this? I take it JD Powers surveys people. A common villain, if gauged by posts on Edmund's may point to VW, but is this accurate? What if some people, or group of people are just more active on message boards? How would you rate GM? I have a feeling they are not the worse of the bunch. But what does a feeling count up as - nothing. Data from C.R. would indicated better cars since 2001 - So I will believe that to be pretty much a fact.
Loren
But last week I spent five days in Pittsburgh -- and gauging by that city's history and the thousands of cars I saw during my trip, Pittsburgh is a very "buy American" place. And my friends, I've never seen so many Cobalts in all my life! They really are popular there, and I think I got to see every color, body style and option available. I actually got to liking them! I think GM has a winner here -- especially with the pricing thing.
Meade
Meade
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050815/ts_afp/usautoasiagm_050815172537
I think these days, it has more to do with demographics and how you were raised than patriotism. My area of Virginia has seen a lot of influx of people from all areas of the world, especially Asia and Mexico. Pittsburgh, whose newspaper had an article on that city being the least racially diverse of any large American city last Thursday -- I read it while I was there ...
http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/pittsburgh/s_362447.html
... is home to many descendants of steel workers who've been there for generations -- and their parents and grandparents probably bought American cars, so they do too. Remember, we're all immigrants back at one point or another here in the U.S. My family has been here since the late 1700s, and while my dad has two Buicks in his driveway, there's also a Toyota Highlander!
To make a point out of all this, let me say that to many of today's Americans, I don't think the location of a car brand's home office is the selling point. And neither is the place it's built -- unless they live in the city where the plant's located and take pride in that fact. I think most people just want a reliable car they can afford, with a decent warranty. Maybe that's why many of us here at work were only mildly shocked when our 60-something Operations Manager went out looking for a car to replace his upteenth Chrysler product and came back to work the next day with a brand-new Hyundai Santa Fe, has since talked his daughter into buying one, and is still raving about it two years later!
In any case, the Cobalt, which like many (but not all) of GM's products, is built right here in the U.S. -- is a very nice car. It's good to see Honda and Toyota squirming a little. Those laurels they've been resting on must be getting a little uncomfortable.
Meade
I'm certainly not saying people have to buy domestic everything but I think the way things are going, much of the durable good manufactuing in the U.S. is slowly going to die off.
At any rate, Cobalt is a great car, we agree on that. Maybe not the best, but certainly competitive.
The discussion about the choice and impact of foreign vs. domestic does not belong here.
Ford's Dell computer giveaway was very successful because instead of the $2000 rebate, they were giving away a $250 laptop that probably cost them $100. People were so stupid/naive thinking it was a good buy when it wasn't. Give me a $2000 rebate and I will by my own computer with a lot left over.
So far no price is sticking with any of the GM line I can think of off hand, unless people pay retail sticker on Corvettes. Discounting and deeper discounting to continue. Poor resale to continue. Average resale is possible on some basic models, like the Cobalt.
Above average to excellent resale, like a Civic -- hard to believe it will happen.
Ford was offering a Dell computer and $2000, or maybe it was $2,500 off on the Focus here in CA. You got both in the deal. Focus looks well put together. I know, it was not a graceful first couple of years for the new model. Does anyone believe a first year model of Cobalt will not have any strange quirks?
Loren
Really there is little difference in resale to speak of when compared to a Japanese model when you consider the rebates coming off the msrp. Again a $20,000 car is selling for around $17,000 with a rebate. A car that normally would sell for $15,000 after a couple years is now going for $12-13,000 because of that rebate. So if you plan to sell or trade in that car in a short-term, you will lose more money. Remember most of the loss of a new car comes in the first couple of years. My S10 p/u has comparable resale to a similar Toyota. Maybe because Chevy's last longer?
The employee discount is making big money for those companies participating. They are getting rid of the older models, and making much more money per sale overall. As you mentioned there still are some rebates left for certain models, but that is much smaller, and people believe that that is as low as the car price will go. I have read that some dealers will not budge lower than the given price. Give me the full rebate of the past, and let me bargain with the car salesman any day. I guarantee I will get a better price than the employee discount.
As for the Ford Focus, like you mentioned there is still a rebate along with that cheap $250 computer ($100 for dealer). That is a savings of $900 from the previous rebate of $3000 per focus.
Loren
Loren
Yesterday I was in Dominick's and saw the Cobalt SS vs Acura RSX test. I didn't read the whole thing, but when all was said and done the Cobalt edged the Acura and was declared the winner.
I would image now that the Honda Civic is getting redone, the Acura is next because that care is nothing to look at and received a lower score in the looks department.
http://www.suntimes.com/drivechicago/reviews.html
Total Car Options:
Cobalt LT Sedan (Note that the LT was the LS in 05)
Manual Transmission
Sport Package
Fog Lamps (No longer in Sport Package for 06)
Pioneer Audio Upgrade
MP3 Stereo
Color - Blue Granite Metallic
I test drove the 05 sedan versions of the cobalt LS, corolla LE, civic LX, and focus SES. My initial impressions of each were as follows:
Cobalt: Quietest ride of the four. Best power out of the four (not by much). ABS standard on the models I wanted. Styling is a personal thing but the Cobalt was my favorite followed by the Civic (Redesigned 06 still fits second on my list). Heavier and good crash test ratings. The gas mileage was only ok. Back seat is a little tough to get in and out of. I'm 6'2" and I don't have to put the seat back all the way. Really like the audio controls on the steering wheel (nice for taller drivers). Hated the plastic over the engine (which I think is there to cut down on noise). There is also a poor design of putting the parking break under the center console (Note: for the 05 LS the documentation says if you get a manual transmission you don't get a center console. I never saw an 05 LS with a manual so I couldn't prove it. My 06 did have a center console with a manual transmission. It is a little difficult to get to and when you pull the brake all the way up the console rests on it. Not a huge deal but I would rather have the console even if it touches the brake). Also I really liked the Driver Information Center on the Cobalt. It has features such as oil life, mpg, miles left in tank, and exterior temp. If I had my ideal setup of the cobalt I would have liked the 16 inch wheels. LT interior except with cloth seats and a manual transmission. As it was I had to get the sport package to get the 16 inch wheels which included a spoiler I didn't really want and the metallic control console which wasn't my favorite either (I'm learning to like these features though).
Corolla: Decent power. Expensive with the options I wanted (Alloy rims for example). No MP3 player offered. I liked that the wood trim was offered with a manual transmission. Great gas mileage. Didn't really like the looks. ABS not standard. Good crash test ratings.
Civic: Underpowered. Great gas mileage. I liked the styling. You had to get the special edition LX to get alloy rims without getting sun roof. ABS not standard. Handling wasn't good compared to the rest.
Focus: Good low end power. Weak top end power. Lowest emissions I believe. Incredible pricing. I almost bought the focus because of the price. Could have drove off with the car for about 12,500 (That was an SES sedan. Top of the line except for STS sports model.) ABS not standard. Bad crash test results. Really poor quality interior such as fake leather around the shifter and parking break. Plastic overhead compartment with a latch made to be broken. Inside door handles with poor leverage. Poorly placed audio controls on steering column (gets in the way of blinker). Vinyl sun visors. If I moved the front seat all the way back I was barely far enough back to drive. One plus was the rear seats fold up so the back can lay down flat. Drives (corners) the best of the four (except for the top end power).
When I was making the decision on what to buy I wasn't in a huge rush. I was driving a 2000 S10 and had drove a 1991 Ford Ranger before that. I wanted to find the best compact car (with a manual transmission) for the fun to drive factor and to get better gas mileage. After almost buying the focus after the test drive based on the price I went back to cobalt and corolla. I steered away from the civic because it was being redesigned for 06 and it really didn't drive all that great (too weak and too much body roll took away from the fun to drive factor). The dealership was also too far away from my house. The corolla not having an MP3 player was a big turn off in addition to I didn't really like the exterior styling. The plastic under the hood of the cobalt, the back seat not having tons of space and the question of whether I would get a center console with an LS and manual transmission were the things going against the cobalt. In the end I don't carry that many people around and I really liked the cobalt styling and quiet ride (with mp3 player) so the cobalt won out. I actually ordered the car from the dealer because I couldn't find an 05 with the options I wanted (they just don't make enough manual transmission models). It was ordered at no obligation to me since the 06s weren't out yet. Once it arrived I test drove it and took a couple days to decide. I was glad to get an 06 though. Hopefully, all the radio and AC issues have been worked out that were mentioned in previous posts about the 05s.
I have about 700 miles thus far on the car. It's been a lot of fun to drive after having 2 small trucks previously. About the only complaints is that it doesn't have as much power as my 4.3 liter S-10 had and the gas mileage isn't good enough to keep up with the rising price of gas. I'm getting ~29 MPG in half city half highway driving which isn't too bad probably with the AC blasting. The cobalt with a stick is rated at 25/34. The thing people keep commenting on when I give rides is how quiet the car is. You really get very little road noise for a car in this class. It's obvious why when you see all the seals on around the doors.
I am looking forward to changing the oil since the cobalt has a built in filter can that you remove the smaller throw away part from the top (not sure exactly how it works yet). I think I'll like it but won't know till I change it.
That's pretty much my experience to this point. I hope it will be of some use to everyone out there trying to pick a small car which I'm sure is a popular market these days with gas prices the way they are.
Let us know of your mileage changes as you put more miles on the car. The 29 average seems correct according to the sticker figures.
Sticker price was $17960 (with destination charge).
My price was $17051.55 - $500 rebate + $971.54 tax/tag/title/doc fee
My Total 17523.09
Invoice was 16176.60 + 590 destination charge - 500 rebate = 16266.6.
I figure I paid ~ 300 markup + 398 doc fee (which I consider basically markup).
I tried to talk the sales rep out of the doc fee without any luck. With the focus they waved the doc fee because I was going to get the xplan there before their family plan pricing started. Anyone had any luck getting the doc fee waived with a chevy/gm?
I just bought a Cobalt LS yesterday! I really like this car, I like the 4 door feature on it that is why I didn't go with anything else. I am brand new to the whole customizing your cars gig and I was wondering if anyone could point towards any sites or if you have any advice on where and how to do more to my car. Thanks
I've gotten to the point in my auto buying experience that being able to find a dealer in small towns, or a dealer in a metro area near me, means a lot. I think Toyota has a good dealer network, but it is hard to beat Ford and GM for the sheer number of places to take your car in for service.
There are going to be a LOT of Cobalts on the road in the years ahead, many more than tC's, and that just helps a lot with parts, aftermarket stuff, service, etc.
I'm not knocking the tC, it seems like a good choice, but the comparison is a little apples to oranges.
Also, the real biggest difference between them is perception. PPL will percieve the toyo/scion TC as a good choice b/c its a toyota, not minding the fact that chevy is actually better in initial quality than toyota, and its only when factored in with lexus does toyota still have good quality. Also, the quality differences are now just academic. 20 years ago it was a diferent ball game.
The fact is, that if Cobalts were riddled with problems then no one would buy them. Thats why Chrysler is now in foreign hands.
The Cobalt I think has more options than the TC, and is more powerful and with employee disc. is most of the time with a lower price. If you want to buy a TC b/c you think it will last longer or is built better, your buying into perception.
the truth is you can't loose either way, but for my money i'd rather have a nice black cobalt with the 18inch wheels and 205 hp.
It's very difficult for me to take sides on this one, because Toyota and GM are my two favorite automakers. I've owned extremely good and extremely bad GM vehicles in the past. Both of my Toyota Motor Corporation vehicles, one a Toyota and the other a Lexus, have been absolutely bulletproof! I mean ZERO complaints with either of these two cars.
In the end, all automakers do have their fair share of warts and pimples with certain models. And yes, that does include the Lexus marquee that is supposedly the current brand that all others are benchmarked against in quality--whether it be realistic or perceived as others on this forum have stated. My particular Lexus experience leads me to believe that it could be very realistic for many owners, although certain others haven't been so lucky based upon what I have been reading as of late. That's unfortunate for them, because I am sure that they have substantial amounts of money invested in their cars that cost quite a bit more than mine did.
Back to the Cobalt. If the Cobalt's quality reputation turns out to be very good after the sedan has been on the market for three full years, I will definitely consider purchasing one for our next family type car. Even though my last GM experience was a really bad one, I believe that you should never say never in the car world. The car you swear off could potentially be a good one for you if you're willing to give it a chance. Now I would indeed think long and hard about a Cobalt purchase, but it's not totally out of the question at this point in time.
Ron M.
Believe it or not, but I read the the Hyundai Sonata has the best initial quality of any car.
Cobalt is a mostly new car so it's bound to have a few issues. Toyota has had issues with it's new models also. Our firiend has a first year Sienna and it had lots of little problems during the first few months.
In terms of quality, my 2003 Chevrolet Cavalier, at the complete bottom of the food chain, had fewer initial problems than my 2004 Scion xA. This mirrors my experiecne with a 2003 Honda Civic Coupe, which also had more initial problems that my 2004 Dodge Neon, 2002 Dodge Neon, or 2005 Focus. Only the 2000 Focus had more problems than the three Japanese cars I have owned (including the 2005 CR-V which had an alignment problem and now has a front shimmy problem and weak battery).
Yes, I have owned that many cars. I always TRUST the Japanese cars more, and ignore their problems while fearing that any little issue on an American car is sign of doom, but in reality they are all pretty much the same, at least in the up to 15,000 miles of initial service they usually see under my watch (I'll see if I can change my short ownership cycles for the future!).
Japanese cars are overrated, and American underrated, but this does impact resale and trade in values, unfortunately.
The Cobalt and all USA car may indeed score well compared to all makes around the world these days. Cobalt doing better than the average Japan makes though is a big question mark, I would say. It likely will not be a dog, as things have improved since 2001.
Personal experience is not scientific though and you have to look at the hard numbers. Perception is reality for many people but the reality is, US brands are as good or better in many cases. Cobalt long term should be very durable.
Japanese brand cars have been trying to distinguish themselves from their other native country cars after many years of basic carbon copy vehicles. Now I see the Honda Civic and Toyota TC, Nissan 350Z and Mitsubishi Eclipse, and others going back to the old ways of look alike cars.
Personal experience is not scientific though and you have to look at the hard numbers. Perception is reality for many people but the reality is, US brands are as good or better in many cases. Cobalt long term should be very durable. "
----end quote----
It is important to let outside air in with today's air conditioning systems. If running in the recirculating mode for some time, just switch to allow outside air in, and if possible just fan only for a few minutes before shutting the car down. When they switched to the new refrigerant, some problems seem to have come up in regard to odors. I had a '98 with no problem. Sorry to hear your office gal has this problem. Seems to be in other cars as well. Oh well, that's progress.
As far as personal experience not being scientific, well that is a yes and no. Yes, when bad things happen to your American car happen, and it was only your experience, then I could buy the fact there was evidence to the contrary. But, in this case I was not alone, and so many others had problems it shows up big time if you were to look at any Consumer Reports of the 1990's up to say 2001. You will find the problems I had with the certain models of cars, others reported the same areas of defects. The US makes are doing better. Better since 2001 -- how they will be in say the fourth, fifth, or seventh year, who knows. If people are having as good, if not better luck with GM cars, why are they not buying them? Maybe they are old and tired looking? The company image is old and tired? If the babyboomers got burned on GM cars, the youth prefer Japan makes, what's left? If the CTS looks like it is good long term, I would possibly consider one. Looks like the 2003 & 04 Corvettes were reliable. Maybe something to consider. The new G6 Coupe looks good in picks. Who knows, there are a few GM cars which are not too plain or boring. I don't want numb electric assist steering from GM. That I know.
Loren
I think the G6 GTP's have hydraulic systems but i could be wrong. I could not find any data on the pontiac site.
I believe the G6 shares the same platform as the Malibu. The Malibu's electric power steering is fantastic from my driving experiences with it.
This could also help explain the slightly poor fuel economy on the GTP's.
I still can't believe the cobalt scored so low in Edmunds comparo. GM should have sent them a better equipped one.
Loren
I do hope they perfect this thing already, many GM cars today could post much higher scores in many comparoes if the steering was better. These cars really are good.
I have links to other tests talking about there liking to the electric steering, but unfortunately today after 15 minutes in my favorites, I was unable to locate them in my over 100 favorites, but they do exist.
I am sure it is not the most responsive to hard sport car like driving, but overall, it is a great system.
Do you smell a vast conspiracy???? I don't